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View Full Version : Dogfight, Arai (3D)


arai
03-28-2003, 09:32 PM
http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/647/dogfight_medium.jpg (http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/647/dogfight.jpg)

training for the real thing until I build a me 109 for him to fight with ;)




hopefully the bandwidth will hold. I'm putting it on a friends account until I can get home tonight



-arai-

nObedienz
03-28-2003, 09:59 PM
I like it, I like it alot!
Nothing to add whatsoever :buttrock:

MetallDragon
03-28-2003, 10:23 PM
nice work :applause:
But the Messetschmidt 109 was a german airkraft.
This one is british.

BiTMAP
03-28-2003, 10:26 PM
yes, he said he's going to build the 109 for this to fight with, that looks like spitfires.

arai
03-28-2003, 10:30 PM
thanks metaldragon but ?? thats why I said I need to make a me 109. so I can actually have something to dogfight with. as it is, its just 2 typhoons in the pic. hense the "training for the real thing"

though for the typhoon it might be more accurate to portray it in a fight with a FW, or chasing down a do 217.

colt
03-28-2003, 10:51 PM
That looks really great, almost like a photo. Only the glass is too shiny/reflective, but the other textures kick ass.
:buttrock:

arai
03-29-2003, 02:11 AM
yeah the cockpit is way too clean. thanks for the crit. will be changing tonight

vfx
03-29-2003, 09:57 AM
simply excellent, some few holes, but i ain't see a ww2 plane looking this detailed at such a high res - nice work.

Caman0
03-29-2003, 11:56 AM
stunning work, really great looking

cyberjunkie
03-29-2003, 12:25 PM
Most Awesome! :p
Looks great.

=3D= Modeller
03-29-2003, 01:34 PM
Nice work Mate, LOVE IT!!! I am working on a 3d model of an me 109 now. maybe some time we can compare notes.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Psycholink
03-29-2003, 02:06 PM
Very nice!
maybe make animation?

can you post a wirefire?

Mr_BUG
03-29-2003, 02:14 PM
very subtle details, this is good, and the fact that the glass looks too clean isn't that bad. Stunning cg, i love the whole scene, the composition and the impression are great

bmundy
03-29-2003, 06:34 PM
Yes vary NICE………but the plain in the rear,……. the ruttier is in the wrong position if it was banking to the right. Sorry but it cough my eye right off the bat.

just nit-picking

My Fault
03-29-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by bmundy
Yes vary NICE………but the plain in the rear,……. the ruttier is in the wrong position if it was banking to the right. Sorry but it cough my eye right off the bat.

just nit-picking

No, the image is correct. The ailerons are what is causing the plane to roll to the right.

Gorgeous image! :beer:

mmiller
03-30-2003, 02:31 AM
Hi Arai
Nice image:thumbsup:

I'm wondering if you desaturated the image.
or maybe a hue shift?
I think it might be better if there was a little more color.
particularly on the foreground aircraft.

But, i must admit, the color range does work well in terms of integrating the overall image.

Mark

[DSmod]Tweak
03-30-2003, 02:46 AM
Very very very awsome.:thumbsup:

Gremlin
03-30-2003, 03:18 AM
looks great.... what package did you use? how long did it take to render? when will some animations be available? :D
awesome work!
Cheers,
:beer:

cwispy
03-30-2003, 03:33 AM
Makes me think of Rockwell. Nice rendering style and very realistic.

facial
03-31-2003, 04:09 AM
Nice copositing work here. I love it. :thumbsup:

blastzone
03-31-2003, 08:23 AM
hey man have him fighting a 190 i love and hate those things but that is great id love to be able to model and texture like that... o well never mind . oh and u want a suggestion make a pic of one of them going down like on fire makes for a great image

Tad
03-31-2003, 08:36 AM
Please tell me that background is a photo!!

whether it is or isnt,
the image is quite a masterpiece,
maybe some adjustments to the posing of the first plane could be done to make it utter perfection.

But also, I like it with just two similar planes,
the whole "dogfight" thing has been done, and done again.

having two comrades soaring together is a bit more original :)

dominicqwek
03-31-2003, 08:45 AM
Great work u got there!! i love mustangs.. do post an animation soon :D

the plane in the bg seems as saturated as the one in the foreground. maybe u should tone it down a bit so there'll be a bit more depth. just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Aeroplane
03-31-2003, 02:07 PM
:scream: coooooool!!:buttrock: :buttrock:
:beer: I like it!:applause:

Ian Christie
03-31-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by dom
i love mustangs..
Cheers

They're british Typhoons, not American Mustangs. :) Mustangs are still cool though.

Very nice work, and yes, the 2 comrades soaring together andgoofing around a bit is an original composition, you don't see much of that.

arai
04-01-2003, 05:38 PM
update

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/01-222098.jpg

mmiller
04-01-2003, 07:50 PM
Aria
I think this latest image has some composition problems.
The way the wings almost line up with that runway running diagonaly across the image is ... awkward.
and then the fuse almost lining up with the runway that is coming out toward the viewer is also awkward.

That background image has some extremly strong elements and your aircraft will need to be placed in way that provides a strong counterpoint.

Just my opinion;)
Mark

prodag
04-01-2003, 10:13 PM
I like it , in spite of the fact that the angle of the plane is not like it supposed to be in such potision of the flaps ,rudder...

arai
04-01-2003, 10:44 PM
in still pics angle of flaps and rudder dont mean anything. as it could be the start of a roll correction etc. I do agree that theres some composition errors on this one though. didnt spend as much time on this one as the one on page 1


-arai-

prodag
04-01-2003, 11:00 PM
My answer was to pic 1 , "as it could be the start of a roll correction etc" no way" ! the plane react faster then you can think ! it's look like he is in the oppisite direction !

BiTMAP
04-01-2003, 11:23 PM
IT could be the start of a roll minue the blurring.

Jagger
04-02-2003, 03:06 AM
Your first compositon is great but i do belive the flaps are off.

And its not the direction but from what i understad the flaps on the front wings are only used during take off. Its the rear flaps that adjust the pitch of the plane... well thats what i remember any ways.

But the first scene looks great, hate to nitpick the little things but.. umm ya its done.

My Fault
04-02-2003, 03:27 AM
Heheh, bunch of armchair pilots around here :p

Seriously though, take it from someone who has actually flown (yeah, it's been many, many years), the control deflections on flaps, ailerons, elevator and rudder are all fine.

You'll notice the flaps (the ones closest inboard on the wings) are near neutral (slightly drooping, believe me when those flaps are dropped you'd know it). Ailerons (outer tips of wing) are set for a roll to the right. Elevator (horizontal stab on rear) is also near neutral. Rudder (vertical stab on the rear) is left which in this instance could be used to help correct the plane from diving in the roll.

And Arai is right, in most instances you can't really tell because in a still you don't know what the plane may have been doing before or is going to do in the future. In an animation yes, but for a still, in most cases, no.

arai
04-02-2003, 03:56 AM
I nitpick big time, so feel free to let me know what you think. I admit that ocasionally I'll change something as more of an artistic license than factual detail. But yeah I really feel that stills just cant give you an idea of whats going on in the scene for control surfaces. I'll get some animations going then you can feel free to comment

M_Orlich
04-02-2003, 04:51 AM
super tight, arai! i really like the clouds in the mid-ground. i'd love to know how you did them.

i see what what you're saying about taking artistic license, but it's a bit confusing to the viewer, because you have it looking so realistic other than a few things that they come off more like oversights than diliberate choices.

matthew

BiTMAP
04-02-2003, 06:11 AM
I remeber going to the local air museum, those planes are amazingly small... which surprised me, but also impressed me :D I love the typhoon. That thing musta been nimble becuase of its tiny size. Have you modeled the inside? if so i would love renders with nice compositing from the cockpit :D

Chaos Maximus
04-02-2003, 06:19 AM
nice stuff, im impressed with you ability to color match in post. i agree the second is not as good as the first, it just doesnt hold attention the same. The runway is pulling attention towards the mountain, which would be cool, if there was some other planes just visable over the mountain then mabey it would help, but as is it doesnt.

good luck with it

Per-Anders
04-02-2003, 08:26 AM
that's a good image executed brilliantly. well done:thumbsup:

Eman597
04-05-2003, 04:32 AM
what app? do you have some test animations yet? this is too good a start to abadon now!

mushroomgod
04-05-2003, 11:43 AM
both images are wonderfull

though a little les saturation in the last image would help it alot i think

PotatoHead
04-05-2003, 12:35 PM
stunning images, however, as mentioned previously, the second one contains some composition flaws. the plane closer to the camera should have its rear rotated a little down towards the ground. excellent work!! its really worth the plug!

Eman597
04-05-2003, 01:10 PM
potoatohead:: hes already said that you cant tell from the stills whether or not the mechanics are right, wait until the animation to critique that kind of stuff.:shame:

mmiller
04-05-2003, 01:44 PM
While I agree that in a still any configuration of control surface is feasable, I don't beleve that this means that it should be ignored.

If the intent is to try and illustrate movment, then control surface orientation can be a valuable visual clue as to what is happening. Let's face it, you don't have many oppertunities to show animation in an image like this.
So you need to make use of what few tools are available.

Of course, it depends on what you are trying to do with a particular image.

That being said, this whole issue can be a huge pain ;)
Mark

Leonard
04-05-2003, 02:26 PM
Great work. Just added you to the gallery.

Leo

stephen2002
04-05-2003, 02:45 PM
looks great! The color matching is top-notch; assuming that the backgrounds are indeed photos and not CG.

I have to agree that the 2nd pic's composition could be slightly improved, but it looks ok the way it is.

SCIFI-3D-zoo
04-05-2003, 03:14 PM
It's more obvious on the 2nd image that it's a composite. But what about the 1st one. It's fantastic. :drool:

Is it a photo composite also? If not then discuss with us the tools and methods used for the ground and the clouds, and other effects , etc. Sweet.

Cheers.

MaDSheeP
04-05-2003, 03:22 PM
oh wow, that looks fantastic! awesome work =)

mmiller
04-05-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by SCIFI_3D_zoo
It's more obvious on the 2nd image that it's a composite. But what about the 1st one. It's fantastic. :drool:

Is it a photo composite also?
I think I can answer this one
the first image is a composite as well.

In fact, I believe I have flown over this same piece of ground several times myself.:cool:

for some reason that series of background images have an almost magical ability to integrate with CG elements.

You can find them here curtesy of Jeremy Engleman:
http://www.art.net/~jeremy/

dflipb
04-05-2003, 03:48 PM
I might suggest a slight off focus of the runway for the second one. I think it might separate foreground from background. IMHO

Mark

phoenix2k
04-05-2003, 04:26 PM
wow... those planes are amazing :airguitar

arai
04-05-2003, 05:14 PM
mmiler knows where the first bg comes from ;) I guess its easier for me to justify where the control surfaces are because when I set up the image I already have the animation in my head. I can see the exact reason why they are where they are. I'll try and get and animation going so the control surface critiques can have something better to look at.

thanks for all the comments guys, the tyhpoons were all built in lightwave and textured in photoshop. I dont have any test animations yet as I've got all kinds of things on the go. You might have noticed my helicopter shot that was on the front page the other day. It breaks up the day but makes any updates on a singular image a bit slow. I'll post them as I get the them.


-arai-

Voxel57
04-05-2003, 05:28 PM
Very nice!
I love Tyhpoons!
Great airplane sed a lot for ground support.
Blow up some trains!!!!

swampthing
04-05-2003, 06:38 PM
Well if you REALLY wanna be critical about the aielrons and rudder position....then they are BOTH wrong. You don't need constant aileron input in a turn, and using opposite rudder in a turn would cause sideslip and create a huge gunning inaccuracy. Honestly for a still pic I'd make sure the control surfaces are fairly neutral because even if you do get them "right" for the position the aircraft is in they'll still be wrong in some way. Easier to just avoid it....

Btw, the typhoon wasn't much of a dogfighter, and a me109 would in most cases outfly it. A more historically accurate target would be a V1 or a ground target of some type.

hanzo
04-05-2003, 07:02 PM
Make it BW and put film grain, tweek it in ps and you'll got ya self a photo...well? :beer: you know what I mean..

BiTMAP
04-05-2003, 07:26 PM
pls, i rather like the new look :D it is old, but looks like it was just taken!

Geco
04-05-2003, 08:05 PM
i like it. :)

santiago
04-05-2003, 11:03 PM
that's insane

Howzat
04-06-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by swampthing
Well if you REALLY wanna be critical about the aielrons and rudder position....then they are BOTH wrong. You don't need constant aileron input in a turn, and using opposite rudder in a turn would cause sideslip and create a huge gunning inaccuracy. Honestly for a still pic I'd make sure the control surfaces are fairly neutral because even if you do get them "right" for the position the aircraft is in they'll still be wrong in some way. Easier to just avoid it....

Btw, the typhoon wasn't much of a dogfighter, and a me109 would in most cases outfly it. A more historically accurate target would be a V1 or a ground target of some type.

ummm it doesn't matter if the rudder position would cause sideslip and gunning inaccuracy because it isn't a dogfight that's being depicted, they are two typhoons flying together!
Same with your dogfighter comment, not applicable here because there are no enemies, they might be flying off for a ground attack mission or something :beer:

Great image!

Edit: but then again it is going to be a dogfight once he's built the 109 so maybe your points will be valid then.... anyway it doesn't really matter does it :shrug: it's still cool.

Erik
04-06-2003, 08:48 AM
I like your two pics, wath did u use to have this beautiful motion blur with the "propeller " ?
i think the background of the second pic is too recent, in fact the majority of the airfield were out of ground...
"hope you can understand my bad english :/ "
good job :beer:

Skyraider3D
04-06-2003, 12:58 PM
Hey Arai! :wavey:

Congrats on the 'plug' :)

Very very nice work!

Three things that need tweaking IMHO though, are already mentioned before:
* canopy glass needs (I always struggle with that myself)
* flight control positions (despite all that's been said before, stillas/animations/dogfights/whatever, they don't seem right and distract from the composition)
* invasion stripes on the inside of the flap (I believe the inside of flaps was painted matt black on RAF planes - definately no invasion stripes there)

The second composition has indeed some odd problems, despite looking very cool. Also the background is a bit odd, with a modern runway in what seems to be a tropical setting and all...

Anyway, great work as always, and really looking forward to your helicopter :)

As a last comment, may I suggest a different opponent than the Me 109? That one has been modelled a zillion times by others already! How about an Me 410 perhaps? Or Arado 234 or the Do 217 you suggested yourself. Anything but a 109 :) A Fw 190 would already be better. Despite the fact it has been modelled many times before as well, few people got it right, and most of all: it's one of my favorite planes :beer:

Keep up the good work mate! :thumbsup:

My Fault
04-06-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Skyraider3D
A Fw 190 would already be better. Despite the fact it has been modelled many times before as well, few people got it right, and most of all: it's one of my favorite planes :beer:

Keep up the good work mate! :thumbsup:

Ah yes, few things beat the majestic beauty of a long-nosed "Dora" :thumbsup:

lildragon
04-06-2003, 11:25 PM
The first image is excellent! I really dig the details and the general look. The only thing that sorta puzzles me is the lighting, it's GI no? but yet it's a bit hmm, I dunno, but I do love the image, even tho I'm not a plane freak ;)

You have received the CGtalk choice award .Please feel free to display this image anywhere you like! Very very nice work.

upon receiving this award, it guarantees you a spot in the cgtalk gallery hall of fame (http://gallery.cgtalk.com) - which you are now placed

http://www.cgtalk.com/plug_award/cgtalk_award_apr03.jpg

P.S. Please email me @ tito@cgnetworks.com for the award .psd file

salud

Skyraider3D
04-06-2003, 11:51 PM
Congrats Arai! :)
You deserve it!



Originally posted by lildragon:
even tho I'm not a plane freak
Shame, but at least you recognise good 3D art when you see it! ;)

ZVAN
04-07-2003, 04:16 PM
WOW! VERY COOL!!!!!!!! like the poses and so on! COOL!!!!:drool: :love: love it!!!!!!!

gom3z
05-15-2003, 01:10 PM
Very nice rendering...
As My Fault said earlier the rudder can be use to correct a roll... but in this shot, it's way too much.
In addition (I dunno if it's been mention before as I've not read all the comments)... the right aileron seems to be missing or my sight is getting very poorly

Anyway great work, keep it up !

nat
05-15-2003, 02:35 PM
really great! So when the movie? :p

Dementor3D
06-22-2004, 04:28 PM
well done!

Its the best me 109 i ever saw! :thumbsup:

I am modeling my own me 109 at the moment...
can you tell me your references? :)

Skyraider3D
06-22-2004, 10:37 PM
well done!
Its the best me 109 i ever saw! :thumbsup:
I am modeling my own me 109 at the moment...
can you tell me your references? :)
LOL Dementor! Those are two Hawker Typhoons!!! :D
Sure you are modelling a 109 yourself, and not an F-16??? :twisted:

ty19345
06-23-2004, 04:06 AM
i like your work. :thumbsup:

yueyao
06-27-2005, 05:35 AM
awesome,so great.I like your color tone. :thumbsup:

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