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View Full Version : HMC#10: squirrel!


Boone
07-27-2007, 04:55 PM
Right, you guys are all going DOWN! I am going to model a Squirrel! I took it easy on you lot in the last contest, but man - PLAY TIME IS OVER!

But anyway, I will be gathering reference from photos I take of the Squirrels in the Abby of Bury St Edmunds. I go there twice a week and always end up feeding the cute lil'devils.

I declare that I will be using 3DS MAX for poly modelling, fur, UVing, rigging and nuts. I will also be using PaintShopPro for any textures. I will also be capturing some video of the critters in action. BEAT THAT!:bounce:

Right, must dash now and gather some reference!:love:

KrakenCMT
07-27-2007, 06:43 PM
That's it..... I give up! Ain't no way to compete with a squirrel! :D

Boone
07-27-2007, 07:16 PM
MWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH! My plan of intimidation is working!:twisted:

John-S
07-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Boone misread- He thought this was a "Hardcore Intimidation Challenge" with a voting category for "modeling", one for "harmless animals" and the other for "talking trash".

Thats it. You show them all boone :wip:

Ps. You would be a great man to have on my "fantasy football" league. (not the soccer football but american)

octopus7
07-27-2007, 11:30 PM
That's it Boone I will just have to give up as I can see already that I don't have a chance:sad:

Anyway mate good luck with your squirrel and look forward to seeing your progress.

simjoy
07-28-2007, 10:34 AM
Im out .. cant compete with the power and grace of a squirrel in attack mode ...:scream:

Boone
07-28-2007, 10:35 AM
Heheh, you can tell I'm getting all hyper over this one. I know everyone is going to be banging out natural born killers, so insted of comparing my Lion to yours I'm going to do something different.

Watching the Squirrels in Bury's Abby is just hilarious because they run to me hoping for some grub. It was natures way of saying "Heres your subject for the contest! Now bring your camera next time you dang ol'nit'wit!":D

I havent done any reference gathering yet, but looking at hair'n'fur solutions in 3DS MAX. I believe RedRepublic had trouble with it in the last contest for his Han Solo entry and I offered to look into it. Hmmm...I think this will be the most difficult part.:scream:

Boone
07-28-2007, 12:27 PM
Okay, heres a page I found that had three awesome pictures of the Eastern Grey Squirrel - which incidently has been classed as a pest in the UK and I am feeding the damn things! - and so a big hello and kudos to Tim Knight who appears to be the one who took them.

http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/mammal/squirrel/squirrel.html

http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/mammal/squirrel/squirrel_01tk.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/mammal/squirrel/squirrel_02tk.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/wildlifeweb/mammal/squirrel/squirrel_03tk.jpg

simjoy
07-28-2007, 03:09 PM
:scream: oh, savage buggers they look ...

the teeth, those claws .. the way its savaging the "picinic" table ....:eek:


good luck with this mate ..

morphius-ms
07-28-2007, 03:50 PM
Yeah there are a bunch of squirrels over here too... and they are quick as well... you ever see one dodge a car? it's like a furry little bullet. anyway nice choice of topic, I think that when I thought of this challenge, I didn't think about a squirrel. Good luck.

PS you do sound like you're acting a bit "squirrelly" :D (sorry about the pun just had to say it) good luck again.

octopus7
07-29-2007, 12:15 AM
OMG the horror of it all! Thanks Boone now I won't sleep for a week as i'll be too scared of those furry little monsters:eek: They make my tarantula look like a cute little kitten!

Yav
07-29-2007, 01:28 AM
Initially, modelling a squirrel might seem easy to most people, but I personally think, you're gonna have some serious issues with the fur as it is quite well pronounced in length and direction all throughout the body. Also, it seems the fur consists of at least three different colours, which makes it all the more complicated. Anyway, I don't want to discourage you, so good luck, mate.

John-S
07-29-2007, 06:40 AM
a squirrel is a tough one... Personally I would avoid fur. But hey, even if the fur doesn't get finished the squirrel would be a good model :cool:

Boone
07-29-2007, 08:20 AM
Yeah, fur has always been a pain in the ass. But no worries because I'll just sneak into one of ILM's renderfarms and threaten the staff with my gang of Squirrels - I'll order them to do the rendering for me.:twisted:

But, yeah, I'm going to push ahead regardless and see what I come up with. I would prefer the Eastern Grey but might be able to reduce the fur by using one of the other Squirrel species insted.

Of course, I could introduce one of the darlings to my electric shaver and use'em for my reference...:D

John-S
07-29-2007, 09:08 AM
Of course, I could introduce one of the darlings to my electric shaver and use'em for my reference...:D
:eek:
.................

Boone
07-29-2007, 12:16 PM
Well as 3D artists we need to be good at problem solving. If the fur is a problem then just get rid of it!:twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlK0Xd4c2c&mode=related&search=

Hmmm...I'll need to figure out a dynamic pose for the little critter too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY9GBl7UmVs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEHQ85aAKsg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXcaFC1vF0Q&mode=related&search=

WyattHarris
07-30-2007, 07:08 PM
:scream: oh, savage buggers they look ...

the teeth, those claws .. the way its savaging the "picinic" table ....:eek:


Look at the bones! Oh wait, thats a rabbit.

Boone
07-30-2007, 08:44 PM
Monty Python rules.:D

Intervain
07-30-2007, 10:02 PM
OOOH I love 'em! They put a smile on my face when I walk to work every day - funny little critters with their 'Did I leave a gas on?!' look :scream:

Yav
07-31-2007, 06:57 AM
More like "I didn't just eat a walnut...did I?"

Boone
07-31-2007, 02:14 PM
Bit late on starting the actual work but I'm still in the process of collecting reference. As a matter of fact I just got back from the Abby and managed to "bribe" one of the Squirrels to pose for me. He was a bit nippy but fortunately I was armed with a shitload of nuts.

Plan of action is to find some pictures of the actual skeleton of the Grey Squirrel and start there insted of the base mesh. Having the skeleton will help me make a more acurate model. So yes, I'm hoping that taking more time on preperation is the key to success.

The photographs that I took about half and hour ago will go up tonight, hopefully with some skeleton pictures as well.

djltrain
07-31-2007, 04:21 PM
for hair and fur refrence look at the lighting challenge for the rabbit?

How about leaping from tree to tree? like the flying squirrel?

Boone
07-31-2007, 04:55 PM
That was quite interesting as some of the entries didnt use any compositing effect tools and still produced some decent results. Cool.:)

Heres a collection of the useable reference I made this afternoon. Still digging around for the skeleton refs but so far the only thing I can find a single entry for a Red Squirrel. And that wasnt much cop either...

http://uk.geocities.com/galatea_ips/external/FullSizeImages/GreySquirrel/Reference/Collarge.JPG

simjoy
07-31-2007, 05:19 PM
Plan of action is to find some pictures of the actual skeleton of the Grey Squirrel and start there insted of the base mesh. Having the skeleton will help me make a more acurate model.
So poisoned nuts and a sharp knife then ?? :scream:

Boone
07-31-2007, 05:28 PM
Re: Simjoy.

B-b-b-b-b-but - AWWWW how did you guess?:D

BadG3r
07-31-2007, 06:34 PM
lol

no boone's the The Squirrel Whisperer.

WyattHarris
07-31-2007, 09:46 PM
And that wasnt much cop either...


Hate to sound ignorant, but what does that mean, not in English english? By the context, "wasn't much help".

Stalsby
07-31-2007, 09:57 PM
Cool, I cant wait to see it!

Clanger
07-31-2007, 11:02 PM
Hate to sound ignorant, but what does that mean, not in English english? By the context, "wasn't much help".

Just means 'of little or no value' Don't know the origins (police arresting?) but just about everyone uses it here.

Can't wait to see some modelling.

Boone
08-02-2007, 04:38 PM
Okay people, I am going to have to bail out of this contest. Primary reason would be the difficulty with the fur simulation. My system is crashing during tests for the body fur - let alone the tail which will demand an even greater effort. I might have pulled off some tricks if composition was an option but even then it would have been a painful process. So to be honest it would be more a matter of having the latest machine and software technology rather than a modelling challenge. I really wanted to see this through, but maybe one day I will return to this project with a far more powerful machine.

The secondary reason is I want to pursue an old project that I never got round to. We leave so many things undone etc etc.

Still, I'm sure you can all let out a sigh of relief now that the intimidating Squirrel has gathered his nuts and dashed back inside the tree. Atleast you all have a chance of winning now!:D

KrakenCMT
08-02-2007, 05:09 PM
Say it ain't so, Boone! :(

You can still do it without the fur. Just sculpt the hair instead of using a fur generator and/or use bump maps to get hair texture. And just render it like a nice sculpture. No color texturing, just a nice sculpture material to bring out the form. I was thinking about doing mine that way myself.

Boone
08-02-2007, 06:43 PM
I did actually consider the sculpting option at one point but lo and behold I dont have a copy of ZBrush! And even if I did I wouldnt know how to use it. :sad:

But it is a good idea: Years ago I bought my parents a polar bear statue and the fur sculpting was brilliant.

Perhaps I might kidnap some ILM TDs to do it? Intimidate them with my gang of Squirrels!:twisted:

KrakenCMT
08-02-2007, 07:04 PM
ILM wouldn't stand a chance! :)

Actually Silo 2 has a 30 day trial with all the tools available and save enabled. You can export normal maps from it (and soon displacement maps from what I understand, but there's other workarounds you can do now for creating displacement maps from Silo models) which would be good enough for fur details.

I'm learning more about Silo ATM cuz I really like the modeling tools. And it's displacement painting is pretty nice as well. Not the detail levels as ZB but you can still get 1-2 million polys depending on memory which is probably good enough for squirrel fur. :)

Another option (and probably easiest) is to just bump map the hair, Kinda like I did with this model (http://www.loadedbrush.com/Coppermine1.3.0/displayimage.php?pid=188&fullsize=1) in areas like the muzzle and top of the head. Well, this was actually all sculpted in ZB but most of those areas could have been bump mapped and look very similar.

Combining the two methods would probably generate the best results. Using Silo displacement painting to get a general feel of the fur clumps and bump mapping the fine fur details.

RobertoOrtiz
08-02-2007, 09:33 PM
I would prefer if you sculpt the fur,

but if you wish you might try the fur technique used for the game

Shadow Of The Colossus...

Check it out:
http://www.team-ico.net/sotc/index.html

-R

WyattHarris
08-03-2007, 03:19 AM
Before you drop out, consider something a little less machine intensive like...

Star Fox (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4560169&postcount=8)

I'm gonna start with this and then simulate it if I can manage to figure it out.

Boone
08-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Re: Roberto Ortiz.

That is such a clever way of producing fur and would even work for the bushy tail as well. Hell, its definitely worth a try!:bounce:

Airflow
08-03-2007, 07:50 PM
If its a problem, Id say start modeling the body and worry about the fur later.

Nice referances btw.

Boone
08-04-2007, 05:57 PM
So yeah, I got bored this afternoon and decided to throw caution to the wind and...well...hell, its a start...

http://uk.geocities.com/galatea_ips/external/FullSizeImages/GreySquirrel/Renders/LowPoly01.JPG

http://uk.geocities.com/galatea_ips/external/FullSizeImages/GreySquirrel/Renders/LowPoly02.JPG

octopus7
08-05-2007, 01:01 AM
I'm glad you have decided to stick with it mate, good start!

Krystofor
08-05-2007, 01:03 AM
Glad you decided not to drop out - squirrels are such sute little guys and it would be a pity if their hairdo meant they weren't included.

Boone
08-05-2007, 03:18 PM
No idea how to go about the head so I thought it would be worth studying the skull. Give clues etc...

http://uk.geocities.com/galatea_ips/external/FullSizeImages/GreySquirrel/Renders/LowPoly03.JPG

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