Level - Mayan UT2k3

[CGmonkey]

Awesome mate..

Keep up the good work!!:applause:

[Whirlwind]

Good work. I would vary up the look of the columns. Make some of them in ruin or simply stumps. It would take away from the copy/paste feel of the columns right now. Also, (though this would be a pain) I'd vary the landscape. Add some sloops and dips. Perhapse put the main temple on top of a hill. Good luck.
-D

[NeoNautica]

Whirl: I plan on having 3 different columns when the level is completed (normal, broken in half, and broken in 4 parts).

Day 2 results. Whats new: Hut, Main Bridge, Rope Bridge, Arch, Terrain, Broken Walls (x3)

Along the top is all the parts that make up the level so far. I'll start texturing these tomorrow.
There will be more smaller stuff modeled after these are textured.
Going to clean up the paper map now.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Day_02.jpg

[Krystman]

coolcool.. looks a bit monotone but I guess that will change when it's finished... Keep going! :thumbsup:

What Program(s) are you using for it?

[JBoskma]

Wow, that looks great man. Looks awesome. Did you created that in the Unrealed, or in max/maya? I've seen some people, creating entire maps with their 3D software, which is prety weird still ;)

[DrAdamDinosaur]

Wow thats one huge level, looks great for cature the flag. You have lots of good vantage points for snipers. I also like the fact that theres a path running right around the edge of the arena. How many polys are you aiming for, or how many can UT2ks handle? Will you be releasing this one you have finished? Can't wait t see it with textures.

[gaggle]

Good dear mother of..

So the Unreal engine can actually handle a level of that size?.. does it do it "no sweat", or is that kind of detail and openess at least pushing the boundaries? I'm used to Half-Life levels myself, so.. uh.. this is a bit beyond what I'm used to think of as possible to make :)

I've never tried any of the new Unreal engine based games (outside of a short run with the UT2003 demo), so my knowledge is limited to what I've read.

I'm curious to hear what program you've been using as well, it certainly looks a lot like a rendering straight from Maya or MAX or something.

[tpe]

Looking good, it would be very interesting to know what your production pipeline is and what problems you recon on having to get past when you convert to unrealed? I have always wanted to make a level but dont want to start untill i can build it in lightwave :)

tpe

[DaKrunch]

yeah that's interesting...
what are u using to model it?
and how do u export it?

cya!:wavey:

[NeoNautica]

Program(s) Used: 3D Max 5 (and UnrealEd when play testing)

It runs fine in the engine... and all I did was break the level into 5 parts to import it. When I build the final version I'll only import 1 of each element and re-build it. Sorry for the bad lighting (only threw in 2 very bright lights for testing purposes).

From what I understand of the unreal 2k3 pipeline, once one static mesh is loaded any clones of that mesh will load with it. Hence all those columns will not tax the engine at all (very little if any).

What will strain the system is particle effects (which worries me a little since thats how the waterfalls will be made, but it will only be 2)

It will be released once its completed. It will also be one (of a few I hope) levels in my interactive portfolio. I graduate at the end of September and am planning to look for a Level Designer position at a company working with the unreal engine (Scion Studios is one of the companies I have my eye on).

I use ASCII format to export Mesh.

**Image Replace with link to decrease load time** (http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Alpha_1a.jpg)

My system specs:
- 1.8 Ghz P4
- 1 gig of Ram
- Geforce 3
Note: I tested the level with Max, Photoshop, Illustrator, UnrealEd, and Newsbin running.

[pedantic]

Hey, looks cool - though I think all those columns would annoy me after a while, they're everywhere and would play a big part in the levels gameplay I think.

[kwshipman]

this looks awesome, cant wait to play it. Are you planning on this being a CTF or bombing run. I think that either would be fun. my only crit is that a sniper sitting on top of the big temples could pickoff almost anyone anyware. though you did provide the rope bridge that appears to be well hidden from the position. cant wait for more updates.

kw

[BiTMAP]

you are obviously not making this level in unrealED? How are you making it?

[NeoNautica]

Making the map in 3D Max then breaking it down into the basic parts and rebuild it in UnrealEd.

I prefer to model than to texture. But a model is pretty useless without the textures.

Made about 7 tiling textures to test on the models.
Stills needs more work so all the textures have the same feel.
Each texture is only 512x512 to help the engine run the map better since its so big and open.

I'm also optimizing the mesh of the parts I'm texturing as I go along.

This is just a test with some of the textures, will change (probably many times) before the map is completed.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_-_Mayan_Texture_Test_A1.jpg

On the small temple I really hate the texture on the bottom half right now. That will definetly change.

Need a nap, then back to work.

[BiTMAP]

i dislike ur roof texture ;)

[NeoNautica]

ya... it sucks. Might just make the textures from scratch.

[NeoNautica]

Hut Texture Test 02 (http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Hut_Texture_Test_2.jpg)

I'm liking these new hut textures a lot (for now). Has an older/weathered feel now. Need to tweak the alpha map for the roof around the edges.

[BiTMAP]

much better.

[NeoNautica]

Small update:
Got the road textures completed. Looking for the BiTMaP seal of approval for them :)
9 more main parts to Texture. Hopefully most will be completed before monday.

Road Texture Test 1 (http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Road_Texture_Test.jpg)

[BiTMAP]

I would love to play that level sir :D

[NeoNautica]

I switched out the grays for the textured to see how the colors are working with each other. The pillar's texture has its first pass on. Need to tweak it so the Mayan art on the top block stands out more. Also the bridge pillars need to look like they have been in water for a long time.

Those are actual Mayan pillars. Except the original ones didn't have the art on the square block.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Color_Coord_Test_1.jpg

Thinking of putting a design in the middle of the intersection.

My goal is to have everything modeled and textured by the end of April. Sooner would be better, but I'm not sure how my classes will affect production speed.

[mohh]

That's looking very good.:thumbsup:

[NeoNautica]

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Rope_Bridge_TT_01.jpg

Rope bridge needed more cleaning up than I thought, but its good now. Not too sure about the colors of the wood and rope though. There are 3 variations of the broken stone wall, but they all use the same textures.

[seantree]

great stuff. now ya got me wanting to throw max open and get back into level editing. looking forward to seeing this finished.

[BiTMAP]

i'm sure you could spare to make the rope have more sides?

[ElysiumGX]

Seriously, what a great way to model a level. I hope more games can begin using basic 3d packages as level editors. I don't have the patience to learn UnrealEd, I'm so use to QuakeIII editing. I'd love to give this a try. You'll have to throw up a more detailed explaination of all the steps you took once you're finished.

This is exellent work.

[mtmckinley]

Looking really cool. :) Wish I had the game to play when you were done! lol

What kind of polycount is the level?

[NeoNautica]

I can just chamfer the edges and it'll look better. Just easier to work with at 4 sides right now.

Still have to use UnrealEd for all lighting, Bot Pathing, weapon placement, etc etc

Poly count can't really be judged right now. From what I understand brush count is important though. A brush is a UnrealEd's geometery face. But if you really want to know its at 17,553 for half of the level in 3D Max so far.

[DaKrunch]

i'd really like to see how did u export the level...
can u make a simple tut?

tnx!

[NeoNautica]

Ask and thou shall recieve... Visual Tutorial - Max to UnrealEd (350kb) (http://images.deviantart.com/large/tutorials/3dsm/Max_to_UnrealEd_Static_Mesh.jpg)

Quick and dirty tutorial on how to get an object from 3D Max to UnrealEd.

This tutorial assumes you know how to use max and UnrealEd.

When I imported the level for testing I did the same thing, except I selected a bunch of objects at once and didn't import textures. Don't try to import an object with more than 25,000 polys. That will jus cause UnrealEd to crash.

On a side note: I was able to make this level my project in 2 (out of 4) of my classes... so that will garuntee its completetion... I'm guessing around mid May a public playable build will be released for testing... Maybe sooner if people want to help test it without bot paths...

[kwshipman]

Unfortunatly I got lightwave, so I cant use your tutorial, but this is one of the most inspiring things I have seen in a while. Man I need to start comeing up with some more ideas for some levels. If you need help testing it sign me up. We could set up a tournament for members and really have a good time.

[NeoNautica]

My level is inspiring? ... guess thats a good thing... lol

Classes monday-Wed morning slowed down my progress a little, but I'm back at it...

The Medium temple should be finished soon since it will use a lot of the same textures as the large temple...

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Large_Temple_Test1.jpg

Vegitation growth will be added to structures when I start on organics. They will be seperate objects from the base structures so its easier to make them passible.

[gaggle]

Tasty.

I forget, if these are rendered shots from MAX or Maya or whatnot, will you be able to keep the nice GI-looking illumination in-game? I would certainly disagree with letting an engine do it's (relativly) crappy lighting after having seen the soft nice shadows present in your models.

So have you given the lighting thought?.. or maybe I'm way off here, dunno if you've already burned in the lighting or something.

How about colours btw? You mention vegitation, which I imagine will be.. uh.. green :), and I'm sure that'll help to remove the monochromatic look of things. Maybe a nice warm sunrise/sunset setting could spice things up, casting long warm shadows and such. ..mmnot entirely sure how to do that without having many many megabytes worth of unique textures covering the entire level though..

[NeoNautica]

The lighting for the in-game level... thats gonna be hellish... there will be a lot of lights which will help soften shadows...

Can't burn the shadows into the textures since I won't be able to use that many textures... I haven't decided on a sky setting yet...

Medium Temple is textured now... looks like the large temple cause it uses the same textures, but the geometry is different...

Medium Temple Texture Test 01 (http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Medium_Temple_TT01.jpg)

last 2 objects (small temple and arch) will be finished today... then I'll start on organics...

[gaggle]

ah yes, in-game lighting... if only the Unreal engine had lightmaps and support for pre-calculated radiosity... ;)

Mmm.. yeah, so what if I'm horribly stuck liking a five year old engine? :)

[Hellwolve]

I don't like the roof texture :shrug:

It's too repetitive IMHO.Perhaps it's going to te broken up a bit with vegitation?

[tobyWong]

You can cut the shadows into the ground with geo then vertex color it. looks good, I think it does need a bit more color though.

-TW

[NeoNautica]

All the rock textures were desaturated then I put a few layers with color and blend modes which ended up with a monochromatic look. Easier to make all the rock textures have the same feel that way.

The renders are just using a skylight and light tracer, not radiosity.

Not sure what I'll do with the roof texture, maybe put some moss on the top to break up the repetition.

I have never messed with vertex coloring. Did a quick tutorial thats in the Max help file, but it didn't yeild the results I wanted. I'll play with it more and ask some of my teachers about it.

Phase 1 is complete pretty much. Some of the textures need tweaking, but thats about it.

Been experimenting with team colors on some of the structures and other ways to determine which side you are on.

Time to start on the organics.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_Phase_1_Complete.jpg

[[DSmod]Tweak]

Hey man looks very nice! I am liking it alot!

By any chance do you have aim that i could get in contact with you? If so please contact me metallica8292 or just simply leave your contact here and i will emssage you.:thumbsup:

[j00st81]

sweet!

once tried to model some maya level for counterstrike, but never really finished it :p

are you going to do any underground stuff?

[Benork]

A couple of things I would like to comment on:


The level itself looks fantastic and I look forward to playing it.


The problems with the map that I have seen are as follows:

It is way too open, there is very little scope for rushing as I can see snipers ruling this map with ease. Perhaps adding some broken fallen colums for cover might add to the gameplay

On the note of realism:

- The columns look impressive but why are they there? Aren't colums supposed to hold things up?
- The huts look impressive, however I think that they are structurally rather weak. It might help to have the corners supporting the roof by adding some more supporting stone columns.
- The colums also are quite close together, unless I'm seeing the scale wrong it looks like it's quite a squeeze to get to the square like buildings..

Also with Unreal II and UT 2003, it is better to use a single 1024 texture than 2 512 textures. I cannot remember the exact reason but I know the engine copes better with the a single large texture.


To finish off, what course are you on, it sounds very interesting.


Well I hope you don't think the above points are complaints, it's a great looking map and I really can't wait to see more of it.


Good luck on completing it.

[mohh]

Looking fantanstic. I've made levels before and one thing that I always had to keep in mind was to make sure that you could not see across the whole map from each end. The purpose being that if you break the field of view up, the game runs much faster because it doesn't have to render things that are too far to bee seen. Now, I know nothing about this game's engine, so this might not be an issue.

[Benork]

Well I guess the thing with the Unreal II and UT 2003 rendering engines which I love is the way it renders static meshes.

Basically anything can be a static mesh, which is just a 3D model. The engine only needs to render this once and renders all duplicates of the model without using any extra processor power (I think, well at any rate its along those lines). The upshot is that if you can have as many identical models as you want and only 1 of the models is rendered. You can change the scale and rotation of the duplicates.

In this example if the colums are static meshes (which im sure they are) then only 1 is rendered and the rest are all copies, saving hugely on render times. (Sorry if the above is slightly vague, but it should get the point accross).

Which brings me to the other point. Instead of having a texture spanning the sides of the ropebridge could you not have a series of static meshes? It would look alot nicer.

[mohh]

Well, if that is how the engine handles meshes, then that it really cool! I should read up on it some. :)

[lerpiedood]

Woot! This level is looking good, can't wait to play it. The layout and modeling looks quite good!

[NeoNautica]

No new pics, just responding to comments.

j00st81: No underground stuff was in the plans, so there won't be.

Benork:
A. Trees and such will play a big part in limiting snipers field of view. Broken/Fallen columns and other small objects will be added after the organics.

B. I've been using a lot of pics from Chichen Itza for a lot of the refernece and there are a lot of columns all over the place with nothing on top of them. I'm assuming whatever they supported was destroyed in one way or another.

C. I was using some reference pics for the hut and thats what they looked like, so I made them that way. But you are right about them looking a little weak.

D. Columns will be spaced out a little more (some will be removed) so they are at about the jump length of the player.

E. When testing the meshes from a third person view there was plenty of space getting into the square rooms. That red box is bigger than the actual player model.

F. Course? I'm a Game Art & Design Major, 11th Quarter (out of 12)... if thats what you wanted to know. Thanks for taking the time to crit/give your thoughts and opinions on stuff.

Mohh: From the testing I've done, this engine could care less about how far the draw distance is. Or at least on my computer. I will be breaking it up with invisible BSPs though to help make it run smoother. Granted when I tested it there were no textures or all the lighting that will be in the final version.

Benork: hmm... ya... I could just make a 8 sided rope segment and rotate/scale it in the same position as the alpha map. I'll mess with that later though, more important things to do first.

Made a nice big spreadsheet to schedule my remaining time before graduation. Play Testing of this level is scheduled for May 12-17. So as long as I stay on schedule make sure to check back then to get in on it :) Also on the schedule is 3 player models that will use Ice (http://www.deviantart.com/download/1555154) as a base model and another level. All of this work will hopefully get me a job.

[NeoNautica]

I didn't forget about the level... had to deal with some stuff, so I'm a little behind schedule. Should be caught up by the end of the week. Planning to have the terrain finished by monday night.

One of my classes required that I import static meshes since thats what was taught last week... so I just imported what I have so far and the new terrain that I've been playing with... The texture on the terrain isn't the final version, it was just one from a texture pack to test it... Need to tweak the terrain and add some little caves into it maybe...

The skybox just has some textures from one of Epic's map packs. Its now officially a CTF map that works, but still needs a lot of work to look pretty.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Play_Test_4-19B.jpg

[heavyness]

very nice work! keep it up!

can't wait to steal your flag on your own map

[NeoNautica]

kole: lol... We'll see if you can when its done :p

I spent some more time in UnrealEd and got whats modeled in its correct place and such for both sides. The map weighs in at 72mb right now since all the static meshes and textures are included with the map (only other option would be to create texture and static mesh packs). The price of all custom geometry.

[j00st81]

72 mb?!

compiled and all?

doesn't get any smaller?

bleh :scream:

damn shame :p

[NeoNautica]

I could make some of the 1024 maps 512, but other than that there isn't much I can do (that I know of).

The map ran smoothly though, so at least it doesn't affect performance.

[mohh]

Looking sweet man :thumbsup:

[tobyWong]

if you get a program like debabilizer you can palitize the textures, you can keep the size and detail but sacrifice the colors that you don't use and crank down the size of the level.

Peace,
-TW

[mohh]

I like the new background pics that you updated, that looks awesome! :xtreme:

[BiTMAP]

THe lighting on the bridge needs help, perhaps torches?

[NeoNautica]

I got some good ideas for a skybox after seeing the ones in Face3 and Citadel (sp?)... so that purple thing will be gone later.

After examining LostFaith in more depth I decided to re-do how the terrain is constructed.

Toby: Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

Bitmap: None of the lighting is final. Its just a bunch of random lights at the moment. Torches are planned to be made sometime. I got a list of everything thats left to be modeled/textured. Should I post the list?

[flaagan]

just some ideas to toss out:
- add some foliage to the building textures (particularily the larger buildings) to give them some age and to break up the monotony
- topple (randomly) some of those pillars to break up the level some
- possibly cut out a few planks in the rope bridge to add the challenge of jump / trans'ing across a gap
- put adrenaline / health vial rows down the middle bridge (in plain sight from both sides' higher points)
- put a lightning gun on the cliff-face crossing
- include some bush-sized foliage and perhaps a random busted-wall along the ravine's edge for non-high point shooting vantages
- a five-sided rope will work just as well as an 8-sided one

hope these are of some help, cool level, look forward to adding it to my list of ones to get.

[j00st81]

with a bridge its only logical to have a lava pit at the bottom right :)

you can do some lightning with that also (nice red glows coming from the bottom, gives it more of an eery atmosphere)

[DaKrunch]

it's getting great! ;)


one last doubt... did u export from max the terrain as well or it was modeled in UndealED?

keep it up can't wait to play it!
:thumbsup:

[NeoNautica]

Big, thick trees... maybe too thick... 750 polys each... My nvidia card does a lovely job of blend pixels and blending out the little details on the leaves. I'm not really sure on how to make the trees better, so I'll leave them as is unless I get some good feedback on how to make it better.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/anime/Level_Mayan_-_Tree_Test_02.jpg

Lighting is still temp...

[kwshipman]

Thoes trees loot great but dont seem to fit with the level. Could be wrong though. I was thinking something more tropical for the leaves. Something like palms and less like oaks. Keep it up though. once there are some more trees and you get the lighting this will be awesome.

[NeoNautica]

I was using reference pics from Chichen Itza and there were more leafy trees than tropical/Palm Tree types. I did narrow the trunks a bit so it looks alright now.

[NeoNautica]

Update:
I've come across a major problem with the level which is pretty much taken care of, but it has set me behind a little. Was testing the level and discovered none of it had Karma Collision, so I ended up spending a day and a half making Karma collision mesh for all the objects.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Karma_Coll.jpg

- Karma collision is what determines how the body interacts with the objects when a player dies. So if there is no Karma collision the body passes through the object, which isn't very interesting.

Now I have to rebuild the level. But on the bright side I can optimize textures and add in all the broken columns and such this time around. Should reduce the map's file size a bit.

Planning on having a playable build by Tues. for my Mid Term in Advanced Game Prototyping. It will just be an early alpha version if anything.

[mohh]

Heh,

That is soo kewl.

[NeoNautica]

At first I disliked the terrain tool, but now I like it. So I remade the terrain using UnrealEd's Terrain Tool. This will allow better collision, lighting, and such compared to the Terrain made in Max.

Painting the textures on it now. Should have the level pretty much rebuilt by Sat. night. Decided to use the Ferns that came with the game instead of making my own. It'll make the file size a little smaller and save some time.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_New_Terrain.jpg

[kwshipman]

got an update for us?

[NeoNautica]

ah... um... lol... damn Ragnarok Online and Vice City PC for sucking away all my time...

I optimized all the textures converting them to dds (DirectX texture format). Which shaved the size of textures by 75% and dropped the file size of the level by 30MB. The level is currently 26MB total. I believe it will be around 30-35MB when completed.

All the static meshes are in the level (except for torches and I might add a few more rocks here and there). Ferns are on a deco layer so if you don't like them (or they are hurting your comps performance) you can turn off the "foilage" option in the settings menu.

Figured out xProcmesh (takes a static mesh and makes it behave like water) so I got the waterfalls in there (but now I'm figuring out how to texture them... doing some complex shader stuff to make them look nice).

Skybox is next on the hit list after the waterfalls. Then followed by lighting, optimization, power up/weapon placement and a few other things I can't think of at the moment (got a list somewhere).

Was going to wait until I get the lighting done to post a pic, unless someone really wants to see what it looks like right now.

[Hellwolve]

Originally posted by NeoNautica
<SNIP>Was going to wait until I get the lighting done to post a pic, unless someone really wants to see what it looks like right now.

Sure, give us a pic. I'm always hungry for more :D

[NeoNautica]

I took out the 2 very bright lights in the level and put in 2 sunlights which kinda work like a skylight with light tracer in Max... kinda...

I'm working on the water textures right now... and its not being very nice... There are probably a few small things I'm not doing which cause it not to work properly (thats how it usually is)...

Will switch over to making the skybox for now and work on the water more after that... blah

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May_18.jpg

[mohh]

Hey that's looking great!! Does having all of those trees in there slow down your machine at all?

[NeoNautica]

Around the middle of the level (near the waterfalls) there is a drop in FPS due to the fact its more open and I wasn't able to put in Anti-portals to optimize the level. Overall the trees don't do too much damage to the FPS.

A little update: I fixed how a lot of objects recieve light, so all those small columns aren't black like they are in those screenshots.

[NeoNautica]

Update:
- Start of skybox (will add to it in the form of something(s) animated.)
- Reduced the number of columns (by about half)
- Added more sunlights in different directions, colors, strengths (4 total now)
- Took out some trees here and there
- The waterfall is still there. I messed up the texture and its barely visible.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May_19.jpg

Like or hate the orange sky?

[mohh]

It's looking great! I know that you'll get a handle on that water :thumbsup:

[Hellwolve]

I agree with mohh, it's looking good :thumbsup:

Keep on goin' !

[NeoNautica]

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Bot_Pathing_v1.jpg

Put a little color key on there in case you were wondering what the different colors meant.
Still needs tweaking, more jump spots, translocator targets, etc etc.
A good learning expereince...

[NeoNautica]

After testing the old layout with 24 other bots it was apparent that there was no way I'd be able to get decent frame rates on it. So I drew up this layout and got the terrain pretty much completed. Still need to add the rock texture to it, then add in all the other meshes. I think this map will offer more interesting gameplay than the first.

Its a little smaller and divided by 2 large mountains. A small temple near the Flag temple will have a portal to the temple on top of the mountain.

C&C welcomed.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Layout_2.jpg

[Dancing Monkey]

that's tight!

[mohh]

Heh, I knew that it was too wide open. I like what you'v done, should dramatically increase it's performance. Keep it up!

[DrAdamDinosaur]

the level looks good although I think the mountains in hte middle are a little to square. I think they are a good idea so you can stop long range sniping. Also, I think it may look good if you have a sky texture at the base of the mountain to show that the mountains are so high they are above sky level. Nice work.

[Dancing Monkey]

Dr. AdamDinosaur is right... add a sky texture!

[caustic]

Pity you had to change it.
The new one looks good but the first one looked like it would have been fun.

Have you thought about just making the older one slightly different?

Maybe where the river is make it a mountain ridge cutting the two areas off and having the river and waterfall inside like a cave?

That way you can keep gameplay of most of the map very similar and possibly speed up the frame rate as it will be 3 seperate areas?

Just an idea, I don't really know much about how the engine handles the loading of the map etc.

[NeoNautica]

The first map could work if I took out a lot of the trees and columns... but then it wouldn't be as fun since its just wide open sniping. When I was playing with the bots it was a big rocket orgy down the main bridge. What caustic suggest could work, but then I think it would be too much like CTF-Magma.

I'll be making it look like the playing field is sticking up above the clouds so it feels like you're high up there. I'll leave the mountains as is for now since they are "fun" gameplay wise.

------

Progress post before I get some sleep...

Finished painting terrain, added columns, added teleports from ground level to sniper temples (With a nice particle effect so you know where the teleporter is), added weapon placements and some power ups/ammo, CTF mode works now.

I put the redeemer in this version (Its in the middle of the map where someone would be completely exposed to sniper fire).

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_V2_May24th.jpg

I'm having issues with the dirt paths in-game (they don't blend into the grass texture as nice as they do in the editor for some reason). I played with all my detail setting but couldn't find a fix, so I'll be looking into that tomorrow as I add in more stuff.

[Hellwolve]

I have got only one question: where is the water coming from?

[NeoNautica]

I've been thinking of making a floating island above where players could go with waterfalls coming down off it... but then where does the water come from on that... lol

Could take the waterfalls out and just let it be a cliff, but I thought that might take away from the fun...

[Hellwolve]

Originally posted by NeoNautica
I've been thinking of making a floating island above where players could go with waterfalls coming down off it... but then where does the water come from on that... lol

Could take the waterfalls out and just let it be a cliff, but I thought that might take away from the fun...

Nah, leave it be. It looks cool :D

[BiTMAP]

does the waterfalls have to be realistic and actualy come from something?

[pedantic]

Originally posted by NeoNautica
I've been thinking of making a floating island above where players could go with waterfalls coming down off it... but then where does the water come from on that... lol

Could take the waterfalls out and just let it be a cliff, but I thought that might take away from the fun...

Who cares mate, it's a game, people need to use their imaginations ;) I used water in a wall for one of my JKii levels, it was vertical and didn't have a cover so if it were real life, it would fall out... 2 people complained out of the 8000 or so that have downloaded it. Didn't tarnish my thoughts on the level or stopped me from using it in the future.

If people are put off by the fact that water HAS to come from somewhere, then somethings wrong with them - its not as if people run around with rocket launchers and flak cannons killing each other just to get a flag from one point to the other either ;)

[mohh]

I agree, forget about where the water comes from. Besides, who says that it can't be coming from an underground spring that's under the main bridge? ;)

[NeoNautica]

Updates:
- Defending mounds (next to small temples)
- Added Health, Shields, and Ammo
- Lowered the Temples on top of the mountains
- Added all start points
- Optomized FPS more
- Fixed some Terrain Textures
- Added Trees and Ferns
- Other small tweaks

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May_25_B.jpg

Going to need to play test it by next weekend, maybe sooner.

[mohh]

So what were you doing wrong with the path textures? They look great now.:thumbsup:

[NeoNautica]

When you paint a texture onto the terrain the Alpha map has to be the same size as the Terrain Height Map... and it wasn't... Terrain is 512x512 and the paths were on a 256x256... which resulted in pixelation of the paths... looked really ugly.

[Roach[MXF]]

Now you need a field of some sort with stalks to fight in :) -Jeremy-

[NeoNautica]

Updates:
- Waterfalls with Texture
- Physics volumes (Water pushes you over the edge, kill zones on the way down to kill ya)
- Moved Teleport entrance/exit at top of mountain (so you can't be shot right after you go through it)
- Painted gravel texture on top of mountain
- Tweaked terrain some more

Now I gotta figure out how to blend the waterfall bottom, bottom of the level, and skybox together so it looks nice...

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May_26th.jpg

[muckywetnoodle]

Looking nice! Bamboo would be cool.

[Dhin]

Maybe not bamboo but more jungle plants and trees would be nice.

[BiTMAP]

your cliffs kinda look dumb :S I'm sorry, I think it would be neat to go with the floating rock idea and to make all of ur cliffs floating with the bottoms being jagged to a point, and then water falls tumbling off each one onto the ones below, and lots of vegitation on the to top most "sniper" ones, and then your skymap will blend easier becuase it will go all the way around it, and for sure you need more vegititation everywhere..

[Dancing Monkey]

No offense to bitmap... but I think it's perfect how it is.. but you know how we all like to tweak our stuff forever...

[NeoNautica]

Unreal Engine is powerful, but has limits.

There are lots ferns around the flag bases and huts on both sides , its just when I take a shot of the whole map I get out of range of their draw distance.

Frame Rates are the name of the game and since the map is open there is only so much I can put in there and not have the gameplay killed by low FPS. Must consider that player models are 2500-3300 polys and if you have 7 players on screen it adds up fast.

I'm going back and hacking out polys of some models at the moment, completely rebuilding others. I'll post a pic of the new stuff later when its done.

I've already decided and am working on the blend between the skybox and the map. So you'll be able to see that when I post the next update as well.

[Solve]

hey this is fantastics, you've made great progress. I would love to make maps someday but at i have to improve my skills a bit, but I'm almost there.

[LAn]

looks nice, but try to use more bsp, because of lightmaps. I don't like the new engine very much, because of the missing lightmaps, it sucks to create a baked texture for every staticmesh, also it kills the perfo (i like the lighting of the old engine much more, but who cares).

For example, you can replace the ways between the temples with bsp-ways (only the ground, not the pillar), than you'll get some nice shadows. Also you can do the basic's of the temple with bsp, so the lighting would be much better.

Hope you're using antizones to increase the performance, i don't know how much UnrealEd-skill does you have, perhaps some things i've mentioned are on one of the sites, which i've never read, but i hope my suggestions can help you :)


btw: argh, my english become more and more worse... perhaps i should go sleeping, i didn't sleep last night very much... 1 or 2 hours? 0_o

[NeoNautica]

Updates:
- New Pillars (28 Tris, compared to 44 Tris of old Pillar.)
- New Ferns (36 Tris, compared to 96 Tris of old Fern. Also darkened the texture)
- New Trees (174 Tris, compared to 716 Tris of old Tree.)

Experimenting with jump pads in the level at the moment.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May_29th_Update.jpg

LAn: Thanks for the comments. I might try replacing the path with BSPs.

[BiTMAP]

that looks pretty good :D

[NeoNautica]

Been learning the particle emitters in more depth...

Updates:
- JumpPads (Red line shows where they launch the player. Same for other side)
- Broken Columns added (Can see 2 in the Top down shot)

Experimented with a grass deco layer... Didn't like it, so I got rid of it...
Everything for the level will be completed by Tuesday (except Bot Pathing and Weapon/Items placements may change based on testing results).

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_May30th.jpg

[Dancing Monkey]

This is too cool! :buttrock:

[Benork]

Looking really really good. Alot has changed since I last looked at this topic. some things for the best, some for the worse perhaps.

It's getting to a point where, without being able to actually run around the level and get a feeling for the atmosphere, its hard analyse the level properly.

The level looks great. There are some small things that sort of bug me so I'll list them.

1) The jump pads. Fair enough they can add to the gameplay but I think that the level works fine without them. Also the colour of the particles make them stand out from the level a tad too much. Perhaps try experimenting with different particle colours.

2) The cliffs/mountains. Not really sure what they are but i honestly find the areas of raised land offputting. The idea is great and i think that as an idea it adds to the level. However this is ruined by the flatness of the surfaces and the repetative textures. Try varying the mounds and see if you can get some different effects. Also maybe keep the mounds non symetrical. They don't really have to look identical as long as they are roughly the same.

3) Again on the subject of the mounds. How does the player get to the top of them? Ladders? Jump pads? I think that it would be awesome to create either a staircase carved into the rock or ancient looking scafolding.

4) Symetry. Whilst I know that symetry is important I feel that the level is perhaps a bit too symetrical. Try using some interesting and unique features at either side to offset this. This is getting rather deep but a contrasting theme could work well, as an example good vs evil could work well. 1 half of the map has dead bodies and alot of blood whilst the other half has religious symbols and more lush vegitation. This would allow the player to easily distinguish one side of the map from the other without the additional elemets affecting game play. After all its only textures and some very small models I'm talking about. However i know that would really change the level quite alot....

Apart from the above four the level looks absoutely stunning. I really cannot wait to play it so I can give some more advice... Great job.

[NeoNautica]

1. The jump pads were added to quicken the pace of gameplay. Since I'm making the player run backwards for the rocket launcher I wanted them to be able to get to the action quickly. (Just finished tweaking their strength).

1b. The Particles are supposed to be the color of the team... except they all show up as bright white... Still trying to figure that one out.

2. Mountains break up the draw distances. I only have so much space for texture memory, so I have to tile textures. Symmetry will be addressed in 4.

3. There are teleports to the top of the mountiains. a Staircase going up that high would be a lot of polys. A ramp system could work, but there isn't really enough space to put that many ramps in it.

4. Symmetry is used so the map is "fair" in everyone's mind. A lot of people suggested I make a non-symmetrical map, but I'm too close to the deadline to rebuild the map again. My next map will be non-symmetrical (been working on themes and papermaps for it. Thinking of doing a underground city with waterways. Kinda like Venice underground with a futuristic twist to the architecture. More on that later.)

Its my first map and so far it has accomplished what I wanted it to do. Mainly to learn the editor in more depth.

[teacup]

Did lowering the poly counts of the trees and ferns help performance much? I'm wondering because static meshes should be able to use pertty high poly counts with barely any decrease in performance, I'm just wondering how this worked for you?

[NeoNautica]

It helped performance and allowed me to put more of them in. Static Meshes render the fastest (compared to Terrain and BSP), but how many polys you put in them depends on the poly count of the whole environment around them.

[Benork]

Those explinations are great, clears things up I guess. Really good work Neo. Can't wait to see the end result.

When is your deadline for this project?

[NeoNautica]

I'm doing lots of small tweaks and additions, most of which you'll never see... so no new screenshots until its done (probably). Last major visual is the clouds of the skybox, which are still in progress.

Play testing tomorrow in my Game Prototyping class, so hopefully that will resolve Weapon/Item/Power up placements.

Trying to figure out how to make a trigger that sets off a sound. I want this to be a way for base defenders to know where potential flag stealers are coming from (Player hits trigger, which sets off a bird sound in a tree around the main temple).

Added sounds for the water and waterfall. They're not as loud as I want them to be, but if I make it louder you hear it from everywhere on the map.

Don't shoot a rocket when you use a jump pad... A rocket smacked me in the back cause the jump pad launches you faster than it. :D

Project Deadline: June 17

[CENOBITE]

That comment early on in the forum expressed suprise that the Unreal engine could cope with a level that big. Funny thing is that the engine will be used for Tribes: Vengance... and that game has absolutely gigantic levels! ( of course its been tweaked and optimized for that game). Of course I think they are doing what you do and adding terrain in a way to hide pop-up... waitaminute, but then again there is the flying. Hmmm... well, that wont work.

[Grooveholmes]

Damn i can't see

[NeoNautica]

They are probably using meshes with multiple level of detail for the new Tribes which would make flying possible without killing frame rates.

[NeoNautica]

These are the shots I used for the animated preview for the level in the map browser. This big long project is coming to an end soon... Finally.

Right now I'm bot pathing and fixing misc. things I come across. The week before release will be used for testing the crap out of it.

Recommended Map player count: 6-12

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Money_Shots.jpg

[Whirlwind]

Truely Stunning :)

-D

[Solve]

that does look great. you've made a ton of progress since i first saw this.

Did you fix the sound problem with the waterfall?

[NeoNautica]

There was never a sound problem with the waterfall... lol
There was a texture problem, but that was fixed...

[LAn]

a few more suggestions from my side:
Use more trim, for example for the edge on the newest screen (part1) on the thing (kind of temple?) on the right side.
Also it looks like you use also staticmeshes for really lowpoly-things.
I mentioned it before, but use more bsp, like for the basics of the temple or the way between them.

Also the staticmeshes does look really lowpoly. Ok, i don't want to say, that you should waste them, but some things could be without any problem more detailed, like the pillars at the way. For example you can connect the pillars to each other (not over the way, but on the length of the way), and then add some (rounder) details like a bow over the way on each second pillar etc.
A insight-polycount of 50.000 is no problem with that engine, so you can really add some more details ^^


btw: argh, it's so hot here in germany and i'm sitting in the office at work -.-

[Lee3dee]

i like your level design :) can't wait to try it. :). Are you making this as part of the 3d buzz classes? I started a mayan level, but its way early.

[NeoNautica]

LAn: I understand what you're saying, but there is already insight poly counts of 50k (sometimes more) because of how high poly the terrain is, so I had to keep the static meshes low poly. The terrain map is 512x512 (all of Epic's levels that use terrain use a 128x128).

Hirigashi: I didn't use the 3d buzz classes, just the UDN site and other tutorial sites I have book marked. Good luck on the level, it takes a while to complete a good one (a little longer when you're learning the editor along the way).

[NeoNautica]

Got most of the Bot Pathing complete. Debugging it is a pain in the ass, more tedious than hard. What is there has been completely debugged and tested... until I add in the last bunch of nodes on top of the buildings (for Low Grav).

Release is still scheduled for June 17th.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/Level_Mayan_-_Bot_Pathing.jpg

Over 600 Path Nodes, 50 Jump Spots, 1000+ bugs fixed.

[Solve]

what does debugging consist of? I know noting about game/mod developing but I hear that term being thrown around often.

[NeoNautica]

A bug is anything wrong with a game be it graphical or programming. In the case of bot pathing UnrealEd has a debugger that lets the user know what needs to be fixed and some stuff you need to watch a bot run around to know it needs to be fixed.

[NeoNautica]

Posted this in the Finshed Gallery, but I'll put it here too. Enjoy.

http://images.deviantart.com/large/indyart/3d/CTF-Mayan_Version_1.jpg
CTF-Mayan (7MB) (http://www.deviantart.com/download/2144964)

[Hellwolve]

Woohoo, finaly!

:bounce:

Gonna give it a good test run, as soon as I reinstalled UT2003




(Had to reinstall XP today :hmm: )

[NeoNautica]

There are some things I would've like to have done better, but I'll apply what I've learned with CTF-Mayan to CTF-NeoVenice (which will be released in September. Probably start posting pics of its progress in mid July or so. Another 2 month project... lol).

[mohh]

Awesome job man!!

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