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matttaylor
08-03-2007, 05:51 PM
Hi,


Holomatix Rendition is a new raytracer for Maya, which gives near-identical output to mental ray. It allows rapid interactive previews, and is typically 6-8 times faster than mental ray. We have recently put it into public beta, so I am inviting users of this site to try it out, and let us know what you think.

Rendition has been successfully used in a production enviroment for the past 6 months, however there are a few things not properly supported yet. For example - final gathering, displacement maps and particles.


Here is an overview.

http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/about/ (http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/about/)


Some benchmarks, with comparison images

http://www.holomatix.com/products/renditio...nce_benchmarks/ (http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/performance_benchmarks/)


It also gives the artist the ability to see scene updates in real time, in a similar (though far superior, we think) way to maya IPR.

http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/rendition_ipr/ (http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/rendition_ipr/)


And the download link, for Windows and Linux versions.

http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/download/ (http://www.holomatix.com/products/rendition/download/)



I hope everyone who tries Rendition enjoys the experience, however your feedback is really important, so please let me know what you think, either by replying on this forum, or by emailing us at rendition-beta@holomatix.com

Best Regards


Matt Taylor

KidderD
08-03-2007, 08:57 PM
I was skeptical when I saw your benchmarks, the mental ray times look way out of whack! Then I saw your interactive previews, and I was floored. FPrime for Maya indeed!!

Oh, and the name is whack, (am I saying whack to much) so now it's just going to be called HR.

thematt
08-03-2007, 09:35 PM
looks great,too bad there is no final gather that's what I use most at the moment

nemoo
08-03-2007, 11:10 PM
wow, the real time scene updates are amazing. thats what every renderer will look like in 3 years from now. good times!

Strang
08-04-2007, 12:35 AM
i think the benefit is previewing MR interactively, and it looks to mimic MR (.mi and shaders) so once its time for final rendering you just send it to MR instead.

LucentDreams
08-04-2007, 02:27 AM
wow, the real time scene updates are amazing. thats what every renderer will look like in 3 years from now. good times! many have had such solutions for a while, its just nice to see such an option in maya.

FreakWizz
08-04-2007, 09:21 AM
Yes it's good to see an FPrime for Maya...

The only problem is i'm running Maya 8.5 64bit, and the plugin is not yet availbale for download on X64 platform. But as soon as it is let us know, would love to see it in action.

sacslacker
08-04-2007, 09:49 AM
Let's just hope it's affordable.

rebb
08-04-2007, 03:26 PM
Hot damn ! :love:

TheNeverman
08-04-2007, 05:59 PM
Will there be a Mac version?

sacslacker
08-04-2007, 10:04 PM
Works very well so far and seems stable. Pretty darn impressive. To see that FG, Particles, etc are coming is great news too. I hope it's not as expensive as Blaze though, that wouldn't be good.

elfufu
08-04-2007, 11:57 PM
if u get sss and displacements working i will give you my firstborn

SheepFactory
08-05-2007, 12:08 AM
Will there be a Mac version?


Seconding this.

cresshead
08-05-2007, 01:24 AM
price?...similar to fprime pricepoint or cheaper?....also is it network render capable..[i'm still reading thru your site]

cresshead
08-05-2007, 05:43 PM
after reading on the site, they also have a 3dsmax version in development also which is really great news to the huge userbase of 3dsmax...looking forward to seeing the demo version for 3dsmax soon and more info on the proposed pricepoint to see if it falls inline with Fprime from worley labs [the origonator of such live preview renderers] or is above or below that pricing.

also no info on rendering out sequences of images or network rendering as yet...which fprime3.0 can do for lightwave 9.2

UrbanFuturistic
08-05-2007, 08:40 PM
Couple of questions (as I'm ever curious about this sort of thing), although I can't afford Maya myself:

On the data projector image, there is ambient shadowing in MR where there isn't in Holomatix, is this a Final Gathering/Ambient occlusion thing or just a difference in the way the renderers interpret light?

On the last image the refractions in the cone seem substantially different between the two images, is this anything to do with internal reflection?

Asides from this, looks impressive. I notice the image textures are substantially sharper and clearer in your renders.

morimitsu
08-06-2007, 08:30 AM
I have been wating for an "fprime" solution for maya for a couple of months.

I even send Autodesk a feature request asking this.

That's a great news, indeed.

matttaylor
08-06-2007, 11:32 AM
after reading on the site, they also have a 3dsmax version in development also which is really great news to the huge userbase of 3dsmax...looking forward to seeing the demo version for 3dsmax soon and more info on the proposed pricepoint to see if it falls inline with Fprime from worley labs [the origonator of such live preview renderers] or is above or below that pricing.

also no info on rendering out sequences of images or network rendering as yet...which fprime3.0 can do for lightwave 9.2


Hi Cresshead,

Thanks for all your comments! Rendition can indeed render out image sequences, either from the commandline, or interactively by dragging in a multi-frame .mi file, and using the timeline panel. Documentation is admittedly a bit light so far, but we'll put more comprehensive instructions up on the site within the next few days.

As for network rendering, (I'm assuming you mean multiple machines contibuting to the IPR preview). This isn't in there yet, but it's certainly on the list of features we'd like to add. One of the benefits of a public beta is gaining a sense of what features people would value most, so we can prioritise things.

Regarding the price, we haven't made a final decision yet, but I can say that it won't be any more expensive than FPrime.

Best Regards, and do keep letting us know your thoughts


Matt Taylor

oktawu
08-06-2007, 12:19 PM
awesome stuff.
just one question: are u going to make it a maya only renderer, or are u considering bringing it to other platforms too in the future, like xsi for example.

thanx

tlggungor
08-06-2007, 12:45 PM
Really usefull program great

matttaylor
08-06-2007, 01:07 PM
Will there be a Mac version?


Hi Neverman,

In short, yes. Rendition is QT based, so designed to be easily portable. At the moment, we are prioritising things based on the feedback we're getting - so the more people clamour for something, the higher up the list it gets! :-)

Best Regards

Matt Taylor

TheNeverman
08-06-2007, 02:28 PM
So do PC users have to install QT to use Holomatix?



Hi Neverman,

In short, yes. Rendition is QT based, so designed to be easily portable. At the moment, we are prioritising things based on the feedback we're getting - so the more people clamour for something, the higher up the list it gets! :-)

Best Regards

Matt Taylor

matttaylor
08-06-2007, 02:42 PM
So do PC users have to install QT to use Holomatix?

No, QT is contained within the Rendition executable, so no other libraries are needed.


Best Regards


Matt Taylor

Venkman
08-06-2007, 02:54 PM
Regarding the price, we haven't made a final decision yet, but I can say that it won't be any more expensive than FPrime.


You MUST stop teasing me and release this thing! I watched your demo movies and started to drool on Friday, and I have downloaded the demo to try out on my PC at home.

This looks amazing, and the price sounds right!


Couple of questions:

1) Will it support motion blur, or only motion vectors?

2) How will it handle particles and paint effects?

3) Do you have a mailng list I can sign up for so that I do not miss the final release?



Thanks for reading, and I am super excited about this product!

rebb
08-06-2007, 02:59 PM
And another question :
Is there support for baking like Mental Ray BatchBake for example ? Possibly planned in the future ?

sacslacker
08-06-2007, 05:08 PM
Regarding the price, we haven't made a final decision yet, but I can say that it won't be any more expensive than FPrime.


SOLD - Where's the preorder form? Seriously. =)

Sciortino
08-06-2007, 06:37 PM
A Mac release would be much appreciated!
-Paul

monovich
08-06-2007, 06:53 PM
You guys are going to make a ton of money. congrats on releasing a tool like this. Without FPrime in Lightwave, I would never have grown in my surfacing and lighting ability. I'm stoked for Maya users out there just because all 3d artists should have access to tools this useful.

The world didn't need another 3rd party GI renderer, but this fills a need.

Kudos on the price, too. Accessibility is key!

cheers.

Venkman
08-06-2007, 07:03 PM
You ain't kiddin. I can't wait to try that demo.

I've got my wallet out, and my personal projects are taking on a whole new perspective once I watched that video.

Sweet stuff.

matttaylor
08-07-2007, 10:35 AM
You MUST stop teasing me and release this thing! I watched your demo movies and started to drool on Friday, and I have downloaded the demo to try out on my PC at home.

This looks amazing, and the price sounds right!


Couple of questions:

1) Will it support motion blur, or only motion vectors?

2) How will it handle particles and paint effects?

3) Do you have a mailng list I can sign up for so that I do not miss the final release?



Thanks for reading, and I am super excited about this product!


Hi Venkman

Deforming motion blur actually works already - if you turn it on you'll see your scene with motion blur. At the moment you need to hit the Rendition 'R' button to resend the whole scene, after turning motion blur on (we'll fix that), but it should look fast and smooth.

Particles are not properly supported yet, but will be fairly soon. Paint effects we haven't looked at, to be honest.

Last night's release has a new final gathering method. You can now see final gather results in real time, just like everything else.

I'll let people know about a mailing list


Best Regards


Matt Taylor

Venkman
08-07-2007, 02:49 PM
Deforming motion blur actually works already - if you turn it on you'll see your scene with motion blur. At the moment you need to hit the Rendition 'R' button to resend the whole scene, after turning motion blur on (we'll fix that), but it should look fast and smooth.



Great! I should have time to try it tonight (finally).


Particles are not properly supported yet, but will be fairly soon. Paint effects we haven't looked at, to be honest.



Particles- sweet. I'm glad you are at least looking at it! Paint effects, well, I'll be able to live without because of the ridiculous speed of your engine. ;)


Last night's release has a new final gathering method. You can now see final gather results in real time, just like everything else.


I guess you guys never take time off! Sounds awesome.



I'll let people know about a mailing list


I'll keep my eye on this thread until you have one!

thematt
08-07-2007, 02:58 PM
now that really is interesting..please keep not sleeping :)..updated seems absolutly great.
Mostly for final gather.

big thumbs up.

cheers

Venkman
08-07-2007, 03:08 PM
You know, I just realized that by far this is the news I am most interested in to come out of Siggraph. Although I did hear about this on the Maya high end 3d list- it's nice to get more info during Siggraph and straight from the dev.

And it works in Maya 7! Oh, that is so lovely.

wizlon
08-07-2007, 03:29 PM
A Mac version would be very much appreciated.

We currently have 6 Maya licences and will probably expand this soon. We also use Fprime for Lightwave, but are making the switch to Maya, so this would be very good news for us.

Cheers.

foggyball
08-07-2007, 03:30 PM
Being an avid fprime user for the past few years I can say this is something Maya has been crying out for. Our studio runs on the Mac platform so it would be great to see it released on Mac as soon as possible.

snarl
08-07-2007, 04:34 PM
:sad: sad that i am on 64bit ..... when are you going to release the 64bit beta ?

matttaylor
08-07-2007, 04:48 PM
:sad: sad that i am on 64bit ..... when are you going to release the 64bit beta ?

The 64 bit versions (Windows & Linux) should be released in the next couple of days.

Best Regards

Matt Taylor

Projectkmo
08-08-2007, 12:50 AM
Wow! is all I can say.

I'm refreshing this thread throughout the day hoping for more!

this is really something awesome!

morimitsu
08-08-2007, 04:19 AM
Does it render out in passes?

Gwot
08-08-2007, 07:17 AM
This rocks!!! XSI plugin would be nice at some point. This is a great alternative to LW/fprime.

KidderD
08-10-2007, 11:14 PM
Fantastic!

I would like to see the interactivity with a scene, a little more complex than a sphere and a plane though. Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but is this a multi threaded plugin?

Cheers!

reptil
08-12-2007, 10:18 AM
Very good job !
it's seem to work fine but for physical sky with maya i don't see the sky just the sun and the result is different from mentalray and it 's seem there are a bug with boolean object rendition close every time i create boolean and with directional light no shadow in rendition with spotlight yes but no with directional.
wait for more progress on it i m waiting for this longtime man
see u

GQ1
08-13-2007, 06:24 AM
Hello,

Could this render shave and a hair for Maya?
And if so I would love to see some images and their render times.

Thanks,

matttaylor
08-13-2007, 12:23 PM
Very good job !
it's seem to work fine but for physical sky with maya i don't see the sky just the sun and the result is different from mentalray and it 's seem there are a bug with boolean object rendition close every time i create boolean and with directional light no shadow in rendition with spotlight yes but no with directional.
wait for more progress on it i m waiting for this longtime man
see u

Hi Reptil,

Thanks for letting us know about these bugs.

With a shader like physical sky, it can be tricky to get it to look identical to maya/mental ray's own, so we tend to do a "first pass", and get it looking reasonable, then refine it.
You're quite right about the directional light bug, and the booleans. We'll take a look and make sure they're fixed!

In fact I'd like to thank all the people who are testing it, and giving us such great feedback, and bug reports. With your help, we're definitely getting there!


Best Regards

Matt

matttaylor
08-13-2007, 12:27 PM
Fantastic!

I would like to see the interactivity with a scene, a little more complex than a sphere and a plane though. Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but is this a multi threaded plugin?

Cheers!

Hi KidderD

I take your point, I'll try to put up some videos of a more substantial scene soon. :-)

Maya's plugin architechture is single threaded, so the plugin has to work quickly to avoid hanging maya. Rendition itself is a seperate application.

Best Regards


Matt Taylor

matttaylor
08-13-2007, 05:47 PM
Hi Cresshead,

We don't really have a concrete timeline for a max version yet - although it works for max already for importing .mi files, assuming you only use mental ray shaders (e.g. architectural, car paint phen) as opposed to max's own shaders.

There are two principal efforts in developing Rendition beyong where it is now.

1. Extending it to fully support new platforms (Max / XSI)

2. Extending the range of features it supports in general. (Hair, Particles)

We're working to get the maya version really rock solid at the moment, but that's getting there quite quickly since we've released the public beta, thanks to all the great testing people have done. So after that, it will be a question of 1 & 2.

Sorry not to have more information yet, but we've got our work cut out sorting out the maya version just now! http://www.holomatix.com/components/com_joomlaboard/emoticons/smile.png

Best Regards


Matt

cresshead
08-13-2007, 06:01 PM
thanks, excellent news...i realise that maya is your priority so yeah get that ROCK solid and out n about as a product the that'll give great marketing momentum for the 3dsmax version to follow...as you know maya and 3dsmax both have HUGE user bases...have you contacted cgarchitect.com about your plugin as a news item as i'm sure the arch tech design segment would be VERY interested in these new capabilities for fast preview and setting up of scenes for clients.

steve g

watermage
08-13-2007, 06:17 PM
looking at the interactive update screen....mercy that thing is fast...

I will let you know how my main machine handles it when I get home.

Good looking so far though, I'm quite impressed.

inguatu
08-13-2007, 06:26 PM
Fantastic!

I would like to see the interactivity with a scene, a little more complex than a sphere and a plane though. Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but is this a multi threaded plugin?

Cheers!

try it yourself via the demo. Use one of your own scenes and see how it works.

Spacelord
08-14-2007, 04:23 AM
Does Rendition handle heavy polygon scenes ? Is it 64bit ?

Really look forward to the 3dsmax version.

cheers

matttaylor
08-14-2007, 09:27 AM
Does Rendition handle heavy polygon scenes ? Is it 64bit ?

Really look forward to the 3dsmax version.

cheers

The camera scene is around 45,000 polys if memoy serves. Still not very high, but better than a sphere and a plane :-) I will try to put up a high poly video soon.

Rendition's speed doesn't depend so much on the polygonal weight of the scene, but on the number of rays you end up tracing. If you go to the output channels tab, in render settings, tick the 'heatmap' box, and then select heatmap from the row of buttons at the top (it's between the label and the grid), you can see how many rays are being traced per eye ray, meaning how many reflection / refraction / shadow or final gather rays you ended up tracing for every image sample.

Black = 0 Rays
Dark Blue = 20 Rays
Dark Magenta = 50 Rays
Red = 100 Rays
Yellow = 500 Rays
White = 1000 Rays

It can be interesting to see which part of your scene is really slowing you down.


Best Regards


Matt Taylor

Robken
08-14-2007, 09:37 AM
i've tested it a bit and it's really cool. very fast.

some things crashed the plugin though. stuff like turning on "motion blur" in the render globals. I also loaded in a realflow mesh but rendition didn't seem to update the renderview when the mesh updated. "glow" doesn't seem to be supported.

it's cool now, but it'll be essential to my workflow once the hitches get ironed out :).

Spacelord
08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
The camera scene is around 45,000 polys if memoy serves. Still not very high, but better than a sphere and a plane :-) I will try to put up a high poly video soon.

Rendition's speed doesn't depend so much on the polygonal weight of the scene, but on the number of rays you end up tracing. If you go to the output channels tab, in render settings, tick the 'heatmap' box, and then select heatmap from the row of buttons at the top (it's between the label and the grid), you can see how many rays are being traced per eye ray, meaning how many reflection / refraction / shadow or final gather rays you ended up tracing for every image sample.

Black = 0 Rays
Dark Blue = 20 Rays
Dark Magenta = 50 Rays
Red = 100 Rays
Yellow = 500 Rays
White = 1000 Rays

It can be interesting to see which part of your scene is really slowing you down.


Best Regards


Matt Taylor

Thanks Matt,

How does it handle gamma ? I've noticed with Mental Ray theres a problem with the colour swatches not matching the rendered output. Using mr_sun, mr sky, etc..
I normally put in a gamma correction node on colour swatches and textures so I end up with the right colours. Does Rendition use any 3rd party MR shaders ?
How will it handle newer versions of Mental Ray shaders ?

I would love to see an Interior rendering to see how well the final gather works.
Something with small and large details, something thats hard for Final gather.
An animation to test FG flickering.

How many slave renders will come with Rendition ? Probably won't need them with the speed of it :) hehe

I'd love to put Rendition through its paces !! Bring on the Max beta :)

taylorius
03-26-2008, 12:06 PM
Thanks Matt,

How does it handle gamma ? I've noticed with Mental Ray theres a problem with the colour swatches not matching the rendered output. Using mr_sun, mr sky, etc..
I normally put in a gamma correction node on colour swatches and textures so I end up with the right colours. Does Rendition use any 3rd party MR shaders ?
How will it handle newer versions of Mental Ray shaders ?

I would love to see an Interior rendering to see how well the final gather works.
Something with small and large details, something thats hard for Final gather.
An animation to test FG flickering.

Hi FuriousD

For some reason, I missed your reply - so this response is rather late! Still - better late than never. :-)

Rendition may still have the odd issue with gamma within 3ds Max, in Maya it should be fine.

As for final gathering - Rendition doesn' do any interpolation of precalculated samples, - which means it takes a new sample whenever it needs to evaluate final gather. This means that flickerig,and smearing will not be a problem (though the total render time mcan be longer, as it is doing a lot more work).

Hope this helps, and do keep letting us know what you think!

Best Regards


Matt Taylor

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