Advice needed on my first matte painting attempt

[JJASSO]

welcome ! nice start, you have a good idea of depth, composition and focal point, here are some suggestions
everything looks too flat, try to experiment with lighting so you can get some nice shadows and highlights that let you draw perfectly the shape and depth of elements
the background right hill looks too perfect in its circle edge try to break that perfect geometrical shape it looks more natural in your first sketch
be careful when painting or cloning photo elements texture like in the tree, it looks too repetitive and flat as well, I would suggest that you take a camera and go out and take some photos
looking forward to see the improvement

[JB]

Thanks Jaime, very helpful input, I'll work on the lighting and try to bring out the depth. And I'll fix the curved hill. It's funny how you sometimes don't notice things until someone points them out to you :D

I forgot to mention that I'm not happy at all with the tree. I'm looking for better reference.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Funny you are having problems with the tree I too was banging my head of the table in frustration till I realised somthing. I was too busy trying to cut out individual trees for my painting. I googled bonsai tree, most photos of bonsai trees are photographed against a plain background. Why is this important? well they are designed to be beautiful have great texture and have real weight. A plain background is far easier to remove than other trees. The foliage is the only problem a paintover or photo parts easily remedies that. Plus with the free transform tool there are no real obvious perspective issues.

Welcome to matte/emvironment painting hope my little tip helps. PS love the composition, listen to Jaime he is really good at this artform plus he explains it really well.

Look forward to seeing the WIP on this one.

Cheers Rich

[JB]

Thanks Rich!

Bonsai trees is a great idea, the beautiful shapes should be very inspirational as well.

[JB]

Here's an update. Trying to give it more depth. I changed the tree, part photo, part Vue.

http://www.dobiedog.com/images/ruin_concept3.jpg

[Rockhoppermedia]

Every one does waterfalls, they all do the same thing have it coming from no where, waterfalls are attractive because the eye enjoys watching it go down steps (just like watching a slinky going down the stairs). You dont have a source and stairs on the left hand waterfall that is what is making me feel uncomfortable. you need a beginning middle and end to describr the story of the waterfall.

The tree looks fantastic it is certainly coming together.

Look forward to seeing more

Rich

if that was a ancient pillar the water would have eroded the rock to make a channel the deeper it is the more ancient it is. The water coming over looks like a flash flood rather than beeing there forever.

[JB]

Thanks Rich. I don't quite understand what you are trying to say about the waterfall, I think you don't like it?

Not sure if I will keep it or not, I'm just trying different looks. This is a lot of fun :)

[Suirebit]

JB I think your main issues now are the perspective differences (back mountain, foreground cliff) and balance of composition; slow down, don't throw yourself to detail yet...try sketching the shapes and find a good balance that leads they eye naturaly...

[Rockhoppermedia]

Suirebit is right, i am just concerned that the waterfall appears from nowhere and is a torrent which is does not seem right. In between the pillars do a deep groove/trench that would establish that it is a waterfall not a watershed from a flood. No i do not like the water fall at the moment but i will if you work at it.

If you do as i said it will add substance and weight to your rock face. Do not go into fine detail yet as Suirebit suggested you need to establish the architecture of the rock face / hill /pillars for the elemental effects to REACT to. it looks like a collection of elements but if you work on the shape and form you will end up dancing round the room whooping because it feels right. At the moment be honest with yourself does it feel right.

Yes i am being tough on you because i know you can pull this off beautifully.

Your mate

Rich.

[JB]

JB I think your main issues now are the perspective differences (back mountain, foreground cliff) and balance of composition; slow down, don't throw yourself to detail yet...try sketching the shapes and find a good balance that leads they eye naturaly...


Can you explain how the composition is out of balance?

[Suirebit]

there's no compositonal depth - you have now like 3 planes in there: the foreground cliff, the middle mountain and the background; Also the positives versus negatives and sky versus land is not right. It gives it a box feeling, like the scene is much larger and you croped it ;)

You have to tell a story with the image how each element ties together with the other, why is it there, what does it do...
I would go for a more cinematic ratio, or if you wanna keep the current ratio, I would cut a little from the edge of the mountain so more sky can be seen, and add more elements in between foreground and midground, also a smoother transition towards the focal point and a more dramatic perspective

[Rockhoppermedia]

how about changing the camera pov from looking up to looking down, think of the converging 1 point perspective it would be awesome and really sell your idea.

Rich.

[Suirebit]

that might be a good idea too Rich, but down-top (as it is now) can work as well...with a more dramatic perspetcive and angle.

[Rockhoppermedia]

yea but down to up there is nothing really selling the perspective which is giving it that flat plane look. This is promising

regards rich

[JB]

I guess I'll try something else.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Suirebit and I want you to finish this so please stay with this matte, however you decide to do it so stick with it.

Dont give up you can only eat a elephant one bite at a time

Rich

[Suirebit]

Man don't give up...we're just trying to help you...you're at the begining of the image right now so you can fix almost everything....the image is a challege, and that's good ;)
doodle more, sketch up...I do like 4-5 versions of concept sketch before I decide to move on...I move around elements try to get the best feel out of it...

[JB]

I'm going "Back to the drawing board" as they say :)

Thanks for all the input, I'll try and take all that into the next step.

[Rockhoppermedia]

Mr JB what have you been up to?

i would like to see what you are working on, my matte failed in its task as well so I have gone back to the drawing board.

Regards

Rich

[JB]

I wouldn't use the word "failed" :D

I am reworking the composition. My free time evaporated, though I hope to begin working on it soon.
:)

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