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keitai
03-25-2003, 02:32 PM
Hi there,

As a Noob i am here to ask your opinions and suggestions. I have read a lot of tutorials for start. The following file is an image i want to make 3d. It a cartoon like girl. I want to make it as simple as possible.

I will post my 3d thingie in a reply


Grtz
Keitai

keitai
03-25-2003, 02:38 PM
and here is the 3d thingie. Haven't got it textured or colored yet.

The only thing am i satisfied with are the eyes. In the end I want to give it a plastic doll liked texture and a simple animation.

btw how do i save a image with the wireframes

keitai
03-25-2003, 03:47 PM
redone the eyes, made them bigger and couldn't resist to add an nose. (see file)

Any tips, pointers

Apollux
03-25-2003, 04:11 PM
to save a render:

1.- set the picture size, quality, bla bla blan and then press RENDER

2.- Check the tipe of output that is set, for images use Targa or Jpeg.

3.- After the render is done (from #1) press F3, fill in the name for the file, confirm (press Enter twice) and you are done.


Now, about the model: It is amazing that this been your first test drive with the software got so close to the reference image. You have been doing 3D stuff before?

First improvement would be to use a higher level on the Sud-D setting. The one that you are using isn't enough to hide the poligons.

Second improvement, cut a hole in the mouth and create a cavity for it inside the head, don't leave as it is right now.

keitai
03-25-2003, 04:52 PM
Thnx Apollux,

It is indeed my first encounter with a 3d program and blender is free so...

a higher level on the Sud-D setting do you mean the subsurf->subdiv settings.

If i do then i don't see much improvement, i think i should move the outer vertices that make up the head. I used a uv-spere with 16-16 or should i subdivide? And what should the avergae Sub-D settings be?


2 The mouth is already cut out, but i haven't created the inner mesh yet (with a tongue and so). I will do that.

Grtz,
Keitai

Apollux
03-25-2003, 10:24 PM
Yes, I was taking about subsurf, but now that you say that the head is an UV Sphere you will need more than subsurf to get the mouth shape right.

Are you familiar with the so called vertex-by-vertex technique inside the edit mode? Basically you use the normal tools to get the basic shape you want (you are here so far), and then enter edit mode and do the fine details working directly with the vertex that make the mesh. (A lot of Ctrl+LMB and pressing the F key to create new faces and edges) It is tought but the work really pays off.

paradox
03-25-2003, 11:30 PM
Nice character. On your renders under the render buttons (F10)
are you increasing the OSA, I ususally use 16. That might help with the jaggies. Also after subsurfacing I ususally hit the smooth button and sometimes Alt N recalulate normals outside depending on the mesh. Another thing to keep in mind is try to make sure your mesh has little or no triangle polygons.
The plastic look you are looking for can be done by adjusting spec and hardness settings. Well done for your first steps in 3D, definitely a good design, keep at it.
Paradox

Apollux
03-26-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by paradox
Another thing to keep in mind is try to make sure your mesh has little or no triangle polygons.

That is highly over rated. Triangles (at least within Blender) aren't that bad... sometimes I create them on purpose.

The bad fame of triangles come from users of other so-called hi-end software where a 3 side poligon would behave sometimes umpredictable. Blender's subsurf algorit is quite predictable on it's results, you just need to keep in mind that when working with subsurfs you are working with the tension that any given face receives from it neighboors (I think that is who the thing work inside). The actual size of the poligon has very little to do with the result.


The plastic look you are looking for can be done by adjusting spec and hardness settings. Well done for your first steps in 3D, definitely a good design, keep at it.
Paradox

Quite funny, he wants plastic, we are all trying to get rid of it :drool:

keitai
03-26-2003, 08:20 AM
thnks for the feedback and info,

Apollux,

I gonna try the "vertex-by-vertex" technique. Just shift-D, G and F ;)

Paradox,
I haven't used alt-N so far (as a newbie i didn't even know of it's existence) gonna give it a try. But what are normals?

The mess, sorry mesh i use has indeed a couple of triangle polygon (8)

Are there any "must have" tools for a beginner? I read on the elysiun.com forum about a knife-tool, any experience with these tool?

I am using 2.26 btw

Gonna post my progression when i have the "polygon-look" hidden ;)

Grtz

theeth
03-26-2003, 11:19 AM
Normals are vectors that determines what side of you face is the exterior (that's the usual definition when talking about 3D graphic, for vectorial algebra, it has a completely different sense).

Martin

Apollux
03-26-2003, 04:17 PM
yeap, you can think of normal as marks on all the poligons that say wicht side of the face is pointing inward and wich side is pointing to the outside. Usually you don't care much about them (you well see lather), but they become very important when working with particles and/or subsurf.

About that subject there are 4 important buttons, all of them loceted in the edit buttons windows (F9)

1.- Double sided. if activated: When rendering an previewing, both sides of the face are draw. if deactivated, only the side with normals pointing to the cammera are draw.

2.- Draw Normals. Usually normals don't show when working on a mesh. So, if you want to see your normal activate that button.

3. NSize If you select to draw the normals, this control the size of the normals on screen. Note: Normals by themself don't have size, just a direction. This option is just to make the previsualization easier.

4. No V. Normal Flip. Remember when I told you that usually we don't care much about normals? Even the fact that only faces with the normals pointing toward the camera are rendered, by default Blender switch the normal directions so that the all face the camera at rendering time. That is only a temporal switch and once the rendering is done the normals go back to theyr former direction. This button is to prevent Blender for doind that change.

Alt+N and Ctrl+N are for turning the normals to the outside of the mesh. Shift+Ctrl+N turn the normal toward the inside of the mesh.

They both only work while in edit mode and with the desired faces selected.


Now, for basic tools, I particualary don't find any of them as escential. In fact, I only work with Blender's default tools and find myself very confortable with them. The knife tool is a big time saver if you master the vertex-by-vertex thing, otherwise ot may give you unwanted result (as far as I know you can't control the deep of the cut).

paradox
03-26-2003, 10:38 PM
Only one thing to add to Apollux's excellent answer. The reason for alt N ect to recalulate normals outside, is sometimes when you are working with a subsurface mesh and you hit smooth, it smooths your mesh but sometimes you get weird little indentions in the mesh and ugly artifacts. But when you select all vertices and recaluate normals outside it will often fix this and all will be smooth looking again.
Paradox

keitai
03-27-2003, 12:06 PM
thnks guys for the explainations, gonna work with it.

Meanwhile i tried to get rid of the polygon look. Don't think i succided enough. Should i redo the head? If so should i start with a uv-sphere with say 36 rings etc.

I also did a (simple) body and arms. Tell me what you think, please. And how should i connect the head with the body?

To-do
Color it: texturing/uv-mapping?
Animation: what's rigging?
background setting
......

Great tutorial link btw in one of the last posts.

Grtz,

paradox
03-27-2003, 08:04 PM
keitai, I see what you mean about the polygon look the kind of sharp edges around the lower part of the face. I'd like to see a side view too to get a better idea of the head. I like the hair and eyes and mouth. A 36 by 36 sphere might work better but there are some things you can do to try and fix it first. The first is proportional vertex editing (also known as magnet). There is a button shaped like a grid push this. This will allow you to select an area like the sharp edges then press + or - to controll the size of the area and adjust the whole thing by moving your mouse a little. Just experiment I gave a kind of simple explantion so let me know If I wasn't clear. Second, there is an autosmooth button that you can adust the angles that may also help, unfortunately I haven't used it much so maybe someone else more familiar with it can explain that way of fixing it.

By the way I really like your design and thing it is improving nicely.
Keep it up.
Paradox

theeth
03-28-2003, 03:13 AM
About the magnet (also known as PET: Proportional Editing Tool), the hotkeys are:

Okey (switch magnet On/Off)
Shift-Okey (toggle the falloff mode between sharp and smooth)
Mouse wheel when moving vertice to change the area of effect (version >=2.26 only)

Martin

keitai
03-28-2003, 02:44 PM
Hi guys ,

Thnks again for all the suggestions ( as i am writing this i am trying the PE-tool, the results aren't that promising though). Couldn't resist texturing/coloring/uv-mapping, after reading a tutorial about it.

Here again you can see the polygons, gonna PET ;)

Gonna post a side view as well. BTW how can you save a image with wireframes over it in blender?

phlipping
04-04-2003, 01:07 PM
There's a button under materials labelled "wire" which will render a wireframe
If by "with wireframes over it" you mean both the model and the wireframe, you need to make a copy of the model (Shift-D) and make it wireframed

Apollux
04-04-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by keitai
BTW how can you save a image with wireframes over it in blender?

Go to the Edit buttons, seletc your mesh. Activate the oction 'Wire' (the full name should be Draw Extra Wire).

Add some light source and a cammera, just like for a normal render.

Press Shit+Z to draw the screen in Shaded mode.

Press RENDER for a normal render. When it is done close the render window. (For some strange reason you need to do a normal render before this trick can work)

And then look for a tinny button with the same icon than the Display Buttons (the purple sunrise) Press It!!!!

:drool:

There is an easier way to do it (besides taking a screen capture), but I just can't remeber it right now.

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