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pumper
09-12-2007, 07:15 PM
This new material seems to be great and the multiple output passes as shown in the docs would be nice to use. Has anyone used this successfully and if so can you please post a quick outline on how to use it. A user in another thread mentioned that you can use it along with ctrl_buffers buffer write, but what is the pocess of doing that and is there some native maya alternative to this?

Thank you

may99
09-12-2007, 08:24 PM
yeah im trying to figure out the same thing

JulianS
09-12-2007, 10:47 PM
what do u mean by "X" are you refering to mia_material ?

You talking about maya 2008 i forgot about the _X material.

did you got your copy of maya 2008 already? =\ where is my copy?

may99
09-13-2007, 12:35 AM
bump//// bump//// bump////

digones
09-13-2007, 05:22 AM
I've been trying to use this new feature with no success... the closest thing I could get was some output passes that render well, with the correct filenames, but the generated images are no diferent than the beauty pass... (i.e. xxx.iff (beauty), xxx_diffuse_raw.iff, etc.)

I also tried to enable the user framebuffer, the images render with the correct filename again, but this time all black.

There's an obvious lack of documentation, since the help system just throws some features and don't say much about them.



cheers

may99
09-14-2007, 07:49 AM
bump bump bump

jooji
09-15-2007, 03:00 PM
I have been trying to get the passes out of the mia-x material myself. At first i thought that there might be a built in frame buffer store in the material but that doesnt seems to be the case ....apparently maya 2008 has a frame buffer create and frame buffer write but no frame buffer store, HelllooOooOOoOo Autodesk ...thanks but no thanksssss...no wonder all the passes from mia are coming out as black ....cause there is no BUFFER STORE ...anywayz the work around for this is to use ctrl buffer store and pass it onto the maya user buffers to write. everything just seems to work okay ..following are the output pass of the current mia-x
Beauty diffuse_level
diffuse_raw
indirect_raw
ao_raw
spec_level
spec_raw
refl_level
refl_raw
refr_level
refr_raw
tran_level
tran_raw
add_result
diffuse_result
indirect_result
spec_result
refl_result
refr_result
tran_result

Hope this helps

ACamacho
09-17-2007, 11:54 AM
I have been tinkering around with this and I am using buffer_store to store the outputs of mia_x. I've gotten it to output the images fine, except that all of the buffers seem to have clipped images. They save out in float (EXR), but they have the ranges clipped before its saved. :sad: I have float buffers for all, and float for the primary buffer.

I am also using the framebuffer editor and output editor that's new (or now exposed) in 2008.

Eshta
09-18-2007, 06:11 PM
sorry, but I don't know if you can output from mia_X in Maya (by default) , it seems that was written for MAX
so Jooji, did you use outpu t frame buffers
as in assign in tothe camera then choose the buffer of your chooise?
cause the docs are talkign about
many other passes than th one i see in the fram buffer

posmaker
09-18-2007, 08:18 PM
I have been trying for a while to setup the mia material to be outputed through the frame buffer/buffer store without success :( I´m not an expert on mental ray so I´d really appreciate if someone could take sometime to write a few lines about the workflow and connections needed in this regard.

Not only me but I guess a lot more people out there will really appreciate that help.

Many thanks in advance.

Edu

Ash-Man
09-18-2007, 09:48 PM
as for the frambuffers

the way to do it is as follows
selct the camera > then under metnal ray section
optionsSecondary output pass > hit create
Then from the pull down menu >> choose for example > motion
Check file mode and give it a name and file type
Now when you render , you will get this extras file/files for the passes of your choice
Now I idnt do any tests with mia_x , so Im not sure of this will work
But the open EXR sounds like a good answer ..but you need a composter that can open and the EXR and separate these passes ( I think)

sixbysixx
09-18-2007, 11:10 PM
Cheers Ash Man, gonna give taht a go tomorrow.


But the open EXR sounds like a good answer ..but you need a composter that can open and the EXR and separate these passes ( I think)


Now do I understand this right: one openEXR can contain all these passes as separate channels or something like that?
Photoshop can't read them all, no?
What software could I use to open these exr files (HiRes stills in my case) and split them up into separate float images?

posmaker
09-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Thanks a lot for the help Ash-man. I´ll give it a try as soon as I get my maya 2008.

Sixbysixx. You are right, EXR format can store not just color and alpha information but many other channels so you would be able to use those "extra" channel to store your passes.
You can edit floating exr with Digital Fusion and Shake and probably in most of the compositing softwares out there.
Actually I would really like to hear more about this workflow, mia material/EXR and how do you guys pipe the mia output>buffer store>maya buffers :(

Thanks in advance

danylyon
10-04-2007, 05:09 PM
No matter what I tried, I haven't gotten this to work. Can somebody shed some more light into this?

What I did, I created a (ctrl) Buffer_Store, checked the first couple of framebuffers. (I hope that's where Mia X puts in?)
Tried to connect buffer_store to a mental ray user Buffer (from maya 2008)... and created a secondary Output Pass in the Rendercamera, where I choosed my mental ray user Buffer... that's the most logical way I came up with.. but it outputs black. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

thematt
10-04-2007, 08:12 PM
I've actually made a thread about that not specially the Mia shaderX and output but also any kind of output with framebuffer.
If somebody can share some light on how to use framebuffer correctly in maya2008 it would really help a lot of people, the doc is so vague it's even funny.
I'm going to rent a bit because I'm so sick of alias attitude toward normal user of maya, but I don't understand why they need to make thing so complicated all the time..Damn Max as a passe output to .EXR that is simple as hell to use, so has renderman for maya, why can't somebody in autodesk working on maya and mental ray integration finally understand that all of the users are not genious with strange behavior and that we want simplicity in usage of simple thing such as pass in the render.// end of rent

Ps: big thanks to zap and over guys on this forum to always try to explain how to use mental ray in maya corectly, I just hope that finally someday the mental ray for maya doc will be up to there standart.

cheers

achoury
10-04-2007, 09:15 PM
I've actually made a thread about that not specially the Mia shaderX and output but also any kind of output with framebuffer.
If somebody can share some light on how to use framebuffer correctly in maya2008 it would really help a lot of people, the doc is so vague it's even funny.
I'm going to rent a bit because I'm so sick of alias attitude toward normal user of maya, but I don't understand why they need to make thing so complicated all the time..Damn Max as a passe output to .EXR that is simple as hell to use, so has renderman for maya, why can't somebody in autodesk working on maya and mental ray integration finally understand that all of the users are not genious with strange behavior and that we want simplicity in usage of simple thing such as pass in the render.// end of rent

Ps: big thanks to zap and over guys on this forum to always try to explain how to use mental ray in maya corectly, I just hope that finally someday the mental ray for maya doc will be up to there standart.

cheers

hi
look here there for passes in Mentalray
http://www.render3d.de/cgi/render3d.pl?name=techniques_passes_mr&state=on
rachid

thematt
10-04-2007, 09:47 PM
thanks for link, good info in it..still it's funny to read that even with that new fonction in maya 2008 you still need an extra shader not available directly in maya to output your passes correctly..I think they will never understand what user really need :shrug:.
But thanks a lot though.

achoury
10-04-2007, 10:20 PM
thanks for link, good info in it..still it's funny to read that even with that new fonction in maya 2008 you still need an extra shader not available directly in maya to output your passes correctly..I think they will never understand what user really need :shrug:.
But thanks a lot though.

hi
i think Mental ray is intended to the programmers and to the technicians, not for the artist, so the user have to write his own shader!!! thats mean you must be good in C and C++
maths, and you must have good knowledge in physic too Grrrrrrrr!
rachid

djx
10-05-2007, 03:29 AM
Thanks for that link rachid (and big thanks Haggi Flöser from render3D for making it look easy).

Haggi warns that the simplePasses shader is.. um.. simple :) But it demonstrates how the process works.

I found that I got wierd things happening if I used a few copies of the simplePasses shader in the same scene. So I tried the ctrl.buffers "buffer_store" shader (not the "buffer_write") and that worked really well. The only confusion I had was that the buffer_store fb.number 0 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer1, fb.number 1 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer2 and so on.

edit:
ACamacho, I didnt see your earlier post until just now.
I've gotten the same results as you did. So, did you ever work out how to get the unclipped 32 bit floats in the user buffers?


-- David

ACamacho
10-05-2007, 01:22 PM
Unfortunately no. :/ I can get a float image with the range kept in, if I save the normal RGBA (the beauty pass). But no luck in getting the passes to save the full range. So for now I am using Mega_TK in 8.5.

Thanks for the link achoury, helps explain things a bit more with 3.6.

danylyon
10-07-2007, 11:14 AM
Same here.. no floating point. Which makes it kinda useless. Oh well.

jooji
10-07-2007, 12:49 PM
ummm everything seems to work fine here ... what kinda clipped ranges are u getting ? can someone post an image ...cause i dont seem to be getting any clipped ranges.

djx
10-07-2007, 01:01 PM
By "clipped" I am meaning that the user buffers output file is a 32 bit float EXR but the luminance ranges only from zero to 1. By comparison in the regular output (also done as 32 bit float) the values range between zero and much greater than 1 (depends on how bright the lights are). You need to load the images into a viewer that correctly displays HDR to see this properly (not the renderview window).

I was also wondering if anyone knows how to tonemap the user buffers (or add other lens shaders)? I could still use the 8 bit output if it was tonemapped, but not if it is just clipped.

-- David

jooji
10-07-2007, 01:19 PM
Definately the ranges are clipped, didnt notice that earlier. I need to dig into this to find some kinda solution or alternative cause the current situation of passes out of mia seems useless without any proper floating range. Will keep you updated as soon as i find a solution.

thematt
10-07-2007, 01:22 PM
To tell you the truth I'm so pissed at autosdesk right now for not giving us a good and simple passes workflow, it's one if not the most important thing in rendering and still we need to have all kinda of workaround to be able to use that corrertly inside maya..I was so hoping this version will get that right, and reading the doc kinda of ginving this feeling, I was so wrong..Don't know who's responsible, mental image or probably autosdesk with their crappy integration whith maya, but When I use final render or Renderman for maya I feel like I'm in a total other world with the simplicity, and that I can finally concentrate on the aspect that matter the most to me..making nice rendering.So wish I could say the same with mental ray inside maya.

cheers

ACamacho
10-07-2007, 01:56 PM
Well the "pass" workflow can be done with render layers...according to one of the reps at Siggraph who kept recommending to use it over single output method. Heh.

I will say that renderman for maya eval is making me giddy more and more. I have time to do other things and not troubleshoot. :)

jooji
10-07-2007, 02:48 PM
okay guys i have some good news and some bad news . The good news is that the mia-x is properly outputing floats. How you can check this is by simply swapping any RAW pass, in my case i swapped refl_raw or in other words feeded it into the primary buffer instead of the output buffers and to my greatest suprise it is actually giving pure raw values with proper floating format with no clippings. SO the bugger seems to be the output passes. I verified my result by using a DGS instead of MIa and it gave me consistant results. YET another 1 MILLIONTH BUG on the autodesk listttt.
Now the beauty beyond comparison is that it doesnt seem to store proper float in EXR, while using maya framebuffers it just clips them for some reason. If you swtich your output to HDR ...suprise suprise its giving you proper float. SO the bad news is that you have to switch your output format to an HDR to get proper RAW format out of mia or any other shader in that regard (this is only intended for user framebuffer, the primary buffer seems to work just fine). This might be a concern for someone who is using a compositing package that doesnt support hdr. I am using nuke and luckly from the previous release it has started to support hdr import.

thematt
10-07-2007, 02:49 PM
Yeah render layer, it's what I used also but there are buggy too..not sure about the 2008 version haven't test it enough just yet.I keep using render layer too they are powerfull nothing compare to XSi though too bad.
Simply sometime I'd like a true render layer such as RFM is giving me, mostly with all the great shader such as Mia_MatX, mental ray inside maya is really a pain for those simple thing too bad.I always take 3dsmax exemple since it's the same company now, but damn in 3dsmax you go into your open Exr format check the passes you need and bam it's done!! you have it inside the open EXR file ready to be comp into your fav package.Is it so complicated to make the same inside maya..I don't think so. But they rather give us that BS workflow fist go to you cam, blabla, in the rendeglobal click there ,install special shader, and hit render check, redo to see if it works, go to Cgtalk and scream for help..
thanks Autodesk that's what I call easy ;).

cheers

jooji
10-07-2007, 03:16 PM
An update on my last post. The only feasible way of getting Raw output out of your userframbuffer is by using HDR format and only HDR. Any other format that you choose just seems to clip the values . I have tested it with iff , exr, tiff, its just down converting them and clipping the values and saving it as an 8 bit image. I hope they fix this up pretty soon. Imagine getting your floats out through hdr only.

achoury
10-07-2007, 11:52 PM
...
I found that I got wierd things happening if I used a few copies of the simplePasses shader in the same scene. So I tried the ctrl.buffers "buffer_store" shader (not the "buffer_write") and that worked really well. The only confusion I had was that the buffer_store fb.number 0 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer1, fb.number 1 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer2 and so on.
-- David

hi david
i cant' get it work with "buffer_store"
my setup is like this:
mia_maetrial_x1.result ==>buffer_store1.primarybuffer
mia_maetrial_x1.diffuse_result ==>buffer_store1.inbuffer_1
mia_maetrial_x1.opacity_result ==>buffer_store1.inbuffer_2
mia_maetrial_x1.refl_result ==>buffer_store1.inbuffer_3
mia_maetrial_x1.spec_result ==>buffer_store1.inbuffer_4
and so on..
when i batch render, all the files are generated, (no error in Outpout Window, or script editor) but only the diffuse is rendered, the others files are black! so what is the problem?
thanks
rachid

djx
10-08-2007, 01:32 AM
achoury: It sounds like you are doing the connections the way I did. I have attached a simple example scene with 3 user buffers. I included the rendered images. Maybe you can see what you missed by looking at it.

jooji: Great to discover that one format works :D thanks for trying them all.

edit: HDR was looking good until I discovered there was no alpha channel. :sad:
I started with rgba(float) 4x32bit, but then tried rgbe(byte) 4x8bit and got the same result - the two renders are identical. I'm probably misunderstanding something about HDR (never used this format before). Can someone fill me in? Is it possible to have an alpha channel in the HDR format?

edit2: Some research into HDR...
Radiance (.hdr) files store colors still in 8 bits per component, but with an additional (shared) 8 bits exponent value, making it 32 bits per pixel. Only RGB can be stored in these files. So no alpha.:sad:

-- David

achoury
10-08-2007, 07:13 AM
achoury: It sounds like you are doing the connections the way I did. I have attached a simple example scene with 3 user buffers. I included the rendered images. Maybe you can see what you missed by looking at it.

jooji: Great to discover that one format works :D thanks for trying them all.

edit: HDR was looking good until I discovered there was no alpha channel. :sad:
I started with rgba(float) 4x32bit, but then tried rgbe(byte) 4x8bit and got the same result - the two renders are identical. I'm probably misunderstanding something about HDR (never used this format before). Can someone fill me in? Is it possible to have an alpha channel in the HDR format?

-- David

hi david
Yes exactly the same connection as you, but there is a problem with the store buffer or with me! i did not understand yet the maner and the order of wich the "buffer_store" records the data, (ie frame buffer0 witch data record?) i've attached a scene that describe this problem, so just render
thanks again
rachid

ctrl.studio
10-08-2007, 11:45 AM
I did not understand yet the maner and the order of wich the "buffer_store" records the data buffer0 is reserved. buffer1 is framebuffer1 and so on. you can manually specify them by simply changing the fb.number in the shader.

max

djx
10-08-2007, 02:17 PM
achoury: I had a look at your scene file. What max just posted is not entirely true (from my experiments) What I am finding is that in the buffer_store attributes when you enter the fb.number then 0 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer1, 1 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer2 and so on.

max: I think this is different to what you said because in maya2008 we are using the miDefaultOptions frame buffer creation and camera based secondary output passes, instead of using the buffer_write geometry shader. Please correct me if I am saying this wrong.

achoury: I also noticed that the mia_material_x.opacity_result gave a black file. I have not used these passes enough to know what it should have looked like, but when I switched the connection to diffuse_result to test the buffer it rendered ok.

-- David

achoury
10-08-2007, 03:36 PM
buffer0 is reserved. buffer1 is framebuffer1 and so on. you can manually specify them by simply changing the fb.number in the shader.

max

thank's for your explanation
so the framebuffer order does not have importance? and witch i connect in first or as a second it is the same thing right?

achoury: I had a look at your scene file. What max just posted is not entirely true (from my experiments) What I am finding is that in the buffer_store attributes when you enter the fb.number then 0 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer1, 1 writes to mentalrayUserBuffer2 and so on.
-- David

yes and and sometimes it render a beauty pass twice


achoury: I also noticed that the mia_material_x.opacity_result gave a black file. I have not used these passes enough to know what it should have looked like, but when I switched the connection to diffuse_result to test the buffer it rendered ok.
-- David
so that was just a test for experimenting the pass

sory for my english
rachid

Ironhalo
10-11-2007, 05:10 PM
i spent most of last night playing with getting frame buffers to work. I got the results i was expecting, but it looks like theres limitations.

my beauty pass didnt quite match the composited pass, it looked like there was problems with the filtering. i was using lanczos, and i guess only box or triangle are compatible.

djx: i used your test scene, thanks for posting it! i noticed you were getting a glow effect, i had to go into the glow shader and turn it off. im guessing this relates to the framebuffer 0 storing glow.

as far as i understand, you cant tonemap the passes if you're doing rgba 8bit. the workaround is to do rgba 32bit, but anything except an hrd clips. hdr cant hold an alpha and most compositing apps dont support hrd sequences.

i havent tested the ctrl_buffer write, but i know theres a tonemapper in there. has anyone got it to work in 2008? im guessing we have to wait for some sort of sp1 release for these limitations to be resolved.

djx
10-12-2007, 12:36 AM
The HDR thing is interesting. Although it is referred to as 32 bits per pixel, the data is actually stored as four 8 bit channels - r,g,b and e, where e (exponent) is shared by each of the other three to give them the high dynamic range. So HDR is working in the userbuffers context only because it doesnt require more than 8 bits per channel.

-- David

1armedScissor
10-12-2007, 04:04 AM
For anyone still having problems with floating point framebuffers being output in the 0-1 range, simply set your primary framebuffer output to be floating point. Once this is done any framebuffer that has been designated as floating point in the options block (rgba_fp, or rgb_fp) will be output as a true floating point image as you're expecting.


cheers

djx
10-12-2007, 04:40 AM
Did you try this in maya 2008?
-- David

Conni
10-20-2007, 05:22 PM
Hi all,
are there any news regarding the issue, that float framebuffers are saved as clipped 8-bit files(openEXR for example)?

I have written a script, that setups the framebuffers at MR-Globals and creates the camera-outputs. It can also insert a simplePasses node in the shader tree behind a selected Mia_Mat_X and connects the outputs of the Mia_Material_X to the pass Node.
It works so far, however, if the clipping issue is not resolved, framebuffers won't be that useful at all :(

Ctrl_buffer and the shaders_P shader pack seem not to work correctly in Maya 2008 anymore.

- Cornelius

Hasnz
10-27-2007, 01:46 PM
is there is 64 bit version of ctrl buffer . This one doesnt seem to work

kjaft
10-29-2007, 10:13 AM
Has anyone yet logged the clipping issue as a bug at autodesk?

Bitter
10-31-2007, 06:11 AM
I have logged it as insider case management and it was "Forwarded to the Dev team."

I feel the love!

Ok not really. But yeah I reported it but more won't hurt. . .it pushes it up the list.

Smacking pushes the lesson in. --Bill Cosby

Robbert
11-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Hi I managed to get working framebuffer passes with this shader: http://www.impresszio.hu/szabolcs/MentalRay/FramebufferWriter/FramebufferWriter.htm
I don't know if there is a 64 bit version on the internet?

The only thing is that if i composite the passes like descripted in the mia material arch help, I get a different result than my beauty. I don't know if this is a gamma correct isue? There is a picture in the attachment.

Puppet|
11-12-2007, 03:05 PM
p_MegaTK shader (shaders_p) or any other shaders that write buffers with geometry shader API (like ctrl.buffers too) will works only in Maya 2008 SP1 (with mental ray 3.6.3.14+) because of bug in mental ray 3.6.1. I suppose same with 3dsmax 2008 too.

Just wait SP1...

Robbert
11-12-2007, 03:25 PM
p_MegaTK shader (shaders_p) or any other shaders that write buffers with geometry shader API (like ctrl.buffers too) will works only in Maya 2008 SP1 (with mental ray 3.6.3.14+) because of bug in mental ray 3.6.1. I suppose same with 3dsmax 2008 too.

Just wait SP1...

Great news :D
I got the composite problem solved, if i composite in fusion than i get a good result, for some reason i use the over node the wrong way in nuke

inguatu
11-13-2007, 05:11 PM
p_MegaTK shader (shaders_p) or any other shaders that write buffers with geometry shader API (like ctrl.buffers too) will works only in Maya 2008 SP1 (with mental ray 3.6.3.14+) because of bug in mental ray 3.6.1. I suppose same with 3dsmax 2008 too.

Just wait SP1...

So if it's not in the platinum area, how did you get ahold of SP1? When is it coming out?

Puppet|
11-13-2007, 05:45 PM
So if it's not in the platinum area, how did you get ahold of SP1? When is it coming out?
It's not SP1 version. Autodesk release patch versions only for Platinum users who have reported about some bugs (that this patch fix). Like Maya2008P03. Such patches usually fix only critical bugs. Other users should wait official SP1 release (with many other not critical fixes too).

inguatu
11-13-2007, 05:51 PM
It's not SP1 version. Autodesk release patch versions only for Platinum users who have reported about some bugs (that this patch fix). Like Maya2008P03. Such patches usually fix only critical bugs. Other users should wait official SP1 release (with many other not critical fixes too).

I haven't seen anything new on Platinum. Alias' website used to be easier to get into, as a Platinum member, to get to those patches.

Puppet|
11-13-2007, 06:06 PM
I haven't seen anything new on Platinum. Alias' website used to be easier to get into, as a Platinum member, to get to those patches.
Only for users who have reported about some bugs (that this patch fix), but not for all Platinum users.

inguatu
11-13-2007, 06:08 PM
Only for users who have reported about some bugs (that this patch fix), but not for all Platinum users.

eh.. I used to be able to get to the patches with no problem. The integration into Autodesk pretty much sucks now. I have go through 3-4 popups to get to Support now. I'm in Ask Autodesk now asking where it is.

reptil
11-14-2007, 11:40 AM
Great news :D
I got the composite problem solved, if i composite in fusion than i get a good result, for some reason i use the over node the wrong way in nuke


Can u please show your comp with fusion cause i have the same problem here


composite :
http://areptil.free.fr/testing/testn2.jpg

and the beauty :

http://areptil.free.fr/testing/testn1.jpg

Robbert
11-14-2007, 11:52 AM
I only used the default merge node in fusion, Apply Mode: Normal and Operator: Over.
If i use the merge node in Nuke and set it to Plus and turn on sRGB i get a Beauty too.

reptil
11-14-2007, 11:57 AM
:) ok thank for fast reply i use also the over mode with fusion but can't have the same resullt than the beauty! i don't know why , i can 't have an alpha for eache pass perhaps it's the problem !

Robbert
11-14-2007, 02:52 PM
Which passes are you using? i am using a Diffuse, Indirect, Specular, Reflection and Refraction pass... and i get a almost an exact Beauty,,,, (the only difference i see, is the gradient in the speculars, but thats only if you zoom in 5x)

reptil
11-14-2007, 03:31 PM
i use the same pass like you and now i suspecting the mia_exposure because the other frame buffer is not tone mapped i think is working fine without exposure
thank for your help :)

Visor66
11-14-2007, 08:45 PM
important question: Isnt there a way to tonemap all the outputs? Otherwise, how do you tonemap the passes in post?

reptil
11-14-2007, 09:13 PM
there a way with buffer write that come with ctrl buffer and have an tonemapper but its not seem to work with maya 2008!
another way it's perhaps tone mapping in post with artizen but don't know more

Visor66
11-14-2007, 10:11 PM
another question: where is the option to contrast all buffers?

reptil
11-17-2007, 07:45 PM
i get the same result than the beauty with a pseudo tone in fusion just with a brightnessContrast node

Z.O.V
06-20-2008, 02:46 AM
No one reply since Nov last year. Is that mean everyone knows how to output multipasses of mia_material_x in maya2008 ?
I were playing with ctrl_buffers__v2.0_SP2 all night. Still can't output any passes.
Could someone give me a scene to show me how it works?

caseybasichis
07-09-2008, 08:46 PM
SECOND to the notion.

I was up till 6 this morning trying to get it to work... I dont mind if its a bit awkward but I cant to conjure up anything that isn't a nice big fat black frame.

Bitter
07-09-2008, 09:10 PM
I can't tell you about the ctrl shaders. I have been beta testing shaders from MI. Take a look at the ctrl buffers section on how the shader is set-up. The connections from the mia_x are made instead of individual shaders.

Ironhalo
07-09-2008, 10:23 PM
I can't tell you about the ctrl shaders. I have been beta testing shaders from MI. Take a look at the ctrl buffers section on how the shader is set-up. The connections from the mia_x are made instead of individual shaders.

beta testing frame buffer shaders from mental images? tell me more.....

JulianS
07-09-2008, 10:33 PM
just going over it really quick


you need a buffer store ( ctrl_buffer)
Define the framebuffers in the miDefaultOptions and set the data type it can also be acces via render gloabals "primary framebuffer"
Define the framebuffers in the render camera "create" and set the prefix to buffer connection " diffuse" as well use user buffer and set it to your pre-difine buffer.
and render.
I willl be making a small movie to illustrate the process and I will be publish it at mymentalray.com (http://www.mymentalray.com) in the video section. (http://mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&ClassId=3)

JulianS
07-09-2008, 10:36 PM
also be aware you need to do this for every shader/material, I dont think there is a way to do it gloabally so if you have 10 materails on the scene and you want to uotput 4 passes from each you need to define your buffer 40 times in the renderglobals and 40 in the camera

10 materials = 4 passes = 80 framebuffer definitions

so for every mentalrayOutputPass there should be a mentalrayUserBuffer

If i am wrong about this please let me know because I would love to be wrong. I am acctually hoping i am wrong =P

Ironhalo
07-09-2008, 10:57 PM
also be aware you need to do this for every shader/material, I dont think there is a way to do it gloabally so if you have 10 materails on the scene and you want to uotput 4 passes from each you need to define your buffer 40 times in the renderglobals and 40 in the camera

10 materials = 4 passes = 80 framebuffer definitions

so for every mentalrayOutputPass there should be a mentalrayUserBuffer

If i am wrong about this please let me know because I would love to be wrong. I am acctually hoping i am wrong =P

thast how its done. i made a mel script that automates the framebuffer creation and connections. makes the whole process much less painful. here's a link:

http://www.highend3d.com/f/5298.html

Bitter
07-10-2008, 01:36 AM
The beta shaders haven't been re-written for 3.6 yet. The mechanism changed as well in 2008.

Similar workflow except you omit a step with the geo shader in 2008.

In reality it should be integrated into Maya where it's an option, a la Renderman, XSI, etc. This is the current direction Autodesk is taking it. (We've already discussed how annoying it is that it's not done yet, ad nauseum, no need to rehash). But for now this is it.

JulianS
07-10-2008, 03:54 AM
This is a nice script, i just finish playing with and it works great i like the presets very cool, just one thing, Irinhalo... nevermind great job on that tool.

thast how its done. i made a mel script that automates the framebuffer creation and connections. makes the whole process much less painful. here's a link:

http://www.highend3d.com/f/5298.html

JulianS
07-10-2008, 09:16 AM
http://www.mymentalray.com/framebuffersvideo.jpg (http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=94)

Hello so here is the video of how to use frame buffers.
Huge thaxxx to Paul (Ironhalo) his script made it a lot easier.

Enjoy Click here for video tutorial (http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=94)

sevver
07-10-2008, 11:20 AM
Thx for great video tutorial man :)
but how works this tutorial for linux ? beacuse I search ctrl_buffer for linux 64 and I dont find any buffer store for linux and linux 64 , anybody know where I find this plugin for linux 64 and 32 ?

JulianS
07-10-2008, 05:09 PM
but you dont have to use ctrl_buffer the only reason why i used it is because Iranhalo script, it speed the process a lot, but you can use any buffer store an just coonect it manually . if you go to mymentalray.com you can find few options i would recommed the one by Horvátth Szabolcs

Thx for great video tutorial man :)
but how works this tutorial for linux ? beacuse I search ctrl_buffer for linux 64 and I dont find any buffer store for linux and linux 64 , anybody know where I find this plugin for linux 64 and 32 ?

SirRender
07-11-2008, 01:35 AM
Thank you very much for putting that video tut together JulianS. I'm going to try it soon.

jasonhuang1115
07-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Thanks Julian for the video tutorial. I watched that yesterday and haven't got a chance to experiment just yet.

I am curious how much the script is helping on speeding up the whole process when you have a lot of materials in the scene? I saw in the video, for 4 passes, you still need to create 8 definitions when having 1 material in the scene (meaning 20 materials = 160 definitions?). So, is the script only helping us on naming of those passes?

Thanks.

but you dont have to use ctrl_buffer the only reason why i used it is because Iranhalo script, it speed the process a lot, but you can use any buffer store an just coonect it manually . if you go to mymentalray.com you can find few options i would recommed the one by Horvátth Szabolcs

JulianS
07-12-2008, 09:21 PM
not really the formula will be more like

#(number) buffer_store = 1 mentalrayUserBuffer = 1 mentalrayOutputPass

so that mean u can have:

10 buffer_store = 1 mentalrayUserBuffer = 1mentalrayOutputPass

you can have multyple materials sharing the same buffer number
So to answear your question the script is saving you about 50% since is doing all the connections for you unless, you want to divide the buffers between different materials, then you have to do that by hand.

you can also exclude multyple outputs for different buffers stores in order to include or exclute outputs from a buffer.

I will be making more movies a bit more advance everytime so stay tune.



Thanks Julian for the video tutorial. I watched that yesterday and haven't got a chance to experiment just yet.

I am curious how much the script is helping on speeding up the whole process when you have a lot of materials in the scene? I saw in the video, for 4 passes, you still need to create 8 definitions when having 1 material in the scene (meaning 20 materials = 160 definitions?). So, is the script only helping us on naming of those passes?

Thanks.

jasonhuang1115
07-12-2008, 10:40 PM
Thanks so much Julian. Your explanation makes the usage of this script a lot clearer. REALLY LOOKING FORWARD to your advance movie regarding framebuffer outputs. I believe it is a highly-anticipated topic to lots of Maya users.
not really the formula will be more like

#(number) buffer_store = 1 mentalrayUserBuffer = 1 mentalrayOutputPass

so that mean u can have:

10 buffer_store = 1 mentalrayUserBuffer = 1mentalrayOutputPass

you can have multyple materials sharing the same buffer number
So to answear your question the script is saving you about 50% since is doing all the connections for you unless, you want to divide the buffers between different materials, then you have to do that by hand.

you can also exclude multyple outputs for different buffers stores in order to include or exclute outputs from a buffer.

I will be making more movies a bit more advance everytime so stay tune.

inguatu
07-14-2008, 04:21 PM
the question I have is regarding how MR/Maya knows which framebuffers are for what, initially. I got it working using a siggle Buffer_store. But what about multiple stores?

For instance, if I want 3 separate stores for fore, mid and background objects, how does Maya know what buffer goes where?

Buffer_Store1 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5
Buffer_store2 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5
Buffer_store3 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5

How does MR interpret "buffer.1" in 3 separate store functions?

I guess I'm confused as to how it knows how to connect buffer_store buffers into miDefaultOptions Frame Buffers. Right now for a single Buffer_Store, I'm just using the default mentalRayUserBuffer1 and so on. If I add a second or 3rd Buffer_store, then what?

JulianS
07-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Funny u mention that because i am in the middle of doing a video tutorial that explaints that so stay tune as always i will be publishing at mymentalray.com under the video section.

I will be showing how to use buffers to do passes in multyple objects with different shaders assign to them.

the question I have is regarding how MR/Maya knows which framebuffers are for what, initially. I got it working using a siggle Buffer_store. But what about multiple stores?

For instance, if I want 3 separate stores for fore, mid and background objects, how does Maya know what buffer goes where?

Buffer_Store1 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5
Buffer_store2 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5
Buffer_store3 = buffer.1, buffer.2, buffer.3, buffer.4, buffer.5

How does MR interpret "buffer.1" in 3 separate store functions?

I guess I'm confused as to how it knows how to connect buffer_store buffers into miDefaultOptions Frame Buffers. Right now for a single Buffer_Store, I'm just using the default mentalRayUserBuffer1 and so on. If I add a second or 3rd Buffer_store, then what?

jasonhuang1115
07-14-2008, 05:27 PM
Awesome!! Julian. I'll be checking the video section periodically and please let us know when it's up. :thumbsup:

Funny u mention that because i am in the middle of doing a video tutorial that explaints that so stay tune as always i will be publishing at mymentalray.com under the video section.

I will be showing how to use buffers to do passes in multyple objects with different shaders assign to them.

inguatu
07-14-2008, 05:35 PM
sweeeeet Mental Ray lovin!

JulianS
07-21-2008, 07:04 AM
As I promised I got the new framebuffer video out. ;)
In this new framebuffer 201 video I talk about doing passes with multiple materials

You can find the at mymentalray.com in the video section.

Quick links

mymentalray.com framebuffer 201 part 1
(http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=99)
mymentalray.com framebuffer 201 part 2 (http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=100)


Enjoy
ps: Don't forget to stick around as we get more advance every week.

inguatu
07-21-2008, 12:44 PM
you are a god.. thanks!

redbranch1
07-21-2008, 01:57 PM
Thanks again Julian!

Your first video made this so easy to understand, I had toyed with it before, but I rarely have the time to sit down and brute force my way through figuring something out, so I had let it lie.

I do have a question though, can you use the passes with physical sun & sky, and mia_exposure_photographic? I tried, and got some seriously wacked results

jasonhuang1115
07-21-2008, 08:48 PM
Thank, Julian. You ROCK!

I just watched the videos and noticed that you didn't use Paul's script this time. I am going to try the setup with Paul's script and multiple shaders/objects and see how much more efficient it will be.

As I promised I got the new framebuffer video out. ;)
In this new framebuffer 201 video I talk about doing passes with multiple materials

You can find the at mymentalray.com in the video section.

Quick links

mymentalray.com framebuffer 201 part 1
(http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=99)
mymentalray.com framebuffer 201 part 2 (http://www.mymentalray.com/index.php?option=com_shaders&Itemid=127&Action=DisplayDetail&ObjectId=100)


Enjoy
ps: Don't forget to stick around as we get more advance every week.

jasonhuang1115
07-21-2008, 09:40 PM
Julian,

Have you successfully output multichannel EXR via ctrl.buffer using the way you demo in those videos? If yes, what kind of post application you use to load? Nuke, Shake, or Fusion?

Thank.

JulianS
07-21-2008, 09:52 PM
multichannel EXR are a bit tricky but i figure we start easy and go from there, As for the fact i didn't use pauls mel is just because this time I wanted to keep as native to mental ray as possible, but in the future we will need to use a lot more of fancy tools to make other things work.

Julina,

Have you successfully output multichannel EXR via ctrl.buffer using the way you demo in those videos? If yes, what kind of post application you use to load? Nuke, Shake, or Fusion?

Thank.

caseybasichis
08-03-2008, 09:54 PM
These video's are great. You are a life saver.

Its amazing how many needlessly redundant steps there are though, especially with all of the manual naming. It would be nice if it just pulled the name from the mia output. Then again there are alot of things about this that would be nice.

Here's hoping 2009 will simplify this process.

I'm looking forward to a multichannel exr tutorial, if one is in the works.

achoury
08-04-2008, 09:05 AM
These video's are great. You are a life saver.
Its amazing how many needlessly redundant steps there are though, especially with all of the manual naming. It would be nice if it just pulled the name from the mia output. Then again there are alot of things about this that would be nice.
Here's hoping 2009 will simplify this process.
I'm looking forward to a multichannel exr tutorial, if one is in the works.

hi
The problem with multichannel exr is you get all channel flipped ABGR rather than RGBA !
take a look at the attached file, remove the .zip extention
/Rachid

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