Undead Skeleton - WIP

[Grashupfa]

hi

first of all, i like your skeleton, the model is nice and apparently you are a good illustrator too :)

A few critics:

I'm currently not at home, so i cant compare it to reference images, but the neck looks too long in my opinion.
Before you go on, you should also make sure to fix the feet, they look akward, might be the angle tho.
I'd also recomment to attach some of the armor closer to the body, right now they look rather loose, as if the skeleton would lose them as soon as it moves. (belt!, bracer..)
Also rotate some elements of the chain to get a better 3D effect.
Well i'm no expert at human anatomy, but I think the rest is ok. (check the knees...)

Concerning your textures, you need to work far more on them :D, the metal doesnt look like metal right now, you could add dirt, bump maps, specular maps and so on and so forth, i think you get the idea. Get some good references and try to achieve the same look.
right now, you arent using the (2) 1024x1024 to full capacity.

Apart from that i like your work. I hope the crit wasnt too harsh ;)
Keep going!

[riot9]

Grashupfa,

No, you weren't too harsh at all. After all, you did preface the crits with a few compliments. :)

I can see where you're coming from with these things. It always helps to have a second pair of eyes.

I can see what you mean about the neck. I was using a reference image of a skeleton as an ortho when I modeled it, but during multiple HDD formats I've somehow lost it. I looked up some images again and most of them do seem to have abnormally long looking necks. But something still didn't look right. After looking long and hard at some skeletons I realized a few things. The first, and most obvious was that I need some extra geometry up there on the neck. But in addition to that I noticed that the top set of ribs actually go up higher on the spine where they connect in. From a straight on view of the front, they go up higher than the collar bone.

Here are the changes I've made, let me know what you think:

http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/723/2003013928719753482_rs.jpg

I checked the feet out, and I think you're right. There is some work that can go on there. Especially in how they connect to the leg. I'll work on that and post another shot.

From checking references, the knees seem about right to me, but I could scale them down a tiny bit still.



The armor is a little difficult. Part of the problem is I was trying to get a look that made it all seem precariously placed, as if it were all about to fall off at any moment. I do see what you mean though. I may change the plate on the shin to be a boot, and use chains in other places that make sense. The belt will be difficult to change, but I will try some things out and see if I can find anything that works better.

I think you're absolutely right about my textures. This is one area that I struggle the most with right now. I'm used to working in pencil and paper, the switch to color/digital is still a rough one. I've never used bump or specular maps before, but now might be a good time to experiment. I'll probably first start off though by just trying to modify my existing texture.

I may have to completely re-UV map the armor and start from scratch though. Right now, it is all UV'd very sloppily, with a lot of stacking/overlapping.

You're right though. I'm not coming close to utilizing two 1024 textures.

Thanks again for your help.

I'll work on it and post updates. I may end up making a lot of changes though, so progress may be slow.



Any other crits/suggestions while I'm at it?

[antodonnell]

Hi riot9, I do like a good skeleton. So far your doing a very good job on it. So heres some crits I hope will help.

Hope you dont mind the paint over. The edges on the forehead I think would benefit from making them a little rounder. Get the most out of the detail or optimize it. Likewise with the lines on the chin. Only slight changes but can help.

For the textures to get that gritty, dirty effect if your going for it. try using overlay layers ontop of your base colour texture, also multiply. Both colour and grayscale. This method would be the most common. I also like to start witha greyscale map then to put a overlay on it paint on colour to give the grey map colour. Then I d layer other dirt overlays layers on top.

I d recommend playing with the opacitys on these layers as when its over done its not so good.

Maybe you can also bake lighting into the model also could help.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6295/2778341186254797largecw4.jpg

[riot9]

Thanks a lot anotodonnell. I don't mind the paint over at all. Do whatever you have to.

You're right on the optimization. There is a bit I've probably overlooked and some edgeloops that just aren't adding any definition. As I look at it, I can see more in the armor I could do away with.

When it comes to the texture, thanks for the suggestion on starting with grayscale. That might actually help me since I'm more comfortable with drawing in pencil anyway.

When you said "try using overlay layers ontop of your base colour texture, also multiply," what is the "multiply" part? I'm not sure I'm familiar with that function.

I've seen people talk about "baking shading", or "baking lighting" into a model before. Just to make sure I understand what you mean, is this when you draw shading into your textures as opposed to just letting the 3d engine handle all shading?

If that's what it means, then yeah, you're right. I need to have a bit more shading on the skeleton itself. I need to completely re-do the UV map on it though before I can. I was extremely sloppy when I set it up originally.

Does anyone have any thought specifically on the precarious placement of the armor?
I'm trying to figure out exactly how far I want to go to get the concept making sense. For example:

http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/25729/2001680725918153542_rs.jpg

If I added some plates that would have covered the ribs/abs, linking each one to each other, then down to the belt?

I know it's completely subjective, and everyone could have a different opinion.
I'm interested in hearing them though.

I didn't intend to make this such a group project, but I'm really new to this stuff, so all of this help is great for me.

[matsman]

Hej! hej!

I have been checking up from the start... good things are being done. I always wanted to make a skeleton... but then again... with people you can make a skin and that is it... maybe even clothes... but a skeleton is a lot of bones... and since I am a lazy bastard, that has been keeping me from trying.

Anyway... you are progressing nicely and I think the armor i quite alright... since it wasn't made for a skeleton (at least not normally) so it has to be to large. However... if this skeleton hasn't just risen (like now) all the really loose stuff would have fallen off at the moment it moves for the first time.. or at least shambles the first few paces. So you should try and make it logic and believeble that the armor stays more or less in place. (swinging is good) That are my view on the armor question. now to clear up a few points.

multiply is a mode you can put a layer in in psp and photoshop... and it mutiplies the color data of layer one with layer two thus making it darker and dreader.

baking lighting is actually rendering the light that falls on the character to a texture instead of a camera.. so you don't have to (or won't have to do all) the shading by hand. You can render to texture and then apply the rendered (baked) texture to your own. Make sure you give the model a white diffuse color for this for optimal results. google it there are ton's of tutorials on this.

[riot9]

Matsman, thanks for the info on multiply and baking lighting. I'll look up information on both of those and start playing around with it. Again, I'll have to re-UV the entire skeleton before I get to shading though. I'll work on finalizing the model though first.

As it is right now, the armor really isn't that believable in some respects. I think I am going to try to get things to attach in ways that it could be somewhat believable.

I have been playing around a little with dirt, grime, rust layers on the breastplate. Here is what I've got so far.
Critiques are welcome.

http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/23244/2002575174127079007_rs.jpg

[antodonnell]

Sorry for the late reply todd, matsman pretty much covered your questions. the armours looking better already.


Dont forget to seek reference for armour and metal to get more into your texture. Like ornate motifs etc. Armour needs to be practical thus is fashioned in a particular way. But depending the importance of the skeleton in life he/she may have ornate/decorative armour.

Basically an excuse for you to do lots of great details and have lots of fun. Dont be afraid to try stuff, just keep things on separate layers so you can easily delete any results you dont like.

[riot9]

Thanks again antodonnell.


I think it's time to bite the bullet and re-UV the entire thing. I'd like to be able to add the kind of detail you're talking about in parts, but my map is stacked to sloppily right now for me to do it. I'll have to finish up the armor completely first though. It'll be a bit of an undertaking for me since this is all done in my spare time, so it may be a few days before I update again.
Thanks everyone!

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