kevin3d
04-03-2003, 01:35 PM
Are there any routines/plugins for getting RIB files out of C4D?
View Full Version : Renderman compliant output
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AdamT
04-03-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by kevin3d
Are there any routines/plugins for getting RIB files out of C4D?
I'm afraid not.
Are there any routines/plugins for getting RIB files out of C4D?
I'm afraid not.
JIII
04-03-2003, 05:35 PM
I have heard alot about renderman. it seems to be the best there is for rendering and all that kinda thing. If it is so good why hasnt anyone written an export plugin or something for it.
are there patent issues? what is locking C4d out of this?
are there patent issues? what is locking C4d out of this?
LucentDreams
04-03-2003, 05:47 PM
In most cases its usually done by a third party, case in point maxman and mayaman. I would love to have Rib output capabilities with C4D, but none of the thirdparty deelopers seem interested or would be able to justify it. The client base for such an app is extremely small until more studios are using it fo more production lik work. I mean how many of us here can afford it, or justify paying that much for it. Reason I would like to see it done, is to encourage studios more towards C4D.
Renderman is the best renderer outthere no ifs and or buts, its been used inmore feature films than anyother to date, thats a reputation thats hard to deny.
Renderman is the best renderer outthere no ifs and or buts, its been used inmore feature films than anyother to date, thats a reputation thats hard to deny.
kevin3d
04-03-2003, 05:59 PM
Actually, I would not use a RIB for Renderman(tm) itself, but rather for one of the free RIB compliant renderers, like 3Delight (http://www.3delight.com).
bry
04-03-2003, 05:59 PM
It is possible to make a RIB exporter for C4D, but the hardest thing would be to convert the shaders from C4D to RMAN.
The best chance I see for that would be using Darktree shaders since there is a C4D Symbiont plugin AND there is a RMan Symbiont plugin, whose shaders are compatible.
Otherwise, you could also write your own shaders, but that's another story!
The advantage in Rman is its customization, but for that you need to know how to write in Rman's scripting language, and that doesn't come easy. Maya's Rman integration is very good and advanced now, and it converts all the standard maya materials into rman shaders automatically, but I don't see anything like that coming to C4D soon, and I also don't think it is needed for now.
So, in my opinion, what I would like to have was a simple RIB geometry exporter, so I could play around with Rman compliant free renderers and get the feel of it, but I don't think any C4D user would have any use for a professional RMan solution, at least for now.
bry
The best chance I see for that would be using Darktree shaders since there is a C4D Symbiont plugin AND there is a RMan Symbiont plugin, whose shaders are compatible.
Otherwise, you could also write your own shaders, but that's another story!
The advantage in Rman is its customization, but for that you need to know how to write in Rman's scripting language, and that doesn't come easy. Maya's Rman integration is very good and advanced now, and it converts all the standard maya materials into rman shaders automatically, but I don't see anything like that coming to C4D soon, and I also don't think it is needed for now.
So, in my opinion, what I would like to have was a simple RIB geometry exporter, so I could play around with Rman compliant free renderers and get the feel of it, but I don't think any C4D user would have any use for a professional RMan solution, at least for now.
bry
LucentDreams
04-03-2003, 06:50 PM
actually converting shaders wouldn't be bad at al, the basics of the shaders are quite similar, Paul Everett metnioned this to me when he started working n a shader, most of his research was from renderman shaders.
True I didn't think about Rman compliant renderers, I walway thin k of BMRT and Exluna, but well they are gone. There are still quite a few others out there though. So now all you need to do is convince one many programmers out there to do it.
hehe what would it be called Cineman (like cinnamon)
True I didn't think about Rman compliant renderers, I walway thin k of BMRT and Exluna, but well they are gone. There are still quite a few others out there though. So now all you need to do is convince one many programmers out there to do it.
hehe what would it be called Cineman (like cinnamon)
Gendou
12-21-2003, 04:21 PM
i imagine that most or some of you know about Matt Savard's RIB export plugin. i have started tinkering with it and it has a few missing features but the geometry export is there and he has made a tag plugin that will allow you to name the Rman shader to be used by the PRman compliant renderer. i haven't quite figured out the correct syntax to get the shader transfer working. (i'm using bmrt and 3delight, but only tested on bmrt so far) i have emailed him through the postforum site so i'm not sure if he's gotten it or not but hopefully i'll hear back from him.
at the moment it only exports one frame. i suggested to him some kind of plugin or coffee script that would call the RIB exporter on each frame and just output sequentially numbered RIB files. then using some kind of a batch file to open and run the rib files. the only problem with that is the rib file created by c4d has the filename it will receive written into the code (RIBoutput.tif) so there would have to be some way to batch change that filename to sequential numbers.
http://savards.fuzehost.com/ribexporter/Whatsnew.php
here's the site address for the plugin. he's posted the source code for it...so, PLEASE any c4d plugin developers who can help this happen , lend a hand. i really want to but i'm just beginning to learn coding (starting with coffee).
here's to hoping!
at the moment it only exports one frame. i suggested to him some kind of plugin or coffee script that would call the RIB exporter on each frame and just output sequentially numbered RIB files. then using some kind of a batch file to open and run the rib files. the only problem with that is the rib file created by c4d has the filename it will receive written into the code (RIBoutput.tif) so there would have to be some way to batch change that filename to sequential numbers.
http://savards.fuzehost.com/ribexporter/Whatsnew.php
here's the site address for the plugin. he's posted the source code for it...so, PLEASE any c4d plugin developers who can help this happen , lend a hand. i really want to but i'm just beginning to learn coding (starting with coffee).
here's to hoping!
AdamT
12-21-2003, 04:53 PM
Another thought: there is a Darktree Simbiont for renderman. I wonder if it would be possible to assign darktrees in Cinema and have the plugin translate that info. so it could be picked up by the rman compliant renderer?
stew
12-21-2003, 04:59 PM
There are a number of free RenderMan compliant renderers you can use to try that plugin:
Aqsis (http://aqsis.sourceforge.net)
jrman (http://www.jrman.org)
Pixie (http://pixie.sourceforge.net)
3Delight (http://www.3delight.com)
Aqsis (http://aqsis.sourceforge.net)
jrman (http://www.jrman.org)
Pixie (http://pixie.sourceforge.net)
3Delight (http://www.3delight.com)
JamesMK
12-21-2003, 05:10 PM
3Delight aside there's Aqsis as well - these are both pretty capable and very Rman compatible. oh, stew added more while I was typing...
As pointed out, the true power lies within the customisation - which in turn requires a lot of know-how. But I wouldn't mind the true displacement, true infinite subdivision surfaces and most of all the shading language!
If someone indeed takes a serious shot at it, it had better be a complete and solid solution. There's quite enough of things to wrap your brain around as it is, with RIB and SL, so you wouldn't want to have to worry about export plugin oddities as well.
As pointed out, the true power lies within the customisation - which in turn requires a lot of know-how. But I wouldn't mind the true displacement, true infinite subdivision surfaces and most of all the shading language!
If someone indeed takes a serious shot at it, it had better be a complete and solid solution. There's quite enough of things to wrap your brain around as it is, with RIB and SL, so you wouldn't want to have to worry about export plugin oddities as well.
A.v.K.
12-21-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by kevin3d
Are there any routines/plugins for getting RIB files out of C4D?
Yes there is, but not for actual C4D versions and only for Win PCs as far as I know. I had a look at the sourcode, but get too many errors to make it a one second job to do a Mac compile.
Maybe I take a day off early next year and have another look at it:
http://savards.fuzehost.com/ribexporter/download.htm
Are there any routines/plugins for getting RIB files out of C4D?
Yes there is, but not for actual C4D versions and only for Win PCs as far as I know. I had a look at the sourcode, but get too many errors to make it a one second job to do a Mac compile.
Maybe I take a day off early next year and have another look at it:
http://savards.fuzehost.com/ribexporter/download.htm
Mazer
12-21-2003, 09:39 PM
About the shaders, don't be mistaked, not even Mtor, from Pixar converts Maya shaders, you make them separately in a program named slim, the materials don't even show on the viewport...
I know Mayaman as some sort of material convertion, but I doubth it works that great, aniway the power of renderman comes from wrighting custom shaders, eyther by hand or using an external app (there was one I cant remember were, caled "The Tool").
If someone can develop a capable Rib exporter (and that should be hard enought....), then you should be able to use c4d with Renderman. But, I don't see wy would someone do that, aside than for learning purposes. Rendeman is the best but requires a team of people dedicated solely to rendering, shader wrigthing etc...
For small productions it's a waste of time... don't go spend a month to do your next architectural walktrough , wen you could do-it in a week...
I know Mayaman as some sort of material convertion, but I doubth it works that great, aniway the power of renderman comes from wrighting custom shaders, eyther by hand or using an external app (there was one I cant remember were, caled "The Tool").
If someone can develop a capable Rib exporter (and that should be hard enought....), then you should be able to use c4d with Renderman. But, I don't see wy would someone do that, aside than for learning purposes. Rendeman is the best but requires a team of people dedicated solely to rendering, shader wrigthing etc...
For small productions it's a waste of time... don't go spend a month to do your next architectural walktrough , wen you could do-it in a week...
Thalaxis
12-22-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Kaiskai
Renderman is the best renderer outthere no ifs and or buts, its been used inmore feature films than anyother to date, thats a reputation thats hard to deny.
I can totally and unequivocally say that that is completely false...
because RenderMan is not a renderer.
:)
You are describing PhotoRealistic RenderMan.
Renderman is the best renderer outthere no ifs and or buts, its been used inmore feature films than anyother to date, thats a reputation thats hard to deny.
I can totally and unequivocally say that that is completely false...
because RenderMan is not a renderer.
:)
You are describing PhotoRealistic RenderMan.
Thalaxis
12-22-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by AdamT
Another thought: there is a Darktree Simbiont for renderman. I wonder if it would be possible to assign darktrees in Cinema and have the plugin translate that info. so it could be picked up by the rman compliant renderer?
Yes. That's the easy part, since it's just an object attribute.
Another thought: there is a Darktree Simbiont for renderman. I wonder if it would be possible to assign darktrees in Cinema and have the plugin translate that info. so it could be picked up by the rman compliant renderer?
Yes. That's the easy part, since it's just an object attribute.
Mazer
12-22-2003, 09:18 PM
RenderMan is not a renderer.
Hehe:) thrue.
Hehe:) thrue.
LucentDreams
12-22-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
I can totally and unequivocally say that that is completely false...
because RenderMan is not a renderer.
:)
You are describing PhotoRealistic RenderMan.
You are arguing pointless semantics guys, first of all the thread is super old, and second, considering my mentions of many of the renderman algorithm compliant renderers it should be apparent that like 90% of the world out there, stright refernce or renderman is generaly regarded as PRMAN,in part becauseof the fact its the only one that really useuse "renderman" in its Title except for maybe the new JRman.
I can totally and unequivocally say that that is completely false...
because RenderMan is not a renderer.
:)
You are describing PhotoRealistic RenderMan.
You are arguing pointless semantics guys, first of all the thread is super old, and second, considering my mentions of many of the renderman algorithm compliant renderers it should be apparent that like 90% of the world out there, stright refernce or renderman is generaly regarded as PRMAN,in part becauseof the fact its the only one that really useuse "renderman" in its Title except for maybe the new JRman.
Thalaxis
12-22-2003, 09:39 PM
Missed the smiley, eh?
But in actuality the only reason that most people equate
RenderMan with PRman is that they don't know any better.
In reality, at least from the point of view of someone who might
use some of these applications, the difference is huge. Having
RenderMan support in Cinema doesn't mean that you can render
in PRman, it means that you can render in PRman, 3DLight, Aqsis,
Pixie, Blue Moon Rendering Tools (if you can find it)... and, well,
you get the point.
But in actuality the only reason that most people equate
RenderMan with PRman is that they don't know any better.
In reality, at least from the point of view of someone who might
use some of these applications, the difference is huge. Having
RenderMan support in Cinema doesn't mean that you can render
in PRman, it means that you can render in PRman, 3DLight, Aqsis,
Pixie, Blue Moon Rendering Tools (if you can find it)... and, well,
you get the point.
crgowo
12-23-2003, 04:11 AM
if people are interested "the tool" is really named Shaderman and you can get it here
http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html
version 0.7.0.o just came out hte 20th of dec. makes shader creation alot easier.
http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html
version 0.7.0.o just came out hte 20th of dec. makes shader creation alot easier.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 01:36 PM
this is an old thread and i tried to revive it because the rib exporter that's out is working well enough for testing and experimenting with shaders.
i've been tinkering with shaderman and it's quite nice. i'm not yet able to get a shader out of it though. i export the .sl source but when i export the .slc material it tells me to preview it to compile it. i do so and the same thing happens when i try and export it again.
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
i've been tinkering with shaderman and it's quite nice. i'm not yet able to get a shader out of it though. i export the .sl source but when i export the .slc material it tells me to preview it to compile it. i do so and the same thing happens when i try and export it again.
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
Mazer
12-23-2003, 01:52 PM
Missed the smiley, eh?
Your words are my words too...
Well I personaly gave up on Learning Renderman (the Interface;) ) But the is some info at www.deathfall.com.
But everione is going to point you to a Book called "Renderman Companion"... so if you realy are interested, you have to buy-it...
Your words are my words too...
Well I personaly gave up on Learning Renderman (the Interface;) ) But the is some info at www.deathfall.com.
But everione is going to point you to a Book called "Renderman Companion"... so if you realy are interested, you have to buy-it...
crgowo
12-23-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Gendou
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
ya ive been tring to figure out how to attach shaders to my models for a while.
i ususally just use the c4d shader then edit the rib and replace the surface "cinema4d" (shader) with hte one i created. I get some errrors when i render because some features that are in the cinema4d shader are not in the one i created. But it basicly comes out right.
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
ya ive been tring to figure out how to attach shaders to my models for a while.
i ususally just use the c4d shader then edit the rib and replace the surface "cinema4d" (shader) with hte one i created. I get some errrors when i render because some features that are in the cinema4d shader are not in the one i created. But it basicly comes out right.
Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 02:38 PM
crgowo --
That's it. It's via the "surface" attribute.
Mazer --
Another (easier) option:
Essential RenderMan, Fast
It's also more current than the RenderMan Companion, which
while being a very good book, is also quite old.
There's also Advanced RenderMan, for more intensive stuff.
That's it. It's via the "surface" attribute.
Mazer --
Another (easier) option:
Essential RenderMan, Fast
It's also more current than the RenderMan Companion, which
while being a very good book, is also quite old.
There's also Advanced RenderMan, for more intensive stuff.
Mazer
12-23-2003, 02:43 PM
BTW, Thalaxis, you seem to be quite experienced in rendering, have you tryed C4d's renderer? What's you opinion on it?
Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 02:53 PM
Personally, I love it... it's missing a few features that are turning
into the day's buzzwords, but the output is right up there... and
as far as I can tell, this opinion is shared by a lot of people
outside the Cinema user community.
But I'm a techie... one of the plethora of reasons that I love
Cinema is that I am a software engineer (trapped by a
weak economy into working with people who don't know what
software engineering is) who appreciates quality engineering.
What I dislike about Cinema's renderer is the shader system. It's
extremely powerful, but the interface is terrible.
The work of a few Cinema users is a large part of what inspired
me to start moving from focusing on the technology of 3D and
into the art of 3D.
into the day's buzzwords, but the output is right up there... and
as far as I can tell, this opinion is shared by a lot of people
outside the Cinema user community.
But I'm a techie... one of the plethora of reasons that I love
Cinema is that I am a software engineer (trapped by a
weak economy into working with people who don't know what
software engineering is) who appreciates quality engineering.
What I dislike about Cinema's renderer is the shader system. It's
extremely powerful, but the interface is terrible.
The work of a few Cinema users is a large part of what inspired
me to start moving from focusing on the technology of 3D and
into the art of 3D.
Mazer
12-23-2003, 03:02 PM
Hum.., I see you'r point. I am myself considering seriously C4d, but, comming from Maya at work, for what i could see from the Demo, there are two particular things that are saeting me back a litle.. the fact that I'm used to a node based material editor, and the lack of buit in preview rendering (ala IPR or Viper)..
Sory this is OT.
Sory this is OT.
Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 03:16 PM
There is a plugin called SniperPro which addresses the IPR issue,
and it's not very expensive. I have not purchased it yet, because
I got distracted by Mesh Surgery. :)
BodyPaint2 is almost enough to make up for Cinema's procedural
shader system. They've addressed most of the other UI issues,
and BodyPaint2 is... well, I'm a beginner at texturing, and already
I'm starting to feel like I can start going to town with BP2. Had I
not been distracted by Mesh Surgery, I would have started to
learn it sooner. Getting distracted by S&T didn't help any :)
I will probably take the approach of using DarkTree to create any
interesting shaders that I need, unless it turns out that writing
them by hand seems easier ;)
The most irritating thing IMO about SLA is that it really IS a
genuine texture tree system, and that the only thing keeping it
from being an unusually good one is the crappy UI. The SLA
shaders really are more powerful than I'm used to seeing in
LightWave, though (again, IMO).
I think that if you hang out in this forum for a while, you'll find
yourself understanding why people here like Cinema and Maxon
so much. It certainly doesn't hurt that the community here on
CGTalk is also very good.
As far as companies go, I put Maxon in the same category as
TagMcLaren Audio.
edit -- quick note -- I suspect that one reason that there isn't
a RIB output option for Cinema is their renderer... not only is it
very good to begin with, but it's also extremely fast, very
economical to license for a renderfarm, and comes with a very
easy to use renderfarm manager.
and it's not very expensive. I have not purchased it yet, because
I got distracted by Mesh Surgery. :)
BodyPaint2 is almost enough to make up for Cinema's procedural
shader system. They've addressed most of the other UI issues,
and BodyPaint2 is... well, I'm a beginner at texturing, and already
I'm starting to feel like I can start going to town with BP2. Had I
not been distracted by Mesh Surgery, I would have started to
learn it sooner. Getting distracted by S&T didn't help any :)
I will probably take the approach of using DarkTree to create any
interesting shaders that I need, unless it turns out that writing
them by hand seems easier ;)
The most irritating thing IMO about SLA is that it really IS a
genuine texture tree system, and that the only thing keeping it
from being an unusually good one is the crappy UI. The SLA
shaders really are more powerful than I'm used to seeing in
LightWave, though (again, IMO).
I think that if you hang out in this forum for a while, you'll find
yourself understanding why people here like Cinema and Maxon
so much. It certainly doesn't hurt that the community here on
CGTalk is also very good.
As far as companies go, I put Maxon in the same category as
TagMcLaren Audio.
edit -- quick note -- I suspect that one reason that there isn't
a RIB output option for Cinema is their renderer... not only is it
very good to begin with, but it's also extremely fast, very
economical to license for a renderfarm, and comes with a very
easy to use renderfarm manager.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 03:39 PM
though i'm interested in prman comp renderers i'm also quite impressed by results i've seen from cinema's renderer. part of the reason i have been looking into alternate render solution is that i'm using 6.3 until maxon offers an upgrade path to 8 and i came from learning most of my 3d principles on 3ds max. i've come to HATE max's material manager. digging through endless rollouts and trying to remember what level of what material i'm on drives me batty. when i started using cinema it has a similar (though not as cluttered) material editor.
after seeing node-based material editors and ciustomizable shaders in prman and the recent yafray.. i became unsettled with the material solution.
how well does darktree work with c4d? is it worth the investment as a replacement or companion to c4d's material system?
there is also a node based material editor for yafray called Crafter and it works very similar to shaderman. i don't mean to get down on cinema. it is very user-friendly on most accounts.. materials aside.
hopefully maxon will take note and roll out a node editor for SLA to expose it's full power. just some wishful thinking. :)
after seeing node-based material editors and ciustomizable shaders in prman and the recent yafray.. i became unsettled with the material solution.
how well does darktree work with c4d? is it worth the investment as a replacement or companion to c4d's material system?
there is also a node based material editor for yafray called Crafter and it works very similar to shaderman. i don't mean to get down on cinema. it is very user-friendly on most accounts.. materials aside.
hopefully maxon will take note and roll out a node editor for SLA to expose it's full power. just some wishful thinking. :)
crgowo
12-23-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Gendou
i'm using 6.3 until maxon offers an upgrade path to 8
you might want to check out this thread
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111076
i'm using 6.3 until maxon offers an upgrade path to 8
you might want to check out this thread
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111076
nhytro
12-23-2003, 05:28 PM
Waitaminit, are you the Gendou on the Yafray forum?
Originally posted by Gendou
this is an old thread and i tried to revive it because the rib exporter that's out is working well enough for testing and experimenting with shaders.
i've been tinkering with shaderman and it's quite nice. i'm not yet able to get a shader out of it though. i export the .sl source but when i export the .slc material it tells me to preview it to compile it. i do so and the same thing happens when i try and export it again.
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
Originally posted by Gendou
this is an old thread and i tried to revive it because the rib exporter that's out is working well enough for testing and experimenting with shaders.
i've been tinkering with shaderman and it's quite nice. i'm not yet able to get a shader out of it though. i export the .sl source but when i export the .slc material it tells me to preview it to compile it. i do so and the same thing happens when i try and export it again.
also, what's the correct syntax for adding urface shaders to the attributes on an object? matt savard's rib exporter works fairly well for something he does in his spare time. he's released the sources to it... someone with better programming experience than i have should pick it up and try to implement the animation functionality. this could be helpful to anyone experimenting with renderman compliant renderers.
Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Gendou
though i'm interested in prman comp renderers i'm also quite impressed by results i've seen from cinema's renderer. part of the reason i have been looking into alternate render solution is that i'm using 6.3 until maxon offers an upgrade path to 8 and i came from learning most of my 3d principles on 3ds max. i've come to HATE max's material manager. digging through endless rollouts and trying to remember what level of what material i'm on drives me batty. when i started using cinema it has a similar (though not as cluttered) material editor.
That makes me wonder whether Maxon is using that as
inspiration for their UI.
after seeing node-based material editors and ciustomizable shaders in prman and the recent yafray.. i became unsettled with the material solution.
Everything but the procedural shader engine that they include has
gotten quite an overhaul for v8.5.
how well does darktree work with c4d? is it worth the investment as a replacement or companion to c4d's material system?
As a companion, absolutely. In fact, you can just downlaod the
Symbiont and start using tweakable DarkTrees without buying the
whole package.
hopefully maxon will take note and roll out a node editor for SLA to expose it's full power. just some wishful thinking. :)
I'm not familiar with Yafray, but I also hope that Maxon gets with
it on this. They've done very poorly by SLA since acquiring it; they
included as "integrated" within v7, but it wasn't until v8.5 that
they actually bothered to integrate it... and when they finally did
that, they made an already terrible interface even worse.
though i'm interested in prman comp renderers i'm also quite impressed by results i've seen from cinema's renderer. part of the reason i have been looking into alternate render solution is that i'm using 6.3 until maxon offers an upgrade path to 8 and i came from learning most of my 3d principles on 3ds max. i've come to HATE max's material manager. digging through endless rollouts and trying to remember what level of what material i'm on drives me batty. when i started using cinema it has a similar (though not as cluttered) material editor.
That makes me wonder whether Maxon is using that as
inspiration for their UI.
after seeing node-based material editors and ciustomizable shaders in prman and the recent yafray.. i became unsettled with the material solution.
Everything but the procedural shader engine that they include has
gotten quite an overhaul for v8.5.
how well does darktree work with c4d? is it worth the investment as a replacement or companion to c4d's material system?
As a companion, absolutely. In fact, you can just downlaod the
Symbiont and start using tweakable DarkTrees without buying the
whole package.
hopefully maxon will take note and roll out a node editor for SLA to expose it's full power. just some wishful thinking. :)
I'm not familiar with Yafray, but I also hope that Maxon gets with
it on this. They've done very poorly by SLA since acquiring it; they
included as "integrated" within v7, but it wasn't until v8.5 that
they actually bothered to integrate it... and when they finally did
that, they made an already terrible interface even worse.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 05:45 PM
yes, i'm the same one from the yafray forum. i posted there since there would be more folks who work with yarfay and might have some interest or insight.
not everyone in the blender/yafray/wings camp knows about cgtalk.. or would look in the c4d forum. i'm just looking for help until i can be more useful on the programming end, then i can help out.
not everyone in the blender/yafray/wings camp knows about cgtalk.. or would look in the c4d forum. i'm just looking for help until i can be more useful on the programming end, then i can help out.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 05:50 PM
yafray is a freeware raytracer that's got some similarities to prman and the like. it accepts a specialized xml format as it's input file format, much like rib files, it's human readable and it accepts custom shaders much like renderman. yafray gets better with each release and it already produces some nice results. it runs from a commadn prompt unless you're using a gui program. it's really worth checking out, however until more people know about it and decided to write exporters to its xml format it won't gain acceptance. i like it and the dedication of the blender/yafray userbase and teaming yafray & crafter (its version of shaderman or hypershade) with c4d & darktree and you have a nice customizable toolset.
www.yafray.org for more info.
www.yafray.org for more info.
Thalaxis
12-23-2003, 05:53 PM
Cool! I love the name, too... :)
Thanks muchly for the info! :beer:
Thanks muchly for the info! :beer:
Mazer
12-23-2003, 05:59 PM
teaming yafray & crafter (its version of shaderman or hypershade) with c4d & darktree and you have a nice customizable toolset.
You mean you can use c4d with yafray? Can you elaborate on that?
You mean you can use c4d with yafray? Can you elaborate on that?
nhytro
12-23-2003, 06:08 PM
Cool :) I just replied to your post in the Yafray forum
Originally posted by Gendou
yes, i'm the same one from the yafray forum. i posted there since there would be more folks who work with yarfay and might have some interest or insight.
not everyone in the blender/yafray/wings camp knows about cgtalk.. or would look in the c4d forum. i'm just looking for help until i can be more useful on the programming end, then i can help out.
Originally posted by Gendou
yes, i'm the same one from the yafray forum. i posted there since there would be more folks who work with yarfay and might have some interest or insight.
not everyone in the blender/yafray/wings camp knows about cgtalk.. or would look in the c4d forum. i'm just looking for help until i can be more useful on the programming end, then i can help out.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 06:32 PM
mazer; no you can't use c4d with yafray yet.. i'm attempting to learn c.o.f.f.e.e. and find others to help create a yafray exporter for c4d. once that's done, you will be able to use yafray for renderig and crafter for some of the materials.
here's to hoping it can be done! :beer:
here's to hoping it can be done! :beer:
Gendou
12-23-2003, 06:38 PM
nhytro: thanks alot for the offer! i just wrapped up college (gradated.. yay!) so now i have some time on my hands to start learning c.o.f.f.e.e. i email stew yafray forum) about helping out since he made a yafray exporter for poser. he got back to me and said he probably wouldn't have time but said there's an example exporter in the coffee sdk to study. i'm going to take a look at that when i get home from wrok today and see what i can make of it.
i appreciate the offer to help, i'm sure i'll need it. i'll email you later today.
thanks again.
-g
i appreciate the offer to help, i'm sure i'll need it. i'll email you later today.
thanks again.
-g
Geespot
12-23-2003, 07:13 PM
Gendou,
I'm quite experienced in writting exporters for C4D, I have made many for my own custom formats. This thread has got my attention and I am interested in helping out making a yayfray exporter. Although I am in the process in writing 2 other export plugins (all for my own formats) I wouldn't mind working on a yayfray.
Perhaps your knowledge of yayfray (I have zero) and my knowledge of export writing, we could work something out
I'm quite experienced in writting exporters for C4D, I have made many for my own custom formats. This thread has got my attention and I am interested in helping out making a yayfray exporter. Although I am in the process in writing 2 other export plugins (all for my own formats) I wouldn't mind working on a yayfray.
Perhaps your knowledge of yayfray (I have zero) and my knowledge of export writing, we could work something out
Gendou
12-23-2003, 10:04 PM
thanks for the offer Geespot.
i want to say that i'm not at a point where i can do alot for it. i don't mean to sound like i'm asking others to do the work, but as a learner it can help to have experienced people you can ask question ro help out when i can't figure something out.
i'm cracking open the 6.3 sdk today and i'm going to look through it and see if there's a place i can start learning from. there are 2 tutorials on the web about coffee scripting. one's about making a stairway generator plugin and the other's for generating houses (i think). i'm going to look through the sdk for information about formats, writing files and how geometry is handled and so on. i also have the tinrocket xml plugin i can look at for an idea of what it should do.
there is an entire site about the yafray xml format and another dealing with yafray shader blocks. i printed all of the yafray file format info and i'll be using that as a guide as to what the plugin should be creating.
thanks to everyone for the help and interest! it would be cool if this could get made. it might lend some more extensibility to cinema 4d, especially to the new batch of CE users (like me) and to the v8 users. i feel that it doesn't hurt to have more options when working.
thanks again everyone.
i want to say that i'm not at a point where i can do alot for it. i don't mean to sound like i'm asking others to do the work, but as a learner it can help to have experienced people you can ask question ro help out when i can't figure something out.
i'm cracking open the 6.3 sdk today and i'm going to look through it and see if there's a place i can start learning from. there are 2 tutorials on the web about coffee scripting. one's about making a stairway generator plugin and the other's for generating houses (i think). i'm going to look through the sdk for information about formats, writing files and how geometry is handled and so on. i also have the tinrocket xml plugin i can look at for an idea of what it should do.
there is an entire site about the yafray xml format and another dealing with yafray shader blocks. i printed all of the yafray file format info and i'll be using that as a guide as to what the plugin should be creating.
thanks to everyone for the help and interest! it would be cool if this could get made. it might lend some more extensibility to cinema 4d, especially to the new batch of CE users (like me) and to the v8 users. i feel that it doesn't hurt to have more options when working.
thanks again everyone.
Gendou
12-23-2003, 11:25 PM
btw.. here's my email address: a_arlof@hotmail.com
i just went through a tutorial on nthd.org where you're shown how to make a staircase utility with coffee. i followed the loose directions and when i got to the end i had learned how to make a dialog box but no stair util. :P installed it, ran c4d, no dice. gave me an error. i checked mine against the supplied file.. totally different. musn't have followed his own tut.
anyway.. i'm going to keep plugging away.. see if i can make it work.. and try other tuts. i just need to get an understanding of the fundamental components of coffee.. then i should be able to learn by experiments and reading on plugincafe.com.
if anyone has any heavily commented little files of plug source, it might help me get a grasp on it.. (i'm not asking for anything that's worth money.. just like.. this is how you make a dialog (right), this is how you make a box.. and let the user decide how many times ot repeat it.. i dont know.. simple stuff for a lerner.
thanks for the interest and tips!
i just went through a tutorial on nthd.org where you're shown how to make a staircase utility with coffee. i followed the loose directions and when i got to the end i had learned how to make a dialog box but no stair util. :P installed it, ran c4d, no dice. gave me an error. i checked mine against the supplied file.. totally different. musn't have followed his own tut.
anyway.. i'm going to keep plugging away.. see if i can make it work.. and try other tuts. i just need to get an understanding of the fundamental components of coffee.. then i should be able to learn by experiments and reading on plugincafe.com.
if anyone has any heavily commented little files of plug source, it might help me get a grasp on it.. (i'm not asking for anything that's worth money.. just like.. this is how you make a dialog (right), this is how you make a box.. and let the user decide how many times ot repeat it.. i dont know.. simple stuff for a lerner.
thanks for the interest and tips!
stew
12-23-2003, 11:49 PM
That stew from the Yafray forum would be me...
I think I'm going to reboot into MacOS now (am in Linux right now) and have another look at that COFFEE SDK, if they provide an exporter skeleton it shouldn't be too hard to get at least point lights and triangles from C4D to Yafray.
I think I'm going to reboot into MacOS now (am in Linux right now) and have another look at that COFFEE SDK, if they provide an exporter skeleton it shouldn't be too hard to get at least point lights and triangles from C4D to Yafray.
crgowo
01-04-2004, 06:54 AM
does anyone know if the Renderman exporter is still going to be updated?
i dont get a reply when i email or send a suggestion. thanks
i dont get a reply when i email or send a suggestion. thanks
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