lack of rigging tuts

[aurora]

I've found a few that cover the basic rigging up to the final layout of the bones/skelegons. Then they stop.. What I would like to see is more on, weighting, IK setup, expression setting and all the other cool things you can do.

[policarpo]

a worthy investment.
animate with this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556229011/qid=1049400586/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-4498012-2723014?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) :thumbsup:

i think the reason for the lack of these type of tutorials is that it takes a lot of R&D on the part of the artist, and once they've figured it out they are so busy animating that tutorials are the last things on their minds. i was recently at a 3D user group meeting where this ex ILM animator gave us a demo on a simple walk cycle...that alone took 30 minutes...it was way cool!

just my 2 cents USD. :beer:

[vapulus]

I know there's a few things out there, and I'm not saying *I* need these tutorails. My rigs are decent enough. I'm just saying for all the new people. A lot of them won't be willing to pay money for a book if they're just trying out lightwave. Some people (me included) hate working from a book, anyway. =D I'd rather have a video tut or something I can flip back and forth from. =)

Just a comment. I'm not asking for anything specifically. I just keep seeing some of the better riggers around here say things like "i'll be making a tutorial on how I did this" and then nothing happens. =D

The more stuff out there, the more our community will grow. Especially since LW isn't exactly KNOWN for animation. It can do it when the best of 'em, there's just a slower learning curve for a lot of people.

[vapulus]

On a side note, policarpo, is there ever a time of day when you are NOT logged onto these boards? =D
You're always one of the first few people to respond to a thread. =D
hehe

[policarpo]

true true...

it just takes time to do tutorials. i'm guilty for saying i'd do a tutorial on this or that only to look back 3 months later with nothing showing from me.

maybe you should try your hand at filling this void on rigging...anything is better than nothing ya know. :)

[policarpo]

Originally posted by vapulus
On a side note, policarpo, is there ever a time of day when you are NOT logged onto these boards? =D
You're always one of the first few people to respond to a thread. =D
hehe

hehehe...i am addicted. :drool:

[vapulus]

Not all addictions are bad. =D

I'd make an IK tutorial or something, but I'm afraid my stuff isn't always exactly done in an "acceptable" manner. So many pieces of a finished project of mine will be hacked together and band-aided that I'd rather not anybody try to reproduce it. =D

If I felt confident enough that my rigs and setups were acceptable for the masses, which they are not, I would definitely do one. =P

Mike's leg rig is fantastic, and definitely one of the better done tuts on the subject. His rig isn't that difficult to pull of and gives you a great deal of control. The thing is, his rig was put together in a very "industry trusted" manner. =)

Mine would have a random piece here or there that got the effect I wanted, but I couldn't tell you why. =D
I'm not exactly a wealth of knowledge on the subject. I'm an animator and get my rigs done...I just never get them done WELL. =D

[samartin]

I have tried numerous times getting into rigging, and cos' I haven't really done well I get seriously hacked off with it... I also hate wroking from tut's especially the internet kind as I don't have a printer at home, to be honest I hate reading so when EvilPlan release them DVD's I'm gonna have to grab a copy and then buy a DVD drive aswell...

I'm sure it'll be well worth it, seeing someone in motion is sooo much better than paper... Even watching that soldier rig done with ACS4 blew my mind, but I don't wanna buy that I wanna know how to rig in a decent manner before I think about anything like that...

[takkun]

Hey samartin, those evil plan DVD's are going to be released tomorrow! http://www.desktopimages.com/CharSeries.shtml You should get them now while they still have the preorder discount. I'm debating if I should get the whole set or just the rigging and animating DVD's. Hmmm.

[samartin]

Thanks for the heads up there, I just checked 'em out but there shipping page doesn't seem to work !?!?!?

I think I'll wait a while anyways, only save 10 bucks plus I need to save a bit o' cash for a DVD payer for my PC as my proper DVD player is region2 only...

If you've gone ahead and purchased can you let us know how you get on, I'm assuming your quite new to rigging too...

[takkun]

Yeah, rigging scares me. I just purchased the whole set and I'll post a review here when I get a chance to watch them all.

[SplineGod]

The problem is that there are no really in depth FREE rigging tutorials out there. As polycarpo put it, theres a lot of R&D that goes into Rigging. I hear things like rigging is easy in program xyz because all you have to do is click on the shoulder and wrist and bang its done. Im sorry but there is far more to rigging then that. I can set up IK in Lightwave that quickly as well. The problem is that you cant do much useful with it. Rigging is not easy in any package. How things are rigged changes with each character and many times what that character just do.
Its also one thing to read a tutorial or video and try it and another to try it and have someone look at it and show you whats wrong. Thats the advantage of my Professional Character Series, you dont just buy the CDs and watch them but you have 3 month of online support where you can ask questions and have your rigs reviewed and pointers given. JUST the rigging portion of my course is a good 12 hours and I cover a TON of material.
You can take a look at: http://www.splinegod.com/professionalcharacterseries.html

[CIM]

Rigging in LW is not exactly as easy and straight forward as rigging in XSI or Maya (click shoulder, click wrist, arm IK is done),

Actually, you can do that in LW with my Fast IK script.

[vapulus]

All I'm sayin' is it's not as obvious as other packages. As much as I love lightwave, I won't tell people the IK is easy to setup without experience. SG, you're not exactly a beginning waver, and I know those of us with more experience don't have any difficulty with the system, but it's most definitely not as obvious to set up as other packages. I was able to learn maya and XSI's setup rather quickly just by poking around. LW's not quite the same. Just as powerful, but a little less easy to understand how the tools work. IK in particular isn't nearly obvious. There are some strange nuances to LW's IK that doesn't make sense until you do it the wrong way first. =)

[vapulus]

Originally posted by CIM
Actually, you can do that in LW with my Fast IK script.

I used to use that, but I forgot about it when I reinstalled it. I'll have to nab that. Is it on flay? I know you had a few of yours down when 7.5b came out. Your fastIK script is one of the EXTREME few scripts I use.

[SplineGod]

Originally posted by vapulus
All I'm sayin' is it's not as obvious as other packages. As much as I love lightwave, I won't tell people the IK is easy to setup without experience. SG, you're not exactly a beginning waver, and I know those of us with more experience don't have any difficulty with the system, but it's most definitely not as obvious to set up as other packages. I was able to learn maya and XSI's setup rather quickly just by poking around. LW's not quite the same. Just as powerful, but a little less easy to understand how the tools work. IK in particular isn't nearly obvious. There are some strange nuances to LW's IK that doesn't make sense until you do it the wrong way first. =)
Im going to have to disagree. Ive seen many a newbie just sit and stare at Mayas interface and not just Maya but XSI and Max too. Most ppl would have no idea how to setup IK in ANY package wthout some reading and experimentation. Ive seen planty of people on maya forums trying to figure out how to set up simple IK, pole vectors and what not. :)

[froggyplat]

i have a 24 lesson series in rigging in LW (5 hours of instruction using the good 'ol Zombie character) which I'm going to be releasing free to the community. it shows the entire process from start to finish including a few advanced controls and expressions (reverse foot, automated hip placement, sliders, etc.) it's aimed at the beginner but goes way beyond "drawing out the skeleton" and such.

it weighs in at about 180 MB compressed so i'm checking into some alternate hosting options for it. it might be a while before i can make that happen, so i would be willing to put the higher-rez movies on CD (it has a little interface with it) for those who want it. i'm willing to do this provided you:

send me a self-addressed, postage-paid mailer (a cd box or padded envelope of some kind) with a blank cdr.

it's up to you to figure out the postage, but if you do this i will burn it and mail it back to you. email me privately for the address to mail the CD to. Be aware that they are wmv only, so sorry mac users.

you can view a sample temporarily unavailable (right-click save-as) on reverse foot control. it's highly suggested you update your windows media player to the latest version for best playback.:)

[private]

I'm sure Newtek would host 'em, as they have hosted for other people. This will be an excellent resource. Talk about hitting the mark in this thread.

Vapulus comes out and says that there's a rigging hole in LW information and Froggyplat says he's coming through with 5 hours of free video. This is directly link to Leigh's love and fuzzy thread on how she likes the LW community.

Cheers Froggyplat!

[CIM]

I took Fast IK, as well as most of my scripts down, since LW 7.5b broke alot of them. I'm going to add features and improvements one of these days, so I'll up Fast IK 3 when all is ready. :-)

[vapulus]

CIM: WOO! Let us know when you get it back up.

private: yep, gotta' love the LW community. =) That's the only reason I brought all this stuff up. I wanted new people to have more easily available resources. I wanna' see LW get the respect and userbase it deserves.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by froggyplat
Be aware that they are wmv only, so sorry mac users.

Actually, I just downloaded and viewed it with no problems. I'm on OSX 10.2.4 with WMP 7.1.

Thanks for that free vid, froggyplat...very informative! I'll have to give that a try when I get some time. :beer:

[robinson]

Originally posted by froggyplat
i have a 24 lesson series in rigging in LW (5 hours of instruction using the good 'ol Zombie character) which I'm going to be releasing free to the community.

Froggyplat, that sounds good, hope that newtek will host this training material, so the non American users can get it too.
I sure they figure something out, please !!!
:bowdown:

[Mechis]

Hey froggyplat, Is this the same Zombie rig that was released for download a while ago? If it is, I want to say that your rig is AWESOME! I am VERY excited to see your video tutorials. Send 'em over to Newtek!!!!
Thanks again :applause:

[robmaxwell]

Very cool rigging tutorial. Similar to what was on the evil-plan site. They took the tuts off the site? That was the resource where I actually learned how to rig a character in LW. I agree LW rigging is not the most intuitive. Arguably the most important part of the rig is the feet.

Now this rig does work and does a pretty good job. I recently have been using 3DS Max and went through a foot rig that I absolutley love. A lot of scripting though. The rig basically rolls the heel onto the ball of the foot, then onto the toe and back again through one slider. So only one control is needed for all foot rotation! Pivots the rotation in the correct place also so you don't have to go back and add keys to make sure the foot stays on the ground when you rotate the roll.

Is there any information how to do this in Lightwave? BTW, the tutorial in Max was written by Michael Comet ( www.comet-cartoons.com )if anyone wants to see how he did it and translate it into LW. I would do it myself, but scripting isn't my thing (would take too long:) )

If there are any Max users on the thread, you can download his FREE character rigger plugin (VERY USEFUL). Simply place nulls (prenamed and given to you in a blank scene which you can merge with your own character scene)where the joints are in your character, run the plugin, and it puts all the bones, ik, and expressions in the character for you. Does bipeds and quadrapeds.

Not a cheerleader for Max, as it has its faults, its just the more I learn about other packages, the more I see how similar they are. I can actually look at tutorials for LW, and apply them to Max. I am teaching 3DS right now, so I am kinda forced into leaving LW behind a little, but I still like to keep up with all the new stuff in the posts.

[SplineGod]

Originally posted by robmaxwell
Very cool rigging tutorial. Similar to what was on the evil-plan site. They took the tuts off the site? That was the resource where I actually learned how to rig a character in LW. I agree LW rigging is not the most intuitive. Arguably the most important part of the rig is the feet.

Now this rig does work and does a pretty good job. I recently have been using 3DS Max and went through a foot rig that I absolutley love. A lot of scripting though. The rig basically rolls the heel onto the ball of the foot, then onto the toe and back again through one slider. So only one control is needed for all foot rotation! Pivots the rotation in the correct place also so you don't have to go back and add keys to make sure the foot stays on the ground when you rotate the roll.

The foot rigs Ive seen are pretty much the same in most packages with variations for the way each package does things.
LW rigging is no more or less intuitive then any any other app IMO. Most people have trouble because they dont know enough about animating to know what a good rig should be and they dont know the software well enough.
Most people start trying to copy rigs but never go the next step to figure out WHY a person rigged that way.
When you get into scripting youre definately out of the intuitive zone. You could set up a script in LW to get the same kind of control. Ill have to take a look at Mikes setup because Ive never had problems with feet not sticking when I roll a character up onto the ball of the foot.

[robmaxwell]

I never had any problems with the foot staying planted on the ground when rolling onto the ball. Only when continuing the roll from the ball to the the toes(when the ball of the foot starts to come off the ground and the toe stays planted), and then pivoting the entire foot from the toe to continue to roll even further(when the toe starts to straighten back out and the bottom of the foot becomes flat again, all while the toe tip is still planted in the same position). It just makes it so easy to use one control to do it all.

I am not the best rigger out there granted, but I do understand the basic setup, and this Comet thing is a little beyond my basic comprehension. I need to go through the tut one more time. Oh yeah, I am not sure that particular tut is on his site(could be). I do know it does come with Max in the Help files. One of the other things I like about Max, the help menu with all the tutorials only a click away.

[SplineGod]

It sounds like he is dyamically changing the pivot based on a certain range in his slider. Definately doable in lscript and maybe with expressions.

[froggyplat]

Originally posted by Triple G
Actually, I just downloaded and viewed it with no problems. I'm on OSX 10.2.4 with WMP 7.1.

Thanks for that free vid, froggyplat...very informative! I'll have to give that a try when I get some time. :beer:

cool, for some reason i thought the wmv was not viewable on mac but it looks like i was wrong:)

the reverse foot set-up is pretty close to the tutorial todd grimes put out a while ago. however, i did this before i heard about his new dvd series, so please don't think my little tutorials are trying to undercut his. i'm sure his are much higher quality and more professional than mine (i might order them myself!)

it isn't the same rig that kretin released, but it is very similar. actually, i had forgotten about his rig altogether when i started the project. his rig is actually more streamlined than the one i present, but you could easily take the concepts i present and apply them to his (superior) rig.

to everyone who is offering hosting: let me consider it for a day or so while i follow up on my plans first. i'm hoping to create some traffic on my site so ideally i would like to host them myself...if this isn't possible i will definitely take up someone's offer. i'm also having the lessons reviewed by a former instuctor to make sure there aren't too many flubs in the presentation.

[robmaxwell]

I would like to see someone do this with Lightwave and post it for other LWer's. This type of foot roll rig is pretty much a standard setup in Max as I have seen it in at least three different tutorials from three different people. Let's get this kind of cool rig setup in LW too.

If anyone is interested in seeing how it is done in Max, go to:

www.3dtotal.com

Then, go to the tutorials sections and then:

"Character Rigging" by Sergio Muciño

The foot roll part is on page 6(starts at the bottom, and continues on to page 7 and 8).

Also on the same site there is another foot roll setup in the tutorials section:

Bone Rigging by Mike Rickard

[CIM]

Hm, looks like a reverse foot setup. All packages have that. I like Jason Schliefer's the best (for Maya).

[private]

CIM, where did you see Jason Schliefer's setup? Do you have a link or was it on a DVD. If so, which one. Thanks.

[CIM]

Yeah, I have his DVD. If you have Maya, it's a must have!

[private]

Which DVD? What's the title? Always wanting to learn more.

[CIM]

http://store.aliaswavefront.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=487430&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

Unless you are using Maya, I suggest you just buy a rigging/animation video for LightWave.

[private]

Thanks for the link. A friend uses Maya, so maybe she'll spend the dough and I'll see if I can learn from it.

[froggyplat]

lessons 1-9 are now available. go here (http://conceptdesign.ath.cx/froggy) to get them.

the remainder lessons should be up this weekend provided the sparkling new bandwith i bought today doesn't cash out entirely. if so, i'll have an alternative up soon.

enjoy:)

[robinson]

Originally posted by froggyplat
lessons 1-9 are now available. go to http://www.digiwonk.com (you'll need the flash player), then click on to the "learn page" to get them.

the remainder lessons should be up this weekend provided the sparkling new bandwith i bought today doesn't cash out entirely. if so, i'll have an alternative up soon.

enjoy:)

Wow, I own you big time. :beer:
Thanks, I’m downloading !!! :thumbsup:

[Hellbring]

just dling your videos and got ready to get #4 and now i get is 404 :| for all of them :|

if you want me to host some of those files for you I can still do that for you.

[froggyplat]

hang on, let me see if i can figure out what's going on. the files seem to have been placed offline for the moment and i don't know why. i'll get everything back up asap.

sorry for the hassle.:annoyed:

[private]

Rock on froggyplat! No problems downloading on this end. Can't wait until you fill the gap. Cheers!

[froggyplat]

should be fixed now. feel free to PM me if anyone else has problems.

for some reason the files were moved into another folder. i don't know why this happened but i've redirected the links. i've got a message into tech support for my host.

[Mechis]

Froggyplat- THANK YOU. This is truly a great resource!!!! you RULE! :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

[Triple G]

I hate to sound like a pain in the butt, Froggy (believe me, I'm totally grateful to you for posting such in-depth and useful information!), but is there any chance that we could get these in a format other than WMV? The files play fine, but Media Player absolutely blows when it comes to scrubbing. :thumbsdow

[freerider]

Thanks for making those tutorials froggyplant ! Seems like the download crashed your account however. Never underestimate the download crazyness of cg people :) I'm getting an "This account has been suspended" message.

[Hellbring]

freerider: It will probably be fixed in the morning with some new hosting.

Triple G: AS for a different format I agree with you for the scrubbing part it is pretty shitty for that but other then that they work great. I am running dual screens and with the video and Lw open it absolutely kills my machine :( Hopefully my computer just wants a restart.


Also Froggyplat your dog likes to bark alot near the end of #6 :0P

[oxyg3n]

Hello All,

I cant reach the site either, it says "This account has been suspended"

Can anyone tell me what a reverse foot setup is and why it is good?

Thanks

[takkun]

It looks like all the bandwidth is used up. I don't think there's enough bandwidth in the world to appease a stampede of Lightwavers. Maybe you should stagger the release of the videos, maybe one a week.

[froggyplat]

okay, everyone, i'm working with Hellbring to get these uploaded for you so hang on for a bit more. digiwonk has been cashed in a matter hours it appears (not to mention my provider has locked me out completely, lol)...or it may have just been too many connections. guess i did underestimate the power of the LW community. it's quite alright, though.

as far as wmv, yes, i figured some might not be happy about that. i chose that format based on the ease of use (no codec req'd) and the fact that it's highly compressible and still looks good. you could try xn-view (an awesome, free image viewer) which is located at http://www.xnview.com/ . it will play the format and scrubbing works fairly well (no audio scrub, though).

[Triple G]

Originally posted by froggyplat
you could try xn-view (an awesome, free image viewer) which is located at http://www.xnview.com/ . it will play the format and scrubbing works fairly well (no audio scrub, though).

Argh...no Mac version! Oh well....looks like we Mac guys are stuck with Media Player...:hmm:

Well, whatever format they're in, thank you for all your work Froggy! :applause:

[Hellbring]

Well we finally got all the files transfered over to my space so you guys feel free to get the files from me until froggyplat gets his space back up and running.

Get files here (http://conceptdesign.ath.cx/froggy)

I have gone through half of them and they are very usefull to someone that is learning how to rig.

[froggyplat]

yes, a huge thanks to hellbring for being so kind as to help out. make sure you thank him, too! we had a heck of a time just getting the remainder of the files over to him...!


one last thing: please do not mirror the files without PM'ing me first and asking (except for hellbring), and also please do not place them on file sharing programs. the reason for this is that i need to keep track of the distribution as much as possible. these videos are free and will remain as such. there have been cases in the past where people take free training material, put it on CD and sell it for profit. that's what i want to prevent. thanks!

[robinson]

Thanks to you both... :xtreme:

[ricktu]

Downloading now... many thanks Froggyplat and Hellbring.. this is much aprreciated :)

Richard.

[Fasty]

Thankyou very much! :airguitar

[Jonathan]

Actually I completed that ball of foot roll using expressions some time ago. Check it out. I have not updated the site in eons as I've got bigger issues but you'll get the picture.

BallofFoot Roll (http://www.btinternet.com/~jonathan.west3/images/Walktut/walking.htm)

scroll down to the end of it and you'll be at the balloffoot roll section.

There's an extra step I have yet to add which gets the leading foot to stamp down a few milliseconds after the heel makes contact with the floor but I have yet to add it. I'll deal with it later though.

[Hellbring]

anyone that is doing froggyplat's tutorial have the weight map mirror plugin? both are dead links on flay.com

[robinson]

Originally posted by Hellbring
anyone that is doing froggyplat's tutorial have the weight map mirror plugin? both are dead links on flay.com
same problem !!!:annoyed:

[froggyplat]

did you try the link that's in the interface i provided?


later: whoops looks like that site has gone down in the last couple of weeks. the one i demonstrate was faulknermano's script of mirror weights. he is a member here so perhaps he can tell us where the site went....

[oxyg3n]

Hello HellBring,

I have a mirror weight map plugin from flay I got last fall. It might be the same one and works well for me, it is called yo_mirwgt.p.

If you still need it, email me and I'll send it to you.

There is also an lscript from : http://thespread.topcities.com/
But that site seems to be down now.

-edit-

I just realized that this is faulknermano site.

[robinson]

Faulknermano where are you ? The Lightwave community needs you. :wavey:
Please post your weight map mirror plugin somewhere ?
Is it still working with LW 7.5b ? You never know ! :hmm:
Thanks :bounce:

[oxyg3n]

Hey, I also have Faulknermano's plugin is it ok to email to you guys since it was a free dl?

[robinson]

Originally posted by oxyg3n
Hey, I also have Faulknermano's plugin is it ok to email to you guys since it was a free dl?

I don't know ?:D

[Hellbring]

Im up to #13 and all it has been real informative. I have only noticed one messup in my weightmap making. Some how something is deforming one fo the fingers real bad...I think i messed up on nameing of either the bones or that map.

[froggyplat]

Originally posted by oxyg3n
Hey, I also have Faulknermano's plugin is it ok to email to you guys since it was a free dl?

i was wondering the same thing. i think it's safe to distribute the yo_mirrorweights plugin because that link has been down for a very long time. but since faulk is an active member here, it might be better to get his permission first before giving his plugin out. anyone tried PM'ing him?

[robinson]

Originally posted by froggyplat
i was wondering the same thing. i think it's safe to distribute the yo_mirrorweights plugin because that link has been down for a very long time. but since faulk is an active member here, it might be better to get his permission first before giving his plugin out. anyone tried PM'ing him?

I think we should wait, damn ! :curious:
But I have read your “license agreement” too.
Quote “Please do not redistribute the videos on the web or through p2p networks. You may freely distribute to friends or colleagues”
Hey we could pretend that we are all friends and than its maybe ok ??? :insane:
Thanks again… :thumbsup:
Is there any „license agreement“ file with this plugin ? :twisted:

[oxyg3n]

Hey guys!!

When are we all going out for a drink again, I had so much fun last time!

You are all such awesome friends!!!

There, now it looks like we are friends.

I am sending him a pm now.

[robinson]

Originally posted by oxyg3n
Hey guys!!

When are we all going out for a drink again, I had so much fun last time!

You are all such awesome friends!!!

There, now it looks like we are friends.

I am sending him a pm now.
It was awesome last time, can’t even remember the flight to Sacramento and back to Berlin but oh hell it was awesome, I think. :insane:
We shouldn’t do something like this to often the transatlantic flights are just to expensive for me, you know, we always talk about that.
:curious:
I think next time you need to visit me here in Berlin….. :beer:
Hey friend I just thought about a plugin you could send me…….
See you….
:thumbsup:

[faulknermano]

hello,

about distributing my scripts: usually, i dont mind, but do confirm with me first before doing so.

when in doubt, always email me personally, and i get can send a copy myself.

[oxyg3n]

Hello FroggyPlat,

I finished watching your videos the other day and it was nice to see how other people work. I was most interested in the videos containing proxy object and expressions, cause I have never used them before.

I was hoping that you could answer a question for me. I am using the expression to automate the placment of the hips on a character of mine but I want to use the added control of hip center type B. But, I dont understand what all of the requesters are asking me.

I have two questions::

Is the Bias slider the Hip channel?

and

What positions is it asking for under slider min and slider max??

The explanation of this in the expression builder says it is the postion of the left and right feet, but I cant seem to get it to work right. Does it mean their posiotions at the resting pose of my character?

Thanks for your time.

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