View Full Version : Strange Behavior (Illustration) Entry: Marcus Blättermann
06-27-2007, 01:02 PM
Marcus Blättermann is entered in the "Strange Behavior Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/strange_behavior/view_entries.php?challenger=12910)
Latest Update: Final Image: Final Image
06-27-2007, 01:57 PM
This is the first idea I came up with. Its one of these hunter-prey stories, where their relationship is flipped around. The pivot of the frogfish could probably be something that looks like a golden watch. I think I gotta make the whole thing a bit more complex, but I'm happy with the initial idea.
Also there is absolutely no design, nor a concept for anything like color or composition in this first draft. except the idea of using an extreme format for the illustration to give this scrolleffect when looking at it.
06-27-2007, 02:14 PM
This is a really great idea!
It's simple, and to the point. If you make the watch obvious but pretty, it's going to work really, really well.
I also dig that you're using a different format for the image than usual. The vertical scroll is really smart and pushes the ideas behind the image.
I can't wait to see the progression on this one!
06-27-2007, 03:06 PM
Welcome Marcus to the CG society and the challenge...
I really like your idea, can't wait to see it develop :) , good luck!
06-27-2007, 03:20 PM
Welcome to the Challenge... Good Luck and Keep it Odd!
06-27-2007, 03:26 PM
This is the first concept for the fishermen. I'm not quit sure if it would be better to let him be you like, so you feel pity when you see whats going to happening to him or may he be an old greedy fart who no one likes and who deserves to be eaten.
06-30-2007, 04:14 PM
This is the first Concept for the Frogfish/Anglerfish/Sea Devil, what ever...
The first thing I was thinking about was the silhouette. Its somekind of crossbreed of an Anglerfish, an Moray and a Great White. It should be a lot bigger than an normal anglerfish, so it can eat a whole human.
I'm also thinking about giving him some bioluminescencestuff along his body. But I think I will decide this in the Final Image on how it improves the whole look.
07-01-2007, 01:33 PM
A value/composition study
07-01-2007, 01:42 PM
I like scenes with much water or also under water.
Such scenes can be converted in many kinds.
The only problem, which I have with your concept: Now do not dare I any longer in the sea for swimming.
Go on and good luck to you.
07-01-2007, 01:46 PM
how could i miss your thread!
looks a little moby dick inspired. the fish-concept is cool!
i think this idea is a good one, i like http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12910/12910_1182952631_large.jpg
that one a bit more then the newer version. :)
good luck here, cheers
07-01-2007, 02:28 PM
Great simple concepts. I'd think maybe a more down turned angle might be a better view. Then we could see a little more of the old man.
07-01-2007, 03:15 PM
I made the image a bit broader to give it more room and changed the position of the fishermen to give you a better view at him. Added some details too and changed some things about the values.
07-01-2007, 05:55 PM
Gefällt mir echt gut soweit. Hat potenzial! Viel Erfolg beim Wettbewerb!
I Like it very much! Go for gold! ;)
07-02-2007, 03:39 AM
Ahhh too much good idea in this CG challenge ! You have a realy good idea ...and with good potancial! Great composition too! :thumbsup:
07-02-2007, 09:42 AM
yep! great IDEA!
07-02-2007, 10:48 AM
really nice sketch... looks promising :thumbsup:
07-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Good Luck, nice idea.. :)
07-04-2007, 02:17 PM
Some small changes, but I think that is what the image will look like. Next step: Color.
07-04-2007, 02:19 PM
Thanks to everyone for your comments. I tried to use some of your propositions.
07-04-2007, 05:20 PM
First Colorconcept. I'm quiet happy with the underwaterpart, but I think the over the Waterpart of the image is a bit boring.
07-04-2007, 05:22 PM
First Colorconcept. I'm quiet happy with the underwaterpart, but I think the over the Waterpart of the image is a bit boring.
sry. uploaded the wrong image at first
07-04-2007, 08:31 PM
I like the composition still bit to plane but since its all still in concept, no problem by that, I think it will be great to add some little character laughing at the old man maybe the fellow whom was about to be fished? This is because that idea pop over my head when I was seen it. But I thinks its clever and funny all ready
07-05-2007, 08:42 AM
cool start! i like it. maybe you could add some scars or tattoos on the fisherman. or a little shocked pet that sits on the boat end looking down and see the big fish coming up.
apart from that, i still have a little problem seeing the strange behaviour in this scene. can u explain that?
07-05-2007, 05:10 PM
I did some changes on this piece. I thought (and the comments confirmed this), that it was to difficult to understand what happened in the pic. So I decided to replace the golden watch by something that looks like the hand of a human drowning in the water, is in fact the end of pivot of the anglerfish which can will grab everyone trying to help to "drowning person" and drag it into the mouth of the fish.
I think this also explains better what is strange about the fish behavior. Its maybe a bit different from most interpretations in this challenge, because it is not really a weird behavior, but more an unexpected behavior(A fish imitating a drowning human to drag one underwater).
07-05-2007, 05:12 PM
l also changed the design of the fish. I think its a bit "stranger" now ;) And the fishermens reaction was changed to fit the new decoy ;)
fellah: I hope the notes to the last update answer your question.
07-05-2007, 07:02 PM
surely one of my fav concepts! :eek: everything plays along very well ...
somehow .. there is something missing .. but cant pin point wat it is .. :(
maybe ... the fish is too near ?? ... should it be more deeper? ...
just a doubt ... other than that ..
good luck for the challenge! :thumbsup:
Oh the hand decoy, of course!! It seems obvious now you've done it. Really nice and very clever concept, you should get a great final piece out of this :applause:
07-05-2007, 07:36 PM
With the hand now it is very cool! The idea is great. Much better than the watch.
07-05-2007, 08:20 PM
Yeee, indeed great,great idea & nice sketch!
Kind a agree with Neville & Alexalonso, that it just seem's that's something missing.Don't know what it is either,but maybe playing around with the reflects of light that passes through the water on the fish's skin or something like that could be cool also...
Looking forward to the next stages.
07-05-2007, 10:07 PM
hey, my one's got an angler fish in it too, nice job and good luck!
07-06-2007, 04:22 AM
I really like this idea. If it were me as the finsherman I think I would be reaching for the drowning person... maybe that is what is missing?
Just a thought... it is looking great how it is though.
07-06-2007, 04:46 AM
Great idea, keep it up! :bounce:
07-06-2007, 11:03 AM
Great idea! Evolution gone mad that one :) Really looking forward to seeing how you go with this :)
LOVE the hand idea! :thumbsup:
07-06-2007, 11:16 AM
nice gaint fish . what's your idea?:thumbsup:
07-06-2007, 02:22 PM
Nice idea. To enhance the storytelling side of it perhaps the fisherman could be moving towards the hand or leaning over the side of the boat whilst retaining his shocked expression. Perhaps he could reach out his hand towards the other or be unravelling a rope or picking up a rubber ring to throw in. This might help make it more obvious that the fisherman believes someone needs help from drowning and thus what an unfortunate result it will have! Goodluck with it!
07-06-2007, 03:00 PM
hand tongue moster fish. :)
07-06-2007, 03:54 PM
hehehe looking really nice! I love your sketches..the fisherman has a great character to him. great concept too!
07-06-2007, 03:55 PM
cant wait to see more!
awesome update... but i have to say i really dont dig the whole black background business. i hope you do something with it soon.
07-06-2007, 09:14 PM
this is just great Marcus..fantastic drawing and bold composition! love the colours, and superb creepy fish!
07-08-2007, 08:45 PM
I still wasn't happy with the design/pose of the fish and reworked it. I think its now more dynamic and the fish got also more mass.
07-08-2007, 08:59 PM
I just forget to put the changed fisher in the last update. So here is the real new image.
07-08-2007, 09:12 PM
ohh scray stuff...nice work. i'll keep visiting your thread
07-08-2007, 09:17 PM
nwiz25: thanks. I changed the fish, I think its more interesting now
m477: I hope so :D
Jakyl, musi: Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the hand, but I must say that the initial idea was not mine. a friend of me, who will also enter this challenge, came up with it
Okmer: I hope the new changes fixed some of the missingness in the pic
vitreous: may the best anglerfish win :D Good luck to you!
XraySpex, RebCapper: Great I idea. I tried it and i think it works fine!
Squishme: I will!
Phonix: What idea?
slav: I will decide the final colors when Im happy with the "drawing"
07-08-2007, 09:27 PM
very nice work. I will watch your topic.
07-08-2007, 10:29 PM
yep, better with the hand! the under-water-part looks very good!
i liked the bigger fish more, looked more evil and frightening.
hope you will find a way to give more depths (tiefe) to the part over the water.
best luck to you!
07-08-2007, 11:36 PM
Mr. Blättermann i'm so happy you saw my pic becaus even from before i entered i saw yours an liked it alot! I think too that the bigger fish (where you only see part of it ) is more threatening, and everyone can go imagine just how big it really is. Otherwise i find it perfect. the new position of the sailor is perfect for the storytelling and brings you closer to the snap moment which i think is good!
I love abyss fishes........:thumbsup:
Don't be a stranger! just behave strangely:D.
07-09-2007, 12:40 AM
Hi Marcus, love the hand simply scary and genius for the evil forces lol.
I like the way the tongue its swirling a nice movement concept. the old guy looks very nice as well!:thumbsup:
hope to see more updates really good work!
07-09-2007, 05:36 AM
Essen keep going, i will visit your topic regulary, seems to be interesting :D gogogo progress and take awards...
Concept is magnificent!
07-09-2007, 07:45 AM
Absolutly love the concept! Cant wait for the next update! :)
07-09-2007, 10:50 AM
ah yes now i see the story in the pic, much better since last time i had a look. maybe you can have his fishing pole visible somewhere, to make the viewer see he was fishing when he noticed the hand in the water.
07-09-2007, 11:05 AM
Very very clever one :) The detail of the hand *claps* Bravo! I liek the palette for the water. Good luck!
07-09-2007, 11:17 AM
The last picture pleased me better. With the large fish. Because it looked very many more threatening (for me).
07-09-2007, 11:42 AM
Hi Marcus, I like your idea and the way you're developing it. My suggestion is for the hand. Maybe you do it a little less human, a mixture of the fish "antenna" and a human hand.
Keep this good work up!
07-10-2007, 05:49 PM
Ok. Another try on the fish. I think I finally get the right direction. I made him more massive again, and his shape is now a bit piranha-like. I'm also pretty happy with his new eyes, who give him more personality I think.
07-10-2007, 06:05 PM
wow! :eek: i wouldnt want to venture out like that! :eek:
awesome fish! scary the same time! very very tricky! :eek:
love the details and yes the eyes .. very well done .. looking forward to more updates!
07-10-2007, 06:10 PM
Bravo! a very original idea I like it a lot!:thumbsup:
07-10-2007, 11:15 PM
Beautiful you got it!!
07-11-2007, 01:16 AM
One of the coolest image I sore here... love the composition and the color work but most of all I loved the idea of the image, it really makes me laugh ! I wish you good luck, not that you need it! ^^ And will surely look your topic frequently! Good job!
07-11-2007, 02:09 AM
like that last image very much
keep it up
07-11-2007, 02:40 PM
OMG... Loved the last update.. Incredible drawing but most off all, amazing consept..!!!
Good luck in the contest...
07-11-2007, 09:44 PM
I think this will be the final "lineart". Until now I worked only at 378x1000 Pixel, to keep me away from the details, so that I can better concentrate on the look of the image as whole.
Now I will scale up the image to a higher resolution and work out all the little details. But also add some things, like volume to the clouds.
07-11-2007, 09:50 PM
Thank you all for your nice comments! Im really think that I will finish this piece! (That cant be taken for granted for me :D)
07-12-2007, 06:27 PM
Marcus, this is looking awesome! I cant wait to see it progress :)
07-12-2007, 08:22 PM
i really like the new composition alot! the fish looks even more scary..really good, this is a great idea!
07-12-2007, 11:32 PM
the underwater part of the image is really well done! I love how you paint the effect of the light under the water...
I like a lot your idea and your designs, good luck with the challenge!
07-13-2007, 01:33 AM
The version with him standing, was good too... it created some sort of tension,
because the viewer doesn´t know how the fisherman is goin to react... in the
last version it´s more obvious what will happen next.
Great work so far, keep it up:thumbsup:
07-13-2007, 02:44 PM
Ahahahahahahah I love this concept !
07-15-2007, 05:14 AM
I was going through and looking at the entries! I have to say I laughed really loud when I saw yours! I love it! Can't wait to see it finished!
07-15-2007, 10:25 AM
wonderful change to the fisherman...he looks more engaged and now has a better dynamic pose.
great concept...I can't wait to see to see the finished piece
07-15-2007, 01:59 PM
This is a great! Brings to mind The Old Man and the Sea or even Moby Dick.
I have a couple of ideas you may wish to consider:
I love the idea that the end of the fish's tongue is naturally made to look like a human arm and that it's the tongue that is the lure and not a light on top of the head dangling down like a real angler fish. This way the man grabs the arm to help but gets pulled into the water and directly into the mouth. Great. :) But, what if the tongue was normal and it was wrapped around another man's dead arm/limb. That would qualify for really strange behavior--the fish would actually be thinking about how to lure the man in, instead of natural instinct. Plus you'd have the added comical bonus of knowing that the fish was already successful once.
Make the fish bigger so that the juxtaposition of the fish and boat/man is almost comical.
Maybe make the composition longer/taller so that at first glance the viewer only sees the sky, the old man/boat, the arm coming out of the water; then they scroll down (with their eyes, or literally scroll down) and see the beast below.
Good work so far. Love the concept, definately go with it.
07-16-2007, 07:38 PM
So. The "Linedrawing" is finished. Now I finally scaled up the image to its final working resolution and started working on the Details. First Thing: The Sky
Next to come: Fisher and his boat.
07-16-2007, 07:44 PM
elmasfoe: Thanks. I hope I can make the underwaterpart even cooler...
xioncajou: Yeah you are, right, but I think so it is a bit easier to understand the image.
Mohanned: The Imageration is already pretty big. The finalimage will be bigger, to create the effect you discribed
07-18-2007, 07:17 PM
I liked the chilling atmosphere :) keep on going
07-19-2007, 10:45 AM
The sky is starting to have depth, I love it. What I suggest now is to check the sea's color near the horizon line : in my opinion it will help you to put in relation sea's and sky's perspective and depths.
Good work !
07-21-2007, 02:32 AM
That hand on the end of the tongue is a really good idea! Great concept - good luck!
07-21-2007, 04:58 PM
i like a lot this last concept, the idea of the hand is more strange behavior, im waitig till you finished it. images/icons/icon10.gif
08-02-2007, 08:42 PM
This is why I don't go fishing ;)
08-03-2007, 03:31 AM
I really like this, great colour and composition. My only suggestion would be a few more seagulls hanging around waiting for "floating bits" after the inevitable.
It would make it seems like this is a regular event and the seagulls know this, and are waiting for the scraps. Maybe give the picture more of a foreboding feeling.
Only my humble opinion thought, otherwise it's awesome!
08-05-2007, 12:58 PM
Not much to say. More Details on the Fisher. Nearly final I would say. I also changed the arm and somethings on the face.
pretty nice concept, i didnt notice the hand was like bait, maybe some more light to the area or something to draw the viewer into the area with the hand in the water because i could tell at first what was going on...just a thought. dont have to use it. goodluck mate :)
08-07-2007, 08:02 AM
nice concept buddy.wud surely follow ur thread.Best of luck:thumbsup:
08-12-2007, 04:54 PM
Nearly finished the over water part of the picture. Added some detail.
The fishermans left arm (screen right) seems a little off. The shoulder seems to form an odd angle with the upper arm, considering that the arm is stretched out.
08-14-2007, 05:11 AM
Hi, that's a very good idea. I like it very much.
Good Luck! :)
08-19-2007, 05:18 PM
I like how the fisherman has his arms and face brown and tanned and the whiter chest...
the only thing I could say is that maybe you could add a bit more of detail in some areas of the boat, but I also like the more painterly look that it has now... looking forward to the underwater part ;)
08-23-2007, 09:28 PM
hey essen !
when i was on vacation the last two weeks i was swiming around some boats.
At the bottom of the boats there where those reflections from the water looking
really nice ! i hope you know what i mean... maybe an idea for your painting !
09-06-2007, 11:43 AM
Okay...its nearly finished, only needs some fine tunning, but I'm quite happy with what the pic looks like right now.
Any comments or advices?
09-06-2007, 12:42 PM
very nice idea! I like it. My lil crit here is your lighting. I think there´s something wrong with fisherman´s body, especially shoulders are way dark compared to belly, even if its tan. Keep it up :thumbsup:
09-06-2007, 01:37 PM
I love this painting.
09-06-2007, 05:34 PM
That's a really great idea man! :thumbsup: Totally awesome and very unfunny (in a sick sort of way).:shrug:
On the illustration side of things, I would love to see more detail and generally more realism -the volumetric light, the guy (his shoulders could use some lighting on the upper area of them to give them a feeling of curvature and although I understand that the man's chest is receiving reflected light from the water, it seems like a bit too much), the boat and the wood panel wood benefit from more details - but then, that's just my personal preference.
I really like the clouds and the illustration style you gave to them.
The idea is great and it sells this puppy!
LOL, I just thought - the sea gulls know what's going on and altough they look peaceful, they're real just waiting for scraps! hehe! Sick.
Hey Marcus, what a cool idea!!, i like a lot!! :thumbsup: I can see you start painting the water reflections over the boat and the sea monster, that will be a beautiful detail :) Again great work Marcus!! :beer:
09-07-2007, 05:01 AM
Sorry I've been away for so long, your new post is great, the clouds are so fluffy....
I think Ramon is right, the chest and stomach of the man are too pale, if it is from relection I could suggest to add some of the green-blue sea color there, as you did on the lower part of the boat. In the other hand the face tends to be a bit on the dark side, maybe a little shine on the nose and cheeks could help.
09-07-2007, 07:28 PM
very nice idea, that is remind me so book i had when i was young!
For the drawing, i'm a bit suspicious about the dark shoulder (the left one), because the sun is not just behind him?no?
09-10-2007, 12:52 PM
After your comments I did some new changes one the picture. Especially I change some things on the fisher. His face now has I better perspective(I hope so), and I think its now a bit clearer that his body is patchy tanned, because he used to wear a shirt or something like that.
I also change some details on the fish and the underwaterlightning.
09-10-2007, 01:59 PM
This is a great image, I'm surpised at myself for not having dropped in sooner. Great concept of the fish, and well executed, and the lighting in and around the water is looking terrific! I agree with something I think Yoff was getting at earlier about the screen-right arm: It's supposed to be foreshortened, but it's not quite reading right yet, and so that arm just ends up looking stubby compared to the other one. Perhaps if you exaggereated thye size of the forearm and hand more due to perspective, or let us see more of the palm of the hand as it's coming towards the camera...? Right now that hand is practically a side view, which lends to the confusion.
Anyhow, just a small nitpick on an otherwise wonderful scene. Great work on this!
09-10-2007, 02:59 PM
Fantastic idea and fantastic execution! My only main crit would be the guys left arm, the foreshortening looks a little inaccurate. Personally I preferred the fish you had in post #13, but its still looking great!
09-10-2007, 10:55 PM
I think the problem with the arm is as much a matter of lighting as of the way it is placed.
Mmmmh, let's say the 'node' connecting the arm to the body is located very low, where the armpit should be. I think that cutting the arm and pasting it a little more up and to the right, then redoing the shoulder muscle so it fits the position and angle could work for a start, then you should follow Mike's suggestions and that'd be no problem anymore, I think.:D
You're already there, Congratulations for your great picture!
Oh and I loved the light distortion on the little floating thingie (I don't know what they call it) of the fishing rod. that and the bottom of the boat look just great!!:thumbsup:
09-11-2007, 01:50 PM
what is the maximume size for uploading a final pic?
09-18-2007, 06:31 AM
Essen, great concept man! the lighting of the water and the huge deep sea fish look really well executed. It's got a great Gary LArson feel to it. My only comment is on the color pallette above water. It seems to be lacking some of those saturated colors which you have plenty of in the water side - maybe adding deeper oranges and reds to the guys skin would help get rid of the slight muddiness. Aside from that, great idea!
09-18-2007, 07:15 AM
I think that in this painting good idea killed by lack of details. You have to work on details. More details on the water, on the monster. Make It more scary...
09-19-2007, 11:57 AM
Great idea !
I agree that more details should be great for your final picture.
09-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Again I changed some things. Especially on the over-water-part I added some more details and underwater I tried to add some more depth.
10-03-2007, 08:45 PM
Absolutely fantastic! An excellent idea and well executed. :thumbsup: That fish "thing" looks extreamly nasty! Poor man... But a fish gotta eat :twisted:
10-04-2007, 10:09 AM
Adding more details, changing the lightning and trying to solve problems with the color-management...
10-04-2007, 10:51 PM
awesome design the fish monster! maybe some subtle PS ripple generation under the water would really validate the rendering.
10-08-2007, 07:01 PM
I think that's (nearly) it. There will be no bigger changes anymore, I'm quite happy now. I gave the whole pic some more detail and completely reworked some parts of it. So I consider this to be virtually finished.
This has really evolved into a beautiful piece my friend. Great work. Lovely designed fish and tight composition crop:thumbsup:
10-09-2007, 09:49 PM
Mensch, das haut ordentlich rein! Gefällt mir unheimlich gut!
Dass ist diesen thread nicht schon vorher gesehen hab, mannmannmann...
It tells a strong story, very engaging and evocative!
The creature design is top-notch, very scary! :)
Although I hate to come up with this so late (you say the image is 99.9% done...), I have a few critique points for you if you don't mind:
The light streaks in the water, yet being a nice touch, seem to be a tad too strong and distracting. In one of your earlier versions they were missing and the focus on the action was a little more prominent there.
And yet, I also feel that the scene is a bit empty in telling small stories and could use some additional details like swarms of fishes that flee in fear or something. Also, have you thought about altering the sky to a somewhat moody version? How about adding some ominous clouds that act as a foreboding message of danger...? Heck, I know you can't possibly change the complete lighting situation now so I regret that I didn't find your thread earlier...sorry!
But just a last point if you don't mind (jeez, you must be hating me already):
what if you tilted the image so the horizon is not perfectly straight? It could evoke some dynamic and positive imbalance since this scene takes place on the sea...
Well, all put aside, this is one hell of a piece nontheless! Awesome job! One of my favourites! :)
10-09-2007, 11:22 PM
du wechselst aber deine "finished" pics öfter als so mancher seine Unterhosen ;p
very nice painting, I really like the colors and your style
I know you`re quite finished now but I think some silhouettes of waterplants at the bottom of the painting would look cool or some little fishies which are swimming around with this big guy...but maybe it would look to nice and no more dangerous
however, congratulation man
10-10-2007, 08:29 AM
love the picture man... just the idea is very creative and makes ya think of whats gonna happen next. great job.
10-10-2007, 12:26 PM
ooo... looking great!
10-22-2007, 03:58 PM
They are naturally called anglerfish, sea-devil, fishing-frog or frog-fish.
They naturally can grow to a length of more than 2m.
They have long filaments along the middle of its head, which are the detached and modified three first spines of the anterior dorsal fin.
And they naturally attract other fishes by means of its lure.
Everything of these facts apply to this angler fish. A least a little bit.
This angler fish has no special name, because nobody knows it exists. And those who have found out of this creatures existence don't had much time to find a proper name.
This angler fish can grow as large as a bus.
This angler fish don't use its fins. It needs strength. And for this it uses the strongest muscle in his body: his tongue. His 8m long tongue.
And this angler fish don't attract other fishes with its lure. It attracts other fishers with his tongue which can mimic a drowning person. And everyone who tries to help the moribund person will be fey.
The tongue-hand of the angler fish will grab the helping hand of the angler and the hunter will become the prey.
There is no other animal who display such a strange hunting behavior, by faking someone helpless to fool a helping person.
And nobody knows what where natures thoughts when it breeded this creature.
10-28-2007, 06:48 PM
Wow such a tongue! Haha! Very clever piece and nicely done! Good luck!
10-29-2007, 06:31 AM
Congrats my friend.:thumbsup: This is a favorite of mine :)
10-29-2007, 04:32 PM
Brrr Very scary... Powerful composition...
I agree with previous post... I d dimm down the power of the water rays (more ramps?) to not distract from the tongue... Overall, I like the brilliant concept. Best regards.:thumbsup:
THE SEE CREATURE IS SPLENDID! great work! fantastic creaure design!
Hey Marcus, awesome concept!! I love your monster fish design! The hand decoy is an amazing and great touch!! hahaha really cool!! I like a lot the composition and the atmosphere on your scene!! Congratulations for this great artwork and good luck!! Cheers mate !! :beer:
11-27-2007, 06:50 AM
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