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thatoneguy
08-08-2007, 12:02 AM
So.... no word on Combustion yet. Toxic gets a stand alone $3500 copy. Too early in the week to give up hope and abandon a combustion pipeline?

The autodesk silence is deafening.

seedo
08-08-2007, 05:41 AM
thats really freaking me out, i have many hopes for a new combustion to be release but i dont know tommorow is the last day lets hope somthing good come up, otherwise i will have to leave combustion and go to toxic and i think thats what autodesk want.


thank u

markdc
08-08-2007, 06:41 AM
So.... no word on Combustion yet. Toxic gets a stand alone $3500 copy. Too early in the week to give up hope and abandon a combustion pipeline?

The autodesk silence is deafening.

They didn't have combustion running on any of their workstations and there was no mention of it. I wanted to ask the Toxic guy about it but I forgot to go back.

thatoneguy
08-08-2007, 06:46 AM
So nuke it is then. :D

PiXeL_MoNKeY
08-08-2007, 04:00 PM
From what others have said on other forums Toxic currently lacks much of the Combustion tool set. As I said at CreativeCow I am guessing/hoping they will make the announcement between now and IBC, where they announced C3. Also, Toxic is a film tool, I hope they focus Combustion into the motion graphics/broadcast market and compete directly with AE and motion. I also expect it to be Combustion 2008 to follow the rebranding of their other tools. Of course this is all speculation cause I have no inside information.

Corporate policy and NDAs keeps people from coming out and saying anything, so don't expect anything beyond an official announcement. So until one of us becomes the majority share holder and CEO don't expect any changes on their silence for their tools. Personally I am going to sit back and wait, there is no benefit for me to jump ship now.

-Eric

Aneks
08-10-2007, 05:55 AM
I have heard the first near official rumor, that Autodesk have allowed one of the top secrets folks to post that " a new version is in the works" . Bascially they are not gonna use toxik as the Combusion replacement. It still has some good unique features and it seems like it will safely hang around. Plus it is still less than half the cost of toxik !

lazzhar
08-12-2007, 06:46 AM
what the hell !!

Wait and watch.

PiXeL_MoNKeY
08-14-2007, 07:05 PM
"Combustion is not forgotten. There's a bigger plan."
This was the answer from Mr. Marc Petite, Vice-President & General Manager for Media & Entertainment, when I asked him about Combustion.

I just come back from San Diego, where I've been covering Siggraph 2007 for a magazine. I attended the Autodesk press-releases, where I found out that Combustion 5 (aka Combustion 2008) will be soon released. I knew that because one of my questions was to express my disapointment of Autodesk lack of development in Combustion. Later I interview Mr. Marc Petit and Mr. Maurice Patel, head of MKT. They reassured me that Combustion is not forgotten, but indeed, they could not talk more about that, only saying that there is a bigger plan. He also added that they knew how Combustion was powerfull. He said that Combustion was the most well kept secret in the industry..This was posted in a thread over at Creative Cow, here (http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/14/862890). Hopefully that will fullfil some of your requests, and I hope to see something officially from AME in the future.

-Eric

aglick
08-14-2007, 08:47 PM
So, as long as we're purely speculating, I'll take a shot at this ...

TOXIK 2008 gets TONS of new features. Autodesk was doing TOXIK demos in our booth and showed some of the new toolsets... I see lots of great new stuff in there -and not just for 2K/4K "production line" work. This is a nearly complete 2D effects kit for all resolutions and pipelines. This will be a product that is as much at home in a small 3-man shop as it is in a large production/fx facility.

There are rumours about particles and true 3D meshes/deformers/projection mapping in upcoming revs of TOKIK too. (but this is all 2nd-hand rumours)

In the mean time, I believe I heard that every seat of TOKIX will include a seat of combustion for free (for those that still need particles or some other toolset that TOXIK still lacks)

Here's my prediction: The next release of "combustion" will be under $1000, will be built using the TOXIK core (and will look ALOT like TOXIK) and will be resolution-limited to HD work. It should get particles by then - maybe via a bundled 3rd-party integrated paerticle system or somesuch? (pure speculation, again)

This way they could keep a somewhat unified codebase and still provide the "stratification" of products/pricepoints that will allow them to sell into the widest number of facilities.


my $.02

Adam
BOXXlabs

PiXeL_MoNKeY
08-14-2007, 09:21 PM
I don't see that happening this time around Adam. If so all the 3rd party plugins and workspaces would be obsolete since Toxic and Combustion use different plugin formats and operators/nodes/core. Trying to make the Toxic core compatible with Combustion would be a waste of time, IMHO. I think they would be better off making Combustion a direct AE/Motion competitor and Toxic a direct Fusion/Nuke competitor. Even if they are different code bases it means 2 markets at 2 price points (same as with Maya and Max). I guess we will only know as announcements for the new products come along.

-Eric

aglick
08-14-2007, 09:59 PM
"...Trying to make the Toxic core compatible with Combustion would be a waste of time, IMHO..."

Right. I totally agree. I'm saying that my guess is that the combustion core will go away - replaced by a pared-down version of the TOXIK core.

Adam
BOXXlabs

PiXeL_MoNKeY
08-14-2007, 10:04 PM
At which point it should no longer be called Combustion. If they did that there would be no Combustion 4 forward compatibility or anything like that. It would be like getting rid of Maya Complete and renaming 3ds max to Maya Complete. None of your old files, plugins, etc would work with the new version. It would be a waste of development and customer time doing that, and it would also be a support nightmare.

-Eric

thatoneguy
08-15-2007, 06:39 AM
I can guarantee it won't be resolution limited. If it were, I would drop it even faster than if it were just abandoned. How would you work with HD material if you can't have an animated high resolution sky? How would you import large photos?

Toxik core would also mean AE plugins don't work. That would be an enormous problem.

Combustion's only competitor really is AE for the type of work Combustion is best suited to. I expect further advancement of the edit module and better integration with the timeline. I don't see Toxik and Combustion really crossing paths except as a paint/roto assistant app.

I'm hoping that Combustion becomes a mini-flame. However my expectations are not all that high for Combustion 2008. But I'm happy to see they're intending to update it. I await to be pleasantly surprised.

seedo
08-15-2007, 10:15 AM
am freaking out!

aglick
08-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Hey Eric,

I agree that continuing to call it "combustion" might not make sense at that point.

But developing TOXIK and combustion in parallel doesn't make any sense to me.

The product lines (especially with the recent changes to the TOXIK toolset) are simply too close together in terms of functionality and target market. Continuing to support both in the long run would likely prove to be problematic (or at least redundant and expensive) for the product support, product development and marketing groups. and maye also confusing for customers trying to make a decision on which to choose...

Yes - I'm sure that killing off the combustion codebase would be painful for some users and plugin vendors. Some people would get pissed. There's no doubt about it. Still, this type of product transition has happened many times before...

I like combustion. I know it like the back of my hand. But to me, if I could just pay a little to upgrade to TOXIK (or get it for free with yearly support) I would do it in the flash of a gate->rightswipe

Hey Thatoneguy - I'm not suggesting that you wouldb't be able to work with any size media, I'm just suggesting that limiting it to HD res on the output would allow Autodesk to position the full film-res TOKIX seats at the higher price...

Whatever happens, It will be interesting to say the least...

Adam

thatoneguy
08-15-2007, 08:59 PM
What then about cacheing? I would just never "output" I would use a cache node and export through that. :)

aglick
08-15-2007, 09:41 PM
okokok

semantics...


;)

PiXeL_MoNKeY
08-16-2007, 03:22 PM
I think this whole topic of what will Combustion become is a waste of time and just leads to feeding the rumor mill. Until Autodesk posts some information on the next version I would hold off on the speculations. As I have said before "those who know can't say and those who say don't know." That statement really proved its point in the various 3ds max 10 threads as most posted features/information was incorrect.

-Eric

aglick
08-16-2007, 07:24 PM
right - it's important to remember that this is all wild speculation.

This said, it's interesting to hear people's opinions and best guesses...

Adam
BOXXlabs

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