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Wegg
03-26-2003, 01:56 AM
This topic is for users to show images and get feedback on their work.

Please only post images that are related to AM and that you are wanting constructive feedback on.

My Fault
03-26-2003, 03:39 AM
Cute, but a bit too simple perhaps. Due to his body shape and the way the arms are attached, I could see that causing animation/posing issues down the line. Maybe have the arms detached from the body? That would allow more movement, thus more expression.

Look forward to seeing more. :thumbsup:

Wegg
03-26-2003, 06:06 AM
I agree with My Fault. Its a cute idea but I think you are going to have a hard time making a convincing character with those itty bitty noodle arms. I'm also not a real big fan of jamming eyeballs into geometry. It always looks half done to me. Building in some small brows or lids might help a lot.

dinocarl
03-26-2003, 03:40 PM
Started this about a year ago. Originally, I was going to write a tutorial about it, but after the 6th page, I decided I couldn't finish that.

http://www.dinocarl.com/aesthetics/theropods/pages/trexskull.html
http://www.dinocarl.com/aesthetics/theropods/pages/trexskull2.html

I was thinking of trying out the porcelain and biased normals on him to work out some of the creases.

Thoughts?

Carl

Wegg
03-26-2003, 03:56 PM
Porcelian would probably help a lot. I think combined with a cracked bone like texture. . . you should be able to get some really nice imagry out of this mesh. Nice work.

JoeCosman
03-26-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by dinocarl
Started this about a year ago. Originally, I was going to write a tutorial about it, but after the 6th page, I decided I couldn't finish that.
Carl

Yeah, that's a tough mesh to teach modeling on. Gotta get those orbital fenestras and premaxilla just right. ;)

Good work on the skull there. I understand the difficulty on that mesh. I had an Albertasaur skull replica sitting on my bed when I was working on the Eggprops dinosaur skeleton.

porcelain should help that mesh out alot, mostly because you've got enough patches for porcelain to work with.

my only problem, is the teeth seem too small and too many...

alfiebabes
03-26-2003, 05:48 PM
Building eyelids onto spherical geometry will be great fun - I believe the newer version of AM (10) allows you to use the shift button to maintain curvature with your splines or you will get strange surfaces.

I agree with wegg about adding eyes to geometry as you have though.

"Noodle arms?" :scream:

nerrazzi
03-26-2003, 06:35 PM
I was mostly inspired to create the egg character and the rest of the egg citizens by watching things like, Sponge Bob Square Pants and killer bean. In killer bean, just about everything, his mouth, eyes, arms are just kind of sittin' there on the rest of the geometry. The same concept with Sponge Bob, personally I think that show's hilarious, and hope the kids think mine is too. I see what My Fault said about, "animation and posing issues down the line", but I plan on making it so that these egg people eat by tossing there food into the air and catching it with their mouths. They're not really designed to grab a wallet in the rear hip pocket or take off his hat. But if you laugh at the "noodly" arms, I'll take that as a compliment because I laughed at them too and thought the concept was funny in Toy Story stuck on Mr. Potato Head.

Wegg
03-26-2003, 06:47 PM
Well the difference there. . . is that Spunge Bob is 2D. You can get away with a lot more in 2D. Arms stretching to twice their length etc. With 3D. . . short funny arms and "stuck on" eyeballs just don't come off as well. Killer Bean was cool more for its animation than character design IMHO.

dinocarl
03-26-2003, 07:38 PM
Thanks Joe and wegg for the input. Of course I had seen the Albertasaur before I started working and there were many times when i was becoming frustrated by the difficulty of the task that I got verrry close to ponying up the dough for that exquisite model. Truly, I don't think I've ever seen a model as good as that in AM.

Now that you mention it Joe, I'll have another look at the teeth. I suppose I could argue that it is simply because the species continuously lost and grew new teeth in its lifetime, and this specimen happens to have been growing a lot of new ones at the time of its death, but good models are better than flimsy excuses. : )

I was planning on taking my laptop down to the museum to finish up the mesh, since I have no other references for the inside of the skull. And hey, I have a T. rex available to me- why not use it?

I also applied porcelain to it and found that all of my five point patches render black. From reading recent threads, I guess I'll have to rebuild these (the normals are all fine). More to come!

Carl

koon69
03-26-2003, 08:42 PM
Can you explain how this happens and any work arounds? By the way the model is awesome. I saw the rest of the stuff on your site - very nice. The renders of the full body are excellent!

HellBorn
03-27-2003, 06:23 AM
I also got some black 5 pointers.
I dont know why though.
If I check the normal its in the wrong directon but flipping it wont help. It removes the black but the black but the smoothing is still wrong. I have found out that I can solve it by removing the patch and then when selecting the 5 points again I do it in the opposite order.

My Fault
03-27-2003, 06:57 AM
The 5 point patch porcelain problem is still unpredictable but is being worked on. I wouldn't be surprised if it is fixed within the next rev or two.

dinocarl
03-27-2003, 05:34 PM
The five point issue sure is a head scratcher. ALL of the five point patches on this model rendered black. There aren't all that many of them, but enough that it'll take me a little while before I can get to it. I would like to use porcelain, though, to even out some surface anomolies.

Now that I write that, I realize perhaps that I may not need to bother. Once I apply bump maps to it, the artifacts may vanish into the texturing.

Carl

Bugle
03-27-2003, 07:25 PM
I know nothing of this porcelain material you speak about, but in my experience sometimes Hash drops 5 point patches for no apparent reason... i.e. maybe they render black because they are actually holes?

Just a stab in the dark...

ThorFury
03-27-2003, 07:29 PM
Howdy folks,

Here's what should be a familiar alien guy - I don't want him to be a clone of the original but fairly close. The legs are pretty lame now, but this is much more than you'll ever see of him in action.

http://www.cheesewars.com/alientest2.jpg

Thanks in advance for any comments or critiques,

Gregg

My Fault
03-27-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Bugle
I know nothing of this porcelain material you speak about, but in my experience sometimes Hash drops 5 point patches for no apparent reason... i.e. maybe they render black because they are actually holes?

Just a stab in the dark...

No, in this case it is a porcelain material problem.

FYI, porcelain.mat is a material that averages the normals of any group of patches thus resulting in a smoother look at render time. In older version of AM porcelain smoothed it out to the point you lost most if not all the detail. The newest incarnation lets you control the balance of detail/smoothness.

Wegg
03-27-2003, 10:58 PM
Man those arems are freakin me out. Make em twice as thick as they are and they would still look "funny" and thin. . . but not like. . . 3 pixels thin on a TV monitor. . .

Wegg
03-27-2003, 11:00 PM
http://www.cheesewars.com/alientest2.jpg



Pretty hard to see whats going on but. . . it looks pretty good. Should sit in well with the other characters you have done in your cheese wars series.

My Fault
03-27-2003, 11:01 PM
I like the expressiveness of the eyes and that massive sucker, but I'm with Wegg, those arms are almost not there they are so skinny. Have him do some bicep curls and close grip bench presses for a few weeks and build them guns up :p

nerrazzi
03-27-2003, 11:02 PM
Sorry! I had no idea you were so passionate about it. I'll take it down down... Well hashers, get those WIP's up.

Zaryin
03-28-2003, 03:20 AM
Ok I got a WIP here.

Dopus & Sox (http://home.wi.rr.com/zaryin/dopus&sox(skylight).jpg)

The guy in the back is named Dopus. He is supposed to be the Devil's secretary who works for good from the inside. He is actually already done.

The guy in front is Sox, the Sock Stealer. He's the guy you go looking for when you're missing a sock. As you can see, he is not done yet. He's got some bump and diffuse mapping on his hands and chest and just a basic color.

Also rendered with a skylight, but I don't really know how to use them.

Let me know what you think.

Ps: I love that version of the Alien.

ThorFury
03-28-2003, 08:55 AM
Pretty hard to see whats going on but. . . it looks pretty good. Should sit in well with the other characters you have done in your cheese wars series.

Thanks Wegg and Zaryin, but I guess I should have posed it in the standard T position. Sure, he'll show up in Cheese Wars, but wouldn't he make a great Polonius or King Claudius in my next act of Hamlet?

I've trying to figure out how to do the slime for his mouth. So far it's a couple of displacement maps and a couple of stringy models for the biggest drips. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Gregg

amsmf
03-28-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Zaryin
Ok I got a WIP here.

Dopus & Sox (http://home.wi.rr.com/zaryin/dopus&sox(skylight).jpg)



Very nice. Sox is gonna have some pretty short legs isn't he.

:)

Zaryin
03-28-2003, 05:55 PM
He might actually be placed slightly higher than he is now. He will still be pretty short though. :)

nerrazzi
03-28-2003, 09:31 PM
Check out this S10 I'm working on in my spare time.

Wegg
03-28-2003, 09:39 PM
Vrrrom. Thats more like it. No skinny tires. ;-)

PJC
03-29-2003, 05:39 AM
Here's something I've been working on...gonna be poster sized soon...

http://www.ccpots.com/PJCdemo/pjccomic/Fused/FUSED_tlm3.jpg

v10 AM

- pjc

daft
03-29-2003, 08:20 AM
Nice work all!

Like I have said in earlier posts on the forum, I have been testing out Wings3D.
Here I have taken a polymodel that I made last year and converted it to mdl file in wings. I have only tweaked upper part of the head and some splines around the eye. Have been up all night:) so I guess try to get some sleep now.
:surprised
I will post images of the poly model later on.

http://home.no.net/maxer/wip/MANVIEW01.jpg

http://home.no.net/maxer/wip/manview02.jpg

Wegg
03-29-2003, 05:51 PM
PJC: Nice mood. I'd personally attack the shadows around the character and his "chair". You have such dark areas in and around his body, but the floor directly under him is almost glowing.

Real slick though.

daft: I have made attemtps in the past to re-construct polygon models in AM and have usually given up in frustration. If I were to try it again though I'd stay in wings and try and attack all your 3 point polygons. Those are probably giving you the most problems in AM. Just punch em out and leave holes if need be. Those holes can be made into hooks of 5s in AM.

Zaryin
03-29-2003, 07:49 PM
nerrazzi: Good start to that car.

PJC: I like this, but I have to agree with Wegg about the shadow incontinuity (sp?). I still think it's more awesome than anything I have made.

daft: I like what you got going so far, but I would have just given up myself. I think it takes some real patience to do what you are doing. Good luck.

daft
03-30-2003, 01:13 PM
Well, I have never had any luck of making a head in A:M. I think I like more to start from a solid object, like in poly modeling. We´ll see how this one goes.

Wegg. I havn´t had so much problems with 3 point polys yet. I model the poly model some what clean of them. I am pritty happy so far with how it´s going and I haven´t done so much work on it till now. But know that I will run into problems with the nose and mouth area.
Some more images here
PolySmooth.
http://home.no.net/maxer/wip/manhighpolye.jpg
poly

http://home.no.net/maxer/wip/HeadPoly.jpg

Splines in A:M
http://home.no.net/maxer/wip/headSpline.jpg

nerrazzi
03-31-2003, 06:41 AM
Almost there... You can see a clearer shot on my website.

Pablo
03-31-2003, 03:29 PM
@ nerrazzi
your models look good, I think it would be a great idea to give your models which we can download from your page free here: http://www.hash.com/freemodels/

nerrazzi
03-31-2003, 03:42 PM
Thanks Pablo! Glad you like them. That's a good idea you have, I'll look into it. I just created a "World's Fastest Models" link on my website where you can download these models as soon as they're finished.

Zaryin
03-31-2003, 08:48 PM
Damn nerrazzi, that is lookin' gooooooood!

nerrazzi
03-31-2003, 10:51 PM
...'preciate it guys. There's a 360 deg. wireshaded .avi up on my website if anyone's interested in what that looks like, nothing much to it really. http://www.nerrazzi.com/main/id37.html

nerrazzi
04-01-2003, 08:18 AM
Well this is the last time I'll post any WIP's for this model. Just need to add finishing touches, mirrors, door handles, seats a few minor decals etc...

alfiebabes
04-01-2003, 10:11 AM
this was originally posted on the lip-sync mini challenge as

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/movies/beef.mov
sorenson3 Quicktime under 2mb

the newest version (half re-done) is

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/movies/beef02.mov
sorenson3 Quicktime under 1mb

comments and crits appreciated, I can't quite workout the "lag" I seem to see in the 2nd version - it's only an 850k file but plays real slow and jumpy on my PC at work. Even with 512mb of RAM!!

dinocarl
04-01-2003, 09:45 PM
that truck is lookin mighty fine, nerrazzi. i can't believe how fast you're building it, too!

BTW, i really like your site. your downloadable models are really great, especially the battlepod! i made an articpigs veritech a little while ago. if you got a pc with the plugin installed it's at
http://www.dinocarl.com/contestpigy/
i'm thinkin that now they're both on my computer, the clusters of misslies will start flyin ... :)

nerrazzi
04-01-2003, 10:26 PM
Thanks dinocarl! Sweet, glad you liked the battle pod... I was sittin' around looking for something to build when I came across an old Robotech book I had on the shelf. I was about to build that transformable Veritech Fighter but got side-tracked with work. BTW, that VF you have built looks good, I see it transforms too, nice touch. Later on I may try building Raidar X or The Spartan and include it in an up-coming demo I'm trying to produce. If you animate a war sequence with the battle pod, be sure and send us a link.

John Keates
04-02-2003, 10:30 PM
Ok. Here is a head that I am working on. Be harsh.

Oh, and does anyone have any tips for making the inside of a mouth? Last time I felt like a drunken dentist with no training.

JBarrett
04-02-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by alfiebabes
this was originally posted on the lip-sync mini challenge as

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/movies/beef.mov
sorenson3 Quicktime under 2mb

the newest version (half re-done) is

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/movies/beef02.mov
sorenson3 Quicktime under 1mb

comments and crits appreciated, I can't quite workout the "lag" I seem to see in the 2nd version - it's only an 850k file but plays real slow and jumpy on my PC at work. Even with 512mb of RAM!!

Not sure what the problem is w/ the lag. It seems to lag a little on this machine, too. What I do when I finish setting keys for the mouth is to take all the keys and slide them back (earlier) one or two frames. For some reason our brains tend to pick up on the visual slightly before the sound, so putting the visible shape slightly before the sound that accompanies it will look more in-sync than if the shape exactly matches the sound.

Re: the animation, it looks a little better, but still has a lot of the "poppy" problems I mentioned in the other thread. There also isn't much shape blending, which is something else mentioned previously. Try working on those two issues in your next pass.

Also get a mirror and watch yourself speaking this line. First watch your jaw for a while. The motion of the jaw isn't always tied to a particular shape of the lips. Also, the jaw is often where the accents in a line of speech are most noticeable, opening wider for stronger spots and much less for softer places.

While this is harder to do, notice the sounds that are made in conjunction with your tongue...things like S, T, N, G, K, etc. Even if you don't have a tongue in your character, it helps to notice that for sounds like these, the tongue is pressed on the roof of the mouth to some degree, which is difficult to do if the mouth is open very far. Basically, don't have the jaw open very far when creating shapes for these kinds of sounds.

Something else that I noticed w/ your model while looking through the clip frame-by-frame is that you have some spots where the lower teeth are moving up and down, but the jaw doesn't move. This shouldn't be happening because in real life, the teeth are connected quite solidly to the lower jaw. When the jaw moves, the teeth go along for the ride. Addressing this issue should help you create more effective poses.

Keep working at it! :)

Justin

Wegg
04-02-2003, 11:17 PM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/movies/beef02.mov
sorenson3 Quicktime under 1mb


Gah. . . that teal background. I have always hated that default color. My eyes just start wiggen out. Its like framing your art in neon paint factory.

The facial shapes you have for this dude aren't really working.

You have to really get a nice "eee", "ooo", "mmm", "Ahh", "Ffff" etc.

When you lay in your keyframes. . . you should never jolt from one extreme shape to the next. Blend them smoothly so that they overlap.

Also when your speaking. . . your lips make the shape of the sound before the sound comes out of your mouth. So in the case of the "FFFF" sound. . . your mouth makes that shape and is almost moving on to the "ire" part as the "f" sound is heard.

Hope that helps.

alfiebabes
04-03-2003, 07:38 AM
Thanks for your time firstly guys! The feedback is great. Here are the mouthshapes separately -

http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/tempstuff/mouthshapes.jpg

that seems to be the main problem picked up.

1) teal-background - the one and only time I tried changing AM's colour preferences on my Mac it crashed so bad locking up my OS I wiped the hard disk and re-installed everything. I've had to learn to live with it. it works OK on my PC...
2) creating the mouth shapes before the sound makes a LOT of sense - I actually found myself starting to do that but on "beef" only. I have re-worked a lot of the mouth shapes already and will try everything suggested.

3) I think the tongue issue will be solved by putting up a final render or rendering from a choreography as the lighting isn't picking up a tongue (it exists and is moving... honest!)

thanks again - I really appreciate your time on this guys

pequod
04-03-2003, 12:41 PM
Ok. Here is a head that I am working on. Be harsh.


Reminds me of a bust of Julius Caesar, especially with those eyeballs missing.:) Anyway, this resemblance is my way of complimenting you. No unsightly creases as well, dare I say it, almost marble smooth! Are you using the new Bias normals or Porcelain? One suggestion, maybe the neck as it sweeps into the back of the cranium is too concaved?

Oh, and does anyone have any tips for making the inside of a mouth?

Apart from extruding back from the lips, no.

JBarrett
04-03-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by alfiebabes
3) I think the tongue issue will be solved by putting up a final render or rendering from a choreography as the lighting isn't picking up a tongue (it exists and is moving... honest!)
It's not the existence of a tongue that's the issue, but the fact that on those shapes that correspond to sounds made with the help of the tongue, the jaw is open too far.

To use examples from your pic, look at the "N-D-L-T" pose. The space between his teeth looks about a finger's width. Put your finger between your teeth, then while holding that jaw position, touch your tongue to the roof of your mouth and try to make a "T" sound. The same jaw gap appears for "Th", so try making that sound with your jaw open that wide as well. To me, neither one sounds very good. When I make those sounds normally, my jaw is hardly open at all, with very little gap between the upper and lower teeth, closer to what you've got for your "H-S-Z" pose. In fact, try holding your jaw that wide, and you can make a whole range of sounds: S-C-K-G-Z-N-D-T-L-Th.

I would suggest consolidating your poses. Make a generic "jaw open" pose (primarily using a bone) that opens the jaw really wide, and use that to control overall jaw movement. Open it wide, you've got a shape for Ahh...open it just a little, and you've got the beginnings of most of the tongue-dependent consonants: S-C-K-G-Z-N-D-T-L-Th.

Then make a series of lip-only poses that deform the lips and not the jaw (or with very little jaw movement, again using the bone so that things blend better) and use those in conjunction with the jaw pose to get the various shapes you need for representing the other sounds.

daft
04-03-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by John Keates
Ok. Here is a head that I am working on. Be harsh.

Oh, and does anyone have any tips for making the inside of a mouth? Last time I felt like a drunken dentist with no training.

Nice head John. It´s seems that you're using quite alot of splines there, but still it looks smooth. Maybe you could post a wireframe of it?
Only thing that bothers me is the ear, it just looks little bit out of place to me. It´s looks more creased than that head.

Keep up the good work!

Pablo
04-07-2003, 11:05 AM
Hi, I'm also working on a new pic
LINK (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54507)

John Keates
04-07-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by pequod
Reminds me of a bust of Julius Caesar, especially with those eyeballs missing.:) Anyway, this resemblance is my way of complimenting you. No unsightly creases as well, dare I say it, almost marble smooth! Are you using the new Bias normals or Porcelain? One suggestion, maybe the neck as it sweeps into the back of the cranium is too concaved?

Hello there Stephen:wavey: Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am working on the eyes at the moment. I find it hard adding detail without the eyeball distorting. Maybe this is where the new "maintain curvature" thingy comes in.

I am using the new bias normals. Porcilain makes him even smoother the odd knoble here and there suits his face. Also, I am still getting problems with 5ppatches and porcilain. I hope they sort that out soon.

I am also using the new larger specular. It is realy good for skin (I think).

Cheers,
John

John Keates
04-07-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by daft
Nice head John. It´s seems that you're using quite alot of splines there, but still it looks smooth. Maybe you could post a wireframe of it?
Only thing that bothers me is the ear, it just looks little bit out of place to me. It´s looks more creased than that head.

Keep up the good work!

I hate doing ears! So much effort for something that people only notice when it looks wrong. If you have any further advice then it would be most welcome.

I am trying to attach another image file but I am getting a message saying that the file is too large. I have made it so small that you cant see it properly and put it on the lowest quality.

I may try again later.

Thanks,
John

kungfudork
04-11-2003, 06:39 AM
well,
i guess this is the place to post this. it is a WIP, but i also have a thread of it running too.....so if it needs to be moved from here, i understand. anyway, i got a new book called "maya character animation" by jae-jin choi, and i'm finding it to be pretty useful with A:M too. he uses 5 main phonemes to cover the basics of lipsynch.....so i tried out his method. here are the 5:
http://www.kungfudork.com/images/KIDPhonemes.jpg

i think i might use the porcelin material to smooth out his face, but i will wait and add that at the very end.....just in case it won't be what i expect. i'm trying to stay motivated with this character, so far so good(the motivation... that is).

-kungfud0rk

TacoTaco
04-11-2003, 07:28 AM
This is just a work in progress, the alleyway will have more building like objects in it soon, teh walls are just tiled right now.

http://www.polygondragon.com/random/alley_aa.jpg

The walls are modeled and the texture was whipped up in photoshop. The clouds are a digitally altered photograph i took with my digital camera.

-Mark Weller
AKA TacoBallZ
http://www.polygondragon.com

JBarrett
04-11-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by kungfudork
well,
i guess this is the place to post this. it is a WIP, but i also have a thread of it running too.....so if it needs to be moved from here, i understand. anyway, i got a new book called "maya character animation" by jae-jin choi, and i'm finding it to be pretty useful with A:M too. he uses 5 main phonemes to cover the basics of lipsynch.....so i tried out his method. here are the 5:
Pretty good start on this, but there's one missing from this group that kinda surprises me: an F/V shape. I'm not sure how the author of that other book can leave this out of a basic list of shapes. I use it often enough at work to know that it's very essential.

While the shapes do look good, there seems to be some overlap that could be taken care of by consolidating shapes. Look at "Eh," "E," and "Ah." They all have about the same mouth width, with the only major difference being how far the jaw is open. You could get the same basic effect by having two shapes: one that spreads the lips wider (side-to-side) than their default width, and one that just opens the jaw. Blend these two and you have all kinds of things at your disposal. Add a pursed "Ooo" shape (lips only) and you have several more you can use, again through blending w/ the others. Your current "ooo" shape looks more like a "ch" shape because the jaw is closed so far that the teeth are together. Take that basic lip shape and blend it with a slightly open jaw, and it would make for a better "ooo". (for all I know, you could already be taking this approach; if so...um...way to go! :) )

My main point is this: The movement of the jaw and the movement of the lips are completely separate things in real human speech, and for the best results, they should remain separate when preparing shapes for animation.

kungfudork
04-12-2003, 07:11 PM
jazbees: thanks for the comments, and i must agree about leaving out the "FV" phoneme....so i looked thru the book a bit more. i'm assuming what happened is that this book is a translation from chinese i think. i guess the FV isn't a common pronunciation, not sure. SO anyway i went back and watched "Rigging a Face" by Raf Anzovin and decided i am gonna follow his method. So i hope in a few days to have a complete overhaul of the phonemes and facial expresions(time willing...i got a kungfu tournament in SF next weekend). I'm also trying to really clean up the face and smooth it out, so the character's appeance might change a bit too.

-kungfudork:beer:

My Fault
04-13-2003, 06:54 PM
OK, started building my model for my entry in this month's CG-Talk's animation challenge (I swear I'm going to finish, hell or high water!). It's just the upper body so far. He's going to be fairly cartoony and I really want to redo the hands.... making them bigger. I'll be updating as I get more finished.

Any feedback will be appreciated!

http://www.2dornot2d.com/Ninja-Bodytest.jpg

binder3d
04-13-2003, 10:02 PM
Looking really nice. I would just add more detail around the upper chest area to show the bone a bit more. Great modeling. Will you combine this with more EI stuff?

Zaryin
04-13-2003, 10:40 PM
I myself kind of like the cartoony torso with the realistic looking arms.

Nice work so far.

My Fault
04-14-2003, 03:16 AM
Thanks guys! I'm definitely trying to walk a balance between cartoony and realistic. I've done a few head drawing, but haven't hit one I like yet. I think I'll get the body nailed down first and hope that helps me design his head.

Here's the latest. Tweaked the color to grey and added a lower body. Going to add some feet, probably tabi style shoes (split toes).

http://www.2dornot2d.com/Ninja-Bodytest2.jpg

kungfudork
04-14-2003, 05:12 AM
hey MyFault:
i really like the look! i can't wait to see how the head turns out! i did the same thing with my character, i started with a body and tried to build a head for it. it worked ok, but the head i built i really liked but it didn't work on the body.......so i guess i got two models out of one. just need to make a new body for the original head. anyway.....i wanted to ask what settings you use for the colors. i want to get that soft look to my characters too. are you using just the regular surface controls or is it a material you constructed? could you please share your settings?

thanks,
kungfudork

My Fault
04-14-2003, 05:26 AM
Thanks Kungfudork! I really like how your guy is turning out so far. Nice job!! :thumbsup:

Color settings on my guy are real simple. Just a basic grey with a small amount of rough and a simple gradient material to simulate a rim light.

I put the material up here:
http://www.2dornot2d.com/AmbientRimLight.mat

My Fault
04-14-2003, 08:19 AM
Let there be feet! :beer:

Tomorrow it's on to new hands and a head

http://www.2dornot2d.com/Ninja-Bodytest3.jpg

Rodger Reynolds
04-14-2003, 03:27 PM
http://www.netcore.ca/~reynolds/catalog/wip/WIP_pics.htm

-small town railroad station (wood frame construction) from the last century
-finishing up detailing and texturing
- 9339 patches, 656 decal stamps (to build the 4" external siding)
- consumes approx. 6Mb in a project

Zaryin
04-15-2003, 04:46 AM
Hey My Fault, I'm really liking this so far. That's also a great simple mat you got there.

Roger, Although I already sent you an e-mail about this I might as well chime in again.

I love this model. Of course, is you were going to use this model in a image or ani you would have to dirty it up a bit :).

amsmf
05-03-2003, 04:36 PM
Here's a bit of info on a character I'm working on:

http://www.numbmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=121#post121

rcory
05-13-2003, 08:35 PM
I'm kind of a newbie to this forum so If I do something wrong let me know. I've recently began using A:M at 8.5. I upgraded to 9.5 but I seem to like 8.5 better. Anyway, here are some characters and animations I've been playing around with :

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/puttyduderotosword4.avi

An attempt at rotoscoping action from video and cloth test.

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/buglook.avi

A stop and look action. Model is modified ant man from eggington.

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/dinorunnew4.avi

Well, more of a walk.

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/dinoyard3.avi

Testing out compositing on video.

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/spiderwalk6.avi

A slimy thing.

All of these are divx avi files.

I hope you don't mind but I'll probably have a lot of questions on A:M. Especiall when I get to 10.5

JTalbotski
05-14-2003, 01:33 AM
Hey Cory,

Great stuff! You've got talent. Thanks for sharing and don't hesitate to show more work.

Jim

pequod
05-14-2003, 09:18 AM
I agree, there's some good stuff here. The little dinosaur's 'walk' has a lot of character. The Ant man clip conveys a good sense of tension and reaction. I would however make his arms hold/press onto the wall behind him occasionally, or at least have them move a little bit more independently from his torso.

rcory
05-14-2003, 11:49 AM
I agree, he looks a little (a lot) rigid. Thanks for the comments. I'll be working on my animation techniques, and will need plenty of constructive criticism . Thanks.

Dalemation
05-15-2003, 10:59 AM
These are just a few models I created a couple of weeks ago for a short I am working on. The buildings were for the opening (establishing) shot which is now completed. The shed hasn`t changed but the house has a little.

I will try and post stills from the animation at the weekend.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

http://www.dalemation.free-online.co.uk/AMWIP.html

modernhorse
05-15-2003, 01:25 PM
Dalemation -
I really like the house and shed. Nice style. The green guys face appears to be a bit shiny, but not knowing what the story is about perhaps that is totally right for the character. Really nice stuff. Thanks for posting it.

zandoria
05-15-2003, 03:07 PM
I just started modeling a "Balrog" from LOTR. I'm planning on using some spriticles to make the fire.
http://www.zandoria.com/balrog.htm

Squeakypics
05-15-2003, 03:47 PM
Now there is a fine set of splines.
My breath is bated!:applause:

Dalemation
05-15-2003, 04:00 PM
Thanks Modernhorse. Yes, I agree, (and several friends have also pointed out) the green guy is a bit shiny. I haven`t finalised anything yet and still mucking about with textures on the characters. I have several characters still to model. I just got so excited about animating the camera move on the opening shot and creating all the models for that that I neglected the characters for a while.


The Balrog model is amazing Will. I see stuff like that and realise just how much progress I have yet to make. A good excuse to stick with my cartoony stuff for the time being I think.

Dale.

Cosmics
05-15-2003, 08:45 PM
That's beautiful :thumbsup: , hard to believe you did all that in one day. Can't wait to see more!

Cosmics

zandoria
05-19-2003, 05:42 AM
OK, the modeling of the Balrog is done!
6,081 patches at last count...

I may not get a chance to work on the textures for a couple of months, as I work on some paying projects, but I will get back to it!

http://www.zandoria.com/balrog.htm

rcory
05-19-2003, 06:48 AM
Whoa!:eek:
Looks good. I see you had a sketch on the page, do you also develop a front and side roto to go by, or do you just start drawing with splines?

zandoria
05-19-2003, 01:40 PM
I always draw a rotoscope for a couple of views, scale it to the right size, make it un-pickable, and make some guidelines.
the guidelines help line-up the same features in the other views.

Dalemation
05-26-2003, 01:28 PM
I have just added an animation to my site. It`s only a camera move which is the opening shot of my film but comments and advice would be welcome.

http://www.dalemation.free-online.co.uk/AMWIP.html

1.4mb


I can get on with some character animation now!

Dale.

JBarrett
05-26-2003, 01:44 PM
Looks great, Dale! You've obviously put a LOT of work into this clip. I love all the detail in this opening scene. Can't wait to see more! :)

Dalemation
05-26-2003, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the great encouragement Justin. I did spend quite a time on it because I just wanted to find how far I could go on my Athlon 2000 before everything started to slow to a halt. Also, I was just finding the modeling so therapeutic after animating all day at work!

The computer did start to get sluggish towards the end but I don`t think many of my scenes will be as complicated as this. The tree trunk was from the disk included on Jeff Paries AM 2000 handbook but I created everything else and learned loads in the process. There are lots of Flocks in there - the leaves, flowers, grass etc.

The Targa`s took nearly 26 hrs to render (D1 PAL). I wanted to use the multipass in V10.5 but it wouldn`t have been practical. I will just use it for higher quality stills I think.

Dale.

JoeW
05-31-2003, 09:45 PM
Dude! You modeled that in a day!? Did you have someone come in and throw water on your hands every now and then (hissssssssss) - LOL! Anyway, sweet head model! My only comment would be that with all that beautiful detail in the head, it looks like the body kind of got the short end of the stick(?) Of course, if he's going to be swathed in smoke and fire, theirs no need to push it too far - wasted work, really.....

I look foward to seeing him in all his firey splendor! It will be interesting to see what you can get out of AM's spriticle system...

JoeW

BTW - Some GREAT pencil work on your site... mmmm...

JoeW
05-31-2003, 09:55 PM
Hmmm - looks very promising...

Given the "cartoony" nature of your characters, I'd highly recommend the use of Porcelain on your models - the granny model would look much better with it, as would the Creepy character. I've been using it on some of our hi-res game models for marketing-renders, and it's made a huge difference...

I uploaded an "unsweetened" version of a render that came right out of AM using porcelain. A lot of people thought this came out of Lightwave or Maya....

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/Samples/GlobalJuju0.jpg

JoeW

PS - the lighting is courtesy of Yves Poissant's "global illumination" rigs...

JoeW
05-31-2003, 10:05 PM
Hey Cory,

I think you'll find a few people who agree that 8.5 was probably the most solid and "figure-out-able" of the AM versions. 10.5 is coming along, but we've got a lot of work ahead of us to get it where we want it (gotta be the "squeaky wheel"!)

Some really nice stuff there - I won't repeat what's already been said :) I thought the reflections on the sides of the van in the rotoscoped shot was a nice touch (they're a bitch to get right, wouldn't you agree?)

I'm suprised you got AM's cloth to behave as well as you did - and I really liked that fire efffect in the first clip - how did you do that?

Feel free to ask questions - AM's community (whether it's "sanctioned" or not) - is a pretty helpful one :)

Once again - keep up the good work!

JoeW

JoeW
05-31-2003, 10:23 PM
Well, I don't think I'm going to finish this one in time for Expose', but hopefully by mid-June (I want to get some new prints made :)

I'm not completely happy with the pose, and there's no composition to speak of (yet) but it reminded me of a nice body-builder shot so I trussed it up and decided to post it.

I'm deeply regretting some of the modeling decisions I made early on (splines in the wrong places, not enough detail in others) - but I guess it's all about learning and getting better, right?

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/Bisley_Hunter_Sword.jpg

JoeW

My Fault
05-31-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by JoeW
Well, I don't think I'm going to finish this one in time for Expose', but hopefully by mid-June (I want to get some new prints made :)

I'm not completely happy with the pose, and there's no composition to speak of (yet) but it reminded me of a nice body-builder shot so I trussed it up and decided to post it.

I'm deeply regretting some of the modeling decisions I made early on (splines in the wrong places, not enough detail in others) - but I guess it's all about learning and getting better, right?

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/Bisley_Hunter_Sword.jpg

JoeW

How freaky, that looks just like my wallpaper :p

Awesome job Joe :beer:

John Keates
05-31-2003, 11:44 PM
WOW!, I would realy like to see some wires of your models. Particularly hunter. Also, how did you get the joint contortions looking so good?

Pablo
06-01-2003, 10:32 PM
@ JoeW hey I love GlobalJuju0!!!
it has to be the new mascot for next next year!!!
big compliments, just great!!!

JoeW
06-02-2003, 12:14 AM
Thanks, Nicco - you got it first :)

John - I will post some wires as soon as AM starts rendering them - right now it won't render shaded wireframe to file (it pukes), and I don't think you can see very much with a screen capture. I'll post as soon as the Hash guys get this little issue resolved... :)

Pablo - Thanks for the compliment - that model was actually built by Jeff Bunker (not me) and textured by Ryan Wood (the guy who created the "Can Head" painting that was used in the marketing material for Painter 6. He's an amazing painter.... All I did was set her up and render her. I don't think we'll be able to use her for a Mascot, though - she's a character out of a game we're working on called "Tak and the Power of Juju" - so our publisher might have a problem with Hash using her for a Mascot :(

I put up some other renders for you - check out:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/Juju-Junior.jpg
ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/LocBig.jpg
ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/MoonJuju_Attitude.jpg
ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/MoonJujuSMSW.jpg

Also, just so you know - the MoonJuju is luminant - she gives off light - thus the glow. I probably should have put a light down by her feet to more accurately convey that, but ah, well - maybe next time....

JoeW

Dearmad
06-02-2003, 02:15 AM
I love her crosseyed look- pretty cute little creation you got there!:thumbsup:

JoeW
06-02-2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Dearmad
I love her crosseyed look- pretty cute little creation you got there!:thumbsup:

Thanks - I'll pass that on to the guys who designed/modeled her :) (Todd Harris and Jeff Bunker)

In regards to her being a bit cross-eyed, well, she's not supposed to be, but she looks that way because of the exaggerated scale of the head and eyes. This image was really just thrown together - she's in the process of getting a proper rig, and some smartskinning...

I hope at some point to be able to post some animations with her - it depends on what kind of permissions we get from our publisher...

JoeW

JoeW
06-02-2003, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by John Keates
WOW!, I would realy like to see some wires of your models. Particularly hunter. Also, how did you get the joint contortions looking so good?

OK - cobbled together a wire image for you - it's at:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/BH_Wireframe.jpg

In regards to getting the joints to look as good as they do, well, it's a combination of "Orient Like" bones + lots of smartskinning + some CP-level tweaking once everything is in place - but 90% of it is smartskin - the greatest thing to happen to Characters since IK.....

JoeW

rcory
06-02-2003, 02:43 PM
--Hey Cory,

I think you'll find a few people who agree that 8.5 was probably the most solid and "figure-out-able" of the AM versions. 10.5 is coming along, but we've got a lot of work ahead of us to get it where we want it (gotta be the "squeaky wheel"!)

Some really nice stuff there - I won't repeat what's already been said I thought the reflections on the sides of the van in the rotoscoped shot was a nice touch (they're a bitch to get right, wouldn't you agree?)

I'm suprised you got AM's cloth to behave as well as you did - and I really liked that fire efffect in the first clip - how did you do that?--
( sorry I don't see how to qoute here...)

Joe,

Yeah, the reflection took some tweaking to get right. Especially since I just eyeballed the scene, size and placement of the standins.
Now the cloth, that took some tweaking! I had perfect cloth in this one animation http://www.alltel.net/~rccollins/berserkerconcept2.avi

But when I messed around and added another one I had to re do the cape and ended up with-

http://www.alltel.net/~rccollins/berserkerconcept.avi

:surprised

I shoulda wrote down those settings.
:surprised

The fire was actually done with Illusion, from Wondertouch, a very nice litle program with real time particle effects. Go to wondertouch.com for more info. I just planted the fire from Illusion onto an image plane with an alpha channel. It's actaully very similar to 9.5 spriticles. Same concept I believe.

Your renders are truly awsome, thanks for the inspirational jolt.
I'm glad I found this forum.

Cory

Squeakypics
06-02-2003, 04:40 PM
JoeW
Thanks for posting all those inspirational pics. they are much appreciated.
A small questionette:
When using porcelain do you need to add extra splinage to keep the definition in the detailed areas? Last time I tried it (admittedly some time ago) everything whent a bit mushy. Ideally, I'd like my stuff to come out looking a little like the Tak stuff.

kungfudork
06-02-2003, 05:28 PM
hey joe,
any possibilities of seeing the facial mesh from the JuJuJunior character.........actually any of the characters? possibly a front and a birdseye view. i always have trouble with modeling the neck, chin, and back of the head. my stuff usually looks ok in the front view and all abstract in the side view. i would love to see how Jeff Bunker modeled those faces. (any 5 pointers in there?)

any chance of some more vids from the game. i love the style and the fact that it was done in A:M is a true inspiration!

thanks,
dieter

JoeW
06-03-2003, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by rcory
--
Yeah, the reflection took some tweaking to get right. Especially since I just eyeballed the scene, size and placement of the standins.
Now the cloth, that took some tweaking! I had perfect cloth in this one animation http://www.alltel.net/~rccollins/berserkerconcept2.avi

But when I messed around and added another one I had to re do the cape and ended up with-

http://www.alltel.net/~rccollins/berserkerconcept.avi

:surprised

I shoulda wrote down those settings.
:surprised

The fire was actually done with Illusion, from Wondertouch, a very nice litle program with real time particle effects. Go to wondertouch.com for more info. I just planted the fire from Illusion onto an image plane with an alpha channel. It's actaully very similar to 9.5 spriticles. Same concept I believe.

Your renders are truly awsome, thanks for the inspirational jolt.
I'm glad I found this forum.

Cory

Thanks Cory - I'll keep putting stuff up if you do :)

Cloth in AM has always been pretty hit and miss - I've found it frustrating to say the least - especially after working with Motion Designer (LW's soft-bodies plugin). Hmmmm... something to put on the list of things to push for. I know that Hash is planning to implement some of the physics we have in our game engine - some very fast physics. It's not TRUE soft-bodies, but you can fake a lot of cool stuff with it...

Ah, yes, Particle Illusion - I know it well. I used it for the commercial we did for Nickelodeon - it's a very cool little program, and can definitely save a lot of time. If you haven't upgraded to 3.0, it IS worth it. Thanks for letting me know :)

Something I wanted to mention - the main neck bones on your Beserker look like they are too low in the mesh - like he's pivoting his head from the wrong place, and you're getting that collapsing in the trapezius area - you might look at moving the bones up, or, using Orient Like bones - or - just smartskinning him... just a suggestion.. :)

Originally posted by Squeakypics
--
JoeW
Thanks for posting all those inspirational pics. they are much appreciated.
A small questionette:
When using porcelain do you need to add extra splinage to keep the definition in the detailed areas? Last time I tried it (admittedly some time ago) everything whent a bit mushy. Ideally, I'd like my stuff to come out looking a little like the Tak stuff.

Thank YOU guys for the feedback :)

In regards to porcelain, yes, you do have to add a little detail if you want the detail to be *really* sharp - BUT - having said that, if you haven't used it lately, you haven't used it. AM used to do a 2x2 normal sampling across the patch - it tended to smooth the model out very severly. We lobbied Hash - and got them to up the sampling to 4x4 - this allows you to use the same lower patch count, and still have good detail. Also, under the attribute under the porcelain material, in the surface attributes (way at the bottom) is a function called "Normal Weight" - the lower you set this value, the less "porcelain" effect there is. You need to tweak it a bit, but it's nice in that you can apply different porcelain amounts to different groups on the model. Sorry for the jumbled explanation - I hope that helps :)

Also in 10.5, 5-point patches render VERY well - I used them on Hunter in places I NEVER would have used them in the past - and you can't tell at all.....

Originally posted by kungfudork
--
hey joe,
any possibilities of seeing the facial mesh from the JuJuJunior character.........actually any of the characters? possibly a front and a birdseye view. i always have trouble with modeling the neck, chin, and back of the head. my stuff usually looks ok in the front view and all abstract in the side view. i would love to see how Jeff Bunker modeled those faces. (any 5 pointers in there?)

any chance of some more vids from the game. i love the style and the fact that it was done in A:M is a true inspiration!

Hey Dieter,

I put up a wireframe of the MoonJuju's head at:
ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/samples/jujuwire.jpg

I had to laugh when you asked if their were any 5-point patches in there - not that you would know it, but Jeff is the 5-point patch and Hook KING! He uses those darn things in places that mortal men will never be able to get away with it.... the AM gods look fondly upon him.... and guys like me have to figure out how to get around them - LOL!

In regards to things looking funny in the side view, well, I'd suggest that you make some rotos of someone you want to look at for a long time - and if you're lucky, they MAY let you draw lines on their face to help you run splines. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to just keep practicing at it. The more you model, the more you SEE what should and shouldn't be. I look back at my first head models and am amazed at how much I see that's wrong with them...

I hope to be able to post more game movies as we get closer to being completed. Right now, we're pretty crushed under our deadlines, and as soon as we get a little breathing room I hope to be able to post some nice screenshots and maybe some gameplay movies....

JoeW

kungfudork
06-03-2003, 02:16 AM
Joe,

thanks for the great wireframes! i must agree the A:M gods look fondly upon Jeff. i am no longer scared to use hooks and 5 pointers after seeing this mesh. well, i guess for practice i am gonna try to model something similar to juju.........we'll see what happens.

thanks again,
dieter

John Keates
06-03-2003, 10:32 AM
I am a big fan of hooks and 5p patches also and since 10.5 have been using them with gay abandon. However, I have been finding that the following do not work well with porcillain:

5p patches that are butted up to each other

Hooks onto 5p patches

Hooks that connect onto one of the side positions of a spline.

A lot of hooks and 5 pointers about the place.


When I use the above, I get sharp lines and wacky normals (resulting in black patches etc).

When I started moddeling, I had a very slow computer and so I swatted those splines like flies. I even have a character whose entire belly is made from just one patch.

I have asked hash a few times wheather they are going to make porcilain compatable with the more skimpy modelling methods above but maybe they are just too busy to reply.

Should I just bite the bullet and put those extra splines in or wait for porcilain to be porcilained?

rcory
06-03-2003, 01:05 PM
Joe,

I haven't upgraded Particle Illusion yet, I don't use it that much to be honest. IT is very cool though. A timesaver. If you look at the early animations in the gallery at wondertouch's site you will see a figure throwing magic with his hands... he's mine, Alan added the sparkles. That was a while ago, when Impulse was carrying Illusion, the little guy was done with Imagine, before I got A:M.

You are right about his neck. I have already added an intermediate bone and it looks better now. I'll post some more tests if you'd like to see'em.

Cory

no0ne
06-03-2003, 11:35 PM
:xtreme:

some of these wips are frontpage material!!!!

have a new juju desktop :love: thx

wanted to go to bed now
but berserker & huntress won't let me! :eek: :applause:

thx for sharin

Squeakypics
06-05-2003, 06:10 PM
Well, I've just given porcelain a go in the latest beta and by jove it works!!!
The only problem is that I seem to get lots of black patches. If I look at their normals they are facing the wrong way. If I flip them They render correctly but with sharp edges. (To get them right I have to remake them)
My question to 'them what knows' is; are there any modeling strategies I can adopt that will keep my normals as they should be. I'm a bit fogged as to how I manage to have them flipped in the first place.

John Keates
06-05-2003, 06:36 PM
If you right-click in the moddeling space then you get an option "refind normals" then those sharp edges go without you having to re-make things. However, as I mention above, it is possible to confuse the poor program with gratuitous use of hooks and 5p patches. Hopefully they are working on this still.

zandoria
06-05-2003, 06:42 PM
:thumbsup:
John, great tip!

Squeakypics
06-05-2003, 10:44 PM
John:
Thanks. That is a bit of a time saver and no mistake!
I'm off to give it a go now

antonyw
06-06-2003, 07:44 AM
Hi, Joew

Really good pictures, all of it are very professional, I love those render so much(Jeff Bunker are always wont disapointed us :)

I have some questions hope u let us know how to do in AM.

1. The Bisley_Hunter, are u used Specularity Map for the skin?
(I feel really hard to get such spec. effect on skin)

2. How do u map Bisley_Hunter's skin? I cant find out any map edge problem, that is really good mapping.

3. could u post little skin map out there? color, bump, spec....etc.

4. How long u made the Bisley_Hunter(day, week, month)? just want to know professional artis working time :)

Many thanks for your help in advanced.
Regrads
Antonyw
p.s software is not a big problem, professional artis is the main concern.

rcory
06-06-2003, 11:27 AM
Here are a couple more animations-

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/podanim.avi

Just something for a short that never came to fruition. I like the eye movements. Thought I'd share.

http://http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/blockwallfall6.avi

Here I need some help. This guy is supposed to be 14 ft tall, massive- yet agile and fast. Any ideas on how I could convey both of these ideas in actions, poses, etc, are welcome. If this should come under a different thread, I'll be glad to move it. But it is a wip.

Cory

rcory
06-06-2003, 11:30 AM
That should be

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/blockwallfall6.avi

Cory

hoochoochoochoo
06-06-2003, 03:54 PM
Cory, tried both your links. Maybe my firewall stops "alltel" but I'm not sure.

Joew - would love to see your work but the Hash FTP is so slow each time I try. Maybe you should put a download or visitor counter to see how much your work is viewed?

rcory
06-06-2003, 04:16 PM
I just tried them both....both seem fine here...also checked with wsftp, both are up on the server...

Cory

antonyw
06-06-2003, 04:41 PM
Hi, Rcory

I downloaded the blockwallfall6.avi, it's good animation.

Could u let me know the wall is Keyframed by Hand or using Dynamics?

If Dynamics, can u write some simple tutorial or step by step to create it?

Thanks
Antonyw

Originally posted by rcory
That should be

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/blockwallfall6.avi

Cory

hoochoochoochoo
06-06-2003, 05:24 PM
OK some points

1) I'd like to see a LOT more reaction when the guy lands and a lot more build up to the jump. He's very stiff legged at present.
2) His right leg penetrates one of the boxes but you prolly got that spotted already.

Great animation of the boxes though. Very well done. Maybe one or two need to fly straighter or upwards before falling down to earth - I mean he's a big nasty looking guy (or gal)

rcory
06-06-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by hoochoochoochoo
OK some points

1) I'd like to see a LOT more reaction when the guy lands and a lot more build up to the jump. He's very stiff legged at present.
2) His right leg penetrates one of the boxes but you prolly got that spotted already.

Great animation of the boxes though. Very well done. Maybe one or two need to fly straighter or upwards before falling down to earth - I mean he's a big nasty looking guy (or gal)

Yeah,

The penetration, and the boxes are distracting. THis particular scene is just cobbled together. I really shoyuld have left those out for now. I'm lookin more for like the the first point. Overall ideas for big yet fast creatures.

The boxes are rigid body dynamicized. (if that's a word) Very simple construction there as well. I'll throw together a mini-tute, but I gotta go to work now....:scream:

Cory

JoeW
06-06-2003, 11:16 PM
Hey All - sorry about slacking - we're working on cinematics for the game and it's eating up a ton of my time....

-----------------------------------------------------------
John Keates wrote:
If you right-click in the moddeling space then you get an option "refind normals" then those sharp edges go without you having to re-make things. However, as I mention above, it is possible to confuse the poor program with gratuitous use of hooks and 5p patches. Hopefully they are working on this still.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I agree with zandoria - excellent tip, John - thanks :)

In regards to 5-pointers and hooks, I use 5-pointers when there's no better solution, and I use hooks ONLY in places that are relatively flat and are not likely to be deformed much during animation...

------------------------------------------------------------
antonyw wrote:
Hi, Joew

Really good pictures, all of it are very professional, I love those render so much(Jeff Bunker are always wont disapointed us

I have some questions hope u let us know how to do in AM.

1. The Bisley_Hunter, are u used Specularity Map for the skin?
(I feel really hard to get such spec. effect on skin)

2. How do u map Bisley_Hunter's skin? I cant find out any map edge problem, that is really good mapping.

3. could u post little skin map out there? color, bump, spec....etc.

4. How long u made the Bisley_Hunter(day, week, month)? just want to know professional artis working time

Many thanks for your help in advanced.
Regrads
Antonyw
p.s software is not a big problem, professional artis is the main concern.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Antony,

To answer your questions:
1. Yes, there is a specularity map on Hunter's skin - and a diffuse map as well (it's at about 15%). The maps are all based on the same color map - just converted to greyscale with a little blur - and different amounts of contrast and brightness. The map was pretty easy to make - one of the guys here at work has a girlfriend who had about the skin tone I was looking for. One day she was in the office and I asked if I could take a picture of her back (she was wearing a shirt that exposed her back). I took that image, made sure that I cloned out any distinct coloration or markings, then made the map tileable in Photoshop. The other maps (spec, diff, etc) were based on this map. What I do is use this as an *underlay* when I paint maps - i.e. use it as a background, then paint your details on top of it. If you stay away from painting over the edges of your decaled area, you *should* have about the same value of skin color - and you can avoid seams (of course, it's not perfect, but nobody is going to see it unless you do some really hi-res renders).

2. I break the model into sections (inner and outer arm, front and back of legs, breasts, etc. I try to break the maps at natural divisions in the body - where shapes come together - this helps hide any "seams" that may show a bit. I make groups that are for selection of the individual areas only, then actions of each of the groups flattened out. I open the flattening action, take a screen shot of it, take it into Photoshop and paint over it. One other trick is that I map the whole character (roughly) with a checkerboard pattern so that when I begin to stretch points around for flattening, I can tell how much I've distorted the patches. this also helps me keep the skin map at the same scale across patches.

Hunter *does* have some seams, but 2 minutes with a smudge tool took care of all that in Photoshop. I, obviously, wouldn't do that for an animation, but a still tends to get lots of attention.....

3. I'll see what I can do about the maps... but it's pretty easy to make your own - nothing magical or difficult about it...

4. I made Hunter in about a day...... LOL! Just kidding. I've been messing with that model for a long time - about a year on and off. I originally had her all built in V8.5 - then V10 messed everything up, so I had to rebuild a good portion of her. If I had to *estimate* how long it would take me to rebuild her, I'd say a couple of weeks of full days to build, map, and rig her. I work with guys who could do this in half that time - I'm just slow :)

The key to any big project for me is to not look at the whole project at once - if you want to build a great character, work on it every day - but just a little at a time. One of my friends has the "5-minute" rule when he works on his drawings - he says that every day, no matter what, he's going to draw for at least 5 minutes. If he feels like quitting after the 5 minutes is up, he does - but he usually goes longer.

I worked on Hunter in my free time - some times, I'd just do something like rig a finger - but I tried to at least touch it every day... It usually ends up "done" before you realize it...

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Cory,

I looked at your animations - I like the pod animations - the first part is darn near spot-on - the only thing that struck me is that for as "flexi" as he looked, when he's dropping the outside foot, his body needs to drop lower and then recover after the foot contacts the ground - right now the rotation (fall) is stopped a bit abruptly - i.e. you need a touch more secondary motion.

In the pod walking sequence, when he lifts his foot to step forward there is a bit of a "pop" - but having said that, it also adds a little personality to the walk, so, that's a tough call... hmmmm - I could see either side of that.

The first thing that pops out at me on the berserker anim is that it looks like your character is on a cable - like he's being *pulled* up into the air by a cable between his shoulderblades. I think that you need more "windup" before the jump. If he's huge, he's going to need to crouch quite a bit before he jumps - and it would help if he swung his arms back a bit. When he launches, he needs to lead with his head - I see that you added some secondary motion there (the head drops down on launch), but it's more appropriate to have that at the LANDING than the takeoff. If you have a video camera, it would help you to video yourself jumping like you want him to. Also, in the initial part of the shot, I'd put him in a "comic book"pose - like his fist smashed forward into the wall - and hold it until the wall is out of the way. Right now, it's hard to tell if HE broke through the wall because of his pose when you can finally see him - remember, DRAMA is often just as critical as believeable movement - and with a character like this, you need to exaggerate his movements. The last thing I'll comment on is the body posture and path taken during his jump. At the beginning of the jump, he needs to lead with his head and possibly arms, but on the descent, he needs to lead with his feet. Right now, he's very vertical, and it makes him look sticky and weightless. Stretch him out at the beginning, and wad him up at the end. His "flight path" needs to be a parabola - right now he moves forward then kind of drops out of the sky.

It's a good idea to push your poses farther than you think they should go - then back off from there - you may find that the "extremes" you put into your animation add more "life" and don't look as "wrong" as you might have thought.

Remember that big and fast don't usually go together without a LOT of exaggeration in the movement. Take a video of you getting up from a crouch as fast as you can - then strap or hold onto some weight and do the same. If you CAN achieve the same speed, you're going to have a lot of overshoot (inertia) do deal with. WEIGHT is critical to believability - when you look at an animation of a supposedly huge creature that you've done, think to yourself - would I want him stepping on my toe? Does he look like he weighs as much as I think he should - or, does he look like a ballerina on the moon?

Don't misunderstand - these are just MY perceptions. You will either find something - or you won't - in them. It's a good animation, and it needs just a few tweaks to make it a GREAT animation.... :)



----------------------------------------------------------------------
hoochoochoochoo wrote:
Joew - would love to see your work but the Hash FTP is so slow each time I try. Maybe you should put a download or visitor counter to see how much your work is viewed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm - that's strange. I don't have a page up - I just use the FTP as a place to put stuff up - are you looking at a webpage? I usually get a pretty good rate off of their FTP site (usually about 20-30 kb/S). What are you trying to view? Are you messing around in my stuff? LOL!

JoeW

Damn, am I a page hog, or what?

antonyw
06-07-2003, 09:40 AM
Hi, JoeW and other hasher.

Thank you for your details repiled :bounce: Now I know how to do such great character using A:M. btw, do you(JoeW) have any scenes used A:M? if yes, could u post some out there? we also want to see how's good the scenes(background, building....etc) can be done using A:M, it is another hard things.

I'm too lazy(and not enough time) to make such great details character :( we always has 1 - 1.5 months to do all the animation...(we using A:M + 3dMax for all the animation, of course Illusion for all effects).

The following link is what we were using A:M done before. I will post latest game render out soon.

http://www.antonyw.com/identity/identity-monsters.html

Thanks again!
Regrads
Antonyw

rcory
06-08-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by JoeW
Hey All - sorry about slacking - we're working on cinematics for the game and it's eating up a ton of my time....

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Cory,

I looked at your animations - I like the pod animations - the first part is darn near spot-on - the only thing that struck me is that for as "flexi" as he looked, when he's dropping the outside foot, his body needs to drop lower and then recover after the foot contacts the ground - right now the rotation (fall) is stopped a bit abruptly - i.e. you need a touch more secondary motion.

The first thing that pops out at me on the berserker anim is that it looks like your character is on a cable - like he's being *pulled* up into the air by a cable between his shoulderblades. I think that you need more "windup" before the jump. Don't misunderstand - these are just MY perceptions. You will either find something - or you won't - in them. It's a good animation, and it needs just a few tweaks to make it a GREAT animation.... :)



----------------------------------------------------------------------
JoeW

Damn, am I a page hog, or what?


Joe,

I liked the pod meself. I don't know if the "pop" in the walk was intentional or not. It may have been I didn't account for the duplicate frame in the cycle. I don't know. It kinda reminds me of a toddler...

Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I wouldn't post and ask for feedback if I wore my feelings on my sleeves. After all, I'm still learning. I thought exactly the same thing...It reminds of a jumping rig, or when they did those test on extracting soldiers with a low, slow flying airplane. I kept adjusting the hieght and timing but to no avail. I'll try some more extreme posing and see how it looks. Thanks.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, Rcory

I downloaded the blockwallfall6.avi, it's good animation.

Could u let me know the wall is Keyframed by Hand or using Dynamics?

If Dynamics, can u write some simple tutorial or step by step to create it?

Thanks
Antonyw

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The boxes were animated using rigid body dynamics. I was trying out A:m's to see what it would look like. TO make things manageable, I started with very primitive cubes. Just the eight points and six faces. I did not know how fast it would calculate, and didn't want to get bogged down. Realize thought that the simulation doesn't calculate between points. (or at least I don't think it does) So if I used more points on the blocks, theoretically, there would be less pass through.

I made a plane, with about 10 divisions x and z so the blocks would not literally fall through the floor. I made one cube, as described above, and a ball, with about 32 patches I think. Remember to check the normals to make sure they are all facing out, and facing up on the floor.

On to the choreography, I added the floor and then 22 blocks by dragging and dropping 22 times. I then added the rigid body constraint to each block. I didn't see a way to copy a block with the constraints on. (I'm new at this, remember?) I then added the ball, added rigid body constaint,and keyframed some motion for about the first ten frames to get the trajectory of the ball headed to the wall. A little tip: Just like in life you have to throw the ball up a little. A straight trajectory towards the wall kept dropping the ball too soon. ( the floor ended right behind the wall) Then run the "simulate rigid bodies" command for the choreography. (Right mouse click on the choreo name) At first the blocks kinda shook and vibrated a tad bit. But then I turned off the rigid body constraint on the first ten frames, or until right before the ball hit. This solved that problem. DO this with the percentage amount on the rigid body constraint, zero percent on frames 0 to 9, 100 percent frames 10 to end of animation. BTW, i used default values for the constraints and the simulation.

When I got ready to add the character, I deleted the ball, so it wouldn't render. So you see, the ball actually knocks the blocks over in the simulation, but the blocks have their own keyframes for position and rotation after you simulate, so you don't need the ball any more.

Sorry If I didn't explain it well. I could post a project file if asnyone is interested.

Cory

Now who's the page hog?

hoochoochoochoo
06-09-2003, 10:00 AM
Hmm - that's strange. I don't have a page up - I just use the FTP as a place to put stuff up - are you looking at a webpage? I usually get a pretty good rate off of their FTP site (usually about 20-30 kb/S). What are you trying to view? Are you messing around in my stuff? LOL!

I nearly took the bait Joe! No, not messing in your stuff - I presume you have a password protected hash page anyway? I have tried your links to your work and I am finding really slow download times.
Not a critiscism of you in any way - just wishing I could see your images!

alfiebabes
06-09-2003, 11:47 AM
http://members.lycos.co.uk/aphil/tempstuff/squirrel.jpg

In progress, started yesterday morning and there's still tweaking to do - surfaces to remake. 1200 patches so far and I'm onto nostrils & teeth when I get home tonight.

Mainly looking to see that it's not similar to "Scrat" from Ice-Age. I'm going to get this model out of my system then do an overweight unathletic version. The fat squirrel will then feature in my "beef" wip.

Any feedback appreciated - Alf

JTalbotski
06-11-2003, 04:36 AM
Here's a WIP of Mighty Mouse that I also posted on the main WIP page. Any helpful crits to make it better or links to better image references would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/MIGHTY.jpg

Cosmics
06-11-2003, 07:16 AM
I love mighty mouse
his expression is great!
awsome render too :applause:

pequod
06-11-2003, 08:48 AM
:thumbsup: That's brilliant Jim. I think only the hands could be more cartoony.

Squeakypics
06-11-2003, 09:51 AM
Blimey!
There is some very nice stuff being squeezed out of AM nowadays!
Very nice Jim I'm very much looking forward to seeing him progress.

I agree about the hands. The mouse in question sould be wearing those standard issue opera gloves ans per the picture in the following link:
http://ecards.heavystorm.com/cards/Youth/Animation_Cartoons/Terrytoons/2.html

My only other thought is that I would like to see a tiny bit more definition on the feet.

John Keates
06-11-2003, 11:48 AM
Wow! I assume that was done in 10.5 with porcilain.

I agree with the above comments about the hands and feet. There is also a very slight suggestion of creasing here and there (if you realy want him extra smooth). Other than that, I can hardly fault him. Good work.

JTalbotski
06-11-2003, 01:46 PM
Cosmics- Thanks!

pequod, Sqeakypics and John- I also agree about the hands and feet. Someone suggested on the A:M list about adding a tad more definition to the elbow areas, too. I have seen different versions of Mighty Mouse online, some with the gloves and some with flesh colored hands. I'm leaning toward the gloves to get the total cartoon look. The feet were the thing I struggled with the most, believe it or not. There' not a lot of reference for his feet available.

I didn't use porcelain, just the bias normals and some bias tweaking. The porcelain made the 5 point patches render badly, even after I did the refind normals "fix".

Thanks, guys.

Jim

Eman597
06-11-2003, 07:34 PM
JTalbotski, that mighty mouse looks AMAZING- really nice job, hope you animate it soon!!!:thumbsup:

JTalbotski
06-11-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Eman597
JTalbotski, that mighty mouse looks AMAZING- really nice job, hope you animate it soon!!!:thumbsup:

Thanks! I don't really animate, but if you have A:M, I'll let you animate him when I release him to the A:M community free models area. That may be a while as I still have to rig him.

Bill_Young
06-12-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
Cosmics- Thanks!

I didn't use porcelain, just the bias normals and some bias tweaking. The porcelain made the 5 point patches render badly, even after I did the refind normals "fix".

Thanks, guys.

Jim

Thats one "mighty" fine looking model there Jim. Seems lots of people are having issues with porcelain. So here is the way to fix it at the moment:

Summery:

It seems the 5 point patch blackening error is due to inverted normals, and when you flip them to the corect direction they just don't redraw corectly untill you save, close and open the file.

The details:

1. Make sure you've finished modeling your object, and smoothing it as best you can.
2. Apply porcelain.
3. Turn on normals.
4. Refine the normals on your model. This should make almost all your normals face the same direction with the exception of some 5 pointers.
5. Using the select patch tool, select any normals that are not facing the same direction as the majority of normals are and flip them.
6. Once all normals are facing the same direction if they happen to be facing inward select your whole model and flip the normals so they are facing out. (this is for things like hair that are normal spacific)
7. Save your model or project if it's embeded and close the project
8. Load your project again and magicaly the 5 point patches that wern't blending with the surounding patches now are, and all is good with the world. ;)
9. If certain areas are getting smoothed to much insert an extra spline in that area to force the porcelain to interpolate diferently.
10. Repeat the process after refining your surface as needed.

If you still have errors with the surface at this point it's probably due to an inverted normal some where. Find the patch and flip it.


-Bill Y.
http://www.anzovin.com

JTalbotski
06-12-2003, 03:03 AM
Hey Bill,

I sent you a private thanks, but thanks again. I did what you suggested and here's the result. Mighty is now mighty smooth.

Jim

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/MightySmooth.jpg

pequod
06-12-2003, 09:09 AM
Jim,
The hands are better, although personally I'd make them much more like Mickey Mouse's, you know more stuppy and rounder. Please don't add anymore definition to his arms, he's got to remain a cartoon figure and that's why I like the feet as they are.
:beer:

JTalbotski
06-12-2003, 12:09 PM
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the advice, especially from someone whose work I admire so much.
I understand the desire to make his hands more like Mickey's but I am trying to remain true to the version of Mighty Mouse that I like the best:

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/mighty_ref.jpg

Maybe I can make his fingers just a little shorter to get the cartoony look a little more. I went as far as I plan to with the arms, they're done.

(I'm still trying to decide whether to add the eyelashes and blush on his cheeks.):)

Jim

lildragon
06-12-2003, 01:31 PM
Heya Jim let me know when you're finished that ;) BTW have any new works? would love to start plugging A:M stuff :D sometimes I do miss those days ;)

keep rocking as usual man!

salud

JTalbotski
06-12-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by lildragon
Heya Jim let me know when you're finished that ;) BTW have any new works? would love to start plugging A:M stuff :D sometimes I do miss those days ;)

keep rocking as usual man!

salud

Hey Tito,

Sure thing, I'll let you know. Here's someting I was working on for a while, but real work interrupted me and I didn't feel like going any further with this.

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/POSTERsmall.jpg

Thanks,
Jim

modernhorse
06-12-2003, 06:00 PM
You didn't feel like it!! HUH? You didn't feel like it!!!!!

But seriously that is really quite nice. Tell us more. What was it for? Done with A:M?

JTalbotski
06-12-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by modernhorse
You didn't feel like it!! HUH? You didn't feel like it!!!!!

But seriously that is really quite nice. Tell us more. What was it for? Done with A:M?

HA! Well, I wanted to try out the decals that drive the hair attributes, so I took a model that I had and gave her a leopardskin loincloth. Pretty soon she just developed into this character. I did this scene for James at Hashso he could create a poster for their displays at different conventions and shows. All done in A:M.

Jim

nerrazzi
06-18-2003, 06:09 PM
Wow! That's remarkable... You're like the Steven Stahlberg of A:M
http://www.androidblues.com/

JTalbotski
06-18-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by nerrazzi
Wow! That's remarkable... You're like the Steven Stahlberg of A:M
http://www.androidblues.com/

nerrazzi,

Thanks, that's a *huge* compliment. But his work is much more finished and detailed than anything I have ever done in 3D.

I've been slowly working to develop a model with more realistic long hair using the guide hairs in v10.5. But I haven't had much time lately.

Anyone got some guide hair images to show?

Jim

Dalemation
06-19-2003, 12:19 AM
I`ve just added an animation of a walk test I did on one of my characters.

http://www.dalemation.free-online.co.uk/AMWIP.html

Dale.

nerrazzi
06-19-2003, 12:53 AM
Speaking of Guide Hairs in 10.5, do the hairs have any specularity or create shadows when illuminated in a choreography? I don't have 10.5 yet, may upgrade when 11 gets here...

Obnomauk
06-19-2003, 02:13 AM
Yes,

and due to the improved lighting model and other such niceties in 10.5 hair shows in the raytracer now, meaning reflections, etc withouth having to turn on geometry at the material.

-David Rogers

rcory
06-19-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
Hey Tito,

Sure thing, I'll let you know. Here's someting I was working on for a while, but real work interrupted me and I didn't feel like going any further with this.

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/POSTERsmall.jpg

Thanks,
Jim


Whoa! Incredible. Both pictures.

rcory
06-19-2003, 10:13 AM
Sorry,

I didn't know the quote would copy the picture. Oh well, it bears repeating anyway.

JTalbotski
06-24-2003, 05:05 PM
rcory,

Thanks! Here's an update on Mighty Mouse as I work on his rig.

Jim

http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/MightyFlying.jpg

rcory
06-24-2003, 07:04 PM
Hi Jim,

I've got a question about the eyes...are the pupils made of splines or are they decalled?

John Keates
06-24-2003, 08:43 PM
That arm deformation looks realy good. How much of that is smartskinning and how much is done with bones?

JTalbotski
06-24-2003, 10:13 PM
rcory: The black parts of the eyes (pupils) are geometry (squashed spheres), not decals. They are attached to bones and smartskinned to remain at the surface of the eyeball itself when the bones aim in different directions. You can see a little shadow from the pupil on the right eyeball.

John Keates: Thanks. It's a combination of mostly bones and some touch ups with smartskin.

To be totally honest, I had to do a lot of tweaking of cp's to get the torso smooth in this pose. I'm still working on the rigging.

Jim

Zaryin
06-25-2003, 09:33 PM
That is looking real good, Jim. I love Mighty Mouse, and this is a great representation.

JoeW
06-25-2003, 10:33 PM
Hey Jim,

I would have been posting more, but work is dominating my time - we just finished the opening cinematic to our game (in AM) - it was right down to the wire...

Really nice looking stuff!(as always).. You prolific guys always make me feel lazy :) I really like your African Princess character - nice lighting and composition.

Mighty Mouse is looking good, too. As a small suggestion, you might try putting a little more contra posto in the pose. One thing I see a lot in 3D characters (I even catch it in my own) is that when they raise their arms, their shoulders don't follow - if you were to really stretch him out, push the right shoulder up toward the top of the head, pull the left shoulder down a bit, then kick up the left hip and have the right leg really stretch back - it would make the pose a lot more dynamic :)

Of course, this is just a nit - it's a sweet model regardless :)

JoeW

pequod
06-25-2003, 11:51 PM
Excellent as always Jim.
I agree with Joe's suggestions. My 'Mosey' character had similar proportions, ie. a head so big that when his arm was raised his hand could barely touch his nose. Of course when you draw a cartoon character you simply bend the rules and draw it until it looks right. With Mosey I had to resort to dislocating his arm and stretching it that way!
Maybe a little bit of head tilt would also improve Mighty's pose.
Oh yes, and the African Princess is going to make a stunning poster.

Bill_Young
06-25-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by JoeW


Mighty Mouse is looking good, too. As a small suggestion, you might try putting a little more contra posto in the pose. One thing I see a lot in 3D characters (I even catch it in my own) is that when they raise their arms, their shoulders don't follow - if you were to really stretch him out, push the right shoulder up toward the top of the head, pull the left shoulder down a bit, then kick up the left hip and have the right leg really stretch back - it would make the pose a lot more dynamic :)

JoeW

Lack of contra posto is one of my biggest gripes with so many images; however, I would go on to say it's not just related to 3D characters. If you look at alot of Preston Blairs animation books there are alot of characters that lack contra posto in there as well. One thing that always seems to throw people off is loose clothes. A hanging tee shirt for example will dangle almost parallel to the ground even if the hips are twisted, so the problem is most eople look at the shirt line to deduce their hip angle, and wind up with a less interesting final pose. I agree that MM could use a bit more hip and sholder rotation to add a little more power to his pose.

-Bill Y.

lildragon
06-26-2003, 01:18 AM
Beaut Jim, I'm loving it! Some colleagues of mine a few weeks ago were talking about all the super-hero movies and guess who came up ;)

Nice stuff

-lild

JTalbotski
06-26-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by JoeW

Mighty Mouse is looking good, too. As a small suggestion, you might try putting a little more contra posto in the pose. One thing I see a lot in 3D characters (I even catch it in my own) is that when they raise their arms, their shoulders don't follow - if you were to really stretch him out, push the right shoulder up toward the top of the head, pull the left shoulder down a bit, then kick up the left hip and have the right leg really stretch back - it would make the pose a lot more dynamic

Hey JoeW, pequod and Bill Y. Thanks for your comments, I couldn't agree more about the lack of power in the pose. I want to blame it all on the fact that I'm still rigging him, but that wouldn't be true. I've done some more rigging and re-rigging and came up with this pose ( even before I saw your posts). Better?

Thanks again,
Jim
http://home.attbi.com/~talbotj/MightyPose.jpg

JTalbotski
06-26-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by lildragon
Beaut Jim, I'm loving it! Some colleagues of mine a few weeks ago were talking about all the super-hero movies and guess who came up ;)

Nice stuff

-lild

Thanks, lildragon. I think they would need to give him a personality before they make a movie about him. ;)

Jim

pequod
06-26-2003, 01:41 AM
Much better!:buttrock:

Zaryin
06-26-2003, 04:35 AM
I love that pose. I think you should post both that, and the African Princess to the Finished Works section and give them something more to talk about that was done in A:M.

Cosmics
06-26-2003, 06:49 AM
That new pose is soo full of energy!! Awsome work :thumbsup:

JTalbotski
06-26-2003, 01:16 PM
pequod, Zaryin and Cosmics

Thanks! I took your advice Zaryin and put the African Queen in finished art forum. I also put an update in the Mighty Mouse thread of the WIP forum.

Jim

JoeW
06-26-2003, 03:08 PM
Hey Jim,

Mighty Mouse's new pose is MUCH improved - he looks like he's pausing mid-air to give you a smile - then on his way to kick some bad guy booty :)

I want to comment on the African Princess image - and I thought this would be a better place to do so. I want to reiterate that I think it's a beautiful image - you need to keep that in mind. These are just impressions, so feel free to do with them as you like - they are *my* preferences, and as such are merely opinions. I try to live by the addage that "If you try to please everyone, you'll please no one" - this is especially true with art. So, here goes:



Round the shoulders a little bit - especially the pronounced "crest" on the top of the deltoid (use muscle mode or smartskin). You may also consider toning down the deltoid insertion, but that's up to you - think "curves" :)

Revisit the deltoid-pectoralis intersection - the pectoralis should be the dominant muscle, so you may want to change the direction of the "crease".

Warning: Biased Stylistic Suggestions: I don't mind the thighs being heavier, but you might think about giving her bigger boobs - or thinning down her thighs. Her hips are great, but from the size of her arms, and the toned nature of her upper half, you expect sleeker thighs.

Avoid straight lines if possible. The outside of her left thigh and the right side of her neck kind of pop to me. Also, in regards to the neck, you may want to thin it down - the distance from the edge of the face to the edge of the neck is critical when doing female portraits - too little distance and they end up with "football player neck."

The inside bulge of the quadricep around the left knee should be a bit more pronounced (IMHO) - keeping with the "toned" nature of the upper body, and you might try to thin down the area just below the belly of the calves (Africans tend to have pretty short muscle bellies, so their joints (ankles) are typically slender). BTW - she looks very Somali to me (I left Mogadishu about a week before the "Blackhawk Down" thing...)

Finally, you might try setting your light sizes to something like 10 or more inches (assuming Klieg lights) and turn your Rays Cast to something like 10 to 16. This will soften up the shadows and give a much more comfortable feel to the lighting.

Once again, I think this IS a great piece - there is elegance, strength, great lighting and composition. The suggestions I make are stylistic, and very much like something you would hear from the artists at Avalanche when we critique each other's work.

I've posted a "tweaked" image to:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/CGTalk/POSTERsmallTWEAK.jpg

I wanted to send it to you privately, but your e-mail is blocked :(

Anyway, these are just suggestions - so you can tell me I'm all wet if you want :)

JoeW

JTalbotski
06-26-2003, 04:12 PM
Hi JoeW,

Thank you very much for your input! I agree with almost all your points. I'll comment on your suggestions individually.

((Round the shoulders a little bit - especially the pronounced "crest" on the top of the deltoid (use muscle mode or smartskin). You may also consider toning down the deltoid insertion, but that's up to you - think "curves" :)))

I like toned shoulders on a woman but I did leave too much of a peak on hers. I probably won't round them as much as you indicated in your tweaked image, though. (Thanks for taking the time to do that!)

((Revisit the deltoid-pectoralis intersection - the pectoralis should be the dominant muscle, so you may want to change the direction of the "crease".))

You're so right about this, but I've always struggled with the rigging of the shoulder area. Realistic deformation is still eluding me. Sigh.

((Warning: Biased Stylistic Suggestions: I don't mind the thighs being heavier, but you might think about giving her bigger boobs - or thinning down her thighs. Her hips are great, but from the size of her arms, and the toned nature of her upper half, you expect sleeker thighs.))

Ahem, uh, I did struggle with the temptation to make her more endowed. :) But I wanted to express her regality and dignity as much as I could.

((Avoid straight lines if possible. The outside of her left thigh and the right side of her neck kind of pop to me. Also, in regards to the neck, you may want to thin it down - the distance from the edge of the face to the edge of the neck is critical when doing female portraits - too little distance and they end up with "football player neck."))

I agree about the too straight lines on a figure, although when I paint a figure it's important to have the contrast of straight and curved lines to give the figure strength and solidity. You don't want them looking like mush. :) Maybe the neck looks too thick because she has a ponytail type hair style that blends in with the neck. Maybe a fill light there would help define the neck better.

((The inside bulge of the quadricep around the left knee should be a bit more pronounced (IMHO) - keeping with the "toned" nature of the upper body, and you might try to thin down the area just below the belly of the calves (Africans tend to have pretty short muscle bellies, so their joints (ankles) are typically slender). BTW - she looks very Somali to me (I left Mogadishu about a week before the "Blackhawk Down" thing...)))

I agree completely with the above suggestions. Somali or not, I only tried to make her a beautful black woman.


((Finally, you might try setting your light sizes to something like 10 or more inches (assuming Klieg lights) and turn your Rays Cast to something like 10 to 16. This will soften up the shadows and give a much more comfortable feel to the lighting.))

Yup, you're right. The shadows are too sharp. I'll re-render it that way. Oh boy, I hope I saved the project!

((Once again, I think this IS a great piece - there is elegance, strength, great lighting and composition. The suggestions I make are stylistic, and very much like something you would hear from the artists at Avalanche when we critique each other's work.))

Thanks, I respect your opinion and appreciate your input. And you're not all wet.

Jim

John Keates
06-26-2003, 04:29 PM
That looks much better! He is now on my desktop and I have been giving him a good old eyeball. I think that this is a great image and it is about time that MM made a comeback. I will be as critical as I can, partly for the sake of my own practice but also because I think that this image could be just about perfect with just a few more tweeks.

Here are my comments:

The pose is really good. The hands are fantastic. The mouth is just right (except maybe it needs a little more top lip. The chest is pushed out like a real superheroes'.

I would like to see a little more shine on his clothes so that they look more like latex or something (I guess that this is subjective though).

He needs a lot more shine on his eyes; they look matte at the moment.

His nose suffers from AM nipple and it is catching the light a bit. I have found that in 10.5 I can get away with using three 3p patches around a quad to end things. You might want to try this. I have even been using 3p patches joining 5p patches in important parts of faces and all sorts. This is a really important improvement for me and makes modelling so much more fun and creative.

The knee of his left leg has been snapped backwards just a little too much for a still image (for me). It is an expressive gesture but I think it needs toning down as it looks a little odd when you see it in isolation. (maybe just angle the leg further back so that the hand covers the knee). Or maybe he needs more of a knee-cap.

Ask Hash to sort out the jagged light distribution around terminator. (particularly noticeable on the cloak). In a high contrast image that would look really bad and isn't the sort of thing that we want non-hashers to see.

I would like to see a little bit of the Mickey Mouse effect on his ears. I had a feeling that there was something odd about his head and now I can't stop looking at the absence of the right ear. He would have a much more cartoony appearance if we could see it. We would if he were drawn.

Maybe darken the underside of the cloak a little to spread the contrast around the image and give it more punch.

I can't make up my mind about the blue rim light showing up in unlikely places (mouth + belt). I think it is Ok but I don't know.

Maybe he needs some subtle colouration on the lips. He looks a little anaemic/plastic at the mo. ( bit of a contentious issue as there is no colour on the orrigional, but things are different somehow in 3D).

There is a bulge where his arm-pit should be

There should be more suggestion of roundness at the top of the rim of his boot.

The neck of his cape is maybe a little thick

His tongue looks a little grey. Maybe warm up the colour or give it some ambiance.

Make the red on his buckle a different colour to his knickers to give some variety and contrast there.

Thin out the clouds to give the sky a more “sunny day” appearance.

Make the teeth a little less wide so that he is more mousey and his smile looks wider.

Errrr… I think that is it.

I have to say that I feel a little odd giving such a lengthy crit to one of the people whose work encouraged me to buy A:M.
Pequod, JoeW and others are here too so I feel a little like a jumped-up twerp. But I guess a few suggestions here and there don’t do any harm. If reading the above feels a little like being slapped round the face then I apologise.

I hope that my opinions are helpful.

pequod
06-26-2003, 04:45 PM
I'm glad you guys are having this public discussion, it's all very instructive.

Ask Hash to sort out the jagged light distribution around terminator. (particularly noticeable on the cloak). In a high contrast image that would look really bad and isn't the sort of thing that we want non-hashers to see.


I think that can be solved by adjusting the bias in the light's shadow options.

JTalbotski
06-26-2003, 06:33 PM
Hi John,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

((The pose is really good. The hands are fantastic. The mouth is just right (except maybe it needs a little more top lip. The chest is pushed out like a real superheroes'.))

Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by top lip. Do you mean just the space between his nose and the mouth opening? I modeled him with this area pulled up to show his teeth for his "heroic glamour smile". :)

((I would like to see a little more shine on his clothes so that they look more like latex or something (I guess that this is subjective though).

He needs a lot more shine on his eyes; they look matte at the moment.))

I struggled with that decision and felt that no specular was more pleasing to me. The highlights I was getting were distracting to me. Also I was basing this off of a 2D image where there weren't any highlights, even on the eyes. I guess I fell prey to trying to match the reference and not what looked best.


((His nose suffers from AM nipple and it is catching the light a bit. I have found that in 10.5 I can get away with using three 3p patches around a quad to end things. You might want to try this. I have even been using 3p patches joining 5p patches in important parts of faces and all sorts. This is a really important improvement for me and makes modelling so much more fun and creative.))

Good catch. I knew it was there but convinced myself it wasn't a big deal. I will try what you suggested.

((The knee of his left leg has been snapped backwards just a little too much for a still image (for me). It is an expressive gesture but I think it needs toning down as it looks a little odd when you see it in isolation. (maybe just angle the leg further back so that the hand covers the knee). Or maybe he needs more of a knee-cap.))

I see it now that you mention it. I don't want to add any more detail to the mesh so I'll try lessening the hyperextended look to it.

((Ask Hash to sort out the jagged light distribution around terminator. (particularly noticeable on the cloak). In a high contrast image that would look really bad and isn't the sort of thing that we want non-hashers to see.))

I'll try what pequod suggested about this. (Thanks, Stephen!)

((I would like to see a little bit of the Mickey Mouse effect on his ears. I had a feeling that there was something odd about his head and now I can't stop looking at the absence of the right ear. He would have a much more cartoony appearance if we could see it. We would if he were drawn.))

Actually all the reference images I found had only one ear showing. His head was at a 3/4 angle in those images, a little more turned away than my view.

((Maybe darken the underside of the cloak a little to spread the contrast around the image and give it more punch.

I can't make up my mind about the blue rim light showing up in unlikely places (mouth + belt). I think it is Ok but I don't know.))

I wanted to create a cartoony feel to the image but without the toon lines (I personally don't like toon renders with the computer generated lines very much). I wanted the colors to be bright and clean, without too many dark shadowed areas. I probably went to bright on the warm light coming up from under him. I'll see about tweaking that.

((Maybe he needs some subtle colouration on the lips. He looks a little anaemic/plastic at the mo. ( bit of a contentious issue as there is no colour on the orrigional, but things are different somehow in 3D).))

I was considering giving him some blush color to areas of his face but never tried it. I'll give it a shot and see.

((There is a bulge where his arm-pit should be))

You're right. I needed a break from rigging his arm and shoulder and just left it the way it was. I don't think I'll add an armpit, maybe just smooth the area out more.

((There should be more suggestion of roundness at the top of the rim of his boot.))

Right again. I saw it but didn't fix it. My bad.

((The neck of his cape is maybe a little thick))

Some reference showed a thicker cape, but mainly it gives me some room to pose him without having tthe cape sink into his torso. (Pure laziness)

((His tongue looks a little grey. Maybe warm up the colour or give it some ambiance.

Make the red on his buckle a different colour to his knickers to give some variety and contrast there.

Thin out the clouds to give the sky a more “sunny day” appearance.))

Thanks, but I don't think these issues need to be addressed. I like they way these look.

((Make the teeth a little less wide so that he is more mousey and his smile looks wider. ))

I actually did that aleady but maybe not enough.

((Errrr… I think that is it.

I have to say that I feel a little odd giving such a lengthy crit to one of the people whose work encouraged me to buy A:M.
Pequod, JoeW and others are here too so I feel a little like a jumped-up twerp. But I guess a few suggestions here and there don’t do any harm. If reading the above feels a little like being slapped round the face then I apologise.

I hope that my opinions are helpful.))

Your comments were very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to examine the image and give me your feedback. It will only make the image and model better.

Thanks,
Jim

Dearmad
06-26-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by JoeW
Warning: Biased Stylistic Suggestions: I don't mind the thighs being heavier, but you might think about giving her bigger boobs - or thinning down her thighs. Her hips are great, but from the size of her arms, and the toned nature of her upper half, you expect sleeker thighs.

JoeW [/B]

I can't resit, even though the artist has replied. thankfully, with a no to this. What Bias is this you mention you have that wants bigger breasts or thinner thighs. Her thighs are damn sleek as they are- clearly not athletic at any rate- I've seen HUGE thighs on black women who run, or are athletic, with smaller breasts,

Since when is breast size linked to thigh size?

In looking over the image again, her thighs any thinner would be a distraction to me.

But really, I'm curious: what "bias" is this you mention? Just a Playboy taste for boobs? :shrug:

John Keates
06-26-2003, 07:47 PM
((Hi John,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.))

Your welcome.

((Thanks. I'm not sure what you mean by top lip. Do you mean just the space between his nose and the mouth opening? I modeled him with this area pulled up to show his teeth for his "heroic glamour smile". :)))

To be honest, I am not quite sure what I meant by that. Seemed to mean something at the time. Maybe it is something to do with that fill light that you might tone-down. Dunno.

((I struggled with that decision and felt that no specular was more pleasing to me. The highlights I was getting were distracting to me. Also I was basing this off of a 2D image where there weren't any highlights, even on the eyes. I guess I fell prey to trying to match the reference and not what looked best.))

Maybe try the glossy toon-nation shader. You can have it crisp without being too bright.

((((Ask Hash to sort out the jagged light distribution around terminator. (particularly noticeable on the cloak). In a high contrast image that would look really bad and isn't the sort of thing that we want non-hashers to see.))))

((I'll try what pequod suggested about this. (Thanks, Stephen!)))

Yes, it would solve the problem. However I find that with higher bias settings you get light strips at the base of shadows. Sometimes I can't find a good middle ground. It seems reasonable to expect a fix as I can't remember this problem being so prominent in earlier versions.

((Actually all the reference images I found had only one ear showing. His head was at a 3/4 angle in those images, a little more turned away than my view.))

Fair doos.

((I wanted to create a cartoony feel to the image but without the toon lines (I personally don't like toon renders with the computer generated lines very much). I wanted the colors to be bright and clean, without too many dark shadowed areas. I probably went to bright on the warm light coming up from under him. I'll see about tweaking that.))

Mabe just a subtle use of toon shading without the lines would be the method of choice. (allthough I am not sure if shadows work with this - not an expert here).

((I was considering giving him some blush color to areas of his face but never tried it. I'll give it a shot and see.))

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Cheers,
John

JoeW
06-26-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Dearmad
I can't resit, even though the artist has replied. thankfully, with a no to this. What Bias is this you mention you have that wants bigger breasts or thinner thighs. Her thighs are damn sleek as they are- clearly not athletic at any rate- I've seen HUGE thighs on black women who run, or are athletic, with smaller breasts,

Since when is breast size linked to thigh size?

In looking over the image again, her thighs any thinner would be a distraction to me.

But really, I'm curious: what "bias" is this you mention? Just a Playboy taste for boobs? :shrug:

My "bias" is for "aesthetic balance". If you're creating a portrait of a real person, then reality in proportion is the call of the day - but if you're creating a character from scratch, then, it depends on what your purpose for that character is.

My suggestions were simply that - *my* suggestions (as stated repeatedly in the comments). Jim can disregard them if they don't fit his "vision" of this character - simple as that.

I'm a bit insulted by your "Playboy boobs" statement. Most of the time, however, derogatory comments like yours come from women who are dealing with "body image" issues. To answer your question, yes, I like women who are more "proportionate", and I won't appologize for that preference (much as the femnazi's of the world would like to make me feel "guilty" for feeling that way).

Note that I said *proportioned* - I don't care for huge boobs on a thin frame any more than the opposite.

We are all entitled to our opinions. In the future, if you disagree, I'd hope you find a more neutral way to express it.

JoeW

Dearmad
06-27-2003, 04:48 AM
And what would a more neutral way be? To not post my curiosity at all? To begin discussing feminazi's?

I specified where I thought I was unclear in your opinion and asked for clarification. You said you had a "bias," then didn't specify the bias- I was curious where it was coming from. I also reference real-klie experiences in models I've used for various photo shoots: black women in particular, athletic ones (runners/sprinters/jumpers). I never noticed any rlation between the proportions of their thighs to their breasts. In fact most of the ones with really sleek thighs (like the image in question) had breasts even smaller than our man's image.

To racap: I was just wondering where *your* bias was coming from, as I knew where mine was coming from.

You're insulted by an attempt to communicate? Well, I'm truly sorry for your sensitivity.

BTW: Since you're pretty sensitive, why do you think references to "feminazi's" would garner any further intelligent conversation? I didn't know there were any nazi's of the feminine persuasion posting to this group.

BTW: I LOVE big boobs, man, I really do. :love: :wavey: I'd have to say I have a playboy taste for boobs.

Hookflash
06-27-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by JoeW
To answer your question, yes, I like women who are more "proportionate", and I won't appologize for that preference (much as the femnazi's of the world would like to make me feel "guilty" for feeling that way).

:applause: :thumbsup: I TOTALLY agree with you on this one. I grow tired of being made to feel guilty for being a man. I'm sick of being told what to think, value, and appreciate. I appreciate attractive women. :shrug:

JTalbotski
06-27-2003, 06:55 AM
How's this for changing the subject:

So many people mentioned the theme song when they saw my version of Mighty Mouse that I had to do this:


http://homepage.mac.com/talbotj/iMovieTheater13.html

Enjoy!

Jim

My Fault
06-27-2003, 06:57 AM
Bwahaha, that's great Jim!

Hookflash
06-27-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
How's this for changing the subject:

So many people mentioned the theme song when they saw my version of Mighty Mouse that I had to do this:


http://homepage.mac.com/talbotj/iMovieTheater13.html

Enjoy!

Jim

:applause: Ahhh... They just don't make 'em like they used to.

zandoria
06-27-2003, 03:09 PM
I like big boobs too! :beer:

hmmm, I like those little perky ones also... I guess I like 'em all--as long as they're NEKKID!:drool:

I must have been damaged by sneaking a look at my dads Playboys when I was a kid :rolleyes:

modernhorse
06-27-2003, 04:33 PM
heheh brings to mind Ray Stevens. "Are you Nekkid??"

Zaryin
06-27-2003, 07:12 PM
Hey Jim, that was great. You will know thta i like it when i say that I watched it all the way through -- and watched it again :)

JTalbotski
07-01-2003, 04:05 AM
Here's a new render of my African Queen character which incorporates many of the suggestions I received from you guys. I softened the shadows and worked on the thighs and calves by removing the straight edges and thinning and adding more muscle tone. I also added a small fill light to show the neck better against the ponytail hair. I shortened her calves as they were way too long. If the render seems softer, it's because I rendered it much smaller than the earlier version (which I shrunk down quite a bit). Those multi ray casting lights take a toll!

Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~talbotj/REVISED_POSTER.jpg

makings
07-01-2003, 12:37 PM
Hey all, working on my Foggy Morning piece, incorporated some feedback I had on it, latest version at:

Foggy Morning (http://www.kingscott.f9.co.uk/wip/foggymorning.jpg)

Comments appreciated...

BTW, Jim, love that Mighty Mouse and African Queen...

JoeW
07-01-2003, 06:36 PM
Looking really sweet, Jim - just beautiful.

The only thing that catches my eye is that her left breast looks a little "squarish" at the bottom inside corner - not sure if this is lighting or the mesh itself.

The new hilight helps with her neck a lot, and the shoulders look much better. I especially like the curves you added - and the bulge of the head of the quadricep on the inside of the left knee is really nice.

Once again, criticism aside, it's a beautiful image :)

JoeW

JTalbotski
07-02-2003, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by JoeW
Looking really sweet, Jim - just beautiful.

The only thing that catches my eye is that her left breast looks a little "squarish" at the bottom inside corner - not sure if this is lighting or the mesh itself.


Thanks, Joe!

You're right, I knew the squarish area was there, but I didn't want to see it, so I didn't acknowledge it's existence. Thanks for holding me accountable. :)

Jim

SouthernLaw
07-02-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by JTalbotski
[B]Here's a new render of my African Queen character which incorporates many of the suggestions I received from you guys. I softened the shadows and worked on the thighs and calves by removing the straight edges and thinning and adding more muscle tone. I also added a small fill light to show the neck better against the ponytail hair. I shortened her calves as they were way too long. If the render seems softer, it's because I rendered it much smaller than the earlier version (which I shrunk down quite a bit). Those multi ray casting lights take a toll!


Awesome work Jim! From the waist down she's practically perfect... the shadow on the left shin might still be a bit too harsh though.

I do have a few crits for you though :D

The first thing I noticed is the super-even skin tone. Add some more subtle variation... like lightening the areas that wouldn't be exposed to the sun so much.

Next... is it just the lighting, or is her collar bone missing?

And finally... Take the shine off of the taller pot. It's the brightest part of the image and my eye keeps drifting towards it instead of looking at the figure.

Keep it up!

J

JTalbotski
07-02-2003, 03:38 PM
makings: Thanks, Mike!

SouthernLaw: Thanks, J ! Good suggestions, especially about the collarbone. Have to get better at rigging, I guess. They were there but seemed to dissappear when I moved the arms down in the pose.

Her skin tone is just a group with a surface color right now and a slight bump map (hence the distant view). :) If I find some free time I'll try to work up better textures.

Thanks guys,
Jim

rcory
07-08-2003, 07:13 PM
I am starting to add some maps to this character-

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/forestberserker25.jpg

I tried layering 3 different bump maps on the same area of skin but it did not seem to work. I finally combined all three in photo shop and re-applied them as one. My question is, is there a way to layer bump maps on a model? I had one with large area bumps, one with large area dents and one with the little snake like creases. I wanted to be able to control each of the maps independently, but I don't know how to do it. Oh yes, I'm using 8.5.

Thanks for any suggestions..

JoeW
07-08-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by rcory
I am starting to add some maps to this character-

http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/forestberserker25.jpg

I tried layering 3 different bump maps on the same area of skin but it did not seem to work. I finally combined all three in photo shop and re-applied them as one. My question is, is there a way to layer bump maps on a model? I had one with large area bumps, one with large area dents and one with the little snake like creases. I wanted to be able to control each of the maps independently, but I don't know how to do it. Oh yes, I'm using 8.5.

Thanks for any suggestions..

Hmmm - you should be able to just layer the maps over each other, then control the bump intensity under the Decal>Image properties. If you're trying to control where the bumps go on the model, you *can* use alpha channels to control where the individual maps are applied.... maybe I'm not understanding the problem?

Also, you might play with using materials to generate a "base" bump and then add maps over the top of those in the areas where you need more specific detail. (remember to check the "bump" box under the shortcut to the material that's under the group on the model).

One thing to keep in mind is that setting the bump value to 100% is rarely enough. I usually end up with settings in the 250-500 range, and sometimes much higher.

JoeW

rcory
07-09-2003, 12:42 AM
It just seemed the last one I applied seem to negate the ones under it. Maybe I should try som higher values like you say...

kikiriki
07-09-2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by rcory
http://home.alltel.net/rccollins/forestberserker25.jpg
I tried layering 3 different bump maps on the same area of skin but it did not seem to work.

When you planning to add many bump map layers with different bump values, you must keep in mind that 50% gray (or G=128) means “no bump” for A:M. Values from 0-128 (or dark tones from black to 50% gray) will be Convex on a surface and values from 128-255 (or bright tones from 50%gray to white) will be Concave.

That means that base background colour for your skin bump map must be exactly 50% gray and NOT WHITE(!) and that you will have to draw your textures (pores, wrinkles etc...) on that 50% gray colour and not on white colour.

The same goes if you use RGB image instead of Grayscale. In that case you will have to use R=128, B=128, G=128 colour as base colour.

Nice model btw :-)

Regards

Dusan

rcory
07-09-2003, 03:55 AM
Thanks Dusan,

That's where I messed up. The last map was black on a white bkgrnd. It just removed the bumps from the others....duh. I shoulda known that...

Thanks again

rcory
07-10-2003, 01:04 PM
Okay, I finally got to the root of the problem. It seems one bump map per container was the only way to add multiple bump maps. When I had all three in one container they would all show up when I did the progressive ray trace preview. The regular render would only show the top one in the list. So I added them each to it's own decal and it worked.

Anyhow, this is a little closer to what I wanted...

JoeW
07-10-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by rcory
Okay, I finally got to the root of the problem. It seems one bump map per container was the only way to add multiple bump maps. When I had all three in one container they would all show up when I did the progressive ray trace preview. The regular render would only show the top one in the list. So I added them each to it's own decal and it worked.

Anyhow, this is a little closer to what I wanted...

Lookin' good Cory. Now, you might think about adding some specular intensity maps in combination with diffuse maps (you can use the same maps, just add them to the image list under the decal and change the type adn intensity). This will help bring out the details of the skin and give more visual interest to the surface.

BTW - It sounds like that bump map problem (not being able to use multiple bump maps under one decal) could be a bug - but I remember now that you're using 8.5 - so I guess it's good that you found a work-around....

Keep posting progress :)

JoeW

rcory
07-11-2003, 01:09 PM
Thanks JoeW, Specular maps are next I guess. Once I figure out what I want to shine...

Thanks Dusan, I was concentrating so much on the map advice, I missed the compliment at the bottom...I'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

You've been a great help...

Zaryin
07-11-2003, 04:42 PM
I'm loving that character so far. I agree some good spec maps will bring out the skin even more. Great.

Shazam3D
07-16-2003, 02:57 AM
Hi all:

I´m working in my first semi realistic head, my first "cartoon" character and my first car.

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/damicelaWIP.jpg

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/ElvisWIP.jpg

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/VwWIP.jpg


Comments appreciated...

JM

nerrazzi
07-16-2003, 07:42 PM
A new character I'm working on, needs some decal work I know...

My Fault
07-16-2003, 08:15 PM
Love the decal work! Would like to see other views.

One thing that stands out, which may be a stylistic choice on your part, is the cut off skull. If your going for more photoreal, he should have more forehead and back of the head.

Keep up the great work!

rcory
07-16-2003, 11:25 PM
Very nice! Are these your first 3d works or first A:M works?
A couple of comments, not that I am a master artist or anything but, on the female head it seems the the face is a little flat. I'd put a little more convex feel to it. THe lips seem a little wide. I think I remember from somewhere, that you determine the width of the mouth by drawing a line from the bridge of the nose between the eyes, through the outside of each nostril. THe position of the cheeks and mouth was determined by drawing an equilateral triangle from the outside of the eyes pointing down to the chin. Then again some people measure with the width of the eyes, I think the mouth was three eyes down and one across, or something like that. Maybe someone else can expand on that.

Nice Elvis as well. Looks a bit like he's got some Jay Leno in him too.

Originally posted by Shazam3D
Hi all:

I´m working in my first semi realistic head, my first "cartoon" character and my first car.

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/damicelaWIP.jpg

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/ElvisWIP.jpg

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/shazam3d/VwWIP.jpg


Comments appreciated...

JM :) :)

rcory
07-16-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by nerrazzi
A new character I'm working on, needs some decal work I know...

I love the decals as well. I agree with MyFault, the top of the skull does seem a little small. More forehead, but not brow, mind you. Or may be the ears are too far back, that might make he back of the head seem small.

Overall he's looking good though.

Shazam3D
07-19-2003, 01:41 PM
Thanks, rcory!

These are mi first A:M works, I´m a newbie in the hash's splines world. I'm working in a local TV station (in Las Palmas - Spain) in postproduction and animation (3dmax, Photoshop and After Effects) but now its my first serious experience with character animation and organic modeling.

You're right. Good tip for keep the proportions.
I appreciate your suggestions.

Thanks again.

JM.


Originally posted by rcory

Very nice! Are these your first 3d works or first A:M works?
A couple of comments, not that I am a master artist or anything but, on the female head it seems the the face is a little flat. I'd put a little more convex feel to it. THe lips seem a little wide. I think I remember from somewhere, that you determine the width of the mouth by drawing a line from the bridge of the nose between the eyes, through the outside of each nostril. THe position of the cheeks and mouth was determined by drawing an equilateral triangle from the outside of the eyes pointing down to the chin. Then again some people measure with the width of the eyes, I think the mouth was three eyes down and one across, or something like that. Maybe someone else can expand on that.

Nice Elvis as well. Looks a bit like he's got some Jay Leno in him too.

starving4rtist
08-07-2003, 01:56 AM
Hey you guys....this is my first work up at CGTalk. It's just a little robot for an animation I'm going to do. I tried to keep the detail down so I could concentrate on animation.

http://www.murc13.homestead.com/files/robo4.jpg
http://www.murc13.homestead.com/files/robo5.jpg


Comments?

Wegg
08-07-2003, 04:38 AM
He looks like a fun little dude.

Good work.

starving4rtist
08-08-2003, 02:11 AM
Thanks!

Here he is with one of the props for the short:
http://murc13.homestead.com/files/robo6.jpg

GizmoMkI
08-13-2003, 12:50 AM
Hello, all. This is about the fourth redesign of a spaceship intended for the lead character in a hobbyist project I'm doing. It's supposed to be a small freighter or tugboat, with the crew habitable areas mounted on top of a single engine. The model was built in AM2000 8.5L. I started with lathed and extruded shapes, and began building up from there.

I want to increase the surface detail by adding additional pieces and perhaps cutting into the hull to reveal internal components. The windows are extruded rectangles with ambience and glow effects. I may change them to actual cutouts and put small sets in there.

Adding detail to the straight sections should be easy, but I'm a bit worried how I'm going to do it with the curved sections.

The hull texture was done in PaintShopPro7 and is wrapped around the various parts, perhaps it should be a decal.

The ship will be getting a lot of screen time, so I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have.
http://hornydevil.comicbabecentral.com/sqfreighter.jpg

Hookflash
08-13-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by GizmoMkI

The hull texture was done in PaintShopPro7 and is wrapped around the various parts, perhaps it should be a decal.


Could you explain this process? A:M texturing gives me a headache;). Oh, and btw, nice pic:).

Dearmad
08-13-2003, 01:37 AM
If it was getting a lot of screen time in my hobbyist production, I would have modeled some of the details into it rather than textured it as you did.

Windows: Which windows? I see typical random spaceship doodads, and a dome on top and a blue light on the back that might be a window. I guess for me the details are ambiguous.

This'll strike you as odd, but: which way is forward? I could see the yellow thing either as a weapon or engine, and same for the red and two white protrusions on the other side.

The join between the bridge piece(s) and the hull seems rather rushed to me- something needs to be there or explain the seam.

For me the overall hull shape is much more pleasent than the bridge portion (the above the hull parts). The hull is nice and curved in lines and then the rectangular bit on top of it sort of ruins the "look" for me.

Keep going, despite my crits. Nothing against your effort and abilities, just suggestions worth what ya paid for 'em.

GizmoMkI
08-13-2003, 03:20 AM
Thanks to you both.

Hookflash -- I loaded a hand-painted image, then selected one of the model groups. A right-click gives a drop-down menu and it was assigned as New Image. It tiles the image to fit each individual patch of the group, and can result in some really bad repeating patterns. It's not as precise as applying a decal over a model or group. I generally use at as a quick and dirty method to get an idea of an overall model design.

Dearmad-- I'm considering the current texture to be temporary prior to cutting into the hull to add actual physical detail. The little blue light aft is indeed a window, there also two more on both port and starboard side although they're not visible in these angles. They probably should be larger, but I haven't determined the scale of the ship yet.

I forgot to mention which ends were fore and aft. The bow has the three lights which represent weapons arrays. The large yellow glow is the engine exhaust.

I'm not all that thrilled with the dome I have on the top as it's a little too Star Trek, so it's probably going to get replaced with either a more boxy bridge or some form of antenna array.

Regarding the design: In the backstory, the ship is a commercial freighter about 60 years old. The original superstructure is represented by the angular elements. A government contract resulted in a retrofit inside and out using parts and equipment from military surplus.

See my web page for earlier work on this project, which began when I got AM in late 2000 although the initial idea was 2 years earlier. There's also a short "preview" video available but the image is compressed a bit so resolution leaves something to be desired. The footage was pieced together from various tests of new models, techniques, and concepts. Almost everything seen in the video will be redesigned, including the humans, as they were modified from characters that came with the AM disk.

The small fighter was modified from an SR-71 model, but no artist is listed (Jeff Paries maybe?) Any time you see a moving starfield it's Carmen Rizzolo's Star Spheres prop. Everything else in the video is mine with the exception of a few textures.

It's a Tripod site, so downloading the video may knock the site off the air for a couple of hours afterwards, and you might have to endure some pop-ups but I usually don't see any.

Hookflash
08-25-2003, 05:27 AM
Here's a sword I'm working on. I'm going to add details & decals (runes on the blade, etc.). Any suggestions?

http://members.shaw.ca/hookflash/sword.jpg

Cosmics
08-25-2003, 10:21 AM
You know what, i like the design, its a bit sinister, and certainly unique . . . but i do have to wonder about the sword beholder's hand, those bat-wing-spikes could be a hazard to him/her.

maybe they could turn out a little more.

pequod
08-25-2003, 02:20 PM
Well, I've made the first tentative steps towards producing some finished animation for my Briar Rose project. Here's a measly 15 seconds worth:

www.hash.com/users/milos/entrance5.mov

This, in fact is my second totally re-animated attempt at this shot, the first was far too sedate.
I'm still in the process of deciding what type of lighting style to use. The volumetric and bloom effects were composited separately and don't necessarily make perfect sense, but hey! it's called artistic license.

Now, off to do some AM alpha OSX beta testing.

Stephen Millingen.

John Keates
08-25-2003, 03:01 PM
I like the design as well. The blood channel thing is modelled realy nicely. I would prefer it if the specular on the metal was white or at least less yellow. And maybe it should be a little sharper. I think it needs to be reflective also.

3DArtZ
08-25-2003, 03:15 PM
Stephen, that was really good!
I'm bummed that there wasn't more to watch.
Character animation look good throughtout the whole clip. No jerky or awkward movements.
Mike Fitz

John Keates
08-25-2003, 03:58 PM
Hey Pequod :wavey:

That thing is looking real sweet!!

I especially like the way that she finds her balance as she comes in and of course the way that her arm swings as she leans on the door is real good. Little touches like the timing of blinks and the way that she closes her eyes before sinking to the ground are done to perfection. Her arse is perfect too ;)
The tree in the background looks like a little homage to the Tak advert by avalanche. Did you use lagged constraints? It looks real nice. How did you get the shadows lokig so good? Are they raytaced? Are you going for the 16 passes?
It is a nice touch to have her head go through that volumetric like that too. Golly gosh, you have realy thought of everything havn't you!

I am in awe at this thing but I want to try and help you so I have looked it through about thirty times ith the finest combe that I could find and here are my thoughts:

The main thing for me is that the light on Briar doesn't change when the door is shut. It looks just right when the moon is shining on her but I would expect it to change when the door is closed. This would also add some nice atmosphere change.

Perhaps you could use a negative light to make the area behind the door go darker as it opens. You could even experiment with doing it with a relationship if you are feeling nerdy.

I wouldn't mind seeing that texture on her boots come back. It would fit with the highly textured brick-work that you seem to be settling for. I think that it looks good (allthough it is a lot of work I am sure).

At around the twenty fourth frame of second eight, her lovely thigh length boot moves a little too fast down her leg and catches the eye a bit.

At about the sixth frame after the twelve second mark there is a small jitter on her lovely thigh length boot.

It would maybe be better if, when she closes the door, her arm is straight (so that she is using the wieght of her body to close it rather than elbow grease). This would maybe add to the sense of exasperation and stuff but, oh, hang on... how would she end up leaning on the door? Maybe she slams it shut moving her body wieght sideways then stumbles, then flops forward onto the door.... Oh, I don't know.

This looks like front page material to me. You might want to put it on a non-AM part of the forum, I think that it would do well.

zandoria
08-25-2003, 04:19 PM
:bowdown:
Stephen, looks great! She really comes alive! I love the eyes darting and her quick movements.

modernhorse
08-25-2003, 04:27 PM
Very very nice work. Great motions and lighting. I love that sliver of light shining thru the wall. Very fine attention to detail.

If I was to look for something, and believe me I had to look hard, i think when she closes the door, her hand should be closer to the side of the door with the knob. She should be fighting gravity and she seems to close it too easily based on her current hand position. I dunno worth a look. Just a nitpick.

Again fine work!!

Dalemation
08-25-2003, 05:09 PM
WOW!!
Stephen that clip is just stunning! I love the character, set, lighting and the animation is perfect. Was the hair animated by hand? I remembered a previous clip of Briar Rose you posted that I was very impressed with so I couldn`t wait to download this one, and I was in awe. With a soundtrack it will be fantastic.

Btw, do you use Mike Fitz` cogs system for the joints or smartskin?

Dale.

pequod
08-25-2003, 07:27 PM
Okay, some good advice here and nice words of encouragement, cheers.

John,
Lets see, I rendered at 16x multi-pass, but it still didn't get rid of the texture shimmer. No lag constraints on the tree, although I considered it but felt it was quicker just to manually animate, especially as it's fairly simple and not very visible.
The main light (moon) behind her is raytraced, so I could make sure the shadow on the floor was accurate. There are also two strong side lights which are casting z-buffered shadows.
You are right, the lighting on her doesn't change significantly once the door is shut. I'll have to reduce the intensity of those two side lights at that point. If the negative lights are now working in AM, that's a handy use for them to darken the area behind the door.
She still has the same texture on her legs, it's just been lost in this particular lighting setup. The brick wall is infact a very simple texture map, I'm not striving for realism. The lighting is moody so that is perhaps giving the scene a more sumptuous look than would be normal.
I've noticed the glitches on the thigh boots, not sure how to solve it yet.
Lastly, the foreshortening on the arm as she closes the door, gives the impression that her arm is bent, it isn't. I might change the angle for that if it's not readable.

Doug,
I would have liked her hand closer to the door handle, but it just hasn't turn out that way, besides, I need her over to the left side of the door for the next shot ;)

Dale,
The hair is hand animated but the laces dangling from her cap have dynamics applied to them. Unfortunately for this particular render, the dynamics decided not to play and only show the feeblest amount of movement.:banghead: Fortunately, it's hardly noticeable.
By the time Mike's cog system had appeared on the scene I had already rigged her with fan bones and smartskin. I shall definitely look into the possibilities of employing 'cogs' next time round though.

Thanks William and Mike :)

Stephen Millingen.

Cosmics
08-25-2003, 09:40 PM
Stephen, I love it!!
She's so emotional and the whole scene is very magical.
I'm in aw.

Hookflash
08-25-2003, 10:29 PM
pequod: Wow! I love it. It's so encouraging to see stuff like this made in A:M:thumbsup:. Give us more!

JoeW
08-26-2003, 04:32 AM
Hey Stephen,

*Very*nice. Very, very nice - there is a charm in this piece that is lacking in so many other CG animations - I found myself wondering what she's running from - who or what is after her..... I really like the fact that you've chosen to stylize the "look" of the lighting - so my only *suggestion* in that regard would be to perhaps experiment with different light colors (slight) for internal and external lights to add a little separation... perhaps...

Here are a few nitpicks - the kinds of things you would hear from other Avalanchers if we were all sitting around watching this:

Did you intend to animate the spotlight on the door, or did you pull a "Bunker"? (a "Bunker", named for Jeff Bunker, is what we call it when you unintentinally animate something in a scene. Of course, now with the new "A" button, you can do a reverse Bunker and THINK you were animating a bunch of stuff - and find out that you weren't setting any keyframes at all.... but I digress...)

The door opening seems to precede what would be her impact - like it opens too soon - or it opens too quickly given her impact. You might try keeping it closed for another frame or two OR you might have her travel further into the room from that initial impact - there just seems to be a little of an imbalance there to me (my opinion, of course).

Upon that initial entry, it might give a little more life to have her feet slide a little - she's coming in pretty fast, and the floors are wooden - so one might expect a little sliding - and it would work well with the initial imbalance of the character.

I love that little off-balance action and the quick look around, BTW....

When she coils up to jump over to the wall, the anticipation is good - but she "twins" through that spin - you might try putting her right arm in a more "protective" pose - anticipating the impact - and bring up her left knee in flight (coil her up, and then uncoil her on impact). Also, the impact on the wall could use a little more secondary motion - she looks a little "floaty" right now - needs a bit more recovery from the impact (close the eyes and grimace for an instant before going to the "wary" expression).

When she leaps over to the close the door, have that leading foot slide a little. You have a little sliding as she slams the door, and that adds SO much to her sense of weight - I think that adding a little slipping around would really help (IMO of course).

I *love* the fact that you have her breathing!! BRAVO! and that final little "sigh" before she slides to the ground is great! Maybe add a little more bounce on impact - that cute little booty HAS to have more spring than it's currently exhibiting - not to mention other "soft bodies" - but I do understand that you are "stylizing" ;)

In regards to the "creeping boots" phenomenon, well, there's always muscle animation when all else fails....

Of course, these are all just nits. I *really* like this character, I love the moodiness and the stylization of the set and the lighting, and I think you've pulled off some *excellent* (and difficult) animation here. Whatever you decide to do, I, like many others here, would like to see more (no pressure, no pressure - LOL!)

JoeW

PS - I showed it to Jeff Bunker and he was impressed - which he almost never admits....

GizmoMkI
08-26-2003, 04:36 AM
Hookflash-- great looking sword. Maybe a leather wrap look would work on the handle.

Pequod-- Phenomenal work and really inspiring. Nice bit with the barrel too.

pequod
08-26-2003, 07:00 PM
Thanks Cosmic, Hookflash and GizmoMKI,

Thanks also Joe for taking the time to critique my piece. Being a one man band I rely on this sort of feedback or nitpicks.

The spot light on the door is infact a crude animated mask I added when compositing the clip in Commotion. I felt the corners weren't dark enough and liked that fairy-tale retro look it gave. At the beginning the mask does retreat to the edges quicker than the camera moves in, which probably contributes to the 'Bunker' effect.

I did initially try to get her sliding into the shot, I just couldn't make it look right especially from the front view.

You've spotted my deliberate attempt to keep Briar in the air longer as she bursts into the room, by opening the door earlier. Oh well, back to the drawing board. If I extend the length of her jump, she'll just get too big in the frame. Perhaps some niffty camera work is called for here.

I like the idea of her coiling up slightly as she spins in the air, that should really add some extra dynamism. Her impact against the wall, I have found difficult to make plausible, I'll try your suggestions.

When she leaps over to the close the door, have that leading foot slide a little.

Oh no! not more sliding ;)

Stephen.

Wegg
08-29-2003, 12:59 AM
http://www.eggington.net/Rat/RatWIP.jpg

Roger Eberhart
08-29-2003, 01:41 AM
Wegg,

You keeping this in AM? Or is destined for Messiah land? Cool concept drawing.

Grgeon
08-29-2003, 01:58 AM
Looks cool Wegg! Glad to see you using am again, I'll be joining you soon. My upgrade should be here today :)

George

Wegg
08-29-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
Wegg,

You keeping this in AM? Or is destined for Messiah land? Cool concept drawing.

It'll be in Messiah before it ever gets animated.

One my guys sketched it. . . so I can't really take credit for it. . .

Wycoff3d
08-29-2003, 02:29 AM
Nice use of splines! Nice work. But why didnt you use LW? Or Wings3d?? I thought those two apps were what you guys were using now? Great work!!

Wegg
08-29-2003, 02:39 AM
I really like AM's modeler for organic work. I could probably have also worked in wings but. . . Then I wouldn't be able to relate to you guys as much. ;)

<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"

Hookflash
08-29-2003, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Wegg
I really like AM's modeler for organic work. I could probably have also worked in wings but. . . Then I wouldn't be able to relate to you guys as much. ;)

<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"


<click> <click> "SAVE!"

Lol;). Just out of curiousity, why don't you animate him in A:M? Who knows, maybe you'd be pleasantly surprised at the change from 9.x to 10.x in terms of stability (or not).

Wycoff3d
08-29-2003, 04:15 AM
So your saying that with LW75 its best to use Messiah? That 7.5 sux for this? What about v8? Iread somewhere that newtek was trying to learn a thing or 2 from hash! :> lol.

rcory
08-29-2003, 04:28 AM
Peqoud,

Very, very, very, nice animating there. Aside from the lighting issues someone else pointed out, I thinks it's beautiful!

Can't wait to see more...

daft
08-29-2003, 01:55 PM
Hey Wegg! Do you have any tips on exporting from A:M to other apps. Say wings.
Do you just use 3d studio export and then clean up the mesh in Wings?

Wegg
08-29-2003, 05:53 PM
I was going to do a video tutorial on getting from AM to LW but I needed a nice cool model to work with. . .

Hence. . .

http://www.eggington.net/Rat/RatWIP2.jpg

Grgeon
08-29-2003, 05:56 PM
Looking good Wegg,
Any chance of seeing a wireframe model of the face?

Wegg
08-29-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Wycoff3d
So your saying that with LW75 its best to use Messiah? That 7.5 sux for this? What about v8? Iread somewhere that newtek was trying to learn a thing or 2 from hash! :> lol.

Oranges suck! I hate Oranges. All I eat is apples. apples apples apples all day. One time I had an orange and it just made me puke. There was this leathery bitter crap on the outside that tasted horrible! I have heard of people who eat both Apples and Oranges but they must be nuts. Why can't they make Oranges more like apples!?!

zandoria
08-29-2003, 06:02 PM
great modeling, as usual!

pequod
08-29-2003, 06:37 PM
I was going to do a video tutorial on getting from AM to LW but I needed a nice cool model to work with.

What ya mean, "I was going to do a video tutorial" Have you cooled off on that idea?
Nice model BTW.

ewdean
08-29-2003, 07:10 PM
I just finished a quick run through a bit I'm using for my demo reel. Check it out...


http://members.cox.net/edean6/scarface.wmv

Grgeon
08-29-2003, 08:46 PM
Oranges suck! I hate Oranges. All I eat is apples. apples apples apples all day. One time I had an orange and it just made me puke. There was this leathery bitter crap on the outside that tasted horrible! I have heard of people who eat both Apples and Oranges but they must be nuts. Why can't they make Oranges more like apples!?!

So are you saying the oranges are pc's ? :D

the leathery bitter crap on the outside bit is hilarous hehe...

Seriously though, that's a good analogy and great use of sarcasm. hehe.

George

Wegg
08-29-2003, 09:00 PM
Can someone with a fresh eye give me some feedback please. I'm not 100% happy with it but. . . i can't quite figure out where I'm stuffing up.

http://www.eggington.net/Rat/RatWIP3.jpg

Roger Eberhart
08-29-2003, 09:07 PM
Wegg,

There doesn't seem to be any indication of the ankle on the inside of the foot. Also, the forearm to upper arm connection seems a little insect-like. Maybe thicken it up a tiny bit.

Roger

John Keates
08-29-2003, 09:17 PM
It is hard to tell without knowing whether you are going to add hair to it. Here are my thoughts anyway (if they are worth anything):

The top part of the leg isn't big enough. It should come up to the top of the belly.

The bicep part of the arm looks quite thick compared to the forarm which is quite thin.

Maybe the neck needs bringing in a bit.

Other than that it looks great (particularly the head).


PS: Oh my God! I just gave William Eggington a crit!!

PPS: What do you think of all these fancy new modelling gadgets?

John Keates
08-29-2003, 09:24 PM
Hey Steven (Pequod),

Were you using multipass on Briar? The reson that I ask is that the motion blur looks abit hashtastic (sometimes the lower leg has no blur even though it is the fastest moving bit). Just wondering.

Wegg
08-29-2003, 09:25 PM
It is going to have fur in LW eventually.

I don't want to deviate too much from the character sketch. . .

http://www.eggington.net/Rat/RatSheet.jpg

I think I got the skinny/fat ratio down.

I'll fiddle with it a bit. . .

Oh the modeling tools are MUCH improved. I love being able to draw in splines where I think I need more resolution. And it doesn't hork up my curves like previous incarnations. It is crashing a lot though. 4 times in the last hour. :(

pequod
08-29-2003, 10:02 PM
John,

I applied the motion blur in post production, using 'Real smart motion blur' plugin. This was so I could apply exactly the same motion blur to renders that were not multipass and was using as additional compositing layers. I've just bought the plugin, so my settings haven't done justice to how good it really is.

As mentioned, the only problem I see with the Rat are his segmented elbows, but if according to the model sheets, hair will be partially covering them I guess it's not an issue.
The mouth and neck are a tiny bit reptilian, but again, with a fur covering and some expressions on his face I can't see anything wrong.

shaunf
09-01-2003, 02:21 AM
Hi people,

I'm working on a new project and I've designed one of the characters. I'm ready to start texturing, but before I do I'd be keen for any comments (critical or other) if people have a moment.

BTW, before people say the mouth is a tad wide :-), it's designed like this as it is based on a cuckoo chick, which have HUGE bright yellow mouths when they're young.

Cheers

Shaun

Obnomauk
09-01-2003, 06:35 AM
:thumbsup: that diaper is just darling!

real nice character design overall, looks like a decent mesh. look forward to seeing how you texture and animate it.

-David Rogers

Cosmics
09-01-2003, 07:35 AM
That's one lovable cuckoo :thumbsup:
maybe it could be fatter, unless if it's supposed to be somewhat starved.

shaunf
09-01-2003, 01:23 PM
Thanks David! I'll post an image when I've satisfactorily textured him.

Re: fat cuckoo, I originally had him looking fairly chunky but he looked like a stuffed chicken, so I thinned him up a bit, and it seems to suit his character better.

:-)

I've posted a side on view of character also if people want to have a look.

http://www.shaunfreeman.com/wip.htm

Shaun

Wegg
09-01-2003, 06:35 PM
I love the concept. And parts of it have been modeled well but the feet feel all wrong when I'm looking at it. I think bigger feet with thicker toes and knuckles would help a lot.

shaunf
09-01-2003, 09:56 PM
Aha!!! Thats whats been bugging me. I just couldn't put my finger on it. Chunk up the feet! Thanks for the suggestion Wegg!

ewdean
09-02-2003, 02:33 AM
a

rcory
09-02-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by shaunf
Aha!!! Thats whats been bugging me. I just couldn't put my finger on it. Chunk up the feet! Thanks for the suggestion Wegg!

Nice so far, but I would make the arms/hands more like feathers, kinda like the old classic cartoon duck characters....just my thought...They seem too human as compared the rest of the features. Pardon the messiness, but here is a quick example...

Hutch
09-05-2003, 03:30 PM
Here is what I have been working on for about a month. It is kind of my "learn everything by screwing it up a few times" project. Any criticisms, suggestions, etc. will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hutch
09-05-2003, 03:33 PM
...and here is a close-up of his face.

John Keates
09-05-2003, 09:51 PM
Looks Good.
Good proportion and anatomy. I like the idea of having wolves on his shoulders very much. Watch out though because it could be hard for him to bend his arms.

Wegg
09-06-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by pequod
What ya mean, "I was going to do a video tutorial" Have you cooled off on that idea?
Nice model BTW.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86620

Hookflash
09-07-2003, 07:27 AM
Here's an update of my sword, mangled by jpg;). Those are runes on the blade (they're kinda hard to see).

http://members.shaw.ca/hookflash/sword2.jpg