View Full Version : Work Dump! (Warning Image Heavy)

09-08-2007, 11:03 AM
Hey Guys,

Long time no post here, wanted to get a bit of a thread going on cgtalk to start dumping some of the work i been doing and get some critique / feedback.

I been working on a mental ray shader for presentation renders, focusing around realistic skin utilising real-time models.

Heres what ive got so far:



What else can I do here guys? Meanwhile im going to start on a couple of low poly heads.

Cheers! :)

09-08-2007, 11:50 AM
That's lovely Hazardous.

One small crit which isn't really related to the shader but more to the anatomy of the first arm- the wrist seems a bit too chunky and could use a bit more definition.

Otherwise really impressive... keep posting


09-08-2007, 02:04 PM
Hi Mindrot, thanks for the crit, i see what you mean, i think its the lack of the boney bits around the wrist. Ill fix that up! Thanks i really appreciate it!

09-08-2007, 09:40 PM
Holy shit, that shader looks awesome. Real nice job on that. Very natural-looking. :thumbsup:

Mike Kopa
09-09-2007, 12:55 AM
Very nice work. Any chance we could see your UV's and your color/spec maps?

09-09-2007, 12:56 AM
LoTekk: Thanks man - Im glad you like it :)

09-09-2007, 01:15 AM
Wow man thats rediculous. Very nice.

09-09-2007, 01:21 AM
Mike Kopa: Thanks, Sure thing. For some reason though i cant get the pic to display like above, only a link appears.. hmm :shrug: Im sure ill work it out.


gsokol: Thanks man :thumbsup:

Mike Kopa
09-09-2007, 02:03 AM
awesome job, Jon. One question for you though... when painting your diffuse map, did you hand paint that mostly? Or did you use photo reference like from 3d.sk and piece it together from images? And thanks for posting those images.

09-09-2007, 02:10 AM
Mike Kopa: Thanks again! Its a bit of a mix of both, definately cant go past 3d.sk for reference images, but applying them straight onto a mesh doesnt give quite the best result.

I generally make a base of painted colours, noises and veins, and finally play around with bringing the heavily worked photos through the painted layers.

It maybe a bit of a long way around, but it works quite well if you have the time!

09-09-2007, 02:15 AM
That is one sexy looking arm. I swear it looks close to mine without hair. It's scary typing this and then looking at my hand and back up at the picture.

Since this is the game art design, what game would support this type particular project of yours?

Mike Kopa
09-09-2007, 02:41 AM
nice, thanks for sharing your workflow. I kind of figured that was how you painted the textures. Base hand painted textures with base color variation, veins, noise etc. and then I'm guessing you more or less overlay the edited photos on top to get the extra details like skin pores and hairs etc?

09-09-2007, 04:22 AM
Mike Kopa: Yup thats right, i use a variety of layer types, soft lights, multiplys, even hard lights. I also do alot of desaturating and colourising what i have, and using that as multiplys at really low opacity.

I really hack the crap out of source photos and just experiment with whatever works to give me the best result.

Im still learning alot about lighting and rendering - this is just a couple of default omni's with no special settings on them. The magic all really happens in the shader.

Guy In Rubber Suit
09-09-2007, 06:19 AM
That's simply incredible. It looks quite realistic.

Mike Kopa
09-09-2007, 06:27 AM
That's cool man, thanks for sharing some tips. It's much appreciated. Keep up the great work.

09-10-2007, 10:46 AM
mmmmmmm gnashing.


The teeth look a bit pearly damnit.

09-10-2007, 11:01 AM
Awesome dude! I definitely agree the teeth are too pearly, or just plain pearl, but you already know that ;) I'm particularly impressed by the specular though, looks like you could touch those gums and they'd be perfectly moist, nice.

I'm very inspired to see such realism from such an impressively small poly count, it's causing me to rethink a few poly/texture balance situations!

You have one more fan ;)

09-10-2007, 12:21 PM
Just knocked up this default head to be used as my base for male and female heads in zbrush!


Does this mouth look a fraction big maybe...

09-10-2007, 12:40 PM
Just knocked up this default head to be used as my base for male and female heads in zbrush!

Does this mouth look a fraction big maybe...

Yup, but you're taking it into Z, so no worries! Nice stuff :thumbsup:

take care,


09-10-2007, 02:34 PM
Great stuff, i'm particularly interested in your shader settings for the MR shader, anychance of showing a screen grab of the shader?

keep going, watching this one with interest.

09-11-2007, 03:26 AM
dangermouse: Thanks man, I spent generally the most tweaking time on the spec maps, i think its the main difference in making materials look like its supposed to. Glad to hear you like how this is panning out, ill be sure to keep posting!

lildragon: Thank you! :)

CG-Gordon: Cheers :thumbsup: I'm putting together my first tutorial at the moment, so yup im more than happy to show the MR settings ive come up with to generate these results - i hope i will be able to cover everything in there. ill be asking you guys for feedback!!!

I've been working on some eyes today, will post them up later on when i get home :)

Mike Kopa
09-11-2007, 04:02 AM
This might be a stupid question, but are there really MR shaders that are real time with SSS?
Granted I haven't really used much in terms of MR shaders just yet, but i never knew such a thing existed. So yeah, I agree... you should post up your shader, if you wouldn't mind.

09-11-2007, 05:24 AM
Mike Kopa: Not that im aware of at this stage, hopefully i havent mislead anyone here, this is not a realtime shader that i have going here. Its a mental ray shader that ive tweaked up using a whole bunch of input from various sources and artists that have helped me. And because all i have at this stage is some low poly models that ive made up - i decided to render them utilising it!

There realtime SSS shaders available though - Joel Styles has one, and im sure theres another one floating about by Ben Cloward. ( those are the 2 that i know of )

Hopefully that helps :)

09-11-2007, 05:24 AM
Sorry, Double Post! :shrug:

Mike Kopa
09-11-2007, 05:33 AM
ah, Ok. That's kinda what I figured. Thanks.

I'm sure someday SSS will be realtime. It's just a matter of time. I'll def. check out those shaders by Joel and Ben though.

09-11-2007, 06:12 AM
The main reason I've been following this thread and your work is because although I'm getting into film, low poly work has a lot of advantages. Animation stand ins, and dynamics proxies just to name a few. And obviously shaders are of paramount importance. So while it seemd like a strange blend at first, it's most useful to me, and I'm certain for you also.

Regarding realtime SSS, I'm sure I remember seeing something from Nvidia about a SSS pixel shader they were working on, I might be remembering this incorrectly but I also think they released a small visual demo that ran on pixel shader based 2 cards, I'm pretty sure they had faked he effect, but it looked nice all the same. If I can retrieve my computer (long story, awful circumstances) which has my 7900GT in it, I'll look into it some more.

By the way, I am REALLY looking forward to that tutorial. You sir, are a legend. As is anyone that takes the time to help the CG community :)

09-11-2007, 06:36 AM
Mike Kopa: Some engines have the capability to render SSS or a damn good approximation of it - REALTIME. Check out the Cry Engine 2 or the game utilising the engine - Crysis. The skin in this is phenominal as far as realtime realism goes.

There are a bunch of other engines and games pumping out approximations that are getting fairly close to the real deal.

And for an absolute mind bendingly good example of pretty much the closest SSS your going to get, check out Nvidias human head tech demo - there are movies of the realtime footage, or even better if you own an 8800 GT + graphics card download and install the demo yourself. Its rediculously good :eek:


dangermouse: Hey thanks man :) no probs, im slowly getting through the tutorial. Also yeah this is fairly important for what im doing at the moment, especially for visualisation purposes, quick render times and whatnot.

Tally ho!

09-11-2007, 07:02 AM
The Unreal Engine 3 also supports real-time SSS.

09-11-2007, 08:48 AM
Docm30: Indeed it does :)

Heres those low poly eyes i noodled around with today. This is utilising the same shader as the skin, just ive added a raytraced material and applied that to a duplicate mesh slightly larger than the actual eyeball.

I think the reflection and wetness is not quite there yet, but am looking forward to getting these into some characters.


What do you guys think ?

09-11-2007, 08:52 AM
Nice job, looking forward to seeing these in a head!

09-11-2007, 11:12 AM
CG-Gordon: Thanks man! :) I just checked out your folio, i remember looking at that rocket girl a while back and saying to a few of the guys at work " Man thats sweeet we should contact this guy and hire him!!

09-11-2007, 10:31 PM
Thanks Hazardous, that rocket girl was done so long ago now and she's showing her age! I need to get posting some new stuff, but I find it difficult getting time. I've been rendering a fair bit in mental ray though, and your thread has been a great insight. Keep posting, your results are very good indeed and also very inspiring :D

09-12-2007, 08:47 AM
hey jon!

great stuff, here. your texture and shader work are stunning.
next stop: full character...:thumbsup:


09-15-2007, 12:41 AM
DAMN!, my old Graphire 3 tablet died a few nights ago - no way am i sculpting with a mouse...
New Intuo 3 on the way cant wait!!! Sorry for lack of updates!

Mike Kopa
09-15-2007, 01:09 AM
That sucks man. I'm sure the Intuos 3 will be REAL nice though. What size did you get?

And I'll be looking forward to new updates.

Oh btw, is it just me or is your site not working properly? When I go to it, all I get is the "Hazard Art Enter" screen. When I click Enter it just goes back to the same thing.

09-15-2007, 03:26 AM
Hey Mike, i got a 6x8 just big enough really the 18 x 12 or 12 x 12's are to big for me, i find my arm getting sore when im painting big strokes :eek:

My sites still under construction, i should put that in the link ! Thanks for reminding me! :applause:

Mike Kopa
09-15-2007, 03:47 AM
lol np man. Glad I could help. Looking forward to seein your site when it's done.

09-15-2007, 07:51 AM
incredible work

09-15-2007, 10:16 AM
Default Female mesh, prior to zbrush.

What do you think guys ?


09-15-2007, 10:38 AM
Nice clean geo and good even poly disrobution but I do see a fair number of 3 and 5 sided polys in there that could subdivide badly in ZB, try a few sub divs in your modeling app and see if you get pinching if so then get rid of the ngons. Other than that its got a good natural look to it, nice to see somthing thats not a barbie clone for a change ;)

09-15-2007, 11:07 PM
GArriola83: Thanks :thumbsup:

Xaltar: There is a couple, I'll definately clean those up! No barbie clones for me!

09-16-2007, 07:20 PM
on the duplicate mesh, try adding a cornea to the normal map.
i cant tell from this angle, but it doesnt look like the iris is flat like it should be.

while your making your tutorial, i think it should be a video tutorial, you can crank one of those out in a couple hours and just upload it to anywhere. you can even use free screen capture software like camstudio.

this is a great thread cant wait for your tutorial.

09-17-2007, 04:36 PM
Awesome work dude..

I will try these tech. in my models too.

12-06-2007, 08:24 AM
Hey Guys,

Wow its been some time since i updated this, and i owe you guys a tutorial.

Ive been a slack bastard, i know i know, and weve just got past a milestone at work so been pulling some long hours. :buttrock:

But ill remedy this for sure!

Spider2544: The iris is flat, and there is a cornea but maybe its not quite big enough of a bump, cheers for the feedback ill adjust that! And thanks for the heads up about the tutorial, im not sure it will be a video tho, ill start off with some simple screenshots with my dodgy writing on it LOL.

Digitalpolycounter: Hey thanks man, sorry for the delay on the tutorial.

Tutorial Coming up!

12-06-2007, 08:59 AM
Heres a couple of heads ive sculpted up for practise..

A Cheesy but serious smooth talkin ladies man, with an attitude ( that makes no sense ) but... :scream:


And a diseased fellow....


Im really not happy with how this diseased guy came out, wrinkles have no sense of weight, amd the hair, ears, nose, geez dont get me started its pretty bad this one, but thought id whack it up here never theless.

Will keep Updating - and keep this like my journal, Im learning so much!!!

12-06-2007, 10:50 AM
Amazing man! I've never thought mental sss shader could turn out that nice. With all that fancy details in the map and in the model, I think you must have drawn thousand pictures till now. Really stunning pic there. I just can't imagine what kind of studying would enable you to draw such intense textures.

12-06-2007, 01:02 PM
That first head is awesome, like a hero straight out of an adventure game!

12-07-2007, 09:03 AM
Good stuff Hazardous! I especially like the first head, very nice style and the hair work is exceptional. Good going. The second head isn't nearly as bad as you said :P I like what your doing with alphas too for pores etc. Are you just using projection master or is it a map?

Wheres the bloody tutorial! I still can't render anything in MR! Get cracking :wip:

12-07-2007, 10:54 AM
pckoi: Hey Thanks man, it sure feels like ive painted a thousand textures :scream: And actually i dont have very much artistic study at all to be honest :shrug: I think it shows in my work, I cant ever get across quite what i want to, or the picture in my head never quite matches what my end result is. I think the lack of quality artistic training has left me with this problem.

Essentially everything I produce, has come from a few years of hair pulling, sleepless nights etc. I feel gutted when i see naturally talented artist like so many of you guys on here, and you just produce something sensational, and i see your 20 years of age, a few years of artistic schooling.. etc makes me feel like an idiot LOL :scream: I'm like "geez why the f**k didnt i do that!"

pixelgoat: Thanks man :) , what style of adventure game you think he would be in ?

CG-Gordon: Cheers man! Im not using projection master at all, i just use the default alphas that come with zbrush and more or less push them straight into the mesh. Its not a texture - im probably doing it the idiot way - takes 10 times as long, but yeah i practically push about 8 - 10 pores in, on one alpha stroke, then really slightly run over them with the inflate brush to kind of.... fatten the pore, it gives it less of a cylinder HOLE look and more of a gradual closing the deeper it goes into the skin.

I find that some of the alphas produce a result thats too similar to just a surface indentation, it bugged me for ages... bah its so hard to explain, maybe another tutorial for the list!!!

What am i getting myself into lol.

Ok this weekend, ill have the tutorial done, and posted. promise. Thanks for looking guys, and i really appreciate the feedback.

Cheers. :buttrock:

12-09-2007, 06:43 AM
Hi Guys,

Okay heres the first rough outline of the Tutorial, im currently putting together a more comprehensive run through in PDF format as well.

But this ( i hope ) should provide a decent starting point to produce the renders that i did earlier.

Step 1: Im assuming you all know how to set your renderer to Mental Ray!! :scream:

Choose SSS Fast Skin Material!


Step 2: Ive got my Normal, Additional Bump, Diffuse, SSS and Specular / Specular Colour maps all placed where I think they work best. Some people have asked me why i dont store the bump information right into the normal map.

And its a fairly common practise to do that i know, but i just prefer to have the control in max, over 2 very separate maps. The normal map for bigger volumes,shapes and large wrinkles , and the bump for the small pore and fine wrinkle details.

Also take not that there is an HDR map placed in the LOCAL ENVIRONMENT slot, you can put
any HDR you want in there, max yb default comes with a few.


Step 3: This is the normal & bump setup I use, i thought i would put it here as ive also noticed a few people have asked me how to get the normal map information to render using Mental Ray Fast Skin shaders etc. So here it is..


Step 4: My basic Lighting setup & render Settings for Mental Ray. Its really simple, and every value that ive not shown here, you can consider it to be default.

I spent many an hour tweaking crap that not needed tweaking - trust me, leave 90% of the stuff alone and youll be right LOL! :buttrock:


Now thats about it - Enjoy guys, and let me know how you go, and feel free to bug me if this doesnt make any sense, or if ive left something out.

Happy Rendering! :buttrock:


12-09-2007, 02:30 PM
The only crit I have so far is that you use WAAAHAAY too much spec for you own good :)

But it looks absolutely awesome! :) Keep it going.

12-09-2007, 09:01 PM
CGmonkey: lol! :eek: what do you mean ?? the values are up way too high in the material? or do you think the final pass the spec looks way too high ? pls help lol!

12-10-2007, 08:04 AM
Brilliant Hazardous! Cheers for the tutorial. Interesting that you use a seperate bump for control on the high frequency normals.

Not sure if CGmonkey is looking at the at all the renders, one of the reasons I was keen to see a tutorial on your MR renders was because the spec looked spot on.

12-10-2007, 08:16 AM
argh, double post, move along people...

12-10-2007, 10:25 AM
CG-Gordon: Hey Man no probs, Hopefully it helps :) . Re the bump, yeah i prefer to have the control right there in max when im making presentation renders. Its just a quicker way of tweaking the end result, rather than playing with overlay levels inside of your PSD file, on your normal map.

Heres a bit of an expression excersize i did a few weeks back. Im not too happy with how it turned out, can improove alot of things, man its embarrising posting some of this stuff up, but hey one day ill look back and have a laugh i think!


Thanks for looking guys, comments and crits always welcomed. Ill hopefully get back to some more game related stuff soon.

Ciao for now! :buttrock:

12-10-2007, 10:33 AM
Oh i forgot to add,

Ive done somthing which i found quite interesting, and thought i would share. I spent a bit of time breaking down the MR skin shader and decided to use Unreal Engine 3 to get as close a result as i possibly could to that render, in realtime.

And i think ive got a good skin shader result thats pretty damned close to that MR render, using less shader instructions than the gears of war models.

Will take some screenshots and post them up tommorow for comparison.

12-10-2007, 10:38 AM
excellent looking forward to seeing the comparison tomorrow.

12-10-2007, 11:23 AM
I must say your work is great!

12-10-2007, 10:12 PM
As promised, heres the realtime skin shader in UE3.

Still working on tweaking the edge reflection...


Hard to really show it via a screenshot, looks much better in realtime that way you get to see a more fresnel specular moving over the surface as well as the subsurface scattering etc.

Will take a movie and post a link maybe... hmmm :buttrock:

12-10-2007, 11:35 PM
Good to see some Aussie action on these forums. Draw dropping work man, espicially the shaders. Looking forward to see more.

12-11-2007, 08:52 AM
Looks pretty good hazardous. I followed your steps with one of my models and found the render to be really dark. I changed the logarithmic exposure control and boosted the brightness quite a lot which helped. Did you have to do this also?

12-11-2007, 10:06 AM
CodyAlday: Hey man, thanks! hopefully ill keep pumping more out.

CG-Gordon: Hmmmm not too sure what that could be man, what you see there is my render settings and the results you see on that big render sheet on the front page... hmmmm will look again and post if i find anything.

12-11-2007, 10:37 AM
*edit cause i'm dumb :)

12-11-2007, 10:40 AM
Ermmmmm.... Trashed, dont mean to be rude but...This is my journal thread for my work...

12-11-2007, 10:50 AM
oh damn i'm sorry man, ill delete my post..really sorry

12-11-2007, 11:10 AM
Trashed: No worries man, :) Thanks for taking it out.

CG-Gordon: Nope sorry man, couldnt find anything at all :shrug: what are your texture maps looking like if you want to pm me them ill try help you out ? or maybe the max file etc ?

12-11-2007, 12:06 PM
Excellent! Great render.

12-11-2007, 02:06 PM
It's nice to see more from you, :) maybe the spec should be softer a bit.

12-13-2007, 07:22 AM
Blaschke: Hey thanks man =)

pckhoi: thanks for dropping by again, which render are you talking about ? The realtime one ? if so i totally agree the fingernails are glowing white :eek: If not, please give me feeback about which one you think. Thanks again!

Heres some skin testing that ive been working on - using the polypaint function in zbrush and a custom shader that i tweaked up. Still alot of skin variations / tones in hue etc. More wrinkle definition and perhaps more assymetry to go.

(This is a viewport grab from zbrush - not a max render)

As always, comments and crits appreciated, feedback always welcome. :buttrock:

No Photos used in this texture, all 100% polypainting only. Im trying to see what level of realism i can achieve - not doing too well yet. :sad:

12-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Bloody hell thats come out well. Good job sir. Infact I'm not sure I've seen a zbrush render come out looking quite so close to a max render. Very impressed indeed.

Mike Kopa
12-13-2007, 04:17 PM
Hey Hazardous, I had a question for ya...

First off, great work as always. I look forward to your updates on this thread.

Anyway, my question was, how do you get the "edge reflection" on those arms? Both the regular one, and the UE3 one. Did you use something similar to a facing ratio with a ramp like you would do in Maya? Or is there something different that's used in Max? Would you mind sharing?

Thanks a lot, and keep up the great work. It's really inspiring.

12-13-2007, 10:30 PM
CG-Gordon: Cheers man, actually its not even a render its a capture of the viewport. Thats what im working with realtime. Its the first time iver ever used polypaint - and spent some time setting up a skin shader in zbrush with a lighting rig. :)

Mike Kopa: Hey man, thanks for stopping by again :) The edge reflection thing, ive got noted down on my tutorial just back a page or so in this thread. Whack an HDR map in the local environ slot on your fast skin material and then tweak the reflection weight and reflection edge weight until you got something you like.

Inside Unreal 3 - okay this might be a bit much to grasp but im assuming youve played a bit with the unreal editor. :scream:

Firstly I multiply a fresnel value of about 7.5 with a constant of roughly .2 - i feed this into an Add - which is plugged straight into my emmisive channel.

Now the other value plugged into the Add is a Linear Interpolation expression. With a multiply of a .1 constant and the RGB of my Diffuse map Plugged into A. A camera Vector plugged into B and a 0 constant plugged into the alpha. This basically enables you to always have that slight faint edge glow running around your skin - you can change the colour if you want by not using your diffuse map in the A of the linear interpolate but instead putting a COnstant Vector 3 value, which you can change over time or based on a camera vector for some really funky stuff.

I hope that makes sense! :buttrock:

Play around and see what you get!

Mike Kopa
12-13-2007, 10:56 PM
hey man, thanks for the explanation. I'll definitely play around with that, thanks.

12-14-2007, 07:20 AM
Some day you will kill me thru your posts.
I am a heart patient so please do not post these type of amazing work. :D
What a wonderful texturing you have done on the faces.

Are you done all the texturing in zbrush?
can you plz tell me some about texturing in zbrush like your's.

I tried many time but I can make them in photoshop but now I want to learn texturing in zbrush after seeing your head texturing...

I am mad about your art..

Keep rocking dude...

12-15-2007, 11:53 PM
Mike Kopa: Hey no problem man, hopefully you get some good results.

Digital Polycounter: haha! thanks man! :scream: Yes all the texture work is in zbrush. Using polypainting to paint straight ont the high polygon mesh. Its my first go at using this
method, and ive found it to be pretty damn good at achieving a style, or feel for the piece im working on. I plan to use Zapplink to take it even further now that i have a base established.

Basically my mesh is around 1.4 million poly, and polypaint assigns a colour per poly - the more detailed you want to paint in zbrush, the higher your polycount needs to be ( essentially ) personally i think this is plenty, if your only after establishing a direction and not a final end result. you can achieve something like this, after just a couple of hours of polypainting.

Hopefully that explains a little bit ??

12-16-2007, 11:25 PM
Stunning pics as always, :) can't wait to see the movie. I talked about the real time one, especially the man's arm. The spec make the skin looks a little bit too smooth, just a little bit. And there is a seam on the ring finger now I look closer. Other than that everythings look very nice and reallistic. The glowing nail may looks perfect in an outdoor scence so it's totally great.

12-17-2007, 02:00 PM
i love how you did your eyes. do you mind showing us how you did that? my eyes tend to be lifeless sometimes.

12-17-2007, 09:05 PM
pckhoi: Hey man, thanks! :) I see what you mean about the spec, and i agree - ill tone that back a bit, also my spec map is not the best, has patchy bits all over the place, needs to be a bit more uniform.

GArriola83: Hey thank you! :buttrock: Sure, ill do something similar , like a quick tutorial for the MR shader, and post it here just for you. Give me a couple days lol.

03-25-2008, 01:42 PM
:buttrock: Woah, i havent updated in a long time...

Sorry guys ive neglected the crap out of this page as it happens.

Crunch time at work :eek:

I wont have any time to finish my dominance war entry - so i decided to just build her head.

Il throw it up here for all to critique please...


I havent gotten to rendering her yet, this is a screengrab from my zbrush viewport - though ive painted in a couple of highlights on her eyeballs ( until i get a proper render going in max )

anyhoo - back to work :sad: let me know what you guys think!


03-25-2008, 07:08 PM
The eyes are problematic for me. There is too much white on the outer sides and they seem too long there from the side view. The pink fleshy area near the tear duct is way too small as well.

The general shape around the eye, mostly the eyelids could use some work. At the moment the creases above the eyes just look like they have been etched in. The eyelids in general should have more volume and weight and almost hang on the top of the eyeball. The lowers also look too thin.

The shape of the ear is kinda strange as well - looks a tad pointy and the lobe looks a bit sharp.

Anyway, looks good otherwise.


03-25-2008, 09:55 PM
mindrot: Wow! thanks for the valuable advice man, ill get into investigating those as soon as i get home from work - seriously thanks alot :D I agree with all of your points, i ought to show you more of my work you eagle eye. :thumbsup:

03-25-2008, 11:39 PM
No worries... happy to help if I can :)

I'm glad to see that you're posting more work... keep it coming :thumbsup:


03-26-2008, 09:31 AM
WoW It's looking very cool.
You update your thread after long time?

Great work dude..

03-26-2008, 10:34 AM
mindrot: Will do, working on it right now!

DigitalPolycounter: Thanks man, thanks for stopping by again after all this time!

03-26-2008, 02:14 PM
update, overhaul on eye shape and added some thicnkess to bottom lid, the top lid still needs to be adjusted majorly will get to that tomorrow. also reduced the length of the side of the eye, will update again tomorrow showing a more finished 3/4 view.

Thanks so much mindrot for the critique, i feel like such a n00b to have missed those valuable things. :buttrock: Forgive me if i feel the urge to overlook, get straight onto the hair, learn and move onto my next head, and be sure that it contains these critiques.


Il darken her brows a little too... and reduce the bump on her nose, and add mor skin imprefections... argh the closer you get the further you are from finishing!

03-26-2008, 03:33 PM
keep working, interesting to see result.. ;)

03-26-2008, 11:40 PM
robomaniac: thanks man :D

03-27-2008, 07:17 AM
Hey Jon

Where is the pdf of your tutorial on SSS Skin shader?

I also follow your way which you told in earlier post and I get this result.
Check it out and see the full thread. Link is given in my signature ORC'S DAEMON

Sorry bro for the image.

03-27-2008, 08:37 AM
Digital Polycounter: Hey man thanks for stoppoing by again, ill have a look over your thread no problem, but could you possibly remove the image you posted. Sorry to be a pain but this is my folio thread lol. Cheers ! :thumbsup:

There is no PDF tutorial sorry about that, everything is there in page 3 of this thread as far as my setup goes...

03-27-2008, 03:50 PM
how about them eyes? eh? eh? just a quick tutorial, i still model out the inner eye and outer eye separately and i'd like to know how you did yours with mental ray. thanks, youre awesome

03-28-2008, 03:32 AM
GArriola83: Hey man, okay ill try to find some time to get something organised for you.
I know i used the same settings as my skin shader for the inner part of the eye, and i make up an HDR reflection map for a duplicate sphere thats a fraction larger than the original eye. but specifics will take me a little bit longer :)

03-28-2008, 10:40 AM
can you post some shots of current progress ??
interesting to see how things going

03-28-2008, 03:26 PM
I'd try scaling down the eye-balls, it's hard to tell without a see through but I think they're too big which makes for the problem with outer white area becoming too big and not looking real from all angles. but doing so without scaling down the eye-shape of the lids too much. make that fold more roundly around the smaller eye-ball.
mostly the size of the eye-balls is suprisingly small when you finally get to terms with it and manage realistic eyes. try poking yourself right over the lower eye-socket edge of your skull under the lower lid and see.. you can feel how the eye rounds off just below and if you sort of grab your eye-ball at the inner and outer edges of the lids it'll probably feel almost like you've grabbed your eye-ball at it's sides :U so you'll see the endpoints of the lid-shape really are close to the lateral poles of the eye :U much more than you usually think before you realise it. atleast that was my ohshit experience quite recently which was a large and late thinking-in-2D barrier to break down :)
also a bit more of the tear-canal thing and slightly more thickness to lids still as pointed out by mindrot.
the lashes, are they supposed to be natural or extended, styled? otherwise they're very long and their length curve from inner to outer corner (EDIT -is-)should be(/EDIT) more like ), not like 7 or ] like it sort of looks like in the render. hard to tell though. but too long at the outer end if natural anyways.
spam post is spam x) kutgw!

04-06-2008, 06:59 AM
Hair, i might add a braided pony tail hanging around to the front to the right side of her face...


Ive got to get onto a new piece now, using some new techniques.

robomaniac: Coming man... coming!

erik_j: Woah man thanks alot for taking the time to explain. Along with Mindrots comments and your own, its very clear to me that i need to work more on my eyes. Ill hopefully improove alot on my next sculpt. Thanks alot again! You guys rock :thumbsup:


04-07-2008, 09:56 AM
whoah nice look with hair on, man! :D great to hear you'll make more soon :) do post link to that thread in this one so I'm updated :)

04-08-2008, 10:18 AM
good work
imho: head looks too ideal, skin looks flat and boring... may be add some elements to make it look more unique, some disproportion or something so

04-08-2008, 11:42 AM
erik_j: Thanks man - which link are you referring too ?

robomaniac: Ok now i need to explain my whole plan! but firstly:

Thanks for the advice, thats exactly what I was going for, So good to hear those words. She was never meant to be an exploration into realism, more a fantastical and 'flawless' experiment without any use of photoreference in any facet of her creation.

She has been born from my mind, and although boring and plain maybe - i definately prefer not to give her face assymetry or more features that one would associate with any realistic womans face for the sole purpose that this would not be in line with what I wanted to achieve :)

I want you to notice that she looks too perfect, I want you to notice her skin is blemish free. I want you to notice that her eyelashes look exxagerated for the purpose of enhancing the shape of her eyes and her appeal, and so on and so on.

And in all honesty, I dont believe I have achieved this, still a LONNNNGG way to go, but i gave it a good crack and will be back to give it another shot again soon!


I believe there are far too many photorealistic representations nowadays in games, and far too little extractions of an artists mind when exploring the subject.

My next piece will be a male and this piece will be an exploration into this highly photoreal angle that everything seems to be going.

After which i plan on creating a combination of these 2 and injecting 'character' into them rather than simply 'perfect' or 'real' but something that you could look at, and identify with.

A character face that tells a story, shows his or her personality and hopefully expresses their purpose in a game, whether they are good, evil, shifty or shadey, and have every single facet of that face to reflect that single raw purpose.

The Hair style, hair colour, eye shape, wrinkles, nose shape, brow depth, smirk / smile, stubble or makeup. I really want to get right inside what it means to create a 'character'.

If the character was sneaky, how would he or she comb her hair ? what colour would she die her hair ? Would she tuck it behind one ear ? would she pluck her eyebrows ? what type of earings would she wear ? what type of facial hair would he grow ? I want ot understand the character on this level before i start out.

Something which i believe im a very long way short of accomplishing, and actually something in my oppinion many, many games and many artists touting 'realism' are far far short of doing nowadays.

Hmmm maybe a bit deep and political, but there you have it!

04-09-2008, 11:11 AM
cool! I'm definately supporting those views after reading that! :) (and oh I realised just now this is still your dump thread and new stuff will be posted here too, forgot that.)

I too find that it sort of defeats the purpouse of breathing life into a new, fantasised character if you heavily ref off of photos (loomis' anatomy pages are ever so sufficient :)).

to me it seems alot more important, for becoming someone who just tweaks forth a living character that reeks in character, to just work work work from your mind in 2D and 3D and while you're not doing that, as another thing, be observant of life, people and characteristics like someone who would stare someone down and excuse yourself when confronted with "oh sorry, just that your lower facial musculature is too intriguing!" (it's also a fun way to introduce yourself at a party if you're usually bad at taking social initiatives) :P
getting used to overly obsessing over characteristics as if they're triforce shards or the bones of dracula :P
it's like.. modelling a human figure is one thing.. conceiving strong character is another.. :V7
it's like, the actor is a 100% realistic human figure but has even comparedly not that much character in his own; while when he's made up as jack sparrow he's full of it... and mainly not thanks to realism... :/

and like your avatar, japanese CG is often very smooth and textureless (no orange peel skin or realistic faceal blemishes, moles, no realistic hair etc etc) but mostly achieve a greater sense of character still.
putting such a constraint for the challenge of it probably forces you to succeed more in terms of character than realism :U7

I've had a similar sort of project with a character with which I've wanted to dig out and refactor the element of beauty and elegance without getting a smaller amount of it for free through heavy realism. (not saying real isn't "beautiful" in a sense).. haven't achieved it all yet either though.. I think I'm gonna do a similar thread myself inspired by yours soon :)

anyway, looking forward to updates! :)

04-09-2008, 12:00 PM
erik_j: Man, youve got it in one. :thumbsup: 100% exactly what im meaning. Your reference to Jack Sparrow, I honestly could not have put it any better.

Your thoughts seem to be very similar to my own - great to feel im not alone!

You know what ? i cant wait for your thread to appear - please drop me a mail when you do start it, id be really interested to see how you go with it as well :)


04-10-2008, 10:48 AM
ok, i understand your position, good point to me to rethink my texturing style

04-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Hi bro.
You didn't replied on my thread. I posted all maps there.
I am wating :(

04-13-2008, 01:01 PM

A quick sculpt more for practise than anything else wasnt sure what it was going to be when i started - approx 1 hour.

04-15-2008, 10:02 AM
Okay, Starting the heavy photoreferenced male head tonight - this will be a realtime head mesh similar to what someone might find in Gears of War, or Crysis. Not very exciting or 'Artistic' but thats ok, its not my purpose.

Am posting a step by step process as to how im going to tackle this to try and clarify my thought processes as well LOL hopefully someone out there benefits also.

Step 1: Decide that im only building a head and neck & prepare my basemesh.


My base mesh weighs in at around 1200 tris at the moment, but i think ill be adding a few more cuts here and there maybe to round things out a bit more, especially on the silhouette. There are no eyeballs, or teeth & tongue yet, tho ive got a mouth sock.

A note, I've decided to make my base mesh contain some semi decent topology for some kind of facial animation rig. And also he's purposefully void of any characteristics or distinguishing forms of ANYTHING really ill be pushing this face around to match some photos very shortly however.
Tally ho! :beer:

04-15-2008, 11:24 AM
Step 2: Head over to 3d.sk and grab a head that i want to use. I decided to make a young guy instead of generic tough guy, or old man with lotsa wrinkles.

I will grab a front, 3/4 and side view at this stage, and ill make note of the size of the image.
Ill make 2 planes in my max viewport equal to the size of the image. One for the front view and one for the side view, and place them accordingly.


Note: I needed to do some image adjustments in photoshop prior to this to ensure the front and side view matched up ( i picked the main features to match up, such as chin, nose, brow, eyes, ears etc etc ) You dont need to do this, as you can just move the reference planes or scale them to make ammends for the images not lining up. Im just an anal bastard so i like to have everything nice and neat before hand :P

Ill grab my base mesh head and plonk it in the middle, and scale it so it roughly fits in both the front and side views. the chin and nose area are a bit off, but thats okay, im not trying to line anything up just at this stage.
Im ready to start the first part of modelling! :beer:

04-16-2008, 01:41 PM
Step 3: The first thing ill do here is delete one half of my head mesh. This is just so i can easily see through to the picture underneath when using transparency, and not have to worry about selecting duplicate verts etc. Ill fixup all the non symmetrical aspects at a later stage.


This first step, all im looking to do with my base mesh here is to roughly match up ONLY the outer silhouette, from the front and left views. Im not looking at the eye position or how far deep set the nose and eyes are into the skull etc etc, though i will line up the ear in the side view at this point in time.

Note: Topology gets a bit freaked out at this stage, but i'll come back and fix it up later. And also im completely ignoring anything to do with the hair - thatll come much later.

2nd and important note, i wasnt happy with my first choice of side profile. Ive since updated it with a shot that was more neutrally posed instead of the earlier one which containe very little lip to chin curvature due to a slight expression at the time of the shot.

Next step soon... :buttrock:

04-17-2008, 08:33 AM
omg, nice progress, keep it going, VERY interesting to look how you think about each step, that what most of the tutorials and artists dont have at their tutorials or wip threads...

04-17-2008, 01:17 PM
robomaniac: Thanks man, I hope its helpful to someone!

Step 4: This is where I start playing a bit more with the head as a whole, I start to flesh out the whole nose and brow in front and side view, tweak the shape of the mouth to more or less fit and I'll also position the eye and eyelids to more or less match the reference.


Ill mirror my half over to get a feel for the whole head in perspective view. Here, Ill also loosely start working in perspective view fleshing out all the depths, while cross checking with my 3/4 photo. This is purely an eyeballing excersize, I wont setup the 3/4 image in my viewport, but instead push and pull areas in and out until im generally pleased with where they are sitting, and with what the head looks like when i rotate all around the face in perspective view.

Im still not being critical here about lining things up exactly - the reason will be revealed in the next step in which I need to give credit to Guillaume, for giving me some valuable tips on camera mapping. Cheers Buddy - huge help :D :bowdown:

Note: Im still not worried about any assymetry features of this guys head.

Ill hopefully be able to get alot of this tutorial completed this weekend.

Tally ho!

04-18-2008, 12:41 PM
Step 5: Ive added a camera map to the face, capturing the front view only and started to push the general features around to match the photo, so the assymetry of the eyes, brow and nose are more or less matched up at this point. I also moved the mouth around.


I havent yet gone into detail about matching things up perfectly, I will do this in my next step. Im also about to start cutting extra pollies into the mesh to help get things lining up clearer.

Note: This is the first time I've used this method to build and texture a head, and ive run into a few valuable insights into the actual projection of the image. If you dont have the camera details to enter into your camera settings in max - it can be quite a task to fiddle around until you get the photo matching up to your model, but a necessity unfortunately. Keep playing until you get it about right.

I know the texture goes all stretched and wonky on the sides, and its a little bit off-putting and can give you the wrong impression easily as the projection tapers off as your model curves. Dont be fooled into puffing out your model to compensate some of the stretching! Know that you roughly worked out the model based on the front and side views, and roughly fleshed it out in the 3/4 view before getting to this point, and TRUST it!

Ill work much more on the 3/4 view after this front view is done, and ultimately look alot closer at the head as a whole in perspective view.

04-20-2008, 07:42 AM
Step 6: Using the camera map, I've tweaked the face and made some extra cuts where I thought necessary to put a little more detail. All of the assymetrical detail is now completed. And I have pretty much got the face to a point where im happy to move on.


I've unwrapped the head leaving no seams except running down the back of the face and the ears. I prefer this kind of face UVW.

I render to texture the camera mapping, and use my 3/4 shot and my side view shot to work on the texture in photoshop. I could have setup a 3/4 camera and a side view camera and done the same thing, but Im thinking that I could probably do the texture work in Photoshop quicker.

Ive also started balancing out the tones and contrasts one side of the face, as the photos from 3d.sk contain alot of light information that I dont want. Also I desaturate the photos quite alot and use the patch tool in some places where its needed ( Thanks Guillaume!! ) I work with 100% self illumination and white ambience so there is no extra shading provided by 3dsmax.

Im still not paying much attention to the hair of the character, Ill get to that shortly - though its only going to be very simple - no alpha'd planes ill save the hair experiments for another model.

I should be able to have this head textured and finished by the next step - for those interested I've only spent roughly 3 hours on this head so far.

04-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Step 7: Ive pretty much completed the head texture, removed almost all of the lighting information from the photos and balanced out the tones and saturation levels.


Ive also tweaked the head in a few more places, and roughly got the hair in order. ( told you it would be simple lol )

He looks a little bit like some cheesy guy out of the movie grease, but so be it! :buttrock:

Ive removed the eyeballs as I will add those in shortly.

Note: Ive built and textured the 'realtime' head before building a high poly head sculpture in Zbrush specifically because the realtime version is the thing that matters more than some fancy zbrush sculpt. So in total agreeance again with Guillaume who I cant thank enough for showing me this method, I will build a high poly version in Zbrush using this low poly and texture.

This will help ensure that all of my high poly details line up exactly to the detail on the texture, thus giving me a great normal map.

04-20-2008, 09:48 PM
Hey there, awesome work! :thumbsup: Really learned a lot about the texturing workflow, hope you have many more updates remaining for teaching people like me ;)! I do have a few questions for you though, they came up while reading the newest update.

Why don't you take your base mesh into ZBrush right away instead of near the end? It seems much easier and organic than shifting around points since you can actually 'sculpt' the low-res real-time mesh. It's how I work anyway, I think it just feels more natural. Just want to get your opinion :scream:

And the second one; how did you create your base head mesh? Just free-hand poly extruding or using image planes as well? I'm trying to establish a workflow of my own, could you give me a few tips on that one as well if you have any?

04-21-2008, 01:49 AM
hey man, some really great work in this thread. I love the skin shader.. speachless really... one thing though.. did you notice that the majority of your characters are frowning? Just an observation.. Great work man, im looking forward to updates

04-21-2008, 03:08 AM
Stefander: Thanks for stopping by, I hope this is useful for some people - im learning a fair bit as I go along as well! In answer to your first question. I prefer to do all of my quick tweaking inside max - i guess its purely a preference really no reason why you couldnt, but the main reason I wanted to do everything in max was to use the camera projection method here.

My base mesh was built out of a box pretty much hah! Inside max as well.

kmanning: Hey man, thanks alot for stopping by! You know what, your absolutely right haha! :bowdown: I shall have to see about fixing the constant frownage!! I checked out your personal forum as well dude, I'd love to join if youll let me, looks like you have a nice little community going on there!

Once I get home from work tonight ill post up the next step for this character.

04-21-2008, 10:19 AM
Step 8: Export my textured Low poly into zbrush, subdivide and start to sculpt in the characteristics of this guys face. Luckily for me, this guys face is relatively 'uninteresting' and 'flat' compared to many of the others. So it shouldnt really take me along time to get this high ready for normal mapping.

Ill import the file into zbrush, subdivide it about 4 - 5 times, then go back to the second subdiv and start working my way up to the highest subdiv - i like working like this as i can quickly slide through the levels of detail and either work up really high or back down low, whatever works out quickest for any paticular task.

Ill also constantly turn my texture on and off for reference - and to check im bringing out the right details.


Now that I've done this, I can see I probably should have capped the eyes before I started. Though thats not too much of a problem, I can fix that up later as the eyeballs will be a seperate mesh anyway. Also I wont be sculpting and hair details for this guy, I'm just going to leave it fairly bog standard! Heres an update of where im at so far.

When I get done ill show a comparison of his with and without the texture applied.

Onward, brave soldier. :buttrock:

04-21-2008, 12:42 PM
One thing I wanted to quickly mention was the fact that I for one, really prefer sculpting the detail of the ears, to match up exactly to the texture thats going to be on the final realtime mesh.

I think ears are all to often forgotten, not enough ear love! you only need to look back on many games, even the medals of honor, and the calls of duties to see that the ears where kinda a skin colour mass, rather than actual ears.

I realise though that they arent that important to the sucess of a game - but I just thought I would add this musing to my 'journal' as such.

I for one, plan to use this method for every 'photo referenced' style ear from this day forward!

04-21-2008, 12:58 PM
Step 9: I've taken the high to a certain level of detail where I'm ready to see how it's looking on the realtime mesh. I'll export the high, back into max for normal mapping something I'm not all that used to doing, but just for the hell of it, would do it this time to keep the ol' max normal mapping skills fresh.

I'll render out a quick normal map and throw that onto my realtime mesh, and enable the default realtime direct x normal map shader that ships with max.


I'll whack my diffuse map on to it as well, and I've created a simple specular map just to give some small level of control to the specular.


As you can see, it's a fairly quick and simple sculpt - and this early application lets me identify some areas that arent translating so well. I need to work a bit more on the cheekbones and I think the nose could be a bit better than it is.

These are realtime viewport screenshots with a simple 3 light omni setup.

I'm not fussed about any skin shaders or anything at this point, as I'm really only worried about strangeness in the relationship of the normal map and the realtime mesh.

I'll go back to my high poly and work a bit more on a few areas...paticularly the nose, mouth, ears and cheekbones, as I'm not really all that happy with them.

Even though I've done this process many times, I'm still learning new little things here and there, and im always learning new things about anatomy and the modelling of humanoids. And I'm enjoying rambling here in hope that it means something to someone other than myself lol!

04-22-2008, 07:40 AM
omg! what a progress, i am waiting next post to see more.. MORE and MORE... dont even mind to sTOP this thread...

04-22-2008, 02:03 PM
Step 10: I've done some more work on the high, specifically the ears, cheekbones and some additional work around the eyes. I've also re-normal mapped, and done some more balancing work on the texture.


Ive realised that the nostril texture is not quite working for me so I'll have to go back and edit that. It's just to pointy on HIS left side.

Anyway this is where it stands as of tonight. I plan on getting his eyes in there next, and then I'll work on a decent specular map, an SSS layer and get a proper skin shader going for him.

All up I have spent about 7 hours to this point, including all the time im taking for anyone whose interested.

Robomaniac: Thanks for the encouragment man, I dont plan on stopping this thread.. :buttrock:

04-23-2008, 09:47 AM
awesome thread chapter :) watching with great interest!

04-23-2008, 01:37 PM
Step 11: Ive worked a bit on the specular map tonight got it to a fairly acceptable level. And also worked on a Mental Ray Shader for comparison to the standard realtime max shader.


I guess there is quite alot of difference here, but im sure i could,with a little bit of work setting up a realtime skin shader in UE3, match the Mental Ray shader in a realtime environment. But I'll leave that challenge for another time.

Ill add some eyes lastly to this guy and make up a nice final presentation tomorrow - then move on to a bigger challenge!.

Tally ho! :D

Erik_J: Thanks man, I'm glad your still watching!

04-23-2008, 02:31 PM
Simply amazing I mean what else can you say. The amount of detail in the skin is unbelievable and the hair is just awesome. Keep up the great work.:applause:

04-24-2008, 06:32 AM
Ramza: Thanks man, i hope the eyes can add to the realism. I will hopefully add those tonight.

04-25-2008, 07:19 AM
Step 12: Im pretty much done now, I need to start something new. Ive made a few tweaks here and there on various maps just to find the right kind of balance that I was looking for.


I need to study lighting and rendering a bit more, I know these arent the best setups I've got going on here. But hopefully I'll tackle that in coming weeks.

As a last note, I spent a fair bit of time even after all of the maps etc where completed just tweeaking bits and pieces here and there, I adjusted the size of the eyes, and his mouth and also the cheekbones and eyebrows some more in the mesh.

Im glad I started using the camera mapping method - I learnt alot about the human face.

Next up im going to try my hand at making a more "game character" style of bust, combining this method above and the previous method used for creating the female sculpt i did.

Heres hoping I can come up with something decent! Thanks for watching! If anyone has any Q's feel free to ask!


04-26-2008, 03:20 AM
Amazing work, Hazardous, really just terrific.

I have a couple of questions, about going back and forth between max and zbrush. I only know the very, very basics of zbrush, and I've been getting some contracdicting advice from some of the people I know who use it a bit more.

First question: Is it possible to keep straight edges on your model when you bring it into zbrush? From what I understand, subdividing your mesh to sculpt detail is like using meshsmooth in max -- it makes everything go sort of blobby. What if you want to keep a surface like the sole of a boot, of the side of a box? Do you have to sort of pull it back out manually?

Second question: Can you work with a model that has only one side for its low-poly version, like a cape or a flag? Sort of overlaps with the first question.

Thanks in advance for your patience.

04-26-2008, 05:43 AM
carlg: Thanks man, im glad you like it :)

In answer to your questions:

1) I really would approach this in a simple fashion. When your modelling in max, and you want to meshsmooth something, what do you do if you want to make an edge sharp ? theres a couple of ways, you could use smooth groups to keep an edge sharp OR you could select the edge you want to keep it sharp and chamfer it, adding duplicate edges but keeping them close together.

If it were me, and i wanted to keep an edge sharp once i got it into zbrush, I'd duplicate my mesh ( keeping the original aside ) and spend 5 min going over the duplicate mesh chamfering edges before i export and import to zbrush. :buttrock:

2) Sure you can :applause: just again, if you want to keep the size similar when you subdivide, you might want to add a few extra edges around the border.

The other way if you dont want to chamfer anything, is to turn off the smoothing option when you subdivide in zbrush. It only does a good job on a few things, of course you could use masks and extrude sharp edges out.

But honestly, like everything I do, I try to tackle it in the simplest way I possibly can, using no fancy methods.

I hope that helps! Let me know how you go!

04-26-2008, 02:27 PM
Thanks, I really appreciate it.:)

04-27-2008, 10:58 AM
If there are any concept artists out there that want to do some kind of Collaboration with me on this ( remaining faithful to the descriptions in the monster manual ) I'd be massively appreciative - and im sure the descriptions would challenge your 2d skills as well. Send me a private message!

Ok, I'm going to unleash the geek in me and dig out the D&D monster manual 3.5.

Ill try to keep up as much as I can. I chose the D&D monster manual because the world has alot of everything, from robot like constructs, all the way to mimic's ( treasure chests with arms and teeth ) so it should be a good skill building excersize for me.

I plan to really focus on making top quality game characters.

The descriptions are from the monster manual 3.5.

Aasimar ( PlaneTouched ):

Graced with a touch of the holy, aasimars are usually tall, good-looking, and generally pleasant. Some have a minor physical trait suggesting their heritage, such as silver hair, golden eyes or an unnaturally intense stare.

Aasimars looks like a beautiful humans, with calm, serene features and an inner radiance that shines from their faces.

They fight against evil causes and attempt to sway others to do the right thing. Occasionally they take on the vengeful, judgemental aspects of thier celestial ancestor, but this is rare.

They are rarely found in leadership positions and often live as loners due to their absolute dedication to goodness. Others are less fanatical and fit seamlessly into normal human society.

Aasimars usually like a fair, straightforward contest. Against a particularly evil foe, however, they fight with utter conviction and to the death.

I will create a Male Aasimar Paladin. :scream:

05-01-2008, 02:07 PM
This is great dude! Awesome research here! Keep it up!

05-11-2008, 06:52 AM
Malanjo: Hey thanks for taking a look and the nice comment!

I spent a wee while bashing out my base model for the aasimar, I gathered a fair bit of reference material that i could find around the place.

Im going to go for a fairly stylised aasimar, a little more cartoonish than realistic.


He will have armour, and a massive 2 Handed sword. Ive given him fully articulated fingers because i intend to rig and pose this model ( something ive never EVER done ) Its time to start learning !!!

05-15-2008, 03:12 AM
Sounds like an interesting project, and if it turns out anything like your other stuff on this thread it should be great.

Just a quick question: I don't know much at all about Dungeons and Dragons http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon11.gif, so I Googled "Aasimar" and each pic looked pretty different. Would you mind posting 1 or 2 or your references so we all know what it's supposed to end up as?

PS: good luck with the rigging, I've always found it a bit of an ordeal myself.

05-15-2008, 10:41 AM
carlg: Thanks for stopping by man!

To be honest im taking a strange approach, using the description and words only in the book to come up with my own interpretation of what I think the character is.

I will take inspiration and reference images ( actually like the ones found in google ) and kind of massage something together in a more artistic approach.

The reason for this, is because since i started working in this industry ive almost ALWAYS had to work to strict concepts / model sheets etc, and i think over the years its dulled my artistic side more than i would have liked. I think the best way for me to get out of this is to get an idea of what I want in my head, and more or less massage away until I get what im looking for ! Perhaps its difficult to explain, but i really want to try and bring out the character first, in my way, my style in this piece of work.

I hope that makes sense ? Im replying from work, not much time to work on this until i hit the weekend, but should be able to get some major updates done!


05-27-2008, 12:04 PM
Sloooowww progress, with deadline at work approaching.

Doodled around for an hour tonight, added some armour, though I'm not quite sold on this direction yet.

Will need to rethink the design paticularly on the chestplate here. Though Ive got a good idea for his big sword and shield.

At this stage i'm still playing with some fairly basic shapes before I even think about zbrush.


Now that I look at it, I dont like the shape of the thighs in the 3/4 angles. needs to be a bit puffed up. Im going for a kind of layered fantasy plate armour - with a bit of a comical edge with the proportions and flared bits.

Hes around 2200 tris, with heaps of double layers and wasted poly that will need to be cleaned up once im happy with the shape, I'm not concerned at this stage with polycount etc as this is kind of my concept stage. Comments and feedback always welcome.

Also as a note, I often get asked about why I do this stage of modelling at all, its basically because the way I approach character design when all I recieve is a paragraph description, is with the most simplistic shapes in mind.

This is equivalent to the concept artists thumbnailing stage. Ill muck around at this stage producing a fair few ideas and shapes that excite or grab me, with as few polygons as I need to find something im after. It doesnt take very long to do a whole bunch of these once you have your basic guy built up underneath.

If i can produce an engaging design, and interesting silhouette with just a few polys to begin with. I think im well on my way. If it takes you thousands and thousands of polys to create a good character, I think you need to rethink your designs.

The best example is, if you take an awesome concepted character. And with 1000 poly try to capture the essence, and suceed, then the design is probably a good one. If your having trouble capturing that essence with so few polies, then perhaps there are too many focal points, too many details and a far too busy silhouette.
Anyway, enough musings! Tally ho! :beer:

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05-27-2008, 12:04 PM
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