Character: Female character for HL2 mod

[mindrot]

Looks good kromano. I like the colours and style that you have gone with. I really like her face (love her profile) and hair as well. Nicely done.

A few things though:

- The neck looks a bit short;
- I find the eyes a bit distracting. I think it's the harsh green. I'd probably desaturate the colour a bit;
- The shoes could use some texturing (I'm not sure if you intended to take them further);
- Her groin area seems a bit too wide;
- Possibly lengthen the hip/butt area a bit as it looks a bit squashed at the moment;
- The hair looks really good, though the texture on the back half on her left side looks less defined (unfinished) when compared to her right;
- Her armpit area infront looks strange- it should rather go in to create the 'pit';
- The ankle bracelet could use some work as it's hardly visable at the moment;
- Some sock might be nice?

Anyway solid work so far and keep posting.

~M~

[kromano]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, Mindrot, I'm a big fan of your work.
Something looked really off around her head (aside from it being cartoonishly large) and lengthening the neck really helped.

The eyes are definately still a work in progress. I haven't chosen a final colour yet nor have I modeled in any expression (I'm forgoing facial animation at this point so I'll be giving a static expression later) but a few paintovers and adjustments a friend did helps with the intensity of the colour. That said, I have desaturated it until I decide to pick a new colour.

I think a few things were playing tricks on the eyes at her posterior. The longish shirt covered some area, the unfinished pants texture had the pockets too low and the UVWing there was kind of poor and stretching things oddly. But once again, I made some adjustments to the mesh itself and it's looking better already.

The shoes are completely textureless right now, the marks on them are from nearby textures I haven't cleaned up yet. I'll probably go with a pink and white sneaker, similar to the backpack colours.

Definately will be adding socks, whether I'll define some loose fitting socks on the mesh or just paint on some ankle socks I haven't decided yet. The ankle bracelet may become a wrist bracelet to break up the rather uniformity of the arms.

The armpit area probably needs more work, I haven't really focussed on it much yet but I'll try to fine tune it and post some more screens.

The hair texture on the back of her head wound up getting stretched more than I intended when I laid out the UVWs. It's probably the biggest portion of hair given the smallest area on the sheet. I might go back and try to touch up that section of the map a little bit though, as it does look rather unfinished and stretched out compared to the rest.

Thanks again for the advice.
Any comments or suggestions on the pants? I'm thinking white pants still, but I'm not happy with what I've laid out now. Feels like I'm using too many photo referenced objects for the pockets still as the rest was all hand painted (except the eyes).

I will need to move the button of the pants up, though, since that portion should be covered by the shirt.

*edit*
Uploaded new screen with minor changes as well as some additions to the texturing. Shoes are underway, but far from done. Desaturated the eyes a little bit and added some pink to the pants... not sure I like it though.

[commanderkeen]

I like the style. The main thing that bothers me about it is the skin is blotchy and looks sunburnt. I would smooth it out and make it more of an "idealized" tan color. I think that would fit the style more. Overall i think maybe the texture could be brighter, though that may just be the render.

[kromano]

Bumping my thread for some rigging help.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6899/rigginggt3.th.gif (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rigginggt3.gif)

I always get stuck trying to properly weight this area, I haven't had a lot of practice in the areas beyond modeling and texturing so feedback would be appreciated.

Is the topology OK or are there obvious flaws from that screen that would make motion difficult? What is a generic weight scheme/formula to help get more natural deformations? I usually end up with a really strange cavity forming in the front and a strange and bulbous behind.

Please note that the leg on the left side (her right leg) is partially rigged and moved, which is why it is oddly deformed. the other side is the base pose.

[matsman]

Hello Kromano!

I have two tips.. well whatever... first of i think you can benefit from throwing in an extra edgeloop btween the legs. You usually want to keep the middle crotch polygons firmly attached to the pelvis... as is the case with about the top half of the buttocks. And you need to have enough geometry so there is still a transition between the movement of the thigh and the pelvis.

The second tip, and maybe you are doing this already, is: Make some quick keyframes which have some extreme motion in them. That way you can weigh some verts, scroll trough your animation and see when the bad things happen. Then stop scrolling and make some adjustments.

Anyway... I learned a lot from looking as Ben Mathis rigs his lowpoly GTA3 model.. so here's a link (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm) (scroll down somewhat its in the bottom left side).

Well in any case I find skinning my rigs also quite fiddely... but you'll get there in the end.

[kromano]

Thanks a lot for your comments, Matsman. Using those tutorials you linked I managed to decrease the overall polycount on the mesh while at the same time increasing the edgeloops on the legs for a hopefully better deformation.

So I mentioned in the MGAC thread about my car breaking down, well now somebody has hacked my paypal account that I forgot I had and used my credit card to make online purchases. Sigh, one thing after another... At least Paypal immediately noticed that this was unusual activity and let me know immediately.

I'm going to have to close my paypal account as soon as this is resolved.

[matsman]

I'm sorry to hear... It's D**n Murphy again. Hope you didn't lose to much money. Cause you were needing it for your car... And maybe a strange question but what did the culprit buy with your money... or is that too personal?

Anyway... I am glad I could help you out by pointing towards Ben Mathis his site... I had so much fun myself when I came across it. It was like "Wow!! He worked on oblivion and look at those very cool kaarikatures of his collegues why haven't they used them! And now I am going to learn the same skills YEAH!! :) oh the good old days when we were young and ignorant :)

Anyway enough of the rant... are you going to post a picture of your achivements so we can see the tremendous amount of difference.

I hope the seven years bad luck stop soon, maybe you should do some good deeds... that usually works when nothing else will.

I'll do my part and wish you Good Luck.

[kromano]

A flood of images for an update. Model from many angles and a wireframe, hopefully these touches will help it deform better. Had to redo some of the UVW mapping, the rear pockets on the pants might be a little deformed now as a result, but I don't think it's very noticeable. Still no expression modeled onto the face yet.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1776/01af0.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01af0.jpg)http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8966/02rc7.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02rc7.jpg)http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1097/03yu0.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03yu0.jpg)http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4287/04dn1.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=04dn1.jpg)
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6905/06ni4.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06ni4.jpg)http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1291/07pa0.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07pa0.jpg)http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8404/08hd5.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=08hd5.jpg)http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9024/09kz3.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09kz3.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5997/wire01dr1.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wire01dr1.jpg)http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1998/wire02ad0.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wire02ad0.jpg)

Comments encouraged! I'm always open to advice and critiques.

[matsman]

Hey! looks good to me!... have you also been working on the face... since it looks different than I remembered.

Anyway... I'll look forward to seeing an expression or even multiple since half life can take care of that :)

Cheers!

[kromano]

Nay Matsman, I haven't made any changes to the face in those images. I should look into how HL2 handles facial animation, however for my project it wasn't necessary so I didn't plan on making use of it. Going simple with the models, although I might change that later, seeing as how the design of the head would allow for decent expressions allready.

With the skeleton FINALLY attached to the mesh, I loaded up a motion cap file from MAX to see how things turned out in motion. The cap file didn't include any fingers so the hands constantly bisect other geometry. Clicky here for animation (900kb) (http://members.shaw.ca/kromano/wave.avi)!

Also two still shots from other motion cap anims.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2600/wavegr0.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wavegr0.jpg)http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1918/sliprg6.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sliprg6.jpg)

I guess I need to learn how to animate now, huh?

[matsman]

i haven't looked at the movie yet... but will

Looks good and I wish you good luck on that animation thing. I myself are also still learning to do them quick and good. Currently I am working on a seagull that has to fly.. of course and I am struggling to get it right once again...

So good luck... and I am patiently awaiting what you will make of it :) No doubt it will turn out just as nice as the character.

-hobbles over to the animation section to find a good tutorial-

[Vertex Groover]

Looks good dude, Kinda reminds me of Kiri from Kingdom Hearts...

Keep it up!

[kromano]

Looks good dude, Kinda reminds me of Kiri from Kingdom Hearts...

Keep it up!

Y'know, I'm glad you said that as I used her mesh from KH(2) as a kind of reference while I was designing the hair. I wanted to copy the bright and colourful style of KH as well and feel I managed that fairly well.

If you're interested, here is another video of the multiplayer code I have finished (which is next to nothing) that this model is a player model for. Clicky Clicky! (http://members.shaw.ca/bikabikaboo/allweaps.avi) Sometimes forum code annoys the heck out of me... Anyway, I won't say much about gameplay since nothing is developed yet but you can kind of get an idea of where I might be heading with the concept. When/if I get closer to publishing details will be released and all that.

[kromano]

I resurface from school long enough to doublepost and ask for anybody who knows HL2's animation system for help.

I've rigged and RE-rigged this character nearly a dozen times in multiple applications (3ds, XSI) with multiple skeleton rigs (biped, bones, bone rigs exported from XSI, bone rigs taken from existing HL2 characters imported from the SDK) and EVERY time I export, compile and view in HL2 my character looks like she has a HORRIBLE bone disease of some kind. Every joint extends and contorts, the animations don't function properly at all, whether I'm using stock HL2 or my own compiled and exported.

I believe I've traced the problem to the "delta" and "subtract" functions of the QC, but I don't see anything wrong with the skeletal models I'm using and am completely stumped. This problem has effectively halted my project as I cannot continue without a player model to work new code with.

Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated. I've tried HL2 SDK forums but they seem to be devoid of activity. I'll edit this post and add screenshot examples of what is happening when I get home later.

[matsman]

I am sorry to hear you got problems kromano... but good to hear you are still alive. And that you have had theh major opportunity to practice your rigging skills :P

anyway... I have not worked with the hammer so i am afraid I cannot be of great help... But just to be sure have you followed the exact steps given here ? (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Character_Setup_Overview)

probably you have...

Nonetheless... I hope some of the hammer users can help you out!

Good Luck!

[kromano]

Ohh Matsman, when DON'T I have problems? Never, it seems. I had a friend send me a copy of the character being all creepy so I could shows to you the problem:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5737/elephantitusel5.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephantitusel5.jpg)
"My only regret is that... I have... BONEITIS!"


I've isolated the problem to a specific command within the QC file used to compile the model, Hammer is the level editor, unrelated to QCs. QC go back to Quake and are the scripts the compiler uses to link the mesh to the animation files etc.

HL2 uses different animations to "mask" or do a boolean OR, I suppose it would be, on two different animation files, the result is animation A with certain bones overwritten/blended with animation B. The idea being I can use a single frame skeletal animation file to rotate my character's spine for aiming, or head for nodding etc while at the same time the legs and arms are still doing what their animation is supposed to do.

This is all fine and good in theory, but when I set this up I get the result shown above. When I remove this blending the character looks like it did previous, like an actual human being... not... whatever that thing is.

My question is WHY, I just don't get what's going on ):

[switchblade327]

Hey Kyle. Wish I could help but it seems like you're further along then I am with Source stuff. I'm curious though, what kind of mod are you working on that this would be one of the characters? Any mod that isn't about soldiers, war, cyber-aliens or the dystopian future is of interest to me.

[kromano]

Wow, thanks for the reply Switchblade. The MOD project was based on a pretty simple idea. A friend and I were talking when the topic of 'imaginary gun games" we played when we were kids came up. Y'know, where you make the gun shape with your fingers, point at somebody and yell "BANG!"

We figured that might make for some humorous and interesting gameplay, so I started coding. The mod itself wasn't going to be anything extremely grand scale. I based it off the default HL2 Multi-player SDK and modified the weapons to create a new weapon class that ran off a power or "Stamina" system. Depending on the gun you're using there was a different stamina drain. Yelling bang to shoot a pistol doesn't take much effort, but a constant "buddahbuddahbuddah" of a machinegun will leave you short of breath pretty fast.

A working demo of the new weapon system can be viewed here (http://members.shaw.ca/bikabikaboo/allweaps.avi). The weapon code was functional both client and server side, but it didn't look right using standard HL2 models, so that's when I started on the model in this thread as an early concept to play around with animations and test code.

However, the problems I've had getting this model to work have effectively killed the project. Since I was never able to solve the problem with HL2 forums being essentially dead or particularly unhelpful, I've basically given up.

I still have my code someplace, but I don't even remember all the files I changed and what changes I made in order to get things working the way they are. Ahh c'est la vie. There you have it, sir, in a longwinded nutshell.

[switchblade327]

Wow, thanks for the reply Switchblade. The MOD project was based on a pretty simple idea. A friend and I were talking when the topic of 'imaginary gun games" we played when we were kids came up. Y'know, where you make the gun shape with your fingers, point at somebody and yell "BANG!"

We figured that might make for some humorous and interesting gameplay, so I started coding. The mod itself wasn't going to be anything extremely grand scale. I based it off the default HL2 Multi-player SDK and modified the weapons to create a new weapon class that ran off a power or "Stamina" system. Depending on the gun you're using there was a different stamina drain. Yelling bang to shoot a pistol doesn't take much effort, but a constant "buddahbuddahbuddah" of a machinegun will leave you short of breath pretty fast.

A working demo of the new weapon system can be viewed here (http://members.shaw.ca/bikabikaboo/allweaps.avi). The weapon code was functional both client and server side, but it didn't look right using standard HL2 models, so that's when I started on the model in this thread as an early concept to play around with animations and test code.

However, the problems I've had getting this model to work have effectively killed the project. Since I was never able to solve the problem with HL2 forums being essentially dead or particularly unhelpful, I've basically given up.

I still have my code someplace, but I don't even remember all the files I changed and what changes I made in order to get things working the way they are. Ahh c'est la vie. There you have it, sir, in a longwinded nutshell.

HAve you seen the UK tv show "Spaced" with Simon Pegg from "Shaun of the Dead". They did an episode on the topic of imaginary gunfights which was hilarious.

Anyway, sorry to hear it didn't work out. I know exactly what you mean about HL2 Source support; the community isn't very helpful even when it is active. It seems like the few people who know anything about it's animation system keep it to themselves and Valve has released little to no info on how it actually works. I wonder if it's just a matter of modders being disorganized or if they actually think they're in competition and don't want to share info? Either one explains the lack of good, creative and finished mods.

[switchblade327]

Hey Kyle,

I don't know if this is dead or not but did you look into potential scale issues as the culprit? Maybe your reference .smd and your animation .smds are different scales and that's what is causing the issue? It's a pretty common mistake to put a model that has at some point been scaled into a game engine, which can cause all kinds of problems; some immediately obvious, others not.

Or, if it's just occuring when blending, maybe there is some provision for animation layers/channels/priorities in the .qc file and you're playing multiple animations on the same layer?

Maybe there is a way to ignore bone scale altogether?

It looks like the model is being additively scaled with the animations so these are a few things that just popped into my head while working on another scale-related issue.

[kromano]

Hey Kyle,

I don't know if this is dead or not but did you look into potential scale issues as the culprit? Maybe your reference .smd and your animation .smds are different scales and that's what is causing the issue? It's a pretty common mistake to put a model that has at some point been scaled into a game engine, which can cause all kinds of problems; some immediately obvious, others not.

Or, if it's just occuring when blending, maybe there is some provision for animation layers/channels/priorities in the .qc file and you're playing multiple animations on the same layer?

Maybe there is a way to ignore bone scale altogether?

It looks like the model is being additively scaled with the animations so these are a few things that just popped into my head while working on another scale-related issue.

Stale yes, dead no. This project is always on the backburner of my mind. I don't see why the scale would get distorted seeing as how I'm using the same skeletal rig to do the animations, but it does seem to make sense. I'm not sure if I've tried compiling the model then decompiling and reimporting to 3d studio and check the scale... You've given me something to think about Switchblade, thanks bunches.

I'll have to dig up this project from the "archives" I just hope I still have all the files stored someplace. If I still can't solve it maybe I'll just post my sources and somebody who's willing can crack it open and tell me what's going on perhaps.

[switchblade327]

I wish I could explain what I mean in XSI terms but I've only exported models from Max. Basically, game engines read the mathmatical data and not the visual data of a model/skeleton. So you may have a character who is 6 feet tall in Max but somewhere in the creation process a bone or the mesh was scaled so it looks right but it might actually be 50% the size it was created at. So even though it works fine in Max, when you export it to the game engine, the mesh will appear 12 feet tall because that's how tall it is at it's 100% size.

So if your rigs have been scaled like this, it would look like your screen shot. But if you're able to play single animations fine in the Half Life Model Viewer then this probably isn't the problem. Then it would probably have to do with scale data being used that should be being used or multiple animations playing on the same layer/channe/priority. I wish I knew more about how Source handled scale data on bones but I don't and animation info is always the thing lacking most for modding communities and wikis.

Hope this helps. I really want to see more mods finished that are more creative then yet another military power fantasy.

[kromano]

The unfortunate thing here is that if I WAS using XSI, I probably wouldn't have this problem. Except I'm lazy and really dislike the XSI interface (probably because it's just unfamiliar).

I've been using MAX for this project as well, the plugins are great and I haven't had any problems in the past with static props, physics props and animated, dynamic props. Scale hasn't been an issue, but I've never used "delta blended animations" before, either.

I really need to dig into this and check out scale because I think you're right. What tools do you use to shape the biped or MAX bones if not the non-uniform scale tool? What confuses me though, is the same skeleton is used to produce all the animations and blends and yet the animations play correctly until the blends are included. It might be that reason that's thrown me off of what seems to be the most likely culprit that you've suggested.

I still haven't restored all my programs since formatting last week, but when I do I'll dig up that girl and take a look at the bones and see. Perhaps I'll try making a new mesh with a very, very simple bone structure to try and solve the problem that way, too. Perhaps by using a 3 bone simple model I can see if deltas work fine there and move on to the more complex problem.

[switchblade327]

There's nothing wrong with using what you know :) But your right, it'd probably be a lot easier to deal with Source as an XSI user.

Non-uniform scaling done on a biped in figure mode won't be affected by what I'm talking about. It will always be at 100% no matter what you do so that shouldn't be the problem. The mesh and non-biped bones are what can cause problems and if your mesh isn't scaled properly, it could cause something like what you're seeing but it would be apparent right away. For scaling non biped bones, you want to use the 'bone tools' under the animation tab. Simply hitting f12 when in scale mode will show you if there's any problem with your selected bone or mesh. If it's anything other then 100% on x, y and z, you've got a problem.

It really sounds like the big problem is on the Source side of things since it sounds like Max is producing workable assets. Unfortunately, that comes back around to how hard is it is to get good info on this but knowing that it is probably scale and/or layer related will hopefully help you solve it.

I've thought of buying some of the Source modding training DVDs for Noesis Interactive hoping that they might actually explain the black magic of .qc files but I'm concerned about all the advanced material being XSI centric.

[kromano]

There's nothing wrong with using what you know :) But your right, it'd probably be a lot easier to deal with Source as an XSI user.

Non-uniform scaling done on a biped in figure mode won't be affected by what I'm talking about. It will always be at 100% no matter what you do so that shouldn't be the problem. The mesh and non-biped bones are what can cause problems and if your mesh isn't scaled properly, it could cause something like what you're seeing but it would be apparent right away. For scaling non biped bones, you want to use the 'bone tools' under the animation tab. Simply hitting f12 when in scale mode will show you if there's any problem with your selected bone or mesh. If it's anything other then 100% on x, y and z, you've got a problem.

It really sounds like the big problem is on the Source side of things since it sounds like Max is producing workable assets. Unfortunately, that comes back around to how hard is it is to get good info on this but knowing that it is probably scale and/or layer related will hopefully help you solve it.

I've thought of buying some of the Source modding training DVDs for Noesis Interactive hoping that they might actually explain the black magic of .qc files but I'm concerned about all the advanced material being XSI centric.

When it comes to QCs, it shouldn't matter what suite you're using when it hits SMD format it should all be identical. I DO know that there are some rotation things you have to compensate for in the QCs as their default XYZ axis is different than most, I think -90 degrees on Z or something. Anyway... the DVDs might still be useful. Even if it is XSI centric, it should still be universal enough to apply to any package. I can see not wanting to spend the money if half the content was specific to setting up the Valve biped rig in XSI (which is actually pretty easy and doesn't warrent a DVD, even if you don't know how to use XSI).

Anyway, I've PMed you with a copy of the model in SMD and MAX format, if you have time. If we can solve this animation bug we need to write a support document for the Source community so that these things can be explained. It's just cruel trying to figure out the problems solo.

[switchblade327]

At a quick glance , everything looks fine with your max files, in both units and model scale. You collision geometry is way more dense then it needs to be but that's a I won't get a chance to look at the .qc stuff for a little bit. I just moved to a new job.city and I'm working on a short as well. But I definitely want to figure out what's up with this, as much for my own knowledge as to see your mod take off. From scanning over your PM, it looks like we've tried to do a lot of the same things but I'll go into more detail over PM, in the next few days hopefully.

My concern with the DVDs is that the .qc info is a bullet point item on the back, which means they might talk for 2 minutes about the stuff I already know. We'll see how it goes after trying to figure this one out; deathmatch should be the easiest set of .qcs to figure out.

[kromano]

I decided to take a look at those training DVDs you spoke of. I remember seeing ads for them a while ago but forgot what they were about. They seem to have a training DVD focused directly on what we're working on, Here: Character Design & Integration with Half-Life®2 and 3D Studio Max (http://www.noesisinteractive.com/index.php?x=products&y=item3)

I'm going to try sending them an email and see if they can tell me whether their DVDs discuss in detail delta blends and setting up a custom QC file using custom skeletons rather than the valve default biped.

Based on the descriptions of that DVD however, I think their character is like using the valve default skeleton and animations... I'll report back when/if I get a reply.

[switchblade327]

I wondered about that DVD too but it sounds pretty beginner-ish. Let me know what you hear though, if anything. I emailed them a while back about their advanced DVD and don't recall ever getting a reply.

[kromano]

I happily got a reply from Noisis and unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) it seems there's no DVD that covers what I'm having trouble with. So it looks like I'm going to need to start a new, test mesh and build a custom rig from bones then test delta subtractions on that, see if a very simple mesh also has similar results.

Hi Kyle, our Max disc goes into how to setup a biped rig for characters in HL2 and how to compile those characters but stops shy of many of the more advanced features your looking at. We do have an XSI disc all about creating non-standard rigs and animations (based on the Valve guide) but again not 100% valve free.

We've received a good amount of interest in the topics you've mentioned and are currently developing modules based on vertex animation, delta subtraction for gestures, postures, etc. all which contain morsels of info about specific required QC commands.

As you can imagine the setups can differ significantly from 3d system to system although the compiling itself (which has some loose ends after the ep2 release) is largely the same.

The best answer I can give you is that once a few things settle we're working on getting you your answers.


Cheers,

Noesis | Support
Mod Your World™

Looks like I (we) am on my (our) own on this one.

[Kanga]

Hi kromano!
I hear you on the HL2 thing. I once tried for a month to get a model into an environment with a buddy of mine. There are very clear tutorials but I was also using max and couldn't get it to work. However years later I managed to get assets into virtools from max very easily only I had exactly the same problem with animated characters that you described. I found the problem to be very simple but not documented anywhere. The COM of the CS skeleton has to be exactly at x=0 and y=0 the height seems unimportant. If the centre of the skeleton was out the animation went bananas.

It's a little thing but maybe that might help. In my search for engines I noticed the irrlicht engine community seems very enthusiastic and busy and also the ogre 3d graphics engine looks pretty amazing.

Like your model alot BTW.
Cheerio Chris

[kromano]

Hi kromano!
I hear you on the HL2 thing. I once tried for a month to get a model into an environment with a buddy of mine. There are very clear tutorials but I was also using max and couldn't get it to work. However years later I managed to get assets into virtools from max very easily only I had exactly the same problem with animated characters that you described. I found the problem to be very simple but not documented anywhere. The COM of the CS skeleton has to be exactly at x=0 and y=0 the height seems unimportant. If the centre of the skeleton was out the animation went bananas.

It's a little thing but maybe that might help. In my search for engines I noticed the irrlicht engine community seems very enthusiastic and busy and also the ogre 3d graphics engine looks pretty amazing.

Like your model alot BTW.
Cheerio Chris

I just opened the model again and checked the skeleton origin. It's sitting at 0,-1.588,35.82 (x,y,z). I think you might have something here... unfortunately this has been sitting so long I haven't a clue where I left off, what version is the most up to date and if my QC is still written correctly to compile.

I'll have to try that out after I have some more time. Thanks for the tip, you very well might have solved this problem for me. At the very least it shows promise :D

[Kanga]

I just opened the model again and checked the skeleton origin. It's sitting at 0,-1.588,35.82 (x,y,z). I think you might have something here... unfortunately this has been sitting so long I haven't a clue where I left off, what version is the most up to date and if my QC is still written correctly to compile.

I'll have to try that out after I have some more time. Thanks for the tip, you very well might have solved this problem for me. At the very least it shows promise :D
You are much further than I was. I bought HL2 (total kickass game BTW) for the sole purpose of developing games. We used QUARK and Hammer along with the Steam SDK. Like I said, I would seriously look for an open source solution if only for the reason that information you need is more freely available and it looks like you are willing to put in the time to get everything up and running. Actually from memory I did find the X=0 Y=0 on the virtools forum. I wouldn't use virtools if I were you though because it is expensive and there are financial distribution restrictions. Only reason I have a copy is because I have to give instruction in it and mine was paid for by the college.

Cheerio Chris

[kromano]

I'm too inexperienced a programmer to be able to do much using a different engine. I just happen to have a rather solid understanding of the Source engine because I've been working in it since Quake, basically. It hasn't changed a whole lot (the BSP structure that is) since then.

The SDK gave me the startup code for MP and my mod is nothing more, at the moment, than just a simple weapon swap. There are a few cool systems in place but nothing new, just reorganized existing code basically.

I'm anxious to implement this fix and see if it works, curse school! I don't have enough free time.

Man, you were using QUARK? I didn't even know that supported HL2! I actually have been using Hammer since Quake back when it was still called WorldCraft. I didn't get into model importing and compiling until about the end of HL1. I did a player model that reused existing animations, but it was pretty poorly done.

[switchblade327]

Kromano, I think we may have discussed this before but have you messed with UE3 yet? Like Janga with HL2, I bought UT3 solely for the mod tools and so far, it's been a helluva lot more artist friendly then Source. HL2's install base is a big draw when you're making a mod you hope people will play but Unreal seems a lot more friendly to non-programmers. And if you don't get it done then who cares how many people it could reach?

If you're making a game that you want people to play, you're probably best off with a mod. Only if you're making a game you want people to buy is when you should start looking past Unreal, Source and CryEngine for reasonably priced/free alternatives. Beyond resalability, the only advantage I can see with one of the open source/cheap engines is that their communities might be more supportive then some mod communities.

[kromano]

Kromano, I think we may have discussed this before but have you messed with UE3 yet? Like Janga with HL2, I bought UT3 solely for the mod tools and so far, it's been a helluva lot more artist friendly then Source. HL2's install base is a big draw when you're making a mod you hope people will play but Unreal seems a lot more friendly to non-programmers. And if you don't get it done then who cares how many people it could reach?

If you're making a game that you want people to play, you're probably best off with a mod. Only if you're making a game you want people to buy is when you should start looking past Unreal, Source and CryEngine for reasonably priced/free alternatives. Beyond resalability, the only advantage I can see with one of the open source/cheap engines is that their communities might be more supportive then some mod communities.
Yeah, we did talk about that in the past. I tried out Bioshock when it came out but the demo laughed at my PC's feeble attempts to run the game. I can run Source and have it actually LOOK nice whereas in Unreal 3's engine I have to turn nearly every detail off or super low to get a playable framerate.

I'm not really worried about selling this product, it's nothing revolutionary by far. It's more for my own gain, just to see if I can do it using the best resources I have available, being Source.

I certainly do see a large number of sweet props and levels around here which are built and placed in UT3 and it seems to be done with such ease that you're hardly even aware there's a conversion in between. Maybe someday when I have money (hah) and can afford a new PC I can check out the latest version of Unreal (since there's likely to be an Unreal Tournament 5 before I can afford to upgrade).

But what can I say? I guess I'm a little masochistic, I enjoy solving the problem because it's a challenge. If this origin fix works, I'll be sure to post the results here.

*EDIT*
Kanga, do you remember if it mattered if the skeleton's COM was moved after rigged and skinned to the mesh, or does it have to be set before the skin and weighting is completed?

I.E skin the model and weight the verticies then enter figure mode and move the skeleton which will move the mesh along with it as opposed to moving the mesh and skeleton, then weighting verts. (am I making any sense?)

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