quick beginner question....

[toastyovens]

Cloning is bad. Being a hack is soooo uncool. You do have a Wacom right? If you don't. GET ONE. At LEAST an Intuos 3. Any other cheaper tablets are crap. Then learn to draw. By doing so you can be a tree hugger by not using paper. (But you use a lot of energy by using the computer and it's components will likely give off harmful chemicals that pollute the water table once it's disposed so by being a digital artist you are condemned to destroy the world.

You live in France so more than likely your electricity derives from nuclear power plant, which it's by product will take millions of years to decay once decommisssioned - they place them in the ground under several foot of concrete in a giant container.

With that being said I suggest do a search in google for Ron Lemen tutorials. That should give you a head start.

Me I'm too busy with my own work to search for you. Use the power of google. USE YOUR ATOMIC POWERED COMPUTER! And everytime you start your computer to make your digital art I suggest you yell :
"ATOMIC COMPUTER TO POWER!!" That would really boost your confidence and you will be a great artist in no time.

[FarshadRoknipour]

But then I read advanced photoshop magazine and same with the corel painter magazine and they have a lot of exercises that take existing images and they either copy and paste certain images from the reference images into their document, etc etc...They also use the clone tool to make certain images look like they are painted...So why do they show that? I have a wacom but its the Graphire 3 I think its called...

[ThePatches]

Just cloning and tracing images is ot goign to make you a better artist.

Drawing your "bad" drawings over and over and over and not giving up right away WILL make you a better artist. Every good artist was a beginner at one point and thought all their stuff sucked. And it probably did. But they kept at it and got better over time.

It takes many bad drawings to eventually get a good one.

Hacking your way through your illustrations by stealing things from photos is not good. Cloning is not referencing, it's cheating. I know it's terribly cliche, but the only way to get better at art is to pracctice and study a lot. Drawing digitally is not easier or harder than drawing tradiationally. If you do not have the skills to create something on paper, you're not going to have the skills to create somethign on the computer. Having the tools to create illustrations does not mean you will be magically good at it overnight. You wouldn't look at a pentil and expect it to jump up and start creating FOR you would you? Because that's what it sounds like you are expecting from Painter. And it won't happen.

Practice makes all the difference in the world. Draw from things around you. Take the photos you are using as cloning sources and try to copy them without cloning and tracing. You'd be surprised by how much you can learn by doig this over and over.

Oh, and they will suck. Your first drawings always will. But noone is awesome overnight. ;) Don't worry about the finished result and more about the process and what you are learning while creating that "bad" drawing.

But then I read advanced photoshop magazine and same with the corel painter magazine and they have a lot of exercises that take existing images and they either copy and paste certain images from the reference images into their document, etc etc...They also use the clone tool to make certain images look like they are painted...So why do they show that? I have a wacom but its the Graphire 3 I think its called...

It really depends on wha tyou are tryig to do. It sounds like you want to create original images from scratch in Painter. If you want to do that...learn to draw. Plain and simple.

If you just want to make your own photographs or stock photographs to look like paintings, that's a whole other can of beans. Some photogrpahers like to make their photos look like paintings...some designers and illustrators need that "painted" look fast and on a budget...there's many reasons to clone and copy. If you want to go this route, I'd suggest taking your own photos or buying stock. Otherwise you can get into a mess of trouble.

But if you want to draw...this is not the way to go IMHO.

[toastyovens]

But then I read advanced photoshop magazine and same with the corel painter magazine and they have a lot of exercises that take existing images and they either copy and paste certain images from the reference images into their document, etc etc...They also use the clone tool to make certain images look like they are painted...So why do they show that? I have a wacom but its the Graphire 3 I think its called...


That's beacuse almost all of these 'professional instructors' don't know a goddamned thing about how to draw properly without tracing or too lazy to learn it. I wonder how did they get their jobs... There are TONS very good artists out there. If it was me I'd be ashamed. Sheesh.

Also do you really think Corel or Adobe want to make this look as hard as the way you are SUPPOSED to learn drawing? Do you think they should print a statement on their product boxes "talent are not included" or "drawing skills required"? It takes YEARS to be good at drawing and to be trained to be "creative". Do you really think they want to scare away all the noobs? Do you really think they want to tell you by learning the digital way you are still subject to the technicalities and frustrations of computers and you will be tearing your hair out at some point? NO WAY. It's all about money.

I think by promoting the wrong way to learn digital drawing and painting and making the 'drawing aids' of the digital world as a crutch WILL make you a mediocre artist.
But hey if it comes to money, steering away noobs from making the correct and rewarding way of learning digital art and wasting one's energy, time and effort to produce 'digital fart' is better than telling them 'you have to work hard to be at least good' if it will make their pocket book bigger...

By the way a very good post ThePatches.

[tomt]

Farshad,

I have to agree with both ThePatches and Toastyovens. Painter nor any other graphics program will make you an artist. You can have fun though making pretty pictures cloning and modifying photos and artwork. Seems like a waste though, of your time and the money to to afford the programs.

If you don't have any formal training, and want to be a real artist or at least a decent amateur, make the heavy investment in a notebook and a pencil, if you feel very flush, cash wise, maybe an eraser. Carry it with you where ever you go and draw what you see. Don't try to get too detailed, just try to get the basic forms and shapes. As you get more experienced, try refining your images. Take it in small easy steps.

Basic courses in school are helpful too, but more than anything, it's the doing that counts. Keep at it, if you really want it, you can be an artist. Of course talent helps, but more than anything, it's practice that makes the artist.

The fact that you're posting here and observing the folks in this group shows you have the interest. Hard work and practice will take care of the rest.

[FarshadRoknipour]

Thanks a lot guys! From those few replies, I can tell these forums is full of intelligent people. Think I'll stick around. :)

Now I am 24 years old and going on my second year in college for game design/art. Wondering if I have the ambition and dedication, do you think its too late for me? Should I even not try, or am I being a little negative...Be honest guys! :)

This frenchy can take it :)

[ThePatches]

Thanks a lot guys! From those few replies, I can tell these forums is full of intelligent people. Think I'll stick around. :)

Now I am 24 years old and going on my second year in college for game design/art. Wondering if I have the ambition and dedication, do you think its too late for me? Should I even not try, or am I being a little negative...Be honest guys! :)

This frenchy can take it :)

IUt's never to late to learn!! ::cliche cliche:: But seriously. It's never to late to learn anything. Art included. There's sooo many wonderfully talanted artists on this site and in the world who didn't start until their 30's, 40's 50's and later and are still wonderful anyway. Believe me man, you're an early bird. ;)

[Jinbrown]

It's never too late!

I've had several careers in my life, all but one (stay-at-home mother of two children both born before I was 24, and part time student) starting well after I'd passed your age and was in my mid 30's. That career lasted for 28 years during which time another was added to the mix around the 22 year point. Yet another began following that 28 years.

I expect something new will come along as long as I can walk, talk, see, and think.

As I said earlier, learning is a great adventure and you have many years ahead of you to learn and enjoy the learning as you make progress.

We're never finished learning, so get used to that idea and your life will be so much more rich and enjoyable.


You can do it!

[FarshadRoknipour]

So its not too late even if i wanted to do something lets say in the game industry...I am not oblivious, i know im not going to get a good position, but anything to get foot in the door, like tester...junior interface design etc...

Dont get me wrong, i like doing art for anything, especially for advertising etc...but games has always been a dream...

[eclipse115]

It's never too late . . . even for the game industry. I've seen many artists go from average crappy art to top ranking pieces in a little over a year, but they worked hard at it.

The best thing is to draw . . . a LOT . . . like every day . . . any spare time you can get . . .and study many different artists.

I started by drawing other peoples' art to learn the basics. This is different from straight cloning because you are still teaching your hand how to move the way you want to. I never called any of the work I did art in those days and eventually I developed my own style.

I don't really think becoming a tester is the best way into the games industry. The first thing to do is to learn how the game industry really works and see it for what it is . . . a business. All game companies despite their cool jobs run just like any other business. Even if you can't get into the games industry straight out of school any design job will help build your portfolio and credibility when you do apply and by then your artistic skills should have improved.

It might even be easier to work for a few online (aka flash) games companies to build your resume and skills while still earning a living.

I already have my way into the games industry and if you'd like a little insight on how everything works please feel free to ask.

Good luck and just keep practicing. :thumbsup:

[FarshadRoknipour]

Eclipse, if you can please pm me some information I would really appreciate it! I am not ignorant and know the game industry requires sometimes 16 hour days and 6 days a week of work and I am fine with that. I have done some research but always willing to learn from intelligent peers. :) Please PM me, and thank you!

[eclipse115]

LOL . . . I can tell you aren't ignorant . . . and I'll send you a PM when I get home tonight.

You may already know most of the things I can tell you but the majority of people (excluding yourself) have no clue and think you can become a game maker and get paid lots of money just by being an avid fan ;)

[FarshadRoknipour]

I go to school with idiots who think they are going to graduate and become a lead designer and just tell everyone what to do. It bugs me, but I have learned to ignore it. All they do is talk talk talk, and they don't sit down and learn anything. A lot of students are in there third year and still can't even write a proper GameDoc etc...lol but thats with every school...Gotta put up with it. lol

I have even heard certain students say that they are going to graduate and start there own studio. Do they not realize that the Dev kits and licensing for engines can run anywhere from $500,000 - $1,000,000 dollars? Just for engine and dev kit....I really wish it was that easy :(

Think its near impossible to get a job in the game industry Eclipse? Be honest hehe :)

Thanks Eclipse, do you by any chance have Xfire? If so, I am neverlive on there.

[eclipse115]

No I don't think it's hard to get into the industry. In fact I think it's easier than people realize.

One- Starting off with a realistic expectation of your starting position gives you a leg up over your "competitors"(and I use the term loosely).

Two- being professional and acting like a person with commmon sense will give you another leg up on your "competitors" (again I use the term loosely).

Three- Developing good talent and finding a niche skill will help you too. Everyone wants to be a lead character artist (who wouldn't?) but by finding and honing a skill that is high in demand and very few people have will definitely get you in the door and will allow you to grow. Also being able to design for a growing demographic that is high on publishers' and developers' radar (i.e. girl gamers) will also help you stand out.

Since you're still in school your course of action now would be to develop your artistic abilities and your creative flow and to develop good relationships with people in the industry.

I don't have Xfire . . . only Xbox Live and even then I am rarely on.

I do have MSN, AIM, and Yahoo . . . they all say I'm away but if you just pm me . . . I'll respond shortly.

AIM- eclips115
Yahoo- eclipse115
MSN- eclipse115@yahoo.com

[FarshadRoknipour]

I also play on live every now and then...on 360 atleast. My name on Xbox Live is, prepare to have those weird eyes when you read this...lol...My name is Satans T0il3t

I would like to stay in touch with you, if you don't mind. You seem to know a lot about the game industry and thats hard to find, especially at my school. lol.

I will get aim shortly and I will message you. :)

What are you going for when it comes to the game industry? I met and networked with Ed Boon at last years E3, hope he remembers me when i walk in for a interview sometime after i graduate. lol

Also, do you think its possible to maybe get a entry level position within the industry, while im still attending school?

[eclipse115]

Ed Boon is a nice guy . . . very personable, I doubt he will remember you as he probably talked to thousands of people since then. :sad:

Right now I'm on the opposite side of the game makers . . . I review them. I have my own website for girl gamers that I have neglected to work on these past couple of months.

My goal now isn't to further my career in the games industry exactly but to further my career as an artist. I'd like to freelance and work on commisions for the game industry, comic industry, and cards industry.

In the meantime I continue my life as a web designer and use all my spare time developing my skills to achieve that.

Many of my contacts are with the PR people for the publishers and I rarely talk to the actual developers.

Look forward to chatting with you soon. Just message me no matter what my status says and I will answer most of the time. :D

[toastyovens]

tomt is right on. NOTHING beats live drawing/sketching. NOTHING.

Oh by the way, if you want to be a good artist, I suggest cutting down the video games or TV or better yet quit them altogether as the time better is better used in practicing your skills.The only thing that I use for entertainment right now is music and the outside world. I don't watch TV, play computer/video games AT ALL as all of this kind of entertainment drains you of energy, and time. It's better to get ideas from books/magazines the net and the world around you. But hey that's just my opinion... Good luck.

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