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Quadart
08-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Iím going to give this one a go with a Kudu.
Hereís a reference image and a couple of initial cage WIP shots. The horns are still detached.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kudurefwip.jpg

I decided to model the Kudu with its hind legs up. This will be a running /charging pose.
Since I am going to do the detailing in ZB 2 and will not have the luxury of the posing feature of ZB3 I will keep my modeling pose symmetrical and as close to the final pose as possible to keep rigged manipulation of the mesh to a minimal. I will finish tweaking the cage in Cinema 4D and then take into Modo for more tweaks then bring it back to C4D to UV skin (via BodyPaint) and then off to ZB2 (with functional ZAppLink). Iíll do most of the mat painting in PS. The Hair will be done with C4Dís Hair.

That's the plan anyway. I hope I can make it that far with the looming deadline.

dnphilo
08-28-2007, 10:24 PM
I was close to modeling a kudu as well. Looking forward in seeing what you come up with, seeing that you did a pretty good job with that horse.

Quadart
08-29-2007, 04:10 PM
Hereís the cage (from Modo in C4D), ready for ZB2 sculpting.
Iím a ZB3/OSX holdout.:sad:

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuducage.jpg

Iíve decided to use the ZB AUVs to maximize the resolution of my 4096 x 4096 tex field real-estate. Iíll use a combo of Zapplink and Bobypaints Projection Painting to do the mats on this one. The Kudu is pretty dull in coloration anyway.

Quadart
08-30-2007, 08:03 PM
dnphiloóI was checking out the ibex too.

Two steps forward, one back. I decided to pose the figure before the ZB work after all. I figure I can still use symmetry to sculpt most of it except the legs. NOW itís on to ZB.

Latest and last base mesh update.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuducage2.jpg

Airflow
08-30-2007, 08:49 PM
Nice going buddy, cant wait till you start detailing it in zbrush3.

Quadart
08-31-2007, 03:26 AM
AirflowóUnfortunately Iíll be using ZB2 instead of ZB3. Iím one of the few fools waiting for the OSX version of ZB3.

Hereís a shot of the first phase of ZB2 work. I spent more time on the head than anywhere else so far.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuduzb1.jpg

XTitan
08-31-2007, 08:34 AM
Great progress, are you going to keep the eye as it is or are you going to turn it into a socket and plop a sphere inside?

Oh and stop foolin around with ZB2 :P

TheRazorsEdge
08-31-2007, 08:58 AM
Looking excellent!:thumbsup:

The horns are perhaps a bit long in relation to the body?! On your ref shot they barely reach behind the shoulders. The neck could be a bit longer as well. Just my 2 cents! ;)

Quadart
08-31-2007, 07:03 PM
Great progress, are you going to keep the eye as it is or are you going to turn it into a socket and plop a sphere inside?

Oh and stop foolin around with ZB2 :P
Thanks. I am using the eye dome in the mesh now for reference to work the eyelids around. I will make sockets and add eyeball objects.

Yeah, Iím drooling over what Iím seeing from ZB3. ZB2 is like using a slide rule instead of a calculator (slight exaggeration :)). Iím planning on getting a MacPro by years end and will probably breakdown and put XP on it. Besides ZB3 thereís some PC only terrain generating software out there Iíd like to use also.



Looking excellent!:thumbsup:

The horns are perhaps a bit long in relation to the body?! On your ref shot they barely reach behind the shoulders. The neck could be a bit longer as well. Just my 2 cents! ;)
Thanks for the comments. I did make the horns a little long, though that perspective render exaggerates their size. Iím deciding whether to shorten them or just represent the Kudu with the worldís longest horns :). It seems the longer Kudu horns tend to spiral back upward into another revolution attempt as mine are (still too long maybe). Youíre right, the neck looks a bit short now. I also have to add more shoulder hump and lengthen the lower legs etc. Well, Iíve got lots of work to do.

These are additional renders of the same work. I'll have updates later today.
Thanks for the crits and comments.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuduzb2.jpg

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/ref2.jpg

TheRazorsEdge
09-01-2007, 10:24 AM
While your modeling and sculpt are very nice so far, I still think your overall proportions are off, especially after looking at the recent post of ref pics.

I would say the body and neck are too short, the head too big and the legs a tad too short, but you are probably fixing a number of these issues as I am writing this. :)

Anyways, just trying to help here. Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

Quadart
09-01-2007, 11:33 PM
@ TheRazorsEdge

Thanks. Your crits were on the mark.
I did work the areas you commented on and more. There's still have a ways to go.
I have to check and rework some of the muscle groups, detail the under-belly, work the hooves more, add alpha detail, etc. Oh yeah, and hair for the neck, back and tail.

Latest ZB sculpt update.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuduzb3.jpg

JoelOtron
09-02-2007, 03:55 AM
Incredible progress for such a short time frame.
Looking beautiful Bill. Cant wait to see what you can do with the c4d hair module.

pixelranger
09-02-2007, 11:28 PM
Wow, yeah. This is really gonna be great. Looks like you've really nailed the anatomy.

Quadart
09-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Thanks Joel and pixelranger.
Joel, hereís what Iíve done so far with Cinema 4Ds Hair module. The hair in the top image looks odd because the Kudu model is not receiving shadows for that render. I still have to work the hair and blend it more. It is also converted to mesh here as well. There's much work to do. Still have some hoof issues to iron out, pop some eyeballs in, add material and ground stuff.
óThe clock is ticking.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kuduzb4.jpg

TheRazorsEdge
09-07-2007, 06:40 AM
Excellent progress!:thumbsup:

I'd still have some minor proportional crits, but never mind them at this stage and this close to the deadline.

Keep doing what you are doing, I cant wait to see your endresult!

Quadart
09-07-2007, 11:28 AM
Excellent progress!:thumbsup:

I'd still have some minor proportional crits, but never mind them at this stage and this close to the deadline.

Keep doing what you are doing, I cant wait to see your endresult!
Thanks for the comments. Youíve got my curiosity peaked. What are your proportional crits? I still have a bit of tweaking and detailing to do anyway. I know the dew claws on the hindlegs are huge. I forgot to fix them before posting the last WIP images.

reedomatic01
09-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Wow, great work. The pose works very well with the subject, looks like he may pop right off of the stand.

keep it up

Quadart
09-08-2007, 06:10 PM
Here are a couple of mat WIPs. I was going to use photo refs for the mats to start but decided to go the purist route and create them from scratch. I have a Photoshop fur technique that helps speed the process along. Since the critter is pretty flat, side on, I painted the symmetrical aspect of the side neck and face then laid it in using Zapplink. Thereís lots to go. I have lots of detailing to do as well as creating specific mats for other channels to enhance realism. The neck back and tail hair mesh is not shown here. It will be textured separately

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/mat1.jpg

KrakenCMT
09-08-2007, 08:06 PM
Looking very nice! Very well sculpted!

Quadart
09-09-2007, 04:52 AM
Thanks reedomatic and KrakenCMT. Hereís another WIP update with unpainted hair in place.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/mat2.jpg

JoelOtron
09-09-2007, 05:15 AM
Nice! Maybe some kicked up dust particles/soil via mograph or particle systems to enhance the sense of motion--or maybe thats breaking the rules...

TheRazorsEdge
09-09-2007, 06:22 AM
Excellent texture work there, Bill!:thumbsup:

Sorry for the delayed reply! Since you specifically asked for the details, here's what I noticed about the overall proportions in case photorealistic replication is your goal. First and foremost the head on your Kudu appears too large, which throws a number of things off.

I did a proportion-eval based on head lenght in PS and here's what I came up with using the side view in your post from 09-06-2007 and the bottom left hand image from your refs in the post from 08-31-2007:

Your Kudu: Overall length of the body nose to butt: approx. 5 heads
Length of the horns: approx. 2 1/2 heads
Length of fore legs hoof to top of spinal column: approx. 3 1/3 heads
Length of hind legs hoof to top of spinal column: approx. 3 1/6 heads

Kudu Ref: Overall length of the body nose to butt: approx. 5 2/3 heads
Length of the horns: approx. 2 1/5 heads
Length of fore legshoof to top of spinal column: approx. 3 4/5 heads
Length of hind legs hoof to top of spinal column: approx. 3 1/3 heads

If you would like, I can PM or upload the PS images with the lines etc on them.

Judging by overall body props and disregarding the horns, the current proportions make the animal IMHO look more like a large deer, which it basically is, but somewhat lacking the typical Kudu elongated body shape (with relatively small head and hips a lot lower than shoulder blade area), which I think the pose is possibly further exaggerating.

As said before, minor proportional crits, compared to the overall excellent quality of your work.

Other than that, keep up! It's really looking great!

XTitan
09-09-2007, 07:53 AM
Wow awesome work!

Quadart
09-09-2007, 01:33 PM
@TheRazorsEdge
Thanks for the measurement analysis info. I would like to see your image results.
I just made up several metric comps as well. I will be lengthening the legs a tad and stretching the torso a bit as well. I used some differing reference points for mine.
Thanks again for your work and fresh eye.

Nice! Maybe some kicked up dust particles/soil via mograph or particle systems to enhance the sense of motion--or maybe thats breaking the rules...
You read my mind.

Thanks everyone, for your comments.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/metrics.jpg

Quadart
09-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Here are some multiple views from ZB2. No modifications were done to these since the last model posts.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/views1.jpg

Yav
09-09-2007, 05:33 PM
Perfect model...I kinda like it more without the textures, as the detail and work you have put into it becomes much more evident.

Quadart
09-11-2007, 04:40 AM
Hereís another WIP shot. Iím almost done with the mat work. The eyes need work. The nose, hooves and horns need spec maps. The ground needs some stuff too.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kudu5.jpg

JoelOtron
09-11-2007, 05:01 AM
WOW! Keeps getting better

The fur along the back of the neck (mane) looks dead on--however the tufts of fur on the underside of its throat look kind of jagged. Maybe the splines are set to linear rather than soft.

Maybe a SSS luminance material for the ears would be nice, (even though in reality the light may not penetrate through the skin due t the thick fur on the outer back surface of the ear)

This really makes me want to dive into Zbrush
Now how do I stop time so I can put aside the work I HAVE to do...

Quadart
09-11-2007, 12:52 PM
WOW! Keeps getting better

The fur along the back of the neck (mane) looks dead on--however the tufts of fur on the underside of its throat look kind of jagged. Maybe the splines are set to linear rather than soft.

Maybe a SSS luminance material for the ears would be nice, (even though in reality the light may not penetrate through the skin due t the thick fur on the outer back surface of the ear)

This really makes me want to dive into Zbrush
Now how do I stop time so I can put aside the work I HAVE to do...
Thanks for the C&Cs.
After the fur was created with the Hair module and I was satisfied with it, I converted it to mesh to texture. Itís jagged because I forgot to activate the hypernurbs itís in for the last posted image. As far as ear SSS, I may do a little faux SSS via the luminance channel.
I will say painting directly on the mesh was a huge time hog, much more so than anticipated. I usually skin the object but in this case I wanted to maximize texture resolution. Next time Iíll stick with a conventional UV layout instead of using ZBís AUV tiles. Even if it takes all day to tweak the Uvs, itís worth the time saved.

jomuller11
09-11-2007, 02:07 PM
absolutly amazing, i love it!.....not too much to say, the real expert already told you!...good luck

RobertoOrtiz
09-11-2007, 10:53 PM
FYI
HCR MINI-Challenge #10: Animals in Motion:Post the Final (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=538887)-R

Quadart
09-13-2007, 12:27 PM
Here are a few more updates. Iím making some last minute decisions on the final image render. The model is finished and rendered in Cinema 4D using a displacement map on a base mesh at subdivision 4 (out of 6 max). Heavy mesh here. Lower poly meshes just didnít give me the resolution I wanted with the displacement map. Although, with the color material applied, I could have gone with a lower poly mesh since the color mat hides a lot.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/3qnomat1.jpg
http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/orthos1.jpg
http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/render1.jpg

H2
09-13-2007, 03:16 PM
excellent work man, v nice texturing!

Quadart
09-13-2007, 08:57 PM
Finally, the final image. Now Iíll see about a turntable spin.

Thanks again everyone for your C&Cs.

http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/finalsm.jpg

KrakenCMT
09-13-2007, 09:17 PM
Nicely done! And great texturing as well!

brutal85
09-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Yes. Very nice work.
Also textures are great.

Quadart
09-14-2007, 06:15 AM
Here's a basic spin animation of the Kudu.

TURNTABLE ANIMATION (http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/kudu1.mov)

morphius-ms
09-14-2007, 06:56 AM
Amazing work...

JoelOtron
09-14-2007, 01:13 PM
I work here with a guy who grew up on a preserve in South Africa. The first thing he said to me when I showed him your image was "Nice Kudu". I've actually never heard of a kudu tll this thread. So--I guess the likeness is pretty accurate. He was commenting that it was pretty dead on. Really excellent work there Bill.

pixelranger
09-14-2007, 01:25 PM
Congrats on an excellent finished piece. I love how it all came together with textures and fur and all. Very well done!!

animastur
09-14-2007, 02:53 PM
Excellent texture and modelled work. It remembers me to the best works of animal book's illustrations.

Quadart
09-14-2007, 03:38 PM
I work here with a guy who grew up on a preserve in South Africa. The first thing he said to me when I showed him your image was "Nice Kudu". I've actually never heard of a kudu tll this thread. So--I guess the likeness is pretty accurate. He was commenting that it was pretty dead on. Really excellent work there Bill.
That most have been fun growing up on a preserve.
There are some 90 species of antelope of which the Kudu is one, in the larger species class. Kudus are found in southern Africa predominantly. From what I've read, it is roughly the size (at the shoulder) and weight of the Wildebeest that we see on tv nature channels trekking, by the hundreds of thousands, on those long and arduous annual migration journeys.

Yav
09-14-2007, 03:47 PM
Clearly the winner of this challenge. How long did it take you to make this from start to finish?

Quadart
09-14-2007, 05:27 PM
How long did it take you to make this from start to finish?
Time? It took way too much time. :eek:
I keep meticulous time logs on every job I do for clients and have been doing this for years now. I did make an Excel log for this project but did not follow it after a while. I usually donít keep logs on personal projects because I spend a good amount of time experimenting with various approaches or learning software along the way. A personal project, such as this, is usually a push the envelop, play and learn process for me.
But to answer your question, I know I have more than 30 hours but less than 45 hours in this. Not including the 2+ hours I spent digging up reference material.
The method I regretfully choose to create the color was extremely slow and ate up most of the time. I prefer to work on a UV pelt map, where here I used Zbs projection master. This is also the first thing I textured 100% via ZB. I would not have gone this route if it were not for ZApplink and working in Photoshop in projection mode. Zaplink gave me more control but did not reduce time too significantly. The big problem was making constant global tweaks to colors and textures, and then doing it all over for a specular map, etc. I was going nuts after a while having to projection map the whole object section by section, countless times and being very careful not to destroy finished areas with stray colors. If I took the time to create a good UV skin, I could have finished the textures in no more than a long day, based on experience. Even if I cut up the UV map I could have fixed the seams using projection. I choose this method because I wanted to maximize resolution by using Zbs AUV tiles. I learned a big lesson here.
As far as the sculpt, I spent 9 hours on it. I did keep track of that. I just used the basic tools no alpha work. I find sculpting in ZB an astonishingly quick process. It always amazes me how quickly you can get things done. The lighting in Cinema 4D took a little time as well, even though itís a simple scene. I have lots of accent lights hovering around the 3/4 view I used for the final image.

Quadart
09-14-2007, 05:37 PM
@JoelD
I picked the Grater Kudu because they are lean, showing strong musculature, and have an interesting yet subtle coloration with short fur. I like the thin white stripes on just half of the body. Mammals that have distinctly differing coloration and patterns from front to back always put me in mind of recently extinct animals (or the imagined renditions of them) such as the Tasmanian Wolf. The Kudu also has those long spiraling horns. I thought the mane and neck hair would not be to much of a problem because it was cropped close to the centerline of the body and did not blend out to wide, but went from long to short abruptly.

Or did I pick the Kudu because all the other cool animals were taken already? :)

DennisVR
09-14-2007, 07:09 PM
amazing work, especially on the texturing. it feels alive!

Yav
09-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Well, 45 hours sounds like a very decent timeframe for what you have done. I hear you on the AUV tiles nightmare...clearly, having a good UV layout from your 3D app is the way to go. Paint the texture in Zbrush, save it as a jpg and fix the seams in photoshop...flawless :)

TheRazorsEdge
09-16-2007, 11:35 AM
No argument, excellent work overall! :thumbsup:

pixelranger
09-16-2007, 06:12 PM
I just gotta say, I really love the hooves. I didn't find much reference on them. Did you? Excellent sculpt and excellent model in general. Just throw a rig in there and it's ready for Turbosquid ;)

Quadart
09-16-2007, 09:34 PM
I just gotta say, I really love the hooves. I didn't find much reference on them. Did you? Excellent sculpt and excellent model in general. Just throw a rig in there and it's ready for Turbosquid ;)
Thanks. I found some reference on cloven hooves doing a search, but as you, not much. I referred to the hooves of a deer in my copy of ĎAn Atlas of Animal Anatomy for Artistsí by W. Ellenberger, et al. This is a great animal anatomy reference source showing orthographic muscle, skeletal, and skin views of a number of animals.

Since I used ZB2 for this and got a late start, I didnít model the Kudu with rigging or animation in mind and decided to sculpt it pre-posed. I would have started with a static symmetrical pose if I used ZB3 and were able to pose the mesh inside ZB3, where I could adjust the deformed muscles. I just wanted a sculpting base for this one. I used a subdivision level 4 (out of 6) mesh with a displacement map for the Cinema 4D renders. Itís very poly heavy. I have the option to use a lower res mesh but do not think it shows the detail level as well as the subd 4 mesh with the displacement map in C4D.
So, Turdosquid is out on this one.:)

shahabp
09-19-2007, 09:51 PM
five star from me for:
Most Accurate Likeness
I love your model and there are a couple of people around me that they never post on CGtalk(Not for a specific reason) but they had the same Idea.
good luck

WyattHarris
09-20-2007, 02:03 PM
Bill this is simply amazing. I wasn't following many posts during this challenge so when I saw your post in the final thread it was like :eek:. So very well done you should clearly be the winner.

If you don't mind divulging your procedures would you possibly describe your technique for the fur texture. That was exactly the effect I wanted to try but didn't have much success. If the answer is simply paint paint and paint some more than I know I need to put more effort to it :D.

Great job.

Quadart
09-20-2007, 02:28 PM
If you don't mind divulging your procedures would you possibly describe your technique for the fur texture. That was exactly the effect I wanted to try but didn't have much success. If the answer is simply paint paint and paint some more than I know I need to put more effort to it :D.

Great job.
Thanks for the compliments Wyatt, and everyone else.

As far as the fur, I will put together a tutorial soon. The overall effect is kind of soft but does the trick. It may not be the best approach but it is quick and works for me in most cases.
In brief, I basically create fur on separate Photoshop layers using a standard brush tool set to Dissolve with an opacity set to 10%-20%. I then use the Smudge Tool, set to 1%-5% strength and set to 100% Hardness. Use a large brush and try not to overlap too much when doing your one smudge passes. Then use the sharpen tool. I usually start with black dots on one layer and white dots on another layer then convert them to color using Selective Color. I desaturate the white (and black) because the sharpening can cause unwanted color to appear. This process still needs refining and takes lots of experimentation. I hope this helps so far. Iíll clarify everything in the tute along with pics.

Thanks again everyone for your comments.

WyattHarris
09-21-2007, 04:37 PM
Quick and dirty fur test (http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/geishacat.jpg)

Needs more cowbell, but I get the idea. Thanks, I'll experiment more with it later.

RobertoOrtiz
09-25-2007, 04:39 AM
Congratz!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/robertoortiz1/cgtalk/17.gif

modology
09-25-2007, 05:23 AM
I've put your name into my favourite 3D Artist!You are incredible!! Congratulation!!! I'm looking forward to your fur tutorial

Reyes
09-25-2007, 07:56 PM
Congratulations awesome work.Also looking forward to your fur tutorial

Quadart
09-25-2007, 08:54 PM
Quick and dirty fur test (http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/geishacat.jpg)

Needs more cowbell, but I get the idea. Thanks, I'll experiment more with it later.
Wyatt, for a test, thatís looking pretty good.
óó
Thanks everyone for your compliments. I'll try to get the short-fur tute together soon. It is pretty basic, take a look at Wyattharrisí ĎQuick and dirty fur testí in post #54. Itís based on my explanation in post #53 and looks good for a test run.

Here's a basic examlpe:
http://billmelvinart.com/client3/kudu/Fur.jpg

morphius-ms
09-26-2007, 02:30 AM
congratz on a job well done.

pixelranger
09-26-2007, 07:33 AM
Congratulations, Bill! Great entry and a well deserved winner!! :thumbsup:

TheRazorsEdge
09-26-2007, 05:32 PM
Congrats from me as well!:thumbsup:

RobertoOrtiz
09-26-2007, 07:18 PM
Ok guys time to talk
LESSONS LEARNED (Animals in Motion): Lets TalK! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=544040)
-R

Reyes
10-03-2007, 03:45 PM
how's that tutorial coming along?

CoreyJAvitar
10-04-2007, 02:56 AM
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooah. That's insane.

Voigtlander
10-08-2007, 11:35 PM
Stunning work Bill! You have such a great body of work in your portfolio and this makes a beautiful addition to that museum of yours. Congrats!

speakerwizard
10-11-2007, 12:09 PM
how's that tutorial coming along?

im also quite eager to see

Quadart
10-11-2007, 04:24 PM
Okay, I finally got the short fur tutorial together.
You can find it here at the Art Techniques and Theories Forum:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=166&t=549267

Thanks for the interest in the tutorial. I hope it is useful.

Thanks again for all of the comments and interest in this challenge in general with all of its fine entries.

RobertoOrtiz
10-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Cool!

Thanks for posting it.
-R

speakerwizard
10-11-2007, 05:04 PM
brilliant, thanks, my 1st attempt was a bit lame haha, ill have to practice.

Reyes
10-11-2007, 05:30 PM
thanks for the tut,keep up the excellent work

Phoenician
02-20-2008, 05:02 AM
This is an outstanding desgin & tutorial , Thank You

Adrian304
02-25-2008, 03:57 PM
Great modeling Man! Keep it going!

Shimrodd
03-04-2008, 11:19 PM
I just discovered your work, pffff that's amazing ! A real pleasure to read this wip. And thanks a lot for the tutorial. :thumbsup:

dEPy
04-14-2008, 08:18 AM
Congrats. Awsome work... :)

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