Another skull wip

[alcovitch]

cool start so far ... the one thing that does seem odd to me is the main head area ( the cranium where the brain is ) seems a little too large .. not sure ... you modeled this from a reference pic? cuse im sure the cranium is out of proportion .. other then that .. looks good

[FatAssasin]

Looks really good. I don't know, the cranium area seems okay to me. What I think will really bring this thing to life is a nice, bump map map with a weathered looking texture, and going into one side of it and making it less symetrical.

[alcovitch]

actually maybe the problem with the cranium is that as of now .. with no textures or anything its just one solid bone .. where as a real cranium .. is several bones fusing together ... i agree would be nice to see a yelowish weatherd texture with darker brownish in the cranium cracks .. :P but definatly you need to add the cranium lines :P

[betelgeuse]

Thanks for the comments. No, I realize there are many suture joints connecting the various bones of the skull. I'm not ready for texturing yet. I still need to make the mandible and teeth. When I'm satisfied with the model, I'll go on to textures.
Started to work on some teeth and realized I forgot the anatomical landmarks indicated:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/newskull2.jpg

[betelgeuse]

I painted some suture joints on a rendering just to roughly see what it would look like with a bump texture.
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/newskull3.jpg

[betelgeuse]

Starting to rough out the mandible:

http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/mandible.jpg

[Syrogen]

:applause: looking good man!

[betelgeuse]

It turns out that alcovitch was right. The cranial cavity was a little over-inflated and has now been reduced.
I'm holding off on the jaw for a few other tweaks, like raising the foramen magnum a bit (the hole where the spinal cord exits).
http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/22893312003135552.jpg

[betelgeuse]

Just another test render view:

http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/228941200371749.jpg

[betelgeuse]

Minor update with some not so obvious tweaks except perhaps for the projecting turbinates (nasal concha) inside the nose.

[Lukashi]

:thumbsup: looks really nice :) now put it in some cool scene with cool lighting ;)

[leigh]

Looking good, that's really tight modelling :thumbsup:

Would be cool to model those cracks though ;) It somehow looks cooler without the bottom jaw, for some reason :)

What renderer are you using? It's really smooth.

[betelgeuse]

Thanks. I do want to finish the mandible before texturing and I still haven't decided about adding more detail to the base of the skull.

Leigh, are the cracks you mention the suture joints? Whoa, that would be insane to model!
I use Strata to render. It's raytracer is fairly fast and I use a dome of point lights set-up (a lot of them) sometimes to achieve a fake GI effect. It can do a real GI rendering with radiosity, but I don't have the patience for how slow radiosity is.

[betelgeuse]

Little more work on the mandible. Basically I just need to add the alveoli (teeth holes) and teeth. I also added the optic foramen proper - the oval hole at the back of the orbit. The longer openings are called the orbital fissure - other nerves and vessels come through them.
Then on to texturing (after the mandible is done).

http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/2289442003164236.jpg

[betelgeuse]

Final modeling before texturing - maybe.

http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/2289452003105249.jpg

[betelgeuse]

My initial attempts at texturing. I don't quite have the texture down right and I want to get the look right before I do the mandible. I think the texture is too rough right now. I going for real bone of the kind of skull you'd see in a dissection lab - not a fossil or skull recently dug out of the ground.
http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/22894212003153522.jpg

[dur23]

hot damn! That is one damn nice skull. Those textures rock.
Can't wait to see it done :bounce:

[disher]

Whoa!
That's awesome, man! :applause: :drool:
Could you please post some wires of your latest work!?

[betelgeuse]

No criticism of the texture? I still think it's too rough. Anyway, I'll probably tweak it a bit still. Thanks for the kind words, guys.
Here's the latest wires:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/skullwire.jpg

[betelgeuse]

OK, show of hands, please. Which texture looks more bone-like (compare to pic above)? The first one feels a little more like rock to me rather than bone. What do you guys think?
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/lighterSkull.jpg

[AtriaLenkki]

I dunno, but isnt bone a bit whiter ? (hey I dont know anything about this but its just a feeling) ;)

[bigB]

I think the texture is:thumbsup: but why the dot's in the front of the head??

rest is very very good looking

[Dr.Jones]

Don't see any crits, probably the most accurate skull model I've seen on this board. Very nice, the textures also seem very good so far

[betelgeuse]

AtriaLenkki: Well, it's not completely white, but perhaps it could stand to be a little more white.

bigB: The dots are tiny holes that part of the bone texture. My reference has these tiny holes in that location, but mayber they're a little too prominent.

Dr.Jones: Thanks.

So, the second is looking more boney? I think so too.

[3DKnight]

yeah the second texture is definatly closer

[betelgeuse]

Ok, one last test render before I finish texturing the rest of the skull. Just wanted to see under more realistic lighting - incandescent on the right and natural on the left. This is as close to bone as I can get for the moment. I think getting perfect bone would require some subsurface scattering because it is slightly translucent:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/skullRaydiosity.jpg

[disher]

Fantastic! Looks very realistic with the new texture :applause:
One thing I find wired is the small dots above the eyes... looks like freckles to me :p
btw which application do you use?

[betelgeuse]

Thanks alot Disher. Well, I'm on a budget so I use Wings3d to model. It's free, but extremely powerful and would most likely use it even if I could afford something else. And I use Strata to render. It's not bad, but far from the high end stuff.

[betelgeuse]

Looking at the teeth texture now. I think I've got the basics of it OK, but perhaps more discoloration. I don't, however, want them to look rotten.
http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/2289430200310258.jpg

[disher]

Looking good! The color of the teeths prob depends on the age of the person (ie coffee and smoke), how old the skull itself is etc...
I think you should give the teeths a light yellow/brownish tan near the roots!

[Wetterschneider]

Betelgeuse, since you've reached and passed the stage of texture mapping, you might want to consider working in a little mor asymmetry, especially on the teeth.

Overall, though, a terrific model. I'm very impressed.

[betelgeuse]

I'm still working on the textures - they're not final yet which is why I'm posting these pics. I'm planning to introduce some additional assymetry through the texturing. The bone texture is, I believe, still a little too shiny.

[betelgeuse]

Minor update with some translucency near the bottom of the teeth:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/skullTeeth2.jpg

[TheFrumpster]

Wow! Very awsome texture! :bounce:

[l7d]

wow thats nice stuff...but i do i think that the etched lines look too large this time

[sinistergfx]

It's all looking good (modeling and texturing).

The specularity is bothering me, it seems there shouldn't be much specularity at all (none?) except for on the teeth. I used to have a [real] pig skull in my room, and I don't recall it being shiny.

Good stuff.

[betelgeuse]

Thanks. Yeah, I agree that I need to tone down the spec on the bone, but it should have some, I think.

[betelgeuse]

Still messing with textures, but not done yet. I'm having fun with this model.
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/TexSkull.jpg

[BiTMAP]

it looks, very ... interesting :D I do like how it looks, wings rools. However the etched line is too obvious...

[betelgeuse]

Thanks, Bitmap. I may tone down the discoloration in the suture joints a little. Since this is a personal project and I have no dead-line, I'm willing to explore different looks. I'm liking the discoloration on the teeth, though.

[randyrives]

Love the skull, very nicely done. Textures are good, and the color looks spot on.

[lmc]

Cool....i m looking how far u can go with ur texture...anyway,ur modelling skill also welldone.... :bounce:

[soneone]

great model!

just a little hint on the specularity.... bone becomes reflective/specular when touched often...kinda polished. ive been drawing one for one semester in art school....every friday starring at it for 4 hours :surprised
but the skull im talking about has been used as a reference for years and many many many hands touched it.

in my opionion you should make a desicion on how he has been stored and handled over the years.

in your latest version it looks too "clean" imo.

[deathX]

a small tutorial on how u modelled this

btw, its AMZING

[nObedienz]

Frontpage material, say no more :scream:

[betelgeuse]

Thanks for the good words, guys!:)

sone_one: Yeah, as I mentioned, I'm still messing with the textures. I want to mess it up a little more and introduce some more assymetry through the textures.

deathX: This skull model went through a 2 part process. I discovered the Wings3d modeler around last October. Before that, I didn't really have the tools or the expertise to do any decent models. So I rather ambitiously tried to make a human skull and was able to get the basic form, but I really didn't completely know what I was doing and left the model in a pretty crappy state. Just recently (after doing many other models and getting to know Wings better) I went back to the skull and deleted a lot of mistakes and worked it up to the point you see it now. I'm not sure I could put together a tutorial describing how I built it because, quite frankly, I don't remember everything I did.

nObedienz: You really think so? Thanks for saying it anyway. :thumbsup:

[CGmonkey]

I'm amazed by the level of quality you've achieved.. Nice work :thumbsup:

[betelgeuse]

Thanks for the comment, Monkey!

Haven't had time to play with the skull textures lately, so I thought I'd just set up a quick scene and let the render rip!

Added some quick enhancement of the candle in Photoshop.

http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/images/mike_gleason/2289582003123248.jpg

[wgreenlee1]

LOL!!!!!!!!

HEHEH!

looking really good!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[AC_Shrike]

betelgeuse,
Excellent model you have here. If you were to model every little process, every foramen, every single detail of the human skull, you'd have both a high polycount and a texturing nightmare.
The sutures and foramen can be convincingly emulated threough good texture work, using just diffuse, bump and specularity maps.
Only the major processes need to be modeled, imho, depending on use/application.

As for actual texturing suggestions, I'd make them based on good reference photos. Again, though, what's the application? Was the skull unearthed? Boiled clean? Road kill? At any rate, its essential that your uv coordinates be set up carefully to avoid any stretching or distortion of the textures. There are several ways to do this, depending on the program you use. Since I've not tackled anything of this complexity, I'm not sure how I'd go about it, without some experimentation. If you could get your hands on DeepUV, that would be ideal, but max5 and Maya4.5 both have superb uv mapping tools. Breaking the model into sections would be ideal, I suppose. Aligning the texture edges would be the biggest challenge. Whatever techniques you've used so far reveal that your skills are beyond any suggestion I could make that would be of much use.

Looking really good so far, though. And thank you for the compliments regarding my web site. I'm honored, considering the quality of your own work. =)
:beer:

[betelgeuse]

Someone asked to see the mandible seperately:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/mandible2.jpg

[AC_Shrike]

I'd rather see a separatist manually, heheheh. J/k, great work, bro!

[Lukashi]

i like it :), i would put it in a post apocalypse (terminator 2 type) setting

[koinu]

So that's why my head has been hurting so much.... Great detail and model:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[sawoozer]

Great model ~ and I think texture maybe you can have more dirt!!

[PsychoSilence]

amazing modeling and texturinhg(bumping) skills !

really like the lighting as well !

great job ! derserves more attention ! ;)

[betelgeuse]

Hey, appreciate the comments, guys. No one has mentioned this thread for a while. The model certainly deserves more attention from me as far as texturing goes. But I did post a another color version in the gallery a while back that you can see here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73314&highlight=skull).

I also want to come up with a good but not overpowering environment to put it in. I'm not really in to the whole post-apocalyptic thing for this, but I was thinking more along the lines of an anatomy lab environment or something similar.

[Commiekeebler]

One little crit:

If we were to nitpick, the seams on the nasal structure (the ones drawn with a bump map) look too smooth and too deep, a little 'painted on'. I'd make them less pronounced to remove the sharp highlight around them, and/or make them a little more wiggly.

Hope this helps.

Also, in the picture with the pencil, the composition is a little confusing. At first glance, it looks like the pencil is either bent out of the candle, or is on fire, even though spacially they are way apart. The fire seems a little too dull and vague to make believe.

that's all I could scrounge up, good job.

[betelgeuse]

Thanks Commiekeebler,
I do plan on overhauling the textures on this skull. The suture joints on the bump maps are probably a little too pronounced. Before I redo the texture, I want to see what minor modifications I might make to the model and redo the UV's.
Your comments do help.
Thanks again.

[marucot]

Could you post here some tutorials of your skull for us newbies.

Thanks,

[mihkeltt]

i know there are different skulls as much as there are people in the world but still, i think the teeth look a little bit too big compared to the overall skull size. that's about it from me. other than that - the best skull i've seen so far:)

[betelgeuse]

Sorry it took me a while to get back.

marucot, I don't have any tutorials for the skull. I wish I did. It's just a project I've been working off and on for a while.

Mihkeltt, appreciate the comment.

[ZeroNeuro]

Great modeling work. Glad to see I inspired someone to try modelling their own skull! The skull was by far the most challenging thing I have ever modeled. I swear I would have nightmares of skulls while I was doing it... ;)

I only modeled certain details tho, since the object was not meant to be seen from the back. Had I really went insane about it I would have modeled all of the pieces and put it together like a puzzle. hehe

Great texturing on your skull as well.

[zibits]

Very cool!

I would relly love to see a screen grab of your unwrap / UV 0-1 space. It looks like it was really tough to unwrap.

-AZ

[betelgeuse]

Hey Zeroneuro, I don't know how I missed your post, but thanks for the comments.

Zibits, the uv map is actually pretty piss-poor and needs a better one. I hate doing maps; it's a huge pita. Anyway, here's the last one I did for it:
http://homepage.mac.com/mgleason/craniumMap.gif

[Spearhead]

Good job.

I have been searching all day for some reference images of a skull and other human bones but come up with nothing. scanner broke so i cant scan from anatomybook =/

Anyone seen any good reference pls let me know

/Robert

[betelgeuse]

Try this:
http://www.bio.psu.edu/faculty/strauss/anatomy/skel/skeletal.htm
and
http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus190.html

[Spearhead]

Try this:
http://www.bio.psu.edu/faculty/strauss/anatomy/skel/skeletal.htm
and
http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus190.html

thank you. much appreciated

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