View Full Version : What makes Cinema 4D special?
MukMan 03-30-2003, 05:18 PM Im not trying to start a flame war or anything. I am merely curious about the most special parts of CInema 4D that would make a person want to use it. Many people have different reasons for using different packages. What are your reasons for using Cinema 4D?
|
|
ThirdEye
03-30-2003, 05:39 PM
1) ease of use: there are many packages out there that require you learn how they think. Take Lightwave for example, it's a fantastic package for sure but you have to learn its gui 1st, and it takes a while for sure. In C4D you don't need anything like that, you open the program and everything is where you think that should be.
2) speed: you don't need to do 50 mouseclicks to make a sphere or to edit it, nor you have many useless complicated options for every single feature.
3) non-linearity: (nearly) everything in C4D is non modal and non linear, it means that 90% of the C4D tools and items are procedural and allow you to exploit proceduralism anytime (modeling, animation, texturing, rendering...)
4) support: technical support and Maxon people are simply F A N T A S T I C
5) it grows up faster than any other big package out there, only Softimage XSI has grown up so fastly
6) speed: the OpenGL support is the fastest out there and the raytracer is the fastest too. It means you don't need ultraexpensive machines to use it
7) modularity: you just buy what you need. C4D is a modular system now, you buy the base package (the cheapest of the bunch, circa 5-600 euros i think...) and then you can add all the modules you need: C4D NET (for netrendering), Bodypaint3D (3D painter, it allows you to paint onto your meshes without using Photoshop, you can even paint in real time raytracing), MOCCA (MOtion Capture and Character Animation), Pyrocluster (voxels), Thinking Particles (one of the most powerful particle systems out there), Advanced Render (Global Illumination and Caustics + some useful filters and a good DOF), Dynamics (soft and rigid bodies dynamics). You can save up a lot of money buying a bundle (XL bundle or studio bundle) that contains the base program + a custom number of modules.
8) import/export: it allows you to exchange data in a lot of formats (even lightwave files), FBX format coming soon. Perfectly integrated with Photoshop (it allows you to export in psd layers) and After Fx
9) EVERYTHING in C4D can easily be animated.
10) Xpresso editor: a nodebased editor that has been introduced in R8.0 for the 1st time, really powerful and easy, expecially when combined with Thinking Particles for particle simulation fx. Check www.peranders.com to see some good samples.
11) price ;)
Kotayus
03-30-2003, 05:46 PM
Well for me it was interface. When i started in 3d i tried max r5 (demo) and a friend had LW and XL7. I found that max for me was to busy...and i didnt understand the terminology of 3d so LW was hard to grasp. Since then, becoming more familiar i have found that cinemas layout is superb. Its easy to navigate, everything is readilly available. I think its particle system is great, very intuitive. Im not a hardcore modelor like squidinc, so i cant really speak of its modeling tools but i know that they rock. I think its mainly preference though...i have seen work in cinema that totally kicks ass...and also in max...and ive seen killer stuff in LW...its the artist, not the program, but for me i find that c4d still has the best tools, interface, matierials, post effects, render engine, and animation setup than anyother 3d prog.
hmmm geez third eye you beat me to it.
maybe I should just say.
ditto.
yeah third has about summed it up right there.
Kotayus
03-30-2003, 05:54 PM
ya, ive summed it up...thanks J :thumbsup:
Per-Anders
03-30-2003, 08:18 PM
ease of use, fun and speed. for a freelancer it's great, as you can go so quickly from concept to finished artwork, and the quality of the render engine is lovely. oh and er... dd i mention that cinema is the most fun 3d ap?.. good :)
Beechdbum
03-30-2003, 08:20 PM
its also very easy to learn if your new to 3d, but at the same time very powerful
JoelOtron
03-30-2003, 08:24 PM
Intuitive easy to use interface and tools--leads to very quick and efficient progress on your project.
Non destructive deformers and booleans.
The SLA shader system is the best feature in my opinion.
Fast renderer!
willog
03-30-2003, 08:26 PM
Yeah Thirdeye, but have you mentioned the fact that you really like the software? :-))
Hey man I cannot add to your comments other than to say I am really glad I picked this package to use, I am a new 3d user but this Cinema 3d is so incredible to use, I keep finding new ways of acheiving ways of creativity. It's a bit like going to the Art shop and picking up a brush that paints a new way and leads you to looking for more brushes.
Great Maxon keep the updates coming
Yeah, relatively easy to get into but deep enough to spend years mastering.
And like said above, it's growing up quickly.
flingster
03-30-2003, 09:39 PM
here we go again...once a month...whats so good about cinema question...and everybody rushes into to say its the best...guys...we don't need to defend it...believe me...spec for spec...its up with the best.
IMHO:
you'll have more fun learning it than any other program...
(no i won't define fun)
MukMan : no offense bud..:shrug:
hmm maybe this needs to be sticky so that we can always have the answer ready.
LucentDreams
03-30-2003, 09:42 PM
Uhm community comes to mind as well, though with recent events on another c4d forum I am starting to wonder to have a lot of doubts, not in cgtalks community which is growing more and more. :/
C4D has a great learning curve, granted the new modules are a lot more difficult to learn, thats what you get for really highend tools and features like expresso and TP.
C4D as sadie was saying is great for doing a whole prject from start to finish, its one of the few apps where learning in every area isn't too hard, if your going to leanr something like maya you may want to choose an area to focus in, I know a few maya anmators who don't know a thing about texturing rendering or modeling in maya, would jat take time they don't have to learn all areas in that app.
Oh and we have Squidinc who I think is close to if not second most advertised artist on the front page of CGtalk, falling behind the ever awe inspiring Stahlberg. Who need reson more than that?
oh and nice name mukman, I'm mukmuk in the warcraft community :)
manlio
03-30-2003, 09:53 PM
I want to add something. Cinema 4D is very very stable and has a real multiproject and multitasking environment :D. I think that a lot of times this isn't emphatized but Cinema 4D multitasking doesn't come from Winzozzz capabilities but from a great work from Maxon! :applause: I really really appreciate (I am an ex Amiga user) Cinema multitasking as I found very productive make little changes to my scenes while Cinema renders. I think the only other software that has a real multitasking is Realsoft 3D (I'm not sure it is the only one, I have never tried Softimage).
This is all fine and dandy so long as you have the minimal equiptment to run the durn thing...
I believe that if you are going to make big of the merits then a bit of common reality has a place in this discussion as well...
First off, while the earlier versions of C4D ran real quick like and did not require a large processor to run, the same cannot be said of the latest versions... Unless you are running a 533 PIII or better... but if you are still in the PII realm, well forget it... C4D v8.1 is a resourse hog big time... then again so are the latest versions of PhotoShop... surprise surprise... but these are the facts non the less... and unless you have a slower PII like I do then you won't even know what I am talking about, but believe you me, a PII 300 is totaly outclassed by this behemoth app... and this is non debateable, so don't even try... facts man, not emotional ties for what ever silly reasons... humans are a funny lot in this respect, at the best of times... funny really.
I have the LW Discovery version (small renders, but otherwise has everything, no time limits, exports perfectly ), as well the GMax version of Max, C4D v8.1 trial, as well own C4D v 5.2, trueSpace3, as well Carrara Studio2 and Metasquoia 2.2 as well LE... and the best to the last... Wings3D. To which they all work fine on my little system... I really can't say the same for C4D v7 or 8... sorry, just facts... anyhoo, onto the poly modeling aspect of things...
I have taken a cube in each app mentioned above, and box modeled out to one form or another, to which I find that Wings3D is hands down the best box modeler, with Metasquoia and C4D each coming in second for slightly different reasons... bottom line here is that niether offers the same ease of use as found in Wings3D... though there are a few features I like in both C4D as well Metasquoia that I would like to see incorped into Wings, all in all ya gotta like the work flow in Wings... so yea....
... I beg to differ when it comes to the do it all in one app suggestion... I mean don't get me wrong here, C4D does have some pretty decent modeling tools no doubt, but I really doubt for box modeling that C4D is as intuitive as is Wings3D... this is where that biased emotional side takes over from common sense... IMHO.
On the other hand, C4D becomes the perfect compliment to Wings3D in that it does offer so much more from texturing to renders, animation to FX... so there ya have it... Box modeling in Wings3D and then taken into C4D for the worx... Now we are talking common sense... :D
This is so long as you have a bigger machine to work with... ;) ;)
So there a bit of the skinny re- C4D from someone who is not biased for any set of tools, but rather just uses what works for individual (me)... :D
anybody care to elaborate further regarding these points?
imashination
03-30-2003, 11:12 PM
Pentium 2?.....
Apart from RAM usage, r8 is faster than earlier versions in every single way. Can you show me any part which is slower?
Phasmatis
03-30-2003, 11:22 PM
I've tried running Cinema 7 on an AMD 300mhz, with a voodoo3 and 92mb of ram and it as usable. A little slow sure but but it's a very dated computer.
I haven't tried 8 on that machine so I can't say anything about that.
LucentDreams
03-30-2003, 11:40 PM
most new features wouldn't be great without a better processor, but it should still run. but seriously, no 3d app should be worried about a pentium 2 anymore. Thats two generations behind. its obsolete technology, for companies to worry about whether it can be used on that kind of system, would be a backwards direction. Reason 3D keeps getting better and better, is because the systems are faster and faster allowing for nicer render features, and faster in editor feed back for modelers and nmators so they forget about the computer and worry about the art.
seriously man you should by a new PC, here in canada, I can buy an AMD 1.2 athlon 128 megs sdram with everything but monitor, fo 300-400 dollars maximum. I think thats the lowest system your going to find available for purchase now.
AdamT
03-30-2003, 11:59 PM
Why would you even *try* to run a $2000 program on a $100 computer? Okay granted, you can get the base package for only $700, but still....
squidinc
03-31-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by AdamT
Why would you even *try* to run a $2000 program on a $100 computer? Okay granted, you can get the base package for only $700, but still....
I gotta agree with that, seems utterly pointless to use highend software on a machine that was put together when dinosaurs still roamed the earth
but getting back to the point.. download all the demos.. try them.. buy the package you like... done :) , they can all produce the same output, they just vary on how you do it, find a workflow you like
trence5
03-31-2003, 01:22 AM
It's one of the easiest program to learn. It's tutorials are great
I personally found that wings 3D ran slow as molassas. while C4d can Zip along just fine and only really bogs down at about 30,000 polys in the scene. Wings slows down after like the first cube.
Cinemas interface speed really isnt what I want it to be, but I havent found an app that will run as fast as a really want. its my fault for having a slow ass machine though.
Low poly modeling should only take minimal resources to generate... ie Metasquoia, trueSpace... etc... the rest is gravy, but you would think the basics would function on any PII or higher machine... the os's do so why not the apps written upon... anyways... I do like the ui in general, and do think that it has some very solid modeling tools, just think it could have been less bloated for the base app thus allowing a wider user group is all...
AdamT
03-31-2003, 07:06 AM
I like Wings too, and it sounds like it suits you. The thing is, as you must be aware, Cinema offers much more than simple box modeling tools. It also has many modeling features that don't exist at all in Wings--just to name a few: deformers (bend, twist, taper, etc.), lofts, extrudes, lathes. Oh yeah, and animation and rendering.... But I do agree that short of Mirai, Wings/Nendo is the box modeling app par excellence.
Yea, I like Wings, but could just as well do my modeling in Metasquoia if it had but three or four features found in Wings... it sports the same rotate in 3D space and zoom features as found in Wings... and it's widgits are sim to those found in C4D v8.1... I really do think that C4D has all the tools, just really could use that rotate/zoom method... even with a new machine this one set of features alone would make all the difference in the world... and perhaps a hotkey for move>normal ;) ;)
AdamT
03-31-2003, 07:20 AM
Yeah, I agree that the navigation need work--as do the object manipulation widgets. As far as move normal, you can assign your own hotkey. Almost everything in Cinema can be customized.
LucentDreams
03-31-2003, 08:10 AM
I think everyone agrees on that
flingster
03-31-2003, 05:55 PM
truespace...gravy.
ok so does this mean we agree...don't expect to run xsi or maya on a pentium 2!
wings is a good modeller...not in doubt.
BUT..the question ....What makes cinema 4D special?
STABILTY.
LEARNING CURVE....excellent documentation, excellent tutorials, excellent and intuitive interface...
POWER.
knight42
03-31-2003, 06:16 PM
Ditto. And exactly how many 3D apps are going to run quickly on a Pentium II? I don't get that argument, 3D is a power-dependant application that requires fast kit.
And as for Truespace and gravy, at least you can pour gravy on your food and not have it crash, and lose your dinner...
J
flingster
03-31-2003, 06:23 PM
lol :eek:
cookepuss
03-31-2003, 06:38 PM
knight42: That's rich. :) I just abandoned trueSpace 6 and about $1,000 worth of plugins for that exact reason. Trying to make my short on trueSpace6 was turning into a nightmare. For small projects it's great. Large projects... not so much :hmm: C4D XL R8 is just so much better. Tacked onto my DeepPaint3D/DeepUV and I'm happier now than I was a couple of months back.
Ditto. And exactly how many 3D apps are going to run quickly on a Pentium II? I don't get that argument, 3D is a power-dependant application that requires fast kit.
Whoa up there a minute... what do you think? That the Pentium III or AMD equiv came on the scene and somebody said hey... how about 3D? we have got the power now? Too funny really.
It was only four years ago when my little PII was state of the art... and yea sure it is really slow compared to the 2+ghz monsters to be had now...
and yea... finally apps are being written towards taking advantage of the the newest vcards
And the fx and rendering is better than ever... and is truly where the power is to be used...
but for the basics of box modeling one should not require a monster machine... there are a whole host of apps which work just fine on PII machines, including as I have already mentioned...C4D v 5.2SE... I mean this version of C4D really smokes on this little system... very quick ray trace renders... good quad support... but... it is missing some of the many features found in the latest versions... and hey, yes I understand that many more features equals size of app... no doubt... just I sort of figure that basic poly modeling tools do not require a lot of processing power... niether does smart select/highlight or rotate/dolly syle ... whatever... you think what you will, I will always think basics first then the glitz...
if this principal applied in this manner with C4D v8.1 then the poly modeling tools would/should operate on any PII... as is the case with v 5.2...
and btw... I have seen some awesome worx done with smaller machines than my own, over many years I might add...
3D wasn't born just yesterday with some new PIV or something ya know...
have a good one eh... :D
wuensch
03-31-2003, 10:40 PM
heh--but when c4d 5 was born, your machine was state of the art.
Running c4d 8 on a state of the art machine is --
well-- I simply love it ;-)
a 4 year old computer is and ever was--well-- old, I guess. and slow.
And since computing powers last challenge seems to be 3d well-- it will stay that way for quite some time.
Olli
Hey hey, of course.. btw, cool avatar
knight42
04-01-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by cookepuss
knight42: That's rich. :) I just abandoned trueSpace 6 and about $1,000 worth of plugins for that exact reason.
I feel your pain. I'd racked up about £900 of stuff, in the vain hope they would actually get the thing working properly with V5, but most of the bugs I had found were still there from ts4. It's a pity, plugins like vcRad, vcCut and Shaderlab were better than TS itself.
I couldn't even sell it on ebay :(
AdamT
04-01-2003, 02:22 PM
Cheers--I'm another former tSer who just couldn't stand the crashiness anymore. trueSpace has some impressive features, but the Q&A is just horrible and GUI gets worse with each passing release. It made a lot of sense when 15" monitors were the norm, but with multiple displays and cheap big screens there's no justification for a GUI comprised of 1,000 icons.
knight42
04-01-2003, 06:20 PM
1,000 icons? Ah, you must have used the Lite version...
cookepuss
04-01-2003, 10:13 PM
LOL :thumbsup: I reviewed tS6 about 8 months ago. I think that the actual icon count for tS6 is in the range of 300-400. That's without plugins.
trueSpace eh... well version 3 is pretty good for a freebie, but nope, it really doesn't count in the grande scheme of things...
hey hey, btw, we have one day a year whereby everyone can throw out couches, appliances etc and the garbage trucks come around and pick it all up... people usually start putting therir stuff out a few days early...
anyways I picked up a Celeron 400 along with an extra 128 meg sdram... bringing the total ram to 384... and now I have tried out the C4D version 8.1 demo to which... yeehaw... no lag times, no glitches, just smooth sailing... so for those who suggested that PII's are not powerful enough I really do beg to differ... maybe the renders take longer, but... for all intensive purposes C4D renders pretty quick and yeehaw... the modeling tools all work real time... so cool... the only gripe I have with C4D is that rotate in 3D/zoom as mentioned previously, as well when selecting a face after extruding an area sometime it wants to hightlight the whole extruded area upon selection and takes one or two more times to gain just that one face selection... but yahoo it works... :D
all in all, wee, even Wing3D works smoothly even with a 4000 polgon model... which is pretty durn good considering the 1500 limit I had yesterday with my other little baby celeron... so the limit, or cut off for either app here I would suggest is in around the PII350/Celeron400 power range... for those who wish to know from trial and error here... :)
imashination
04-01-2003, 11:24 PM
I think the bottom line is, commercial 3D apps will always be developed for whatever hardware will be released in the future. I doubt that the speed at which R8 runs on a P2 even crossed the minds of the programmers. A good general rule of thumb is to spend more on hardware than you do on a single app. Now running a £2k bit of software of a 400MHz celeron?... I mean I honestly don't know what to say.
I've got 1gig CPUs and half gig ram sticks laying around on the desk, modeled together with bluetack into a little pyramid thing. You could raid a skip outside some offices for old parts and find something faster... seriously, I put together a system several years ago with scrapped parts thrown out from Whitbread offices.
R8 no longer runs on Intel P1 or AMD K6 chips, you need a P2 or duron as an absolute bare minimum.
A quick browse round the net shows you can get yourself a 1.3Ghz duron, motherboard, case, PSU, modem, audio, video, 100mbit LAN and 128megs ram for £100. Get yourself a paper round and you can have this in a few weeks... at which point it will be even faster and cheaper.
If you think that the difference between a 400mhz celeron and a 3gig system isnt worth it, then I'm sorry, but you are kidding yourself. Amiga users have been preaching this for years (and still do). Your productivity and workflow change so significantly it gives you new methods and possibilities which simply aren't possible with the slower hardware. My very modest system here costs 3 figures (£) and lets me throw around 100,000 polygons in smooth realtime. I can work with a million if needed and retain several screen updates per second. I can download stuff in the background, burn CDs and play back mp3 music without it so much as scratching my performance.
"Try it, you might like it" ;-)
haha, I look at it like this... I am now learning to box model with a better machine than I had, and one which for the most part allows me to model and render four thousand poly models with relative ease... by the time I have learned the basics , well then it will be time to upgrade to a larger machine to do what I have to do at that point in time... to which I will be able to pick up what you are currently working with for a fraction of the cost... :) :)
kevin3d
04-02-2003, 02:27 PM
This thread has been helpful. I'm looking to get a 3d app for personal & educational use (and hopefully eventually freelance). I've used 3ds max/studio @ work since DOS days but can't afford it on my own. I was going to go with lightwave but the info here has got me thinking about Cinema 4D.
I love 3D but on a practical level work at least as much in FLASH (actionscript), Director (lingo), After Effects, and Photoshop and Acrobat. The issue is it becomes difficult to switch between so many different "media"…though I enjoy the wealth of options.
From what I've seen from the demo and the website, and from what I've heard here, Cinema 4D would be the perfect app for someone like me who already has a extensive 3d background and needs one that is fairly powerful but doesn't have a lot of time to learn a new app. Also, sounds like C4D plays very well with others.
Along that line, can anyone attest to the quality of the improved Flash & Shockwave output for R8.1? Can C4D export bone deformations & animations to shockwave?
wuensch
04-02-2003, 03:30 PM
shockwave 3d output is very nice, even good complex character exports can be done (after baking IK motion to bones), no limit on bones.
A lot of export adjustments can be made.
Flash ex export is useless in my opinion (unless you want to export wireframe to flash which is fine), as the exporter quality is not very good.
Textures are not used for flash conversion,leaving you with no solution for logos etc,line tracing is unexact, looks sketchy (if you want that, it might be nice, but usually one will want a clean look i found).
You are better off rendering in cartoon mode and converting with streamline or flash integrated vectorizer, I am sorry to say.
Olli
kevin3d
04-02-2003, 03:36 PM
thanks Olli,
I more interested in the shockwave then flash anyway. I've done the rendering as toon and vectorizing it & its okay...not the most efficient but it works.
btw, S3D is right...cool avatar
I think the most important thing that makes CINEMA 4D special is its User Community :beer:
Cheers
Srek
the latest way to get a computer. dig in the teash heaps man. I wasnt even aware that this was possible. why dont you just spend a few bucks like mash suggested and get a new system.
ThirdEye
04-02-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Srek
I think the most important thing that makes CINEMA 4D special is its User Community :beer:
Cheers
Srek
Couldn't agree more Bjorn :)
kevin3d
04-02-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by JIII
the latest way to get a computer. dig in the teash heaps man. I wasnt even aware that this was possible. why dont you just spend a few bucks like mash suggested and get a new system.
I think the getting a computer that way is great!! Think about it...
get a computer, put linux, wings, blender, gimp on it for free...your set, atleast for the hoppyist.
We have those "once-a-year-throw-anything-out" days. If you drive through the well-to-do neighborhoods you can pick up some nice bikes, etc. Heck, you can probably get a decent computer desk & chair.
Right back at ya, Srek:
I think the most important thing that makes CINEMA 4D special is the guys at Maxon Germany/US/UK :beer:
Cheers
Pit
Well I suppose the community here is good but since I dont use anyother apps to check out there community's I am not sure how great this one is.
but I would say yeah this is a great community. but personally the software doesnt hurt either :)
Yea, it was pretty cool to find the parts and build a new box... we also found a 400 amd, but C4v8.1 wouldn't run on it... and the amd crashed say a half dozen times probably due to our older Ati card and driver issues... so... back out to the street it went... :D
All in all, I am one happy camper... :)
... :D
wuensch
04-03-2003, 07:35 AM
he-- thanks for liking my Avatar.
it is "Ollu the alien---"
I did him in c4d 7 and re-rigged him now with softIK and Mocca.
When I can spend some time on him again I am planning to do a little funny animation with him.
Hmm-- I will need to do a UFO for him, too.
Olli
wuensch
04-03-2003, 07:45 AM
---oh--and SREK is right, the user Community is very nice. (But to be honest, the Lightwave community is also very nice ;-))
What is very nice about c4d also is the I support(or anonymous indirect support, thanks a Million, Srek) that Maxon does.
Also they are really listening to the users input (well, they have to set priorities so some input might not be top of the list, but that will be thesame everywhere, right), thats why every update is really a blast.
---Oh, and what I always wanted to add as input:
Maxon ,please give the cartoon shader a feature where the outlines thickness can be adjusted.
1 pixel is not always enough. (Should not be too hard of a task compared to Expresso and softIK).
All the Illustrators in the community would be really happy and dance on the streets.
Olli
squidinc
04-03-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Olli Wuensch
---Oh, and what I always wanted to add as input:
Maxon ,please give the cartoon shader a feature where the outlines thickness can be adjusted.
1 pixel is not always enough. (Should not be too hard of a task compared to Expresso and softIK).
All the Illustrators in the community would be really happy and dance on the streets.
Olli
yeah, that would be cool :)
ThirdEye
04-03-2003, 12:26 PM
A new Non Photorealistic Renderer was one of the requests of the cgtalk C4D users wishlist, don't forget it :)
flingster
04-03-2003, 06:34 PM
ThirdEye_01: i presume the wishlist has been sent...have you had any response yet...you would like to let us know about?
eg yeah sure...we'll do all the requests...or even get lost...a maxon response would be good...that way we know they listen...in a caring touchie feelie way!!!:applause:
ThirdEye
04-04-2003, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by flingster
ThirdEye_01: i presume the wishlist has been sent...have you had any response yet...you would like to let us know about?
I'm sure they got the wishlist and the betateam's read it, these are the only 2 things at the moment i'm sure about .
i am sure i will be happy if they do all that stuff.
thats what i am sure of.
flingster
04-04-2003, 05:39 PM
what did sort of impressions/feedback did you get from the betateam?
ThirdEye
04-04-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by flingster
what did sort of impressions/feedback did you get from the betateam?
1) many things we added are some kind of "every 2 weeks request", it means a lot of things have already been asked for ages
2) the betateam agrees with our requests
flingster
04-04-2003, 05:56 PM
cool...glad things have moved on...well done here on your efforts...its all very valiant....i just hope we see a positive spin on it all....which i'm sure we will...but you just never know.
:thumbsup:
ThirdEye
04-04-2003, 05:57 PM
What makes C4D so special? It's simple, you have the best forum mods of the world! :scream: :D
LucentDreams
04-04-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
What makes C4D so special? It's simple, you have the best forum mods of the world! :scream: :D
hahaha
Actually One important one I"d like to add to our list.
THe beta testing team. Some of them have been around for some five years. It can be a tough process at time, often frustrating to see X featurew will be added while z feature you requested will not even though you feel yours is more important, making sure not to tell anyone else about new features till they let you. Dealing with really unstbale packages that the normal users don't have too. But they get the job done, and they've been doing it for a long time. C4D wouldnt' be what it is today without them. I thank them very much for that.
Third Party Developers. Many people say they bought C4d partly because of SLA. Thats an extreme example, but thridparty developers have been finding the gaps or areas maxon just doesn't have the time to work on right now, and makes the app complete. THey more often than not provide these plugins for free, which is a big sacrifice to them, all that time and effort making a tool that will helpmany of us make more money, and tey get nothing in return.
Maxon and the programmers especially. They put up with testers who especially at feature freeze time get really rowdy andoften make comments they don't realy mean, users who complain about this that and the other thing that maxon's needs to be come a professional app right after they release a FREE upgrade including awesome features like HDRI. THey make the package and tols we use everyday, many of us to make our bread and butter, and I don't think they get nearly the thanks they often deserve.
MukMan
04-14-2003, 12:41 AM
Wow. I was just curious as to the special advantages of CInema4D and I get a 5 page thread to read through! Thanks you all very much for your opinions. I am working now to figure out the copy of Cinema 4D 5.31 our school has now.
ThirdEye
04-14-2003, 12:47 AM
I can only say C4D is in good hands folks, we've seen some fantastic updates and awesome responses from Maxon, but future will be even better, trust me, we'll talk about this in 2 years. ;)
wuensch
04-14-2003, 07:29 AM
--do yourself a favour and check out the demo of c4d 8 at www.maxon.com
A lot has changed since version 5--
a great lot.
Olli
ThirdEye
04-14-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Olli Wuensch
--do yourself a favour and check out the demo of c4d 8 at www.maxon.com
A lot has changed since version 5--
a great lot.
Olli
The only things that didn't change:
stability
speed
great manuals
ease of use
philosophy
squidinc
04-14-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
The only things that didn't change:
stability
speed
great manuals
ease of use
philosophy
well said thirdeye, brings a tear to my eye *salutes*
hehe, lol:beer:
ThirdEye
04-14-2003, 02:24 PM
hahahahaha i love this app too much! :scream: :D
read this thread, it will totally convince you that maxon makes Cinema special.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56130&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Man I am glad I dont have to deal with that NewTek company.
cesario1212
05-03-2003, 07:33 PM
I have just downloaded the demo of C4D, but I have not had much time to mess with it. I'm a LW user. Two Q's
1. A faster renderer?: I have a million poly mesh (in LW with subpatching at a level of 6). LW cranks out the baby with 4 lights, medium antialiasing, and 50% motion blur in about a minute at full frame (720x306 [2.25:1]). I imported the model into c4d, put on anti-aliasing and motion blur, put the subpatch level at 6 and rendered to the picture viewer (rendering view went fairly quickly). When I rendered to p.v. the render times were gi-normous--well over two minutes. I keep reading how c4d has the faster renderer, but I didn't seem to get those results--even when I popped in a native c4d human model that said it was only 10,000 polys with only two lights. Someone please prove me wrong, because I am looking to switch software packages and get out of LW.
2. Does c4d have comparable animation tools to LW? Bones, weighting, same (or preferably better and more intuitive) IK, deformers, deformation objects, etc.?
cesario1212
wuensch
05-03-2003, 07:47 PM
hard to confirm the rendertimes with a single frame rendering in editor--
As for your feature list:
In comparison of features both LW and c4d do well.
Both have excellent renderers Btw.
LW has some strength in Hypervoxels and Modelling.
C4d in non-destructive modelling and Thinking Particles, easier expression system and interface (which is very subjective of course) etc--
I am not the one to judge it, as I only tested LW 6 that days (then LW was superior to c4d 6 featurewise, but c4d has made up a lot of ground since then).
CA can be done fairly well, although c4d lacks power user CA features like mapping hierarchies between Characters easily.
But I am sure its on the next update-list.
I would advise you to try out the demo and read through the Pdf-manual that can be downloaded from
http://www.maxon.de
Olli
Hi Cesario,
are you aware that the CINEMA 4D R8 Hypernurbs subdivisons increases by the square? Using a subdivision of 6 will turn a 8 point cube into a 24000 point object.
If you do this with let's say the Otto character provided with R8 that 7500 Poly character will turn into a 1.72 Million Poly monster.
Also the render and light default settings are very different in LW and CINEMA so you can't compare them directly.
Cheers
Srek
I have really never seen someone use Hypernurbs set over 3 or maybe four.
but if you really need all that smoothing you probibly need to redesign your mesh. I mean HyperNUrbs of 6 is insane.
LucentDreams
05-04-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by JIII
I have really never seen someone use Hypernurbs set over 3 or maybe four.
but if you really need all that smoothing you probibly need to redesign your mesh. I mean HyperNUrbs of 6 is insane.
Not when using displacement maps :/
Otherwise I agree its pretty crazy
With that one exception, HN of 3 is the absolute max you should ever need to use.
ThirdEye
05-04-2003, 01:43 AM
I think he simply increased the subds level to test the speed of the renderer.
Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
I think he simply increased the subds level to test the speed of the renderer.
Ah. Two minutes for a million polys in Cinema sounds pretty fast to me, so if LW does it in less time than that, then maybe it is faster.
Of course Cinema has 16x16 edge aa which will make a difference, as will a dozen other facters.
I think we need a more scientific test before we can really decide on this.
I mean what's next cinema's renderer is slow because of Pyrocluster?
If we used that as a render benchmark I think Cinema would come out slowest. Or at least I have heard it would.
How about a real world example? This test render I did tonight of a WIP rendered in ten minutes, 37 seconds at 640x480. The scene has 4299 objects, and 2,156,854 rendered polys.
Sorry about the heavy jpg compression.
Thalaxis
05-04-2003, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by JIII
If we used that as a render benchmark I think Cinema would come out slowest. Or at least I have heard it would.
That would be pretty hard to test, but I think that Cinema's ray tracer would come out pretty close to the front of the pack, at least in the 8.1 version.
Of course, that's also something that can change every time a new renderer or version of a new renderer hits the streets, which only makes it even more difficult to test. How much value there is in having the fastest renderer on the market for 2 weeks seems pretty questionable :)
Thalaxis i was refering to if we put Pyro up against Hypervoxels from LW.
i should be a litttle more clear about that next time.
Thalaxis
05-04-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by JIII
Thalaxis i was refering to if we put Pyro up against Hypervoxels from LW.
In that case, I misunderstood... and I would have to say that HV would run circles around Pyro, which isn't exactly what I'd call a stellar volumetric engine.
Taiki rules, though!
Brucie Rosch
05-04-2003, 08:32 PM
Hey MV (MJV), that scene is looking great!
pixel8or
05-06-2003, 09:06 PM
Two things that come to mind that makes C4D special.
Availability - The cost was a big thing for me as a student. The acedemic pricing on the 8.0 XL package is unbelievable for a program of this kind!
Usability - The layout, the tools, the manual and tutorials all make this a very user friendly program. I took a class using 3DS Max and for two years doodled with Max... bought books, downloaded tutorials, etc., but I always felt like there was just sooo much to learn to get anywhere. Not to put down Max, I know it's a great program, but my personal experience with it was discouraging.
With C4D, the more I use it, the more I WANT to get into it. It makes me feel like I'm getting somewhere even though I don't know a great deal about 3D, yet.:)
CGTalk Moderation
01-14-2006, 06:00 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
vBulletin v3.0.5, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.