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shtl
08-19-2007, 09:04 AM
In parallel with continuumx thread about simulating Vue ecosystem, here my experiments based on multilayering noise ans speeding up pyrocluster fogs, from great advices Eric Smit posted at the cinema4d french forum.

After playing with Vue6 Infinite (not yet Xstream on my mac), I got frustrated of poly editing. To much connect/Riptide back/forward... Wich made me to start this little experimentation. Also I finally get to understand some tricks that can be done within c4d since ages, but I only understood while tweaking Vue6 shadertree ^^

So here I go :)

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_01.jpg

shtl
08-19-2007, 09:18 AM
So

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HF01_02US.jpg


and after few tweaks:

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_03_US.jpg

ooo
08-19-2007, 09:54 AM
hey those are some fine experiments! All in C4D as I understand?
I'm on a different (non 3D project) at the moment, but I have xStream for OSX waiting to be tested... Some landscaping projects coming up later this year so I'll give it a good real world test! But I won't forget DPit and who knows what happens if proxies in Vray will be available :)

odo

Rich-Art
08-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Looks awesome......

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

shtl
08-19-2007, 10:39 AM
odo:
Thanks :) Yop full c4d (r10 but I think the same can be done in r9.6)
Well they look speed at E-On, but i'm not sure how soon we'd be able to play with a combo of c4d/Vrayforc4d/Xstream. Wich for my concern would obviously be the ultimate package of the world ^^
They should enable Vray Xstream first, certainly the Vray for max at first, so...
But it can also be very quick, when we see Vlado, Renato and Daniele in action :scream:
Who knows....? :)

Anyhow, I'm also impatient to give Xstream mac a try :)



Hey hello Rich-art.
Thanks, and peace to you as well :)


Btw.
Here pics from shaders.
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP_col.jpg

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP_dpl.jpg

What I finally gat to understand:
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_vue6grade.jpg

wich goes exactly the same way in c4d:

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_c4dr10grade.jpg

Don't know about you, but i searched after this for sooo long ^^ !


My big alltime faillure is to get a really nice sky in c4d.
Well...I still find it much easyer within Vue6....
Anyone who'd like to share his secret for cool c4d sky is very much welcome :bowdown:

v-empire
08-19-2007, 10:53 AM
Hi great examples,
could you please give me short hint how you managed to do
the pyrocluster fog speedup.
I tried to find it at the french c4d site but my french is far too weak.

Thanks
Holger

ooo
08-19-2007, 10:55 AM
Well with Ozone3 or xStream you have that Vue sky in C4D. Still the best option for easy and great looking skies I think. But always open to suggestions :)

And thanks for those screenshots. I played with the Vue shadertree too. That falloff setting is a great trick indeed. Will look deeper into that! :thumbsup:

odo

shtl
08-19-2007, 11:28 AM
@ V-empire:
Haha! Well i did plan to post it later since I didn't yet post any pyrocluster image here ....^^
but ah!...here you go:
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_07_traceur.jpg

Also I guess you followed this thread wich is very helpfull on pyrocluster?
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=529895&page=1

I have to try this too!


odo:
Neither did ya hun?
Two clics and I rendered a matching sunlight sky with vuesynch plugin @ 8000px in HDR, I think it looks much better....?
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_05-2.jpg


PS:
sorry guys, my screen capts are FR, I manage to replace them in US asap.

maharadjah
08-19-2007, 01:11 PM
This is stunning work !!

sulian
08-19-2007, 01:14 PM
Très bon exemple et les captures d'écran en français ne me dérangent pas :thumbsup:!!

Very nice work.

ilay
08-19-2007, 02:23 PM
One word for these tests is Wow! :thumbsup:

soccerrprp
08-19-2007, 02:39 PM
As long as we're talking about landscaping possibilities, has anyone used or have insight on this product called MOJO WORLD? I'm certain it's no in the same league as VUE, but a possible alternative?

http://www.pandromeda.com/products/mojoworldpro.php

Richard

mogh
08-19-2007, 03:26 PM
there is an old landscape thread here

the gradient got used a lot too

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=248584&page=2&pp=50

cya

Jorge Arango
08-19-2007, 03:26 PM
Very interesting experiments. I guess that being french you must have seen Aurety's shaders works.



Jorge Arango

shtl
08-19-2007, 03:40 PM
maharadjah ;) , sulian, IlaySHP, thanks :)

soccerrprp:
yop long time I didn't give it a second chance. Thanks for the reminder :)


Ok here is the shot with touch of pyro. Like this it doesn't slow that much rendering time.
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_07.jpg

shtl
08-19-2007, 03:42 PM
Jorge Arango:
yes sure, I learnd a lot, almost everything, from Aurety the crazy french guy ^^

Continuumx
08-19-2007, 03:55 PM
Bravo!:thumbsup: Impressive work with the textures and the sculpting!

Rich-Art
08-19-2007, 05:26 PM
Aha Aurety. Sure it is a nice guy and Aurety can make nice shaders indeed.
Your image with the pyro looks awesome.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

Incarnadine
08-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Has anyone heard from him lately? His site seems to be down for a while now!

shtl
08-19-2007, 07:43 PM
there is an old landscape thread here

the gradient got used a lot too

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=248584&page=2&pp=50

cya

ooops I missed this one.
Yeah impressive work over there.
Sad I didn't see it before. I feel silly of posting here things you all know for ages haha! ^^


Thank you continuumx.

And thanks again Rich-Art :)
I'm wondering what CAN'T do sir Aurety !?! ;)




I think I'll stop there with this BG then....




http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_newchallenger_01.jpg

shtl
08-19-2007, 07:47 PM
Has anyone heard from him lately? His site seems to be down for a while now!


Yup wus wondering the same...
Neither at french forum....
I hope for him he's enjoying his hollydays :)

soccerrprp
08-19-2007, 07:56 PM
Has anyone heard from him lately? His site seems to be down for a while now!

I was wanting to visit his site the other day and it was down.

Richard

Rich-Art
08-19-2007, 08:22 PM
Yeah I noticed that too. Strange indeed.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

mogh
08-20-2007, 05:52 AM
is there any chance that you give us a quick translation of your displacment channel "Noise types"

I am not able to read any French (sorry)

just a list of your noisenames and layertype would help thanks

regards mogh

shtl
08-20-2007, 06:11 AM
Sure, here you go. :)


EDIT:
OK, for r10 only, here the terran full shader. :)

ooo
08-20-2007, 08:23 AM
Sure, here you go. :)


EDIT:
OK, for r10 only, here the terran full shader. :)


Thanks for that! Much appreciated :thumbsup:

odo

hentsteph
08-20-2007, 01:45 PM
Merci beaucoup Corentin, très généreux de ta part.

shtl
08-20-2007, 02:11 PM
You welcome :)

Don't hesitate to post something if you find enhancements or funny variations :thumbsup:

I vaguely remember the pionneers posts of c4d SPD, forgot version, r9?
I switched to r9 so late I missed them all. When I see how excited I am when I watch the exemple files in Vue6, or the cool shader contests of fabrics or skin shaders, I wonder if that couldn't be cool to have something in this flavor for rocks and terrans? In an another way, displacement is usually so slow to render, maybe everybody avoid it?

Rich-Art
08-20-2007, 05:38 PM
Thanks for sharing, very generous of you.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

scanmead
08-20-2007, 07:53 PM
Exellent shader work! It's making me a bit dizzy right now, but looks indispensible when it becomes clear. ;)

SPD may be a tad slow (maybe not so slow in VRay), but it's a heck of a lot cheaper and less prone to crash the scene than the alternative.

Let's see if I can putz around in Sky for you...

georgedrakakis
08-20-2007, 08:24 PM
hi corentin,
woooooow, this is great work!!!
impressive experiments from a shader master!!
keep it up

shtl
08-20-2007, 08:43 PM
Rich-art, George: :)

Exellent shader work! It's making me a bit dizzy right now, but looks indispensible when it becomes clear. ;)

SPD may be a tad slow (maybe not so slow in VRay), but it's a heck of a lot cheaper and less prone to crash the scene than the alternative.

Let's see if I can putz around in Sky for you...

That would be cool.
I tried again but I feel very unlucky with sky module.
Even the new cloud function that looks so interessing in the concept... didn't manage to get something good out of it. Queston of experience certainly.
So help would be terrific ! Thanks. :)

scanmead
08-20-2007, 11:08 PM
Ever been in the mode where you want to go right, and keep turning left?

Goal: bright sky with clouds.
Result: Industrial Pollution
Result: Moody Twilight
Result: Contrails

This is gonna take a while. :rolleyes:

mogh
08-21-2007, 05:44 AM
thanks shtl for the File, much love

i stumble over the old limitation of these fantastic shaders. they are all setup for a specivic World Size. I just thrown it on an old island i have and its ok but not as stunnng as your rocks.
I requested a Shader scaling option to maxon a while ago. To scale every layer in a shader whith on overal scale value ... because the texture tag scaling wont work if the shader has a gradient setup with world or opbjekt koordiantes ...

nevertheless i trie to get something out of your setup and will manual scale it t my scene and perhaps combine it with my old shader, but have to go to work now, see ya in the evening

thanks again shtl

regards mogh

shtl
08-21-2007, 06:24 AM
Ever been in the mode where you want to go right, and keep turning left?

Goal: bright sky with clouds.
Result: Industrial Pollution
Result: Moody Twilight
Result: Contrails

This is gonna take a while. :rolleyes:

haha yeah ^^
good luck :)


thanks shtl for the File, much love

i stumble over the old limitation of these fantastic shaders. they are all setup for a specivic World Size. I just thrown it on an old island i have and its ok but not as stunnng as your rocks.
I requested a Shader scaling option to maxon a while ago. To scale every layer in a shader whith on overal scale value ... because the texture tag scaling wont work if the shader has a gradient setup with world or opbjekt koordiantes ...

nevertheless i trie to get something out of your setup and will manual scale it t my scene and perhaps combine it with my old shader, but have to go to work now, see ya in the evening

thanks again shtl

regards mogh

yup. the displacement goes stl 300cm high if i remember right. [250cm after checking back]
If I didn't forget any, all noises should be set as "UV" system. There is also a "projector" function.
Also, the shader is absolutely not yet optimised for animation. I shall reduce some details and stuff to avoid flicking, as EricSN suggested me. Need more testing.
Also Ao+oren nayar = some "dead" white pixels. For still image 5 or so is 1mn of stamp in PS. They won't show in every scene, but might.
Finally, I didn't mention that my plane on previous pix is 64000 polys in a HN at 3 = ±4,000,000 quad polys. +1SPD lvl! And UVW perfect ^^ (since it's a simple plane haha).
I work on a "quad"xeon 2.6 with 3G ram on osx, but tested on my goodol' dual G4 and it runs perfectly. Exept it's more hour then minutes. ^^

But yes a global scaling could definitly be great time saver. Don't know how much it's possible in c4d...


Anyhow have a nice day of work. :)

C-Ya then

shtl
08-21-2007, 03:25 PM
Made few mistakes on my tests, like putting the tile "x4".
So I took all noises, one by one, and divided them by four.
I absolutely have to update my ref-shader haha!

So. This way it's easyer for me to bodypaint bitmap UV on it :)
Also did some dirtytricks so the cave don't look too much illuminated.

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_16.jpg

sulian
08-21-2007, 05:59 PM
whoaa !! very impressive :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

govinda
08-21-2007, 06:44 PM
So. This way it's easyer for me to bodypaint bitmap UV on it :)
Whoah, so what does that UV map look like? :D

shtl
08-24-2007, 07:37 AM
Thanks for support Sulian :)


...so what does that UV map look like? :D
Hello Govinda.
haha, well UVW doesn't look so fabulous...^^
Here are captures (very low quality sorry), it's faillure for now, but it's still experimentale for me... ( 64000 polys UVs ^^ )
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_UV1.jpg

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_UV2.jpg


So I can play mix of procedural and bitmaps...
Still very WIP indeed.
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_UV3.jpg


NEXT:
http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_15.jpg

CanisLupus
08-25-2007, 05:43 PM
WOW! :eek: This is so awesome! I wonder what hell of a machine you must be rendering with resulting 18 minutes of render time!

Great work!

shtl
08-26-2007, 09:24 AM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4573772&postcount=4

±20mn on quad Xeon
±1H30mn on dual G4

Someone told me the shader is too slow on his computer (octo), so I suggest to disable the SPD and use simple displacement if possible, since it's way faster than SPD.
As per exemple, my scene's terran is 64,000 polys under HyperNurb lvl3, wich gives poly count of 4,000,000 quad polys! (from memory)

Also you might want to disable the AO layer in color chan, wich should speed up a bit processing.

Finally I can tell you (that's obvious but ;) ) that baking the shader wont give as nice result as procedural! Huge amount of work that lead to deception, I did the test.

Lovas
08-27-2007, 07:02 AM
Great work, impressive and also quite useful! The "reverse egineering" of Vue shaders in Cinema 4D can be very rewarding...

The only thing I don't understand is the word "Retro" in the thread name. What is so "retro" about doing 3D landscapes ??? :) I find it very actual and much more creative and useful than many "trendy" stuff (animating some stupid letters and balls in MoGraph or whatever else it might be..:twisted:.)

shtl
08-27-2007, 10:49 AM
Thanks for dropping by Lovas.
Very glad it can be usefull :)


^^ Nope, retro WIP, the work in progress is allready over for 2 weeks indeed.

I do love landscapes!
Also love Vue6.






as well as abstract motion graphics ;)

Speaking of Mograph, I gaved-up this scene because since there ain't no jenna anymore since R10, the only way to "viewport control" displacement is the Mograph function.

I'll improve this image when I'll get MG...one day^^


I stopped here:

http://www.shtl.org/FC4D/HFWIP01/HFWIP01_18light.jpg

Lovas
08-27-2007, 12:35 PM
^^ Nope, retro WIP, the work in progress is allready over for 2 weeks indeed.
...
...
as well as abstract motion graphics ;)



;) hehe, sorry, I see now I had obviously completely misunderstood the meaning of "Retro" in the thread subject. As for my remark regarding MoGraph - definitely an useful tool, didn't mean to attack it, I used it just as an example - what I meant to say is that I get annoyed from time to time with "trendy" 3D users, the kind of ones that would start to model and render Dinosaurs after the Jurassic Park XVI hits the theatres (but never before that) and then switch their efforts to creating hairy Gorillas after someone in Hollywood says the King Kong XXV is the latest hit. And put a "Retro" sign to any 3D work that is not Dinosaurs / Gorillas / whatever is the hit of the day - If you know what I mean...;)

As for Vue 6, I like it too. A great, capable and a rather fast engine, an excellent material editor I could go on and on...). I had tried almost every landscape software starting with Vista (nothing to do with the latest MS OS, but one of the first terrain generators on personal computers, some folk might remember it...) and some early version of Vue on Amiga platform back in the 90's up to the latest versions of Bryce, Mojo, World Builder - But Vue 6 is the first of them that I can say I'm satisfied with. Not to mention the excellent integration of Xstream into C4D (could be a little bit more stable, though...).

That's exactly when the mimicking of Vue materials in Cinema 4D that you are describing above comes in handy - when one tries to seamlesly integrate C4D and Vue scenes.

AdamT
08-27-2007, 01:46 PM
Hey Daniel, have you noticed an apparent bug in xStream where metaclouds don't render when AO, GI, or radiosity is turned on in the Vue engine?

Lovas
08-27-2007, 06:10 PM
Hey Daniel, have you noticed an apparent bug in xStream where metaclouds don't render when AO, GI, or radiosity is turned on in the Vue engine?

Try turning on the GI in Cinema 4D Render Settings when rendering such scenes and the metaclouds should show up during the second pass.

pioupiou
08-29-2007, 06:46 PM
Really impressive Shtl. Great work.
Meuh non je te lêche pas les pieds :D

:thumbsup:

AdamT
08-30-2007, 05:53 PM
Try turning on the GI in Cinema 4D Render Settings when rendering such scenes and the metaclouds should show up during the second pass.
Aha!! Thank you!

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