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gra4mac
04-02-2003, 01:08 AM
I sent my project with the wacky decals to Steve and he says the cause must be my graphcs card. The oringinal post is here: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53274
How do I test my card, an ATI rage 128 in a Mac G4/400, OS 9.2.2, to be sure. I don't have any problems in any other graphics app, of course. Does anyone else have the same setup? Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers, Graham

JTalbotski
04-02-2003, 01:29 AM
Graham,

It may be a matter of getting the latest driver for your card. Check ATI's web site. I know it has helped some others I suggested this to (for other problems).

Jim

My Fault
04-02-2003, 01:38 AM
Yeah, ATI has a well desrved rep for their cruddy drivers (supposedly they are getting better but I'll believe that when I see it) so definitely try updating them drivers to the latest/greatest.

Not being a mac user myself, what kind of choices do you guys have for graphics cards? Just curious....

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 01:54 AM
I updated my driver and there is no difference, the decals are still wacky. I've been wanting to get an Nvidai card, but I hadn't planned onupgrading just yet, and I want to make sure the ATI card is the problem first. This is my answer to Steve.

Thanks for checking it out Steve. Out of curiosity, I loaded v 10.0k onto the Imac, it has the same ATI card as my G4. The weird decal warp is still there. I find it hard to beleive that both cards are fualty, which leads me to believe there is a problem with A:Ms Opengl.

Cheers, Graham

> From: Hash Tech Support <support@hash.com>
> Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:02:22 -0800
> To: Graham Clark <graham_clark@telus.net>
> Subject: Re: Weid decals in 10.0k
>
> I see none of the distortion you are referring to on any of my
> machines, unfortunately this would lead me to believe it's video card
> related, for which there is little we can do...


What else can I do?

Cheers, Graham

My Fault
04-02-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Graham Clark
Thanks for checking it out Steve. Out of curiosity, I loaded v 10.0k onto the Imac, it has the same ATI card as my G4. The weird decal warp is still there. I find it hard to beleive that both cards are fualty, which leads me to believe there is a problem with A:Ms Opengl.

Cheers, Graham


Graham, so if both computers have the same graphics card and they both have the same problems, then that does sound like it is the graphics card. I don't think Steve is saying that your one graphics card is broke, but that the problem is that that line of graphics cards are the issue. ATI cards have handled OpenGL poorly for ever and a day. They are very well known for their cruddy OpenGl support (though once again, I've being told that their new cards and drivers have improved)

Maybe you can find another Mac user who has a different graphics card and send them your file and have them check it out. Then maybe you can get to the bottom of this.

JTalbotski
04-02-2003, 02:07 AM
Graham,
I have a Nvidia card in my G4 and haven't seen the kind of issues you are seeing. I can check your file on my system and see if it still has the decal problem.

Jim

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 05:26 AM
Hi Jim. If you want to try it out, the zipped prj is here: http://www3.telus.net/imagestreamstudio/
called "Main floor project.zip"
I expect you won't find a problem, but I'd like to hear how it looks. I figure the problem will be solved in the next update or so. I went through this with v9.x.

Cheers, Graham

JTalbotski
04-02-2003, 02:08 PM
Hey Graham,

I put up a couple pics of how it displayed on my system. Like you expected, there didn't seem to be any problem with the decals. Go here:

http://homepage.mac.com/talbotj/PhotoAlbum9.html

I like to think my models are small in patchcount, but your model makes mine seem overly dense!

Are you using dual monitors on your G4 by the way. I heard that the Mac has problems displaying OpenGL on two monitors at a time, unless they are run by separate cards. Just a thought.

Jim

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 02:38 PM
Thanks Jim. Actually, the grill on the fireplace in the realtime image you posted is warped just like om my machine. The door on mine was clearly warped. If you have the time, could you put up a close shot of the door? I should think it would be quicker to post it here than on your ipages. Even with the size limit here, a close shot of the door will show enough to tell.

I was wondering, your ipages site looks different from mine, is there some info somewhere on how to cutomizes them? I stopped using mine a while ago, because I had so much trouble connecting and editing my pages, and it kept adding and doubling pages.

Cheers, Graham

My Fault
04-02-2003, 03:18 PM
I grabbed your file too Graham to see how it looked on my PC. I noticed that as I played with the real time patch density (from lowest to highest) I could get the warp to go away. At lowest patch density there was no warp, when I went up one (Page Up on the PC, not sure what the command is on a Mac) the warping showed up. When I went up again, the warp disappeared.

Curious if that does anything for you.

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 03:43 PM
And the prize goes to My Fault. :applause: Yes, changing the patch density makes the decal warping come and go. Using the page up and down works on the Mac too, looks weird watching the decal dance around. I'll have to send this off to Steve. I'm sure he'll be very releived.

Cheers, Graham

My Fault
04-02-2003, 03:54 PM
Cool! :thumbsup:

That is pretty odd huh? Time for Steve to put on his bug squashing boots!

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 06:33 PM
Jim, thanks again for having a look at my prj. I noticed you are running A:M in OSX. How is that going? I haven't tried it since v 9.

Cheers, Graham

JoeCosman
04-02-2003, 06:39 PM
this is called texture correction, and yes, it is handled by the video card.

ATI has, like everyone else, great routines for keeping textures aligned, unfortunately, much of this is hidden in the DirectX and openGL implementations, and it has to be called specifically.

I dont think the programmers at hash are going to make custom code for every video Card in the software any time soon. it eats into their development time. if texture shows up, they're done coding that bit.

John carmack doesn't mind doing this though. the Doom3 engine has card-specific code that gets activated depending on the user hardware setup.

so...it can't hurt to get a Geforce card, but I wouldn't fret about texture alignment in realtime.

JTalbotski
04-02-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Graham Clark
Jim, thanks again for having a look at my prj. I noticed you are running A:M in OSX. How is that going? I haven't tried it since v 9.

Cheers, Graham

Graham,

I am using the v10.5 alphas in OSX Classic mode and in OS9. It runs just as well in each, except if there's a BAD crash, I don't have to restart my whole system when I'm using Classic. The only drawback in Classic is bones mode is VERY slow. Actually, I haven't tried it with bones lately. I'll have to check to see if there are any improvements. Glad to see your problem was solved.

Jim

gra4mac
04-02-2003, 07:00 PM
Thanks Joe. It's always nice to learn something about how things work. Now that I now the work around, the textuure warp is not a problem, but having unwarped decals make lining them up easier. I still have a bit to learn about that.

Cheers, Graham

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