Review of Quidam 1.5

[cookepuss]

Pretty decent review. A bit short for my taste, as it doesn't really go far beyond the party line to address the underlying faults and lasting appeal.

I reviewed v1.2 a little more than 3 months ago. It's nice to see that N-Sided has addressed two of the biggest complaints I had with v1.2 - particularly skeleton editing and QDM import. Both features were sorely lacking/missing from the program.

The one problem area that they have still not rectfied or even addressed yet has been price. I noticed that this review only barely addresses the "sold separately" issue, which greatly factors into the program's overall worth.QUIDAM (Core app) = €199 (~$267 USD)
Low Poly Access Plug-in €300 (~$401 USD)
QUIDAM to Maya Plug-in €75 ($100 USD)
QUIDAM to Cinema 4D Plug-in €75 ($100 USD)
QUIDAM to Carrara Plug-in €75 ($100 USD)
QUIDAM to Lightwave Plug-in €75 ($100 USD)
The basic program itself is certainly less valuable of an asset without the LPA plugin and at least one exchange plugin. The LPA plugin alone makes the overall program much more of a tool and less of a toy. So, assuming that you want the "real program" and not the stripped version that they sell as the core app then you have to buy all 3 pieces. Do the math. That's a little less than $800 USD at current exchange rates. Tack on any more than one exchange plugin...

Granted, you're not compelled to buy anything more than the core app. However, the program's usefulness declines sharply without the LPA plugin, which itself costs 50% more than the base application. For those who haven't purchase or played with the app, the LPA plugin is pretty basic in its design and operation. The higher price, imho, is to place more of a value on the content (meshes) than the actual app itself. To some degree, that level of imbalance makes me question the whole pricing structure and how the company perceives the intrinsic value of the core app. Anyway, I digress.

Even with the few improvements that have seemingly been made between v1.2 and v1.5, I find it extremely hard to see this program being worth $800. Plus, the longer I actually spent with v1.2 of the app the more the novelty wore off and the weaknesses became quite apparent. As a whole, the program seems competent enough, not $800 competent, but competent nonetheless. Look at the individual sub-apps though.

There's almost something toy-like about the depth to those individual editors. At least in v1.2, which was only a scant months ago, they lacked a certain level of polish and depth that would be required for Quidam to be valuable in a non-hobbyist pipeline. These individual editors still need to be far more robust and balanced.

Factoring in the upgrades in v1.5, some of the key issue/problems still remain. Editing in Quidam is more or less still limited to vertex shifting, restricted by the constraints of the underlying cage's poly definition. At least from the published spec, sculpting still doesn't seem to have moved into Silo/ZBrush/Mudbox territory, which is a shame really when you couple it with the aforementioned vertex shifting limitation. The variety of brush tools still seems to be relatively small and underwhelming in scope. The usefulness of the QDM exchange plugin still remains relatively questionable, although the recent addition of QDM import to the core app makes a slight case in favor of purchase. Those are a but a few of the problems with Quidam I had during my review period.

I think that by v2.0 or v2.5, Quidam will be what most users would consider a "mature" application. Right now, based on both your v1.5 review and my own recent v1.2 review, it seems that it's playing a bit of catch up with its competitors. It needs a whole lot more substance to justify the purchase price.

To me at least, Quidam feels like a "jack of all trades, yet master of none" sort of app. It wants to be all things to all people and it ends up coming up short in several key areas.



EDIT>>> Let's also note the "fine print". If the LPA plugin is of most use to real-time content creators such as game makers then you have to adhere to the issue of further licensing costs. In that case, the price point probably shifts upward radically. That, afaik, is something that's only addressed in the fine print of the terms of use listed in the manual.


EDIT 2>>> For those of you who actually read my v1.2 review on InsideCG, my opinion of Quidam still remains mostly positive. It's not a bad program. It's just not as badass as it could've been. It does show a lot of promise and potential. However, after 3+ months, the novel concept has worn off and some of the nagging drawbacks stand out most prominently in my memory.

[elfguy]

I've been using 1.5 and have to say I disagree with your outlook of it. First, I paid $340 CDN for it. Quidam has a 20% sale right now, plus the cost of the MAX plugin, it really is in line with other 3D software. I did not buy the low poly plugin, and I disagree that it's a must have. The default Quidam program has 3 levels of sub-division, where a typical character starts at around 30k polygons, going up to around 200k. The only reason for the low poly plugin is if you want to import them in game engines, and need a lower poly count than that, so for that purpose yes it starts being expensive.

The sculpting obviously doesn't have the same level of access as direct manipulation like in MAX or another true 3D modeler, but it's purpose is to create unique characters, so by default it has limits so the character stays realistic. I believe you can turn those off however. I do think it's sculpting abilities is what makes it a unique program, and one of the big reasons for it, because so far, the world has always been divided between 'posing' applications like Poser and DAZ, where you only have access to pre-made characters, with limited morphes, and true modeling apps, where you basically have to start with a fresh mesh, but have none of the automatic posing or rigging abilities.

I think the second big point of this app is the export plugins. I've tried and messed with lots of trials and demos, and so far importing and exporting between apps has always been a painful area, as I think most people would agree. With these plugins, you make your char in Quidam, then you can directly import it in your 3D app along with all the textures, UV maps, rigging and skinning painlessly.

On your licensing point, I agree it's too bad and wish they would change that, but I would point out it's the exact same license as all Poser and DAZ characters have. If you start with your own mesh and rig it in Quidam you have no such restrictions.

I agree with your conclusion that it's still a young program and that in 2.0 and further it could really become something big. Personally what I wish for is custom brushes, more development in the sculpting studio, and some relaxing in the license department.

[cookepuss]

I've been using 1.5 and have to say I disagree with your outlook of it.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion.

First, I paid $340 CDN for it. Quidam has a 20% sale right now, plus the cost of the MAX plugin, it really is in line with other 3D software.
If you count just the core app and QDM plugin then what you say is entirely true. Alone, the program is fairly reasonably priced. However, when you add in the LPA plugin, which I still maintain is a necessity, the cost rises sharply and the effective "bang for the buck" ratio shifts quite awkwardly away from Quidam's favor.

I did not buy the low poly plugin, and I disagree that it's a must have. <snip> The only reason for the low poly plugin is if you want to import them in game engines, and...
That's not the only reason. It's not even the best reason. If anything, the low poly cages are not sound enough, from a topological standpoint, to be directly used in a game engine.

The actual underlying topology leaves quite a bit to be desired at the joint level, which makes deformation a little less than pretty. More over, there are a handful of n-gons that would have to be resolved. Plus, the actual poly organization and layout isn't optimized for real-time work (read: games.) Realistically, you'd have to rework, refine, and otherwise redo all of those edges and edge loops if you wish to animate the low poly characters.

To me at least, the biggest benefit of LPA is in being directly exposed to the underlying cage. With low poly access, you CAN rework the bad topology. You CAN add in or subtract surface detail to the cage to create a truly unique character. You CAN sculpt in sub-poly detail and use the cage as a base mesh. You might have to do it outside of Quidam, but it's all possible with LPA. Without, the LOD is at the very least 4x greater than what is absolutely necessary for a bare minimum base mesh. That is really an inherent flaw/quality of Catmull-Clark subdivision.

There's a time and a place for a low poly base mesh. Low poly is not the exclusive domain of gaming or web 3d content. There are other reasons to for it. High poly modelers use low poly too. The LPA plugin's strength is not necessarily in creating game quality low poly models, as the underlying toplogy isn't optimized for that. LPA's greatest strength is in ditching the requirements and limitations of Catmull-Clark subdivided meshes.

The sculpting obviously doesn't have the same level of access as direct manipulation like in MAX or another true 3D modeler, but it's purpose is to create unique characters, so by default it has limits so the character stays realistic.
That's almost a self-contradictory statement, as sculpting is typically there to promote and enhance realism. As far as the tools go, there could still be more of them, imo.

I do think it's sculpting abilities is what makes it a unique program, and one of the big reasons for it
Unique for a posing tool. True. Not so unique in the world of modelers. Remember, Quidam has one foot in each world, as it's borrowing traits from both modelers and posers. In that regard, it has to meet some expectations from users of both types of apps.

then you can directly import it in your 3D app along with all the textures, UV maps, rigging and skinning painlessly.
That certainly depends on your definition of rigging and skinning. Quidam's version is skinning at its most basic level, at least from what I've seen in v1.2. Real rigging involves a mess of constraints, controls, targets, and various other things - all of which are absolutely necessary to move beyond simple posing. Honestly, Quidam doesn't rig the model so much as it skins it, something that could be easily done by an intermediate CG user 5-10 minutes.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear your opinion. Thanks.

~Rob~

[andyhalls123]

cookepuss, can you post the link of your review 1.2.

[cookepuss]

Please note that my review was for v1.2. This thread is about a v1.5 review. Keep that in mind while reading. Certain changes have been made to Quidam that most certainly would've negated some of my earlier criticisms.

http://www.insidecg.com/2007/04/30/n-sided-quidam-v12-review/

Enjoy.


BTW, I perfectly respect each and every opinion, which is really what a review is. No such thing as a bad opinion, unless its totally uninformed. Besides, as we all know, opinions are like backsides. We all have one and they all stink. :D

[elfguy]

I'm still starting up so I didn't know about the other uses for the low poly plugin. Obviously this program isn't for everyone. An experienced modeler who can make characters quickly and rig, skin them in any random modeling app would have no use for this. If you need photorealistic characters for a feature film you're going to have people with years of experience to make them.

Still in just a few weeks I made unique characters, exported them and made animations, included them with Bryce environments, vehicle models, without having to start with the hardest part of 3D which is to create and rig characters from scratch, and still end up with scenes that don't look bad or require buying or downloading every character models elsewhere. I can easily see this program being used in many fields like animation, architecture, logos, short videos, low budget projects, etc.

[cookepuss]

I'm still starting up so I didn't know about the other uses for the low poly plugin. Obviously this program isn't for everyone. An experienced modeler who can make characters quickly and rig, skin them in any random modeling app would have no use for this.
Given your admitted inexperience, I can understand where you're coming from. It should also be noted that an experienced modeler or animator could still find Quidam useful. Suppose you have to quickly flesh out a background crowd or need a rough proof of concept. Quidam would certainly be a whole lot more time & cost efficient than modeling something from scratch. Suppose you want to quickly tweak your own "universal man" mesh into an army of unique characters. In some cases, Quidam's soft gel brushes are more efficient or even quicker.

For a professional, Quidam can serve its purpose as a quick prototyping tool and even as a mesh tweaker. Quidam can also work well for use in 3D storyboards, in situations where Poser might not offer you exactly the sort of controls you need or desire. Quidam manages to serve several audiences fairly well, mainly because it's a crossover product that borrows its design from both the posing and modeling world.

If you need photorealistic characters for a feature film you're going to have people with years of experience to make them.
True, but you'd be surprised exactly how tricky feature film makers can be. For example, iirc, I believe that the far shots of the pod race crowd in Star Wars Episode I were actually just colored Q-tips blown about. A lot of the time, it's not about what's technically right or wrong. It's about what gets the job done.

still end up with scenes that don't look bad or require buying or downloading every character models elsewhere.
True. Although it should be noted that if you build a 100 characters from the same base mesh they may look different, but they share a certain degree of likeness. A real world example of this might be the background characters in Pixar's "The Incredibles". Characters such as the prinicpal, the teacher, the Underminer, and the guy suing Mr Incredible were all created from the same base mesh.

The may look different, but they share the same distinct style. Not just by design, but by practical limitation. They're part of the same "family", if you will. So, you might get a 1,000 fairly unique characters from one Quidam mesh, but - unless you radically deform the mesh - you can kinda get the feeling that they're "related" in some slight way.

Nothing wrong with that, btw. It IS nice that Quidam allows you to import your own stuff since you won't always want the same vibe.

I can easily see this program being used in many fields like animation, architecture, logos, short videos, low budget projects, etc.
Some of those fields. Yeah. Others... Not as much, especially architecture where RPC assets might make more sense.

Lots of potential uses for Quidam. I agree with you 100%.

[andyhalls123]

I also came to know one 3d challenge where you can win QUIDAM or participants can get discount on their purchase

http://www.cgarena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30792

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.