Weird Lines

[Munk]

Dave, I don't have Cintiq tablet but I have seen similar stray lines appear on the image when I've inadvertently pressed the button on my stylus while making a mark. Could this be happening to you?


Munk

[d@ve]

Hi Munk. I thought I was careful about inadvertently clicking the button while drawing, but it's a definite possibility. I'll see how things go today with special attention to this and report my findings.

Thanks very much for the suggestion Munk!

Dave

[Improv]

Hi Munk. I thought I was careful about inadvertently clicking the button while drawing, but it's a definite possibility. I'll see how things go today with special attention to this and report my findings.

Thanks very much for the suggestion Munk!

Dave

What video card are you using? Maybe in Painter it's having trouble refreshing the screen properly? I've seen that before where a certain video card and a certain program might not always play well together for whatever reason.

Just a thought...

[d@ve]

What video card are you using? Maybe in Painter it's having trouble refreshing the screen properly? I've seen that before where a certain video card and a certain program might not always play well together for whatever reason.

Just a thought...

Hi Improv. I have an NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT, and now that you mention it, I do seem to have a lot of refreshing problems, even with the most recent update, 10.1 (oops, forgot to mention that before). I have to minimize and restore often or I get artifacts when scrolling around or zooming.

I've been monitoring whether or not I'm accidentally clicking the stylus button (as Munk suggested), but unless it's SUPER sensitive, I don't think this is the cause.

I was thinking that one other possible cause could be WindowBlinds - although I have it set to ignore Painter, it may not be playing well. Maybe I'll need to uninstall it.

Thanks for the suggestion Improv!

Dave

[Improv]

First, you're welcome! :-)

Second, can you try using another video card for a bit? If it is a 1/2 way decent card, you'll know it's the 7600GT.

As for Window Blinds, I seem to remember when I tried it a year ago. Although it makes your desktop look pretty, it slows down your graphics performance big time. This is mainly because it adds another layer of graphics to be processed. Try uninstalling WB, reboot, then see if there is a difference.


Hi Improv. I have an NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT, and now that you mention it, I do seem to have a lot of refreshing problems, even with the most recent update, 10.1 (oops, forgot to mention that before). I have to minimize and restore often or I get artifacts when scrolling around or zooming.

I've been monitoring whether or not I'm accidentally clicking the stylus button (as Munk suggested), but unless it's SUPER sensitive, I don't think this is the cause.

I was thinking that one other possible cause could be WindowBlinds - although I have it set to ignore Painter, it may not be playing well. Maybe I'll need to uninstall it.

Thanks for the suggestion Improv!

Dave

[d@ve]

First, you're welcome! :-)

Second, can you try using another video card for a bit? If it is a 1/2 way decent card, you'll know it's the 7600GT.

As for Window Blinds, I seem to remember when I tried it a year ago. Although it makes your desktop look pretty, it slows down your graphics performance big time. This is mainly because it adds another layer of graphics to be processed. Try uninstalling WB, reboot, then see if there is a difference.

Unfortunately I don't have access to another video card at the moment, but I have uninstalled WindowBlinds. Coupled with a little extra care on the stylus buttons I haven't seen any strange lines (other than those I meant to put there) in any of the quick tests I did, but I'll see what happens while working later on.

Thanks again for the kind replies, with any luck at all we've solved the case!

[Ghiangelo]

i have had this happen to me before, i think. it's like suddenly a perfectly straight stroke renders through the image. it's probably that you are drawing a bit to fast and a stroke is processed awkwardly and repeats across the screen.

ghi


Hi all,

I've been having some weird lines appear when drawing in Painter recently and thought I'd put it up for inspection with a group of sagely Painter experts before I tore things apart trying to figure it out myself. Any insight you may be able to give would be greatly appreciated.

So here's the scenario - I'll be drawing away and suddenly a mysterious line shoots out away from the stylus.

For a little background - I'm using a Cintiq 21UX on a fast, dual-core machine with 4 gigs of RAM, running Windows XP. I usually use a customized Soft Charcoal Pencil (but it happens with the eraser too).

Now I'm no genius, but could this possibly be linked to the click rate or spacing (at 25% right now, damping at 50%)? I was also wondering if it may be related to static (since it's been pretty hot here and the air-conditioning has been on 24/7) although the issue seems to be isolated to Painter.

Again, any light you may be able to shed on this grievous little gremlin would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

Here's an attachment of the culprit.

[genocell]

I think your Cintiq is broken. Give it to me. :rolleyes:



Kidding. :) About getting arthefacts when zooming and pannning, do you happen to be using Painter X? I had similar experience with Painter X even after updating it. Though I can't remember if I got random straight lines. 'Had' meaning I don't use X anymore...

[d@ve]

i have had this happen to me before, i think. it's like suddenly a perfectly straight stroke renders through the image. it's probably that you are drawing a bit to fast and a stroke is processed awkwardly and repeats across the screen.

ghi
Hi Ghiangelo. You're right, it seems to happen when I'm drawing quickly (which is a bit of a problem since I'm a fairly "sketchy" artist).

I think your Cintiq is broken. Give it to me. :rolleyes:



Kidding. :) About getting arthefacts when zooming and pannning, do you happen to be using Painter X? I had similar experience with Painter X even after updating it. Though I can't remember if I got random straight lines. 'Had' meaning I don't use X anymore...

Hi genocell. Actually it's not really a Cintiq - it's an old etch-a-sketch that I've tweaked to have pen recognition. It plugs in via a sophisticated yarn and bubble-gum connector and comes with a 6D eyebrow pencil. Still interested?

Yes, I'm using Painter X with the most recent update. Am I to understand that "Had" means you've gone back to 9.5?

I'm sad to report that unintalling WindowBlinds hasn't fixed the problem (although my computer seems more responsive on the whole). Oh well, back to the weird-line-riddled drawing board.

Thanks for the help!

[d@ve]

It seems I accidentally double-posted, oops.

Maybe I'll edit this to ask another question - Is it normal for Painter to use 50%+ cpu when working?

Thanks!

[Improv]

Is it normal for Painter to use 50%+ cpu when working?


On a PIII 800, yes it's probably normal for that.

But you say that you are using a "fast, dual-core machine with 4 gigs of RAM, running Windows XP" so no, it should NOT be normal for your machine. Maybe it's time to give us a detailed rundown of your hardware. Also check the task manager Processes tab and see if there is some process in the background chewing up cpu cycles like a virus checker or other background task when Painter is open.

Also, are you using some really high zoom level like 800% or using 50 layers? Or maybe a very large Impasto paint brush? :-)

[genocell]

Hi genocell. Actually it's not really a Cintiq - it's an old etch-a-sketch that I've tweaked to have pen recognition. It plugs in via a sophisticated yarn and bubble-gum connector and comes with a 6D eyebrow pencil. Still interested?



That made me laugh! :)



Yes, I'm using Painter X with the most recent update. Am I to understand that "Had" means you've gone back to 9.5?

I'm sad to report that unintalling WindowBlinds hasn't fixed the problem (although my computer seems more responsive on the whole). Oh well, back to the weird-line-riddled drawing board.

Thanks for the help!

Yes. I've gone back to 9.5. :) I'll fire up my X and test if I get some wierd lines. I'm going out for a few hours when I'm back I'll give it a spin. :)

[d@ve]

On a PIII 800, yes it's probably normal for that.

But you say that you are using a "fast, dual-core machine with 4 gigs of RAM, running Windows XP" so no, it should NOT be normal for your machine. Maybe it's time to give us a detailed rundown of your hardware. Also check the task manager Processes tab and see if there is some process in the background chewing up cpu cycles like a virus checker or other background task when Painter is open.

Also, are you using some really high zoom level like 800% or using 50 layers? Or maybe a very large Impasto paint brush? :-)

Hi again Improv. First off, thank you very much for your diligence with my little issue!

Alright, here's my hardware: AMD Athlon 64 X 2 Dual-Core 4200+ 2.21 GHz, Asus M2N-E motherboard, NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT graphics card and 4 gigs of DDR RAM. I use a dual monitor setup with the Cintiq set as the 2nd monitor. I use Avast! for virus checking but have tried Painter with it off and it still floated around 50% cpu when drawing. Sorry, I'm realizing now that I should have included all of this in my initial post. Bad Dave!

I don't use many brushes for the work I'm doing now other than a customized soft charcoal pencil variant (soft cover, pressure expression) and a couple of default airbrushes and erasers. The paper is 2480 pixels X 3508 pixels at 300ppi. However, I have reproduced the problem on smaller papers at 300ppi, using various brushes (including the lasso!). I almost always work at 100%.

Yes. I've gone back to 9.5. :) I'll fire up my X and test if I get some weird lines. I'm going out for a few hours when I'm back I'll give it a spin. :)

Thanks, it's certainly appreciated!

[genocell]

Hi d@ve.

I tried using my X with 72 ppi it's okay but when I resize to 300ppi my system restarts. :eek:
Nasty nasty bug.


Sorry...

[d@ve]

Hi d@ve.

I tried using my X with 72 ppi it's okay but when I resize to 300ppi my system restarts. :eek:
Nasty nasty bug.


Sorry...
Well that's a little more pressing then some silly little line every now and again - what am I whining about?!

Thanks for the try though!

[MartinNH]

I get lots and lots of redraw errors in painter x as well. I'm on a dual core athlon xp machine with a nvidia 7800gtx card. The brush leaves ghosts all along the line I draw somethimes, and the screen has redraw errors when I rotate or zoom.

[d@ve]

I get lots and lots of redraw errors in painter x as well. I'm on a dual core athlon xp machine with a nvidia 7800gtx card. The brush leaves ghosts all along the line I draw somethimes, and the screen has redraw errors when I rotate or zoom.

Hi MartinNH. Hmm, maybe it's an issue with nvidia cards?

To update (for all those people glued to their sets to find out what will happen next with Dave's little line) - I've tried genocell's approach and reinstalled IX.5 (when will I learn not to uninstall apps so hastily!), and guess what - same line problem almost immediately. How do you like them cookies.

So I can only surmise that it's an issue with either my card, static, the Cintiq being set up as the 2nd monitor, a sensitive stylus button, aliens, or something to do with the '80's show Webster. I reckon I'll just have to live with it, or use another program.

Thanks to everyone for their help, I'm extremely grateful!! :)

[Jinbrown]

Hi,

I don't remember if anyone's mentioned this, but have you installed the latest tablet driver?

OR (and/or), have you contacted Wacom tech support?

I hope you can this annoying problem fixed.... soon.


Jin

[d@ve]

Hi,

I don't remember if anyone's mentioned this, but have you installed the latest tablet driver?

OR (and/or), have you contacted Wacom tech support?

I hope you can this annoying problem fixed.... soon.


Jin

Hi Jin. Yes, I have the latest tablet driver installed and confirmed that I have the latest driver for my video card as well. I think Wacom support will be my next step. What's really puzzling me is that it seems to always be the sames size and shape (though I haven't actually measured to confirm this).

I've put a humidifier in the room where I work to try and rule out static, but from there I'm pretty much out of ideas. So best leave it in the hands of trained professionals. It's really not that big of a deal I suppose - just a tad annoying.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Improv]

Another idea in the Help file:

Memory and Scratch Preferences

images/BtnBacktoTop.gif (http://forums.cgsociety.org/#Top) You can change the percentage of memory usage dedicated to Corel Painter, which is set to 80% by default. You can dedicate as much as 100% of memory to Corel Painter. The lowest percentage you can choose is 5%. You can also choose the scratch disk, which selects the disk volume that Corel Painter uses to store its temporary file and to access virtual memory.

To set memory usage

1 Do one of the following:

• (Mac OS) Choose Corel Painter X menu images/onestep.jpg Preferences images/onestep.jpg Memory & Scratch.

• (Windows) Choose Edit menu images/onestep.jpg Preferences images/onestep.jpg Memory & Scratch.

2 Type a number in the Memory Usage box.

**********************************************************

Try using more memory and also less-see if that makes a difference.





Hi Jin. Yes, I have the latest tablet driver installed and confirmed that I have the latest driver for my video card as well. I think Wacom support will be my next step. What's really puzzling me is that it seems to always be the sames size and shape (though I haven't actually measured to confirm this).

I've put a humidifier in the room where I work to try and rule out static, but from there I'm pretty much out of ideas. So best leave it in the hands of trained professionals. It's really not that big of a deal I suppose - just a tad annoying.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[d@ve]

Another idea in the Help file:

Memory and Scratch Preferences

images/BtnBacktoTop.gif (http://forums.cgsociety.org/#Top) You can change the percentage of memory usage dedicated to Corel Painter, which is set to 80% by default. You can dedicate as much as 100% of memory to Corel Painter. The lowest percentage you can choose is 5%. You can also choose the scratch disk, which selects the disk volume that Corel Painter uses to store its temporary file and to access virtual memory.

To set memory usage

1 Do one of the following:

• (Mac OS) Choose Corel Painter X menu images/onestep.jpg Preferences images/onestep.jpg Memory & Scratch.

• (Windows) Choose Edit menu images/onestep.jpg Preferences images/onestep.jpg Memory & Scratch.

2 Type a number in the Memory Usage box.

**********************************************************

Try using more memory and also less-see if that makes a difference.

Hey Improv. I keep my scratch disk set to a drive other than C: (Windows) for all of my graphics apps and tried adjusting the memory allocation, but alas, the cpu still floats around 50% while I'm drawing (even if I'm drawing on a small paper set to 72ppi, with no layers. IX.5 hovers around 30%, which is about what I would expect from Painter. To be clear though - this is the usage while I'm steadily drawing a circle or whatnot. If I stop drawing it settles down. This was also consistent with my Intuos 2 tablet.

It may be time to back everything up and do a clean-install - might be some belly-button lint in the system.

Thanks again! :thumbsup:

[MartinNH]

I had those same lines, and I'm running a dual monitor setup. They are gone now, and thats either because I:

A: Uninstalled windows vista and installed xp

B: I switched the position of my monitors in the monitorsetup, so now my secondary monitor is to the left of my main.

Have you tried making the cintiq the main monitor and turning of the other one to see if the lines still appear?

[d@ve]

I had those same lines, and I'm running a dual monitor setup. They are gone now, and thats either because I:

A: Uninstalled windows vista and installed xp

B: I switched the position of my monitors in the monitorsetup, so now my secondary monitor is to the left of my main.

Have you tried making the cintiq the main monitor and turning of the other one to see if the lines still appear?

I keep my 1st monitor to the left of the Cintiq usually, but I'll try experimenting with the physical and digital setup later tonight. Hmm, I wonder if they're too close together (approximately 30cm) and it's causing some kind of interference?

Great suggestion MartinNH, thanks!

[MartinNH]

You should also try to switch just the virtual position of the monitors, I did that and it seemed to help.

[Jinbrown]

I don't know how it is with a Cintiq, but if one's tablet is too close to the monitor or another electronic device, it can cause interference and affect how the pen works (i.e. jitter, etc.).

Maybe check that too.


Jin

[d@ve]

You should also try to switch just the virtual position of the monitors, I did that and it seemed to help.

Hi again MartinNH. Well, I flipped my monitor configuration over in the Windows Properties and it seems to have done the trick (with a few hours of testing). This would also explain why I hadn't noticed the problem until recently since my 1st monitor used to be on the right of the Cintiq.

Anyway, I'll wait a day or two before I proclaim the issue resolved, but here's hoping!

Thanks very much MartinNH and everyone else for the help!!

[Improv]

Hi again MartinNH. Well, I flipped my monitor configuration over in the Windows Properties and it seems to have done the trick (with a few hours of testing). This would also explain why I hadn't noticed the problem until recently since my 1st monitor used to be on the right of the Cintiq.

Anyway, I'll wait a day or two before I proclaim the issue resolved, but here's hoping!

Thanks very much MartinNH and everyone else for the help!!

Weird. I wonder why that would work. If it does continue to work, maybe change the monitors back again in a week or so. Maybe your system just need the change to re-read the monitors?

[d@ve]

Weird. I wonder why that would work. If it does continue to work, maybe change the monitors back again in a week or so. Maybe your system just need the change to re-read the monitors?

Weird indeed, but it seems to be working still. I'll definitely be trying to switch it back in the near future since it's not very intuitive to have it set with the physical monitor on the left but having having to access it from the right-side of the Cintiq. I could always move the monitor, but I like it on the left.

If I still have the problem after I switch back I'll contact Wacom and see if they know of a fix.

[d@ve]

Well, I'm baffled folks. I thought everything was fine because I switched the setup of the monitors and was problem free for a day or two. So I decided to try to switch them back the way I want them - lines came back. So I tried making the Cintiq the primary monitor - didn't help. So I switched back to the setup that seemed to be working and this time had the line problem. (I restarted the computer each time I changed the setup) So whether or not it was a fluke that I didn't get any lines the first time I tried it, I can't be sure. But they're there now.

I also confirmed that it wasn't a problem caused by accidentally hitting the button because it will happen when my hand is nowhere near the buttons.

So I've resigned myself to using the setup that I like and watching out for the lines so I can hit 'undo' when it happens. Not the perfect solution, but I don't have time to fiddle with it anymore right now (deadlines). I guess I'll contact Wacom and Corel (since Painter is the only app that has the problem) and see what they can tell me.

Thanks to everyone for their help!! :)

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