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View Full Version : Maya 2008 Feature Videos Are Up


Wonderer
08-18-2007, 05:05 AM
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=9974388

SheepFactory
08-18-2007, 05:58 AM
You know you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel when you spend 5 minutes showing the gimmicky navigation cube on the viewport as a new feature.

If you think I am being harsh watch the non destructive skin editing video.

etobler
08-18-2007, 06:10 AM
You know you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel when you spend 5 minutes showing the gimmicky navigation cube on the viewport as a new feature.

If you think I am being harsh watch the non destructive skin editing video.I agree, such a pathetic release. so sad. Who gives a shit about the viewcube!?! So many other things are more important. I was excited about Maya 2008 from the few details I read about it when they announced it but now that i've seen the features, i'm very dissapointed. Do they even listen us? Wheres the innovation? SudD modeling? big deal. Maya 2008? More like Maya 2001.

Wonderer
08-18-2007, 06:16 AM
You know you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel when you spend 5 minutes showing the gimmicky navigation cube on the viewport as a new feature.


I second that, no new impressive features, allthough the new poly/subd preview seems cool for modelers.
But no real reason to upgrade except perhaps for the new mental ray, which is another mystery.

ps:
<======= Iīm feeling like my avatar right now.

yenvalmar
08-18-2007, 07:10 AM
i wonder what other usefull features autodesk will break. so far file referencing and render layers, two thing i used everyday for years, are seriously hosed. ncloth is nice, but thats duncan brimsmead's work, and i give him personal credit for it, aDesk had nothing to do with it i'm sure..

if i had a zillion dollars i'd just hire duncan to make a 3d program from the ground up. his contributions are about the only usefull things added to maya since release and i use most of them on just about every project i do.. they truly enable one dude like me to make work that was previously the domain of whole studios, and isnt that what life is about? :) i hope hes getting paid.

doodlyD
08-18-2007, 07:19 AM
character features are very useful for me =)specialy copy skin tools
will speed up my workflow few times
and if you do skining very often , only this features will make you happy =)

overall features update is poor ,but maybe performance and stability is high =)



and viewport realtime rendreing is nice =)

JoshBowman
08-18-2007, 08:01 AM
Now comes the age of yearly tweaks and no real push for developing better tools. From a business perspective this makes sense, from a customer perspective it's extremely agrivating.

SanjayChand
08-18-2007, 08:19 AM
I did demo it for around 6 hours at siggraph and it seemed pretty stable.
:shrug:

rebb
08-18-2007, 10:21 AM
I actually can't believe they showed off this little piece of Markin-Menu they added for Toggling Keep Faces Together as a "New Feature". :eek:

mustique
08-18-2007, 12:37 PM
While the new skin weight editing features are usefull,
they don't really adress the bad skin weighting of Maya.

I'd also liked to see improvements at the very beginning of the skinweighting proccess.

Like for example a maximum weighting reach attribute (in scene units)
or an editable gizmo, for each joint in its local x y or z rotation axis.

This way, the toe joint would never try to influence geometry of the neck joint no matter how badly you screw up during the the skin weight editing proccess.

This way the weight normalization would only occur among neighboring joints,
within the overlapping skin weight reach area.

lovisx
08-18-2007, 01:26 PM
moving the bones without affecting the skin cluster was already possible in previous versions... using the bindPre matrix.

mech7
08-18-2007, 01:38 PM
While the new skin weight editing features are usefull,
they don't really adress the bad skin weighting of Maya.


True you can even see it in the demo, he paints the weights under the arm, but the vertices underneath are not properly affected :(

CIM
08-18-2007, 01:59 PM
It's funny that some people act like they have to upgrade. If the new features and improvements (modeling, rigging, nCloth, mr, and more) don't help you then don't upgrade! There's nothing wrong with "old" software.

a13xr3d
08-18-2007, 02:11 PM
It's funny that some people act like they have to upgrade. If the new features and improvements (modeling, rigging, nCloth, mr, and more) don't help you then don't upgrade! There's nothing wrong with "old" software.

LIES!

*slaps CIM accross face with a fish*

cornel H.
08-18-2007, 02:36 PM
I think it looks like a good release.
they are listening to their users.
Isoline editing and non destructive skin editing are two very important additions
and have frequently been requested by users.
These are also the only features why anyone would consider switching to XSI.
So, it's great that this stuff is now taken care of.
I switched from XSI to Maya last year and these two are the only things I was missing.

They only thing I would like to see now is a darker interface
(that shouldn't be too hard)

You know you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel when you spend 5 minutes showing the gimmicky navigation cube on the viewport as a new feature.

If you think I am being harsh watch the non destructive skin editing video.

Ollarin
08-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Personally i really like the new rigging system. Very, very cool (Improves things alot now)

It's more of an Ncloth release than anything else i think though. Speaking of Ncloth, it looks AMAZING. Really amazing.

xsitar
08-18-2007, 03:27 PM
man, how difficult is it to activate the "prepare for internet streaming" when encoding quicktimes for the web, eh autodesk?

bluemagicuk
08-18-2007, 04:11 PM
ncloth is nice, but thats duncan brimsmead's work, and i give him personal credit for it, aDesk had nothing to do with it i'm sure..


Actually i think you will find Jos Stam (also ex alias) was the chief architect on that one although Duncan was involved he didnt do it all on his own .... he is on these forums so perhaps he will correct me but that was what i read at the release of ncloth :D

raptor|3D
08-18-2007, 05:17 PM
It's funny that some people act like they have to upgrade. If the new features and improvements (modeling, rigging, nCloth, mr, and more) don't help you then don't upgrade! There's nothing wrong with "old" software.

What about the end of the upgrade path?

NUKE-CG
08-19-2007, 12:52 AM
Why does this happen with every release. Clearly those 5 videos are not everything in Maya 2008. I love thinking this industry is filled with smarter than average people, but some stuff said on this forum makes my head hurt.

yenvalmar
08-19-2007, 01:04 AM
the past 2 versions of maya have progressively broken a number of features i used for years in my daily workflow, i.e.my thread, about file referencing and render layers.

if somebody came out with a program exactly like maya, same interface, every feature identical, not a single enhancement, but everything there now just actually worked properly as youd expect it to, i'd switch in a second :) if they want to upgrade they have plenty of ground to cover. maya live, trax, fluids, artisan, and soft bodies are at least as bad as the old cloth system compared to the state of the art.

and i would say the past 3 releases have been big disappointments, thats probably why we all bitch.

vfx
08-19-2007, 11:09 AM
Actually i think you will find Jos Stam (also ex alias) was the chief architect on that one although Duncan was involved he didnt do it all on his own .... he is on these forums so perhaps he will correct me but that was what i read at the release of ncloth :D

According to Duncan's bio:
I am a principal scientist with Autodesk. I am the creator of Maya Paint Effects, Maya Hair, and also worked extensively on Maya Fluids.

Funny thing about that video - being a non animation type of guy I really liked the way he was able to move that garage door around to give a concept to what the model does.... can anyone point me toward how this is done?

Kabab
08-19-2007, 11:23 AM
According to Duncan's bio:
I am a principal scientist with Autodesk. I am the creator of Maya Paint Effects, Maya Hair, and also worked extensively on Maya Fluids.

Funny thing about that video - being a non animation type of guy I really liked the way he was able to move that garage door around to give a concept to what the model does.... can anyone point me toward how this is done?
Bend deformer.

Hummingbird21
08-19-2007, 12:02 PM
I think this is the worst feature improvement since I have been using Maya (since 2.5). I am a character rigger for feature animation and TV. When I heard that Maya finally got rigging tools improvemts I was very excited. Alias have hardly put any effort in improving rigging tools over the last years. But what I see today is just a JOKE! Most of these new rigging tools are either uninteresting or already more or less existed (moving skinned joints).

The real serious rigging issues haven't been adressed at all. What I was expecting are things like these:
1. dual quaternion skinning that replaces Maya's outdated linear skin deformer
2. solid muscle system (basicaly a dynamic improvement to influence objects)
3. skin sliding and fat layers
4. improved jiggle deformers
5. nucleus rig integration solutions for more advanced deformation and volume prservations and body collisions in realtime
6. bones with internal radius for better skinning destribution when starting to rig (like max)
7. point on surface contraints that work very fast and dont break! (I know they have follicles but u need Unlimited for that)
8. stretchy reverse joint chains
9. zeroing out and reorienting controller's rotations and translation
10. reordering attributes on nodes
11. much more improved hypergraph
12. imporved component editor
13. improved mel scripting management and syntax highlighting in Maya
14. dynamic joint chains (without the need of Maya Unlimted)
15. Using the viewport for dynamic buttons, shortcuts and sliders
16. Get rid of that silly cube in the viewport! Just uses up space
17. The ability to quickly design rig templates
and... and... and...

I am aware that some of the features do more or less exist by using plugins or scripts but they are far away from becoming a standard and are buggy.

Basically I am sick of wasting my time using ropy scripts, buggy plugins that are more or less smoothly integrated for features that should have been implemeted years ago.


So, I think this release is a joke. It seems to improve the workflow for people who are coming from Blender to Maya and may be for my mom who would like to see a little cube in the top corner for 3D navigation. But I am interested in improving rigs in shorter amount of times due to tighter deadlines. Even for TV shows we are starting to use film rigs and film piplelines... This version is of no use to us!

This industry is currently moving fast - Maya is not.

This release also shows that Autodesk seems to have only a handfull of Maya developers left. These new improvements are small and fairly easy to implement. It looks like Autodesk is getting cheap. I don't know what their intention is, when they let Maya die we definately will not switch over to MAX....

A rather grumpy Hummingbird

bluemagicuk
08-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Yea im learning xsi on the side ....
I wont be controlled by marketing/takeovers for sure.
At least not so long as I have a choice anyway :P

LucentDreams
08-19-2007, 07:14 PM
"only cloth engine in the world to have lift", oh man where do they get off with these claims too.

overall disappointing release for me too, still on 8 personally just haven't had enough to justify the expense.

leuey
08-19-2007, 07:30 PM
Maya is still fantastic software that has a deep enough feature set to keep people productive for years. But make no mistake - Audodesk is a HUGE company and Maya/MAX are only tiny little parts of it (Maya being the smaller of the tiny parts). Their income is from these types of service updates - minor R&D plus about 40% of the cost of a full-release for a little update and this (little) division is profitable.

The latest podcast (modcast) over at Luxology covers this kind of phenomenon pretty diplomatically talking about how most of the innovation is coming from smaller companies nowadays. It will be interesting to see what becomes of mudbox. I would think that their painting engine is mostly done - so we should at least see that. I don't expect many more big R&D efforts out of Autodesk for a while - they will most likely aquire existing tech. The new dynamics stuff is cool but you have to keep in mind that is the result of years of work - not a service update.

-Greg

thematt
08-19-2007, 08:02 PM
Hummingbird21 I agree with you the rigging demo is a joke, well it's nice to be able to move joint without breaking hte rig, but yeah we all had script to do that already right.
the Xray mode is nice too but I'll wait to see it in action, I'm really mad that they haven't integrate a PSD deformer inside maya, i mean I know michael comet one is free and all, but it would be so much easier to simply have acess to it in maya.
Also I'd love to have a volume influence that would act as a blend for blendShape or other deformer so we could have a 3d falloff for any deformer that could be animated the way we want, that would simpify so much of our work.
All your over suggestion are darn good too, yes that would certainly be a real updated for rigging..let's wait for future release;
Although I agree the nCloth is really really sexy thanks Joe and Duncan..:)
I wasn't expected much from this realease, the real release will come with maya 9.0 this is a simple show off for siggraph, and a way to make the user wait a little bit more.

cheers

mustique
08-19-2007, 08:47 PM
Come on don't be meany, the all new view compass alone is worth the upgrade! :buttrock:

Joke aside, what an ridicoulus redesign is that! What was wrong with the old view compass. AD please at least, if ain't broke ain't fix it OK? It's almost a crime in terms of UI design.

Speaking of crime, there has to be some kind of a "software police department" that
prevents developers from charging money for such cheesy upgrades.

Because while it's true that you DON'T HAVE to upgrade,
you pay sh**loads of money if you bypass a version.

lovisx
08-19-2007, 08:57 PM
from the little i've been learning from ncloth, it looks to actually be an amazing skin solution as well as cloth solution.

vfx
08-19-2007, 11:49 PM
Bend deformer.

Sorry I knew that much... was interested in how he assigned it to a target/point that he could drag like that. :)

cold_fusion
08-20-2007, 01:38 AM
interesting up grades :rolleyes:

we'll stick maya 7.01

grafixsuz
08-20-2007, 02:54 AM
I think this is the worst feature improvement since I have been using Maya (since 2.5).

So, I think this release is a joke. It seems to improve the workflow for people who are coming from Blender to Maya and may be for my mom who would like to see a little cube in the top corner for 3D navigation.


Ouch!...As a blender user that hurt.


It looks like Autodesk is getting cheap. I don't know what their intention is, when they let Maya die we definately will not switch over to MAX....

As an XSI user I smile, coming this way maybe?

sekops
08-20-2007, 03:34 AM
wait.

Does this mean Maya is now Maya 2008? or will it then be Maya 9?

And when is the realease?

DuttyFoot
08-20-2007, 03:41 AM
still using maya 7, didn't really see the need to get 8 or 8.5. hopefully autodesk will give maya users a whole lot more of what 2008 can do, so far its not really that big of an update.

sekops
08-20-2007, 03:55 AM
heya... itd be great if Maya did address half those issues ud mentioned like in ur points 1, 10 , 11, 13, especially 16, but dont u think that if maya have all those features, we riggers will be out of a job?

Besides with additional features on top of their basic features, we will be constrained away from our custom designed tools for specific tasks. additionally I seriouslky dont think the other 3d packages on offer elsewhere have half those features either.

yenvalmar,

but yeah, if the referencing system in the Maya is shoddy, thatd mean im screwed too. Maya hasnt really addressed the referecing system, which from my view is damn important for production. I had to create several workarounds.

grafixsuz
08-20-2007, 04:36 AM
Besides with additional features on top of their basic features, we will be constrained away from our custom designed tools for specific tasks. additionally I seriouslky dont think the other 3d packages on offer elsewhere have half those features either.


You are right about that, but houdini is definitely picking up it's act and putting in things like fluids that were almost exclusive to Maya, and now with the newer pricing it a good package to give consideration to. I mean if you are unhappy with this Maya release.

SanjayChand
08-20-2007, 05:06 AM
ive also stuck with 7. Ive noticed that every odd number-release is usually the best. Before 7, I only used version 5 and didnt really like 6 or 6.5, so as based on that trend I have some hopes for what is supposed to be "Maya 9".

Glenfx
08-20-2007, 08:46 AM
Im also on version 7, I really liked the new Ncloth features... actually, that was about it.
Ncloth is one thing Maya really needed, the rest isnt really worth the upgrade.
I also saw the "new" features in Max 2008... that is a joke of an upgrade O_o, at least maya got Ncloth.


I personally wont update until maya 10 or 11 though (by that time theyll be named like super X and super duper XI, youll see )

One thing cought my attention though, they are already standarizing the viewport manipulation (the cube thing) to the other 3D packages, i smell a merge in the horizont.

kizoku
08-20-2007, 10:16 AM
If I never have to see "Could not save file" again, I'm ready to completely fall in love with this application. But hey, one can dream...

CIM
08-20-2007, 10:42 AM
wait.

Does this mean Maya is now Maya 2008? or will it then be Maya 9?

And when is the realease?

It'll probably still be Maya 9 internally.

Diabolos
08-20-2007, 12:24 PM
They should let us download it - it looks ready, the trend was to have it released for download with Siggraph and retail version a bit later (printing the packaging).

Come on Autodesk - give us the ball and let us play with the new features......

D,

MasonDoran
08-20-2007, 01:11 PM
if your still on 7.0...you dont know what your missing in 8.5:

baking Mental Ray Shaders, Ambient Occlusion, and any other kind of shader to a texture map.

This will actually distort the texture to fit the UVs (unlike convert to file texture).

Also, this will allow you to transfer a texture map from 1 model with different topology and UVs to another model....and distort it to fit the new UVs.

yenvalmar
08-20-2007, 04:19 PM
untill i tried turtle and FAOgen and got the same results 30x faster :) i guess if you are using custom MR shaders you need to use MR but for basic baking of ambocc and final gather theres way faster solutions. its great that this comes with maya now, but its so slowwwww in mr. im not joking about the 30x speed increase. with FAO gen thats even an understatement. seconds vs. hours.

the transfer maps between different topograhpy and UV stuff is cool too, for making LOD meshes or baking hi-res stuff for realtime assets, but unless you are doing game dev i've rarely had any use for it.. and again just rendering it is friggin SLOWWWW. so for a lot of people its probably like whatever.

i guess i officially give up hope of a really meaningfull maya release at this point. looking forward to the next generation of software. you know you are in the future when you stop needing to upgrade :)

MasonDoran
08-20-2007, 10:23 PM
does FAO transfer the Ambient Occlusion from the hi res mesh to the low res mesh?

And poly limits?

Wonderer
08-21-2007, 12:31 AM
MasterZap just mentioned some mental ray 3.6 new features in the max 2008 videos thread, some of then really cool, if anyone havenīt read it yet, here it goes:


Many of the mental ray improvements are not even mentioned.

Beyond the portal lights (which will make your interior renderings so easy that your grandma can do them) and the self-illumination feature (which is mostly just an UI thing), there is

the new "ambient occlusion with color bleed" feature
improved, memory efficient (and faster) "Glare" shader
a new Bokeh/depth-of-field shader that supports multi-blade apertures with edge/center bias, or even arbitrary bokeh maps
the new photographic exposure control, which gives you physically correct camera exposure controls (f-stop, shutter, film iso) as well as artistic controls (highlight burn, midtone adjust, shadow crush, saturation, kelvin-temperature whitepoint, vignetting, etc.)
the new environment blur shader that makes product visualization shots (or visual effects shots) of glossy surfaces that largely reflect their environment (= an environment map) extremely efficient and high quality
and of course, the entire production shader library (http://www.youtube.com/mentalraystuff), containing things like very advanced matte/shadow features (for integrating CG obects into photographic plates) reaching over to things like 2.5D post motion blur and motion vector export shaders.
So I hope some of you will find some fun toys there ;)

/Z


just a comment: this lack of inovations was what made me switch from max to maya, now Iīm in the same boat, again! The thing about smaller companies with a couple of products to sell, is they canīt afford to make a weak impression. Thatīs what I liked about Alias.

ZippZopp
08-21-2007, 12:32 AM
some of the little modeling tools are nice, plus the new functionality of artisan tools with being able to hold shift to smooth etc...some of the little things always can make a huge difference

MasterZap
08-21-2007, 05:06 AM
MasterZap just mentioned some mental ray 3.6 new features in the max 2008 videos thread, some of then really cool, if anyone havenīt read it yet, here it goes:

This list applies to maya as well, pretty much (give or take some UI stuff).

/Z

cpan
08-21-2007, 05:30 AM
the new photographic exposure control, which gives you physically correct camera exposure controls (f-stop, shutter, film iso) as well as artistic controls (highlight burn, midtone adjust, shadow crush, saturation, kelvin-temperature whitepoint, vignetting, etc.)

so there was a "mia_exposure_advanced" comming afterall hehe:D
thanks Zap! that alone will make many lazy archviz guys very happy! (bokeh and glare too:P)

MasterZap
08-21-2007, 05:38 AM
so there was a "mia_exposure_advanced" comming afterall hehe:D

Yes. I named the simple "simple" for a reason ;)

/Z

yenvalmar
08-21-2007, 07:40 AM
maps. not even great looking ones, but its so fast you can do 3 at different settings and blend em in post while still waiting for MR to render. not sure about poly limits either, never had a problem with it.. you can definitely do it with turtle though, a lot faster than MR still too.

yenvalmar
08-21-2007, 07:41 AM
net glitched, double post. ugh.

Olegr
08-21-2007, 12:45 PM
This list applies to maya as well, pretty much (give or take some UI stuff).

/Z

Sounds wicked. Just don't make it too easy to use. I don't want to lose my job.

oliveUK
08-21-2007, 05:00 PM
funny or sad, Autodesk bought a software called Cleaner few years back. The software was meant to output a video to a set list of codecs.

It was meant to make easy the encoding to few format and different streaming option with the click of one button....

Too bad we didn't see a Cleaner XL 2008, they could have used it to give us "fast start" videos.

victor
08-21-2007, 08:35 PM
This list applies to maya as well, pretty much (give or take some UI stuff).This stuff sounds great. Will the new AO also respect transparency by any chance?

My concern though is with the "give or take some UI stuff" comment...

The mia shaders were a great addition, but did only seem half-finished in the UI department in the Maya release, while much further along in Max. Will that be the case again this time?

When will we get all of these features as additions to the base maya shaders or at least have a simple way to convert them (for example, on an imported scene where everything comes in as Phong)? Will we still have to manually drop the shader onto the shadow and photon slots in the SG?

And on that note, when will MR become the default renderer?

MMighe
08-21-2007, 08:44 PM
And on that note, when will MR become the default renderer?

When you set it as default renderer in the preferences :thumbsup:

Great MR stuff but why autodesk doesn't add it in the "new features" both for Maya and Max in their respective web pages? Hope to see the "what's new" e "release notes" help files (with a lot of bug fixes) soon....

inguatu
08-22-2007, 12:52 PM
funny or sad, Autodesk bought a software called Cleaner few years back. The software was meant to output a video to a set list of codecs.

It was meant to make easy the encoding to few format and different streaming option with the click of one button....

Too bad we didn't see a Cleaner XL 2008, they could have used it to give us "fast start" videos.


Cleaner sucked even before it was bought by Autodesk. It was constantly crashing, the interface was horrible. AD made it worse. At least Squeeze and a few other products are out there that can do the same job, better and faster.

jbradley
08-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Cleaner sucked even before it was bought by Autodesk. It was constantly crashing, the interface was horrible. AD made it worse. At least Squeeze and a few other products are out there that can do the same job, better and faster.

Squeeze?!

Even Quicktime Pro is better than that (and faster).

inguatu
08-22-2007, 03:31 PM
Squeeze?!

Even Quicktime Pro is better than that (and faster).

nope.. QTP was horribly slow on both XP and OSX for conversions. For one.. try multiple batch conversions in it? Yeah? Really? Nuff said. I'd take old Cleaner over QTP, and that's not saying much.

jbradley
08-22-2007, 05:32 PM
nope.. QTP was horribly slow on both XP and OSX for conversions. For one.. try multiple batch conversions in it? Yeah? Really? Nuff said. I'd take old Cleaner over QTP, and that's not saying much.

Quicktime is faster for me. You can do batch conversions with it - just need to know how to do it.

Squeeze is fine and dandy for most laypeople, but I wouldn't give up QTPro with Automator (and other scripts/actions) and FlipFactory (for more pipeline automated stuff) for it. The UI for Squeeze is horrible and the files it generates are not very optimized - especially for Flash or any mpeg variant.

Plus, if you really need power in format conversions, best bet is to use ffmpeg if you want to go on the cheap (ie, free) or FlipFactory on the high end.

anyway, OT.

inguatu
08-22-2007, 06:31 PM
Quicktime is faster for me. You can do batch conversions with it - just need to know how to do it.

Squeeze is fine and dandy for most laypeople, but I wouldn't give up QTPro with Automator (and other scripts/actions) and FlipFactory (for more pipeline automated stuff) for it. The UI for Squeeze is horrible and the files it generates are not very optimized - especially for Flash or any mpeg variant.

Plus, if you really need power in format conversions, best bet is to use ffmpeg if you want to go on the cheap (ie, free) or FlipFactory on the high end.

anyway, OT.

Squeeze works fine for FLVs... a lot better than the Flash Video Encoder.. and a lot faster. QTPro was slower than Flash Video Encoder for FLVs running on G5s. We use Compressor for a majority of our videos.. Squeeze for FLVs and some other formats on the PC. I haven't found the interface to be too bad. Granted it's not crappy eye candy like some Apple stuff, but it works. After all, I'm in it to do work, not drool over glossy buttons. Yup... we have Episode at work which the engineers affectionately refer to as CrapFactory.

HamsaPaksham
08-22-2007, 06:49 PM
In my humble opinion, these little features are nothing compared to previous releases.

I think Autodesk will rebuild Maya and Max. Maybe theyīll be one app.

tiberiandusk
08-22-2007, 09:24 PM
ncloth looks amazing. the new modeling features are cool but i also wish they would fix some of the major problems before adding some minor things that they seem to think are awesome.

Wonderer
08-23-2007, 03:39 AM
Maya and Max will never be one app, Autodesk canīt take this risk, if they do, they will have loads of people not upgrading, because it would be an alien app, and nobody would know how to work with it, in the past apps like Indesign tried and almost killed himself and Pagemaker, people simply dont change apps, because corporations say so, bad move from Adobe.

Besides, Autodesk took years to integrate Mental ray and Character Studio on Max, they donīt want to lose any profits, and integrating two apps would mean killing maya and max first.

Any new cool features they come up with will probably be selled as a plug in, thatīs how they do things.

shingo
08-23-2007, 11:33 AM
Precisely.

But having the 2 apps compete for the same market requirs the doubling of efforts. Max is being positioned for Viz work and Maya is being pushed to replace the huge numbers of Max seats that exist out there.

It's a douns business plan, though it does not guarantee innovation.

Maya and Max will never be one app, Autodesk canīt take this risk, if they do, they will have loads of people not upgrading, because it would be an alien app, and nobody would know how to work with it, in the past apps like Indesign tried and almost killed himself and Pagemaker, people simply dont change apps, because corporations say so, bad move from Adobe.

Besides, Autodesk took years to integrate Mental ray and Character Studio on Max, they donīt want to lose any profits, and integrating two apps would mean killing maya and max first.

Any new cool features they come up with will probably be selled as a plug in, thatīs how they do things.

megatronskeletor
08-23-2007, 05:58 PM
Precisely.

But having the 2 apps compete for the same market requirs the doubling of efforts. Max is being positioned for Viz work and Maya is being pushed to replace the huge numbers of Max seats that exist out there.

It's a douns business plan, though it does not guarantee innovation.


Look how much market share Softimage lost during the switch from Softimage 3D to XSI?
Starting from scratch isnt fun. It's also usually advised against in any sort of software engineering theory. Throwing away 20 years of development to start from scratch isnt smart.

I dont see how 8.5/9 are minor releases either.
Since 7.0 we've gotten a switch to 64 bit on 2 platforms (linux/winxp/osx on the way), multi-threading (both of which are huge amounts of work), nCloth, underlying 'n' libs for future dynamics overhaul, full python integration, major optimizations, properties transfer, and a bunch of other handy stuff.

I've been using Maya for a long time now, and I've always been frustrated that they would throw out new feature after new feature without doing much in the way of optimization releases or cleaning up those features. I'm really happy to see Autodesk focusing on optimizing maya and working on new core feature such as n dynamics to keep building new features into maya atop that work in the future. I've been really really happy with the stuff theyve given us in 8.0, 8.5 & 9.0 alpha.

So...

Just because there isnt some hot new whizbang feature like quaternion enveloping (who has that again?...) doesnt mean they're resting their laurels.

Also - property transfer is HUGE. It's not just for moving enveloping & texture to a low-res model for games. It's incredibly useful in film work to deal with changing hi-res models when you're already rigging/enveloping - happens ALL the time.

The rumors of Maya's death are pretty overstated. I think the Alias/Autodesk guys are doing a great job.

If there is going to be a merge of the product lines I think it would pretty much be market suicide. 3dsmax and maya are very different apps with different interfaces and each has a solid customer base. Why force one group to work another way? It seems more likely that they will bolster max & maya with comparable feature sets via shared libraries. It seems very likely that the underlying n dynamics libs will be used in 3ds max at some point. I think that would be very smart of them to focus on somewhat standalone libraries for new functionality that can be implemented in either app.

Wonderer
08-23-2007, 07:50 PM
I've been using Maya for a long time now, and I've always been frustrated that they would throw out new feature after new feature without doing much in the way of optimization releases or cleaning up those features. I'm really happy to see Autodesk focusing on optimizing maya and working on new core feature such as n dynamics to keep building new features into maya atop that work in the future. I've been really really happy with the stuff theyve given us in 8.0, 8.5 & 9.0 alpha.


I think youre right megatronskeletor, I havent thought in that way, one thing Alias aways did was not giving much atention to the features already released, hopefully this doesnt get in their way of developing new tecnology, wich most of us are worried and scared of not happening anytime soon.

olcho
08-23-2007, 10:22 PM
I've been using both Maya and MAX for a long time and even though I'm more of a Maya user, both packages are amazing, each with its stronger and weaker sides.
So far every new release of Maya had some pretty cool new stuff in it. Since Autodesk took over, the new features they added were really cool. Personally, I'd like to see some more great MAX features implemented in Maya, but even if Maya had everything MAX has and the opposite, they still will be quite different.
I try to use almost everything I can - from modeling tools to animation, rigging, dynamic and so on, so it isn't hard to satisfy me, but I have to say that this release seems quite disappointing. (Keep faces together!! - Is this a joke? - it's been there since I started using Maya 4!)

Though I liked some of the things:
"Additionally, particle types previously supported only in the Maya Hardware renderer can now be rendered in mental ray, eliminating the need to combine outputs from multiple renderers." - how about that?! I don't think there's a 3D package that didn't support at least scanline rendering for particles from the early versions. Alias never did anything about that, so thank you Autodesk for this - it was about time!

While every new improvement is always welcome, it certainly isn't worth upgrading for a few little things. After all, Maya isn't exactly "cheap".
Pretty much all of the things everyone says are true - there are very important features that are waaaay overlooked. Sure hope future realeases will be better.

shingo
08-24-2007, 01:59 AM
Any suggestino fo Maya's death is crazy. The app is the stndard i nthe industry and even if it were to stop being developed tomorrow, there are too many pipelines built around it for it to go away in a hurry.

The property trasnfer features are indeed significant, though it remains to be seen how robust they are. XSI's GATOR has certainly made a huge impact in that regard.

Sooner or later however, one of the apps (Maya or Max) has got to give and given Max's age, it is the most likely candidate to exit the entertainment field. There is only so much legacy code an architecure can support before it becomes unmanageable.




Also - property transfer is HUGE. It's not just for moving enveloping & texture to a low-res model for games. It's incredibly useful in film work to deal with changing hi-res models when you're already rigging/enveloping - happens ALL the time.

The rumors of Maya's death are pretty overstated. I think the Alias/Autodesk guys are doing a great job.

If there is going to be a merge of the product lines I think it would pretty much be market suicide. 3dsmax and maya are very different apps with different interfaces and each has a solid customer base. Why force one group to work another way? It seems more likely that they will bolster max & maya with comparable feature sets via shared libraries. It seems very likely that the underlying n dynamics libs will be used in 3ds max at some point. I think that would be very smart of them to focus on somewhat standalone libraries for new functionality that can be implemented in either app.

siy
08-26-2007, 01:02 PM
megatronskeletor (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=240771) what you say makes alot of sense. I agree

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