Strange Behavior (Illustration) Entry: Michael Dashow

[graphicgolem]

No cc here just praise - really loving the attention to detail especially the character development - brilliant! Cant wait to see more.

[walrus]

Thanks, Iridyse and Okmer. Glad you like how things are looking. As for Zachary, he doesn't much like how things are shaping up. His reaction to my work?

http://michaeldashow.com/zachary/Zachary26_0046_sm.jpg

Ha ha, just kidding! That's just him getting his first taste of prunes! Who can blame the guy?
Nothing new to show just now. I redrew Normiel's hands and added some chair-backs and incorporated the goblet into the scene, but that's all boring stuff. More alter... Ta!

[Coyox]

Oh my! I had no idea until you had joined until just now! Definitely looking forward to this one.

I fell in love with your entry for "The Journey Begins" challenge. Gawking at it for weeks, and even learned some things! ANd I'm enjoying looking at your updates thus far. keep em coming!

[AlonChou]

great work! i can't wait to see it finish!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186026993_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186026993_large.jpg)

I've spent a little time designing the stone-work on the ground. I won't bore you with pages of sketches of other concepts, just the final results this time. I only recently discovered the power of Photoshop's Smart Objects tools - basically, they let you instance an image, so you can resize the copies down to nothing and scale them back up, or free-transform several times and they will still look brand new. You can even edit the original version of the iamge an those changes will occur in every instance of the layer. So I used these to make all of the leaves and repeating swirly patterns, and then used the Warp tool to distort it all into place on the ground. That's the unwarped version at the top so that you can see all my pretty swirlies.

(And for a really helpful tutorial on how to use the Smart Object features, check out this link:
http://www.tutvid.com/tutorials_pages_subs/PHOTOSHOP/Smart_Objects.html) (http://www.tutvid.com/tutorials_pages_subs/PHOTOSHOP/Smart_Objects.html)

I've also added chair backs, and that coca-Cola chalice on the table, and redrawn Normiel's (3rd from the left's) hands.

And with that the foreground is completely done! On to the background, of which you've already seen some preliminary sketches and 3D work.

[Ferx]

Hey Michael, great work man!! really impressive :eek: :thumbsup:
I like alot your stone work for the floor, great!! :)

[justanothercow]

Hey there, fantastic work!! Love all your details and how much you put into each character. Cant wait for more updates :)

Btw
Gotuel - Go to hell?
Nosindier - Nose in the air?

:P

[NinjaA55N]

Awesome shapes walrus! Before I read everything I was like.. what the hell is he puting those shapes up in the sky, why did he cancel that beautiful environment sketch. So now I know :) And thank u for giving us the link to that smart object features video! About the image... I really wish that I had something constructive to criticize, but I could just sit and enjoy everything u put together. Im not sure if u'll paint more stuff on the ground when u'll acctually start painting, or will be the ground clean, but I'd love to see some dead leaves on it, some moss and grass in the cracks between stones, something to enrich those great patterns of urs. Keep up the good work my friend!

[walrus]

Hey, thanks, guys!

Blaz - great idea with the moss and the leaves. Not something that needs to be added to the line art, of course, but that will make a nice touch to really tie it all togehter with the setting and make it feel a bit more lived in (in an Elf sort of way.)

cow - Yep, you correctly deduced the etymology of both names! :)

Ferx - Thanks!

Looking at this all now, I think I probably need to add a couple of chair-backs for the front characters too before I call the foreground done. And there'll be something under the table holding it up. (These elves having not discoverred the secrets of anti-gravity yet, that's they're distant cousins, the Space Elves, also known as the Vulcans.) But I also know that when I paint things in, that area under there will be very dark so I'm not too concerned.

Anyhow, thanks for checking out my progress!

[mim-Armand]

Greate work Walrus!
And, Really funny reaction from Zachary! :D lol!
Goodluck on the way buddy, :thumbsup:

mim,

[rawwad]

Good luck too man! Awesome concept, these elfs are great, love idea so funny and very typical:) This going to be superb again.

[Gord-MacDonald]

I love the way your idea is developing - the embellishments - floor and wall - are looking really good - provides a real richness to the image.


Gord

[yoff]

Awesome work so far. Once again your very educational way of working is for us to enjoy :) I like all the characters, the only thing that bothers me is that while each of the players have a nice expression on their own, they seem oblivious to the other players. They are supposed to be living the same moment in the same story right now, right? I think at least two of them ought to communicate...

On a philosofical note (as a comment to one of your earlier posts): In a way the girls are the main characters, since strangeness is defined by the environment (so the players behaviour would not be strange if not for their judgment).

[danesh]

Hi Mike,
Good to see u, hope u the best in this challenge!!!:thumbsup:

[handlebar]

It's great to watch the way you thoughtfuly construct your image, not a stone unturned, every detail given consideration, i'm realy enjoying, and learning a lot from your thread.

Steve 8)

[Rockhoppermedia]

Thank you for the smart object tutorial,

Rich

[Slav]

pretty fricken nifty! cant wait till you start on the colors. :D

[walrus]

Thank for the notes, folks! Been gone for a few days visiting family in L.A., so nothing new to show. :shrug:

yoff - I respectfully must disagree. Admittedly, Aggrolas is intensely focussed on the dice he's rolling, and Beliobir is playing with his miniatures, but every other person in the scene is focused on someone (or someones) else, so they don't really feel to me like they're all living in their own world the way you saw it.

It's true that it's only the girls' reactions that make the boys behaviour seem strange, but that doesn't necessarily make the girls the main characters... but it's an ensemble piece so anyone can view whomever they want as the main characters, and there's justifiable arguments for any character's behavious to be strange, depending on your pint of view, so I think we're covered! :)

More art later...!

[saghar]

tanks for purpose .I waite look fainal your work's .funy work's . good louk:thumbsup: Michael Dashow is entered in the "Strange Behavior Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/strange_behavior/view_entries.php?challenger=12635)

Latest Update: Concept Sketch or 3D pre-visualization: Walkway details
http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186026993_medium.jpg (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=4560778#post4560778)

[tastatura]

nice to see the peaces merged together :)
nothing to crit these time just waiting fro new updates mike

[walrus]

Yeah, things have been a little slow on this end - away on vacation, reading Harry Potter, and busy trying to mock up the background in 3D, which is slower than working in pencil (just because I have more time available with the pencil than the computer.) But slowly and sueyl, I'm getting a little more of it together. Not like tehre's not tons of time.

One thing I really wanted to ask folks: What do you think of that sword in Nosindier's (girl on the far right) hand? It's not the sword itself I'm worried about. TheDigitalMonkey pointed out (offline, not in the thread here) that it leads the eyes right off the side of the page, which is compositionally a bad thing. I fear he may be right. Any thoughts or suggestions? Visually, I was planning on cutting off that corner with some shadows from leaves and foliage overhead. Is the sword fighting against that too much? Just thought I'd toss that out there... Thanks!

[UldFerr]

What if she holds the sword pointing back? Right now, maybe because you pointed, it’s a little distracting.

[olipaf]

this looks very promessing!
the expressions are spot on, specially the critical looks on the elf girls faces which incidently pushes further away the place of a RPG gamer in the chain of natural selection...maybe a challenge in itself....kinda lost now in my comments....ha yes! Will they be playing with ordinary(probably meaning "of our ordinary world") people figurines, like a banker, doctor, a plumber,etc...? the wall street RPG , sort of?
just a thought.
olivier.

[ShulChi]

This is going to be a great piece. I' was laughing out loud when i saw human figures :scream:. The overall mood and comic situation are fantastic and the sheer amount of research and varieties you've done is amazing (at least to me :) haha).

As for the sword i personally think it's not that much a deal for now, don't know how it will look when it will be painted (will it be in a shadow or in highlighted). Maybe try sketching her having her sword in her sheath or leaning it on her right shoulder making look more tough.

Hope it helps :)

Best of luck to your piece

[yoff]

yoff - I respectfully must disagree. Admittedly, Aggrolas is intensely focussed on the dice he's rolling, and Beliobir is playing with his miniatures, but every other person in the scene is focused on someone (or someones) else, so they don't really feel to me like they're all living in their own world the way you saw it.

I see what you mean, there is a lot of interaction going on. What I meant is that the game itself seems to be neglected somewhat in favour of all of this. But then, dice are being rolled, figurines are being placed and rules are being read aloud, so how could I get this feeling? Maybe if it was clearer to me that Noïdal was being heard or that he was angry that he was not being listened to...still, what you have now just might be a very realistic situation :) (and make no mistake, I really like the characters now, the expressions are wonderfull and well supported by the postures.)

A note on the fence in the background: Since Aggrolas and Normiel incidently(?) cover up every other stem on the left side of the image, the right part of the fence appears more busy. I have no idea if this effect will be visible in the final image, but you might try to shift the fence pattern right or left...


More art later...!
We are waiting for that, you know ;-)

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186851690_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186851690_large.jpg)

Well, I've finallyfinished the Harry Potter series, so now I can get back to work on this. These are some rough 3D tests of some building ideas. No diffuse maps at all, juts opacity maps roughing out the repeated cirlycue tree outlines for the architecture. Thaldir tossed out the idea to maybe try Thai architecture as a basis for some of my Elf biuldings, so I decided to give it a go. The jury's still out whether it works or not (hint: you're the jury!) so we'll see.

Anyhow, just as an explanation, no, I'm not doign the whole background in 3D. It's just easier to mock-up all of the railigns and forms in 3D where it's easier to make changes. I'll eventually trace it all onto the final line art.

Olipaf - Of course they're playing humans in their RPG. See post #208 for close-ups of their figurines.

Yoff - good point about the railing posts, I'll have to work on that. Once I've brought the rest of the designs into 3D, might try the railing too: Easier to rotate around in 3D than using Photoshop's warp tool!

ShulChi and UldFerr - thanks for the ideas for the sword, I'll have to give them a try!

[mdavid]

I'm another one who wasn't too much worried about the sword, but if you decide to change that then one thing that might work is to just make it a bit shorter

[shattered-fx]

Hi Michael,

I would say those are amazing architectures ( plus the intricate detais later on that of course we know )! I expect the background aswell will surely look amazing when you render it in final !:thumbsup:.sorry, cant really make some more comments ! just keep it up!

-Raffy

MY STRANGE BEHAVIOR ENTRY (ILLUSTRATION)

[Russel-Nash]

Wow, how could I've missed this thread. Simply amazing. The characters have so much personality. :bounce:

Good luck with the challenge.

[Hideyoshi]

Wow, the background is taking this to a whole new level! I'd love to see some serious depth in there. :)
Great job, can't wait for the asskicking final, Michael!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187209123_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187209123_large.jpg)

I'm still working on the layout and the details of the background, but in the meantime, here's a small update on the foreground:

Yoff had a good point about the positioning of the posts for the balcony railing. The easiest way to deal with that was to model them in 3D and then rotate it around 'til the positioning was somewhat better. So here's the new railing with better-positioned trunks and a bit more volume to it.

I took Nosindier's sword out of her hand because it pointed too much into the lower right and guided the eye somewhere I didn't want it to be. It was only a subtle compositional flaw, but this is an improvement, I think.

And I added a chair-back in the lower right. Big deal. :rolleyes:

So that's where the foreround it - pretty much done (I've said that before) and hopefully the background will be soon too.

[mdavid]

It's coming together beautifully, Michael. The only thing that I'm slightly confused about is Beliobir - in your earlier sketches he was sitting on a low bench without a backrest. Now that the others have backrests (while he doesn't) it kind of looks like he's playing the game standing up. Of course that might only be happening because these updates have you zooming right in on the foreground stuff where we can't see what he's sitting on, so it's also likely you're aware of all that. But apart from that very minor thing ... :thumbsup:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187546032_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187546032_large.jpg)

Mark - Thanks for the input. I'm not quite sure what to do about Beliobir's seat. It would be easy enough to make him look sitting again - just angle a few of the lines below the table, which I can do at any time. I just can't figure out what to do about the chair-back. I didn't like it blocking the girls' legs, but maybe it should be there anyhow. Or maybe it's behind his body? Fortunately i can always add it in later, which is easier than taking it out, so I'll keep it in mind.

Meanwhile, I've finally got to a stage where I'm happy with the basic design of the Elf Campus in the background. Here's the 3D render of it, and it's as fancy 3D as I plan on doing for this piece. From here I just use this as a basis to create my final line art and it's all paint there-after, nothing fancier on the 3D front. You can already see the lines that I've layered on top: No fancy cel-shading renderer, just the good ol' "Find Edges" plug-in in Photoshop. And those conical upside-down mountains will all be incorporated into the mountain-side, not free-floating like you see them here. And that's where we are now!

[OKMER]

Love the architecture style you made Micheal.Looking forward to how you'll put this all together.Its all coming along very nicely.
Maybe for the chair-back and the fact that it is blocking her legs, opening up the canvas a little bit to the right could solve this..Just suggesting ofcourse.
Great,great work!Cheers!

[Thaldir]

" We are not in Rivendell anymore, Toto". ;)

Sorry, Michael I couldn't resist :) , love it, the landscape is extremely elvish, as is the terrace, but is also very much yours, it hasn't that LotR feeling anymore (a good thing in my book, no matter how visually stunning LotR was).

You're doing a magnificent job.

[walrus]

...the landscape is extremely elvish, as is the terrace, but is also very much yours...

Well, in all fairness Thaldir, it's very much yours too, in a way. You were the one who suggested the idea of incorporating Thai architecture, which I never would have ever thought of on my own. So thanks! Glad you like how it's coming out so far... Cheers!

[icedeyes]

looking really great Michael.. lots of details all around the image and the background buildings look very nice... my only remark is that without the colors (that will totally change this remark, i am sure) the forms seem a little too interwinded (not sure this is the correct word)... the eye kind of looses the path of the lines and roams around... but i am sure that colors and values will seperate the forms later on....

keep us posted

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187658400_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187658400_large.jpg)

Here we go, the pretty much finished composition. George, if you thought the line work in the previous posts were busy...! But as you correctly pointed out, it's just line art. The colors will help guide the eye around at least a little bit. Now all I have to do is refine this into finished line art... I need to find myself some large good-quality vellum!

[Ivy00]

I haven't stopped in for a while Mike, wow what beautiful line art. I can almost see it colored in my mind and it is going to be fantastic when you get to that stage. :)

[UldFerr]

Hello Michael! Your piece looks very good. But taking your portfolio as reference, this one it’s very busy indeed. Did you think about put some air between the boys and the girls? I mean, maybe if the canvas was a little “bigger” you could get rid of the claustrophobic feeling. But, it might be just me, and as you said the color work can correct that.
PS- I like the way you fixed the sword thing.

[icedeyes]

Might be busy but its looking beautiful Michael... the buildings in the bg look great now... keep it up...

[Noisetank]

I dont think its too bussy at all, all the different elements fit nicely together and you have a nice opening for light to pour in. I remember in lotr the elven village was very warm with sunlight. Or if you wanted to paint a night scene you could add some lamps to the railing or neatly place some fireflies around. LOOKING GOOD MAaan!

[Rockhoppermedia]

I absolutely hate it, blooming awful and you definately cant draw,


Only Joking just wanted to say I look forward to seeing how you transfer a line drawing into a painting as that is what I am having trouble with.

Many Regards

Rich

[Jassar]

Wow Michael ! now I know what they mean by "never rush art"......

Can't wait to see your painting process on this one.
Cheers

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187726347_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187726347_large.jpg)

Thanks for the notes, everyone... but especially thanks to UldFerr for suggesting that I widen the canvas. It was seeming a bit cramped, but I didn't really even notice until you called attention to it. Fortunately for me, I hadn't cropped the entire image, so that when I extended the canvas out to the right, there was still a lot of decoration for the floor tiles there (because it would have been a royal paint to rewarp that file in exactly the same way again!) I needed to rerender out the railing, but that's just a 3D file so that part was easy. I think this does work better... Thank you for suggesting it before it was too late!

And thank you everyone for all of the comments, they're all appreciated. Don't worry about its being very busy, i just need lots of guideline to tell me where to paint. I suspect that half of this line art will be erased by the time I'm through.... but I want it all there to start anyhow!

[sillyscribbler]

Absolutely love what you're doing though have admired your work from afar for a long time. Staggered about the sheer volume of drawing you've managed, alongside your job, Zach etc and the number of times you manage to post on others threads. So big congratulations, liked the concept from the beginning and feel privileged to watch it take shape. I've just realised that this might be 'irrelevent and unnecessary fluff' but what the hey! you should be able to say if you like someones work even if you can't say why apart from it makes me smile.

Sillyscribbler http://forums.cgsociety.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=4601321#

[ReinaldoRomero]

This is beautyfull, i agreed with linda, i can see that rendered in my head too, keep t up

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187892934_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1187892934_large.jpg)

Some very fast, very sloppy value studies to determine where I'll place my main light. #3 is what I'm going with - I like the contrast between the foreground and background, which I always pictured being light and airy.

sillyscribbler - Thanks! I appreciate your post and glad the peice makes you smile. Your post is by no means "irrelevent and unnecessary." I appreciate hearing from you. If this whole long thread was just full up with people telling my what to change in my artwork, I suspect that wouldn't speak very highly of me as an artist, would it? :)

Reinaldo - You can already see this rendered in your head? Great, could you tell my what colors I ended up choosing? I haven't got there yet and it would save me a few steps!

Meanwhile, I've printed out the line art at 13x20 inches and bought a nice large sheet of thick tracing vellum so the line art should be underway soon...!

[NinjaA55N]

Im voting for the lowest one. These tones give the best possible atmosphere, dark areas at the sides centers the focus into characters which are really well shaded so that they dont pop out too much but rather mix with the environment, still playing the most important role in the image. great job once again :)

[walrus]

(duplicate post deleted)

[icedeyes]

I would choose 3 too... It has more depth and contrast...

have fun,
George

[Ferx]

Maybe number 3, but i liked the contrast on the elfs playing in the number 2, it gives me a really sensation that they are playing under a tree, only a comment :) Nice work :thumbsup:

[Jaws]

Hi Walrus ... this is probably way too late, seeing as you basicly done with the comp an everything, but I just needed to mention a couple of things. One thing that might have something to do with an important aspect of the interactiong between the characters and another thing I just wanted to mention out of personal preference.

The thing about the character interaction is, that it seems to me that the guy looking at the girl (can't remember his name), it seems to me, that his eyeline is too high. It worked in previous sketches, when they were closer, but they seem further apart now.

I get that estetically having the eyeballs at the top of the socket looks best, but does it seem correct? I'm not sure .. I just wanted to mention it :)

The other thing is just a preference thing of mine, I actually preferred the design of the "guy looking at the girl" you had before you changed to this one. He had more of a hero look, while still seeming dorky. You may have done it on purpose making him look more nerdy, (I didn't read every single post in this thread) but to me he now seems to nerdy to 'get the girl' :) He looked better a character when he had long hair in the back.

Sorry to mention all this when it's too late, but I just spotted this thread.

Feel free to ignore it ;)

[Mr-Mike]

I love your paintings and sketches and this one is gearing up to be your best yet. I really liked seeing your character studies on your sketch-blog it gives people a glimpse into how you go about devoping and then rounding out your ideas. Can't wait to see more.

[frankitu]

wooow, u have a lot of sketches!!
mmm... I like the illumination of the numbers 2 and 3, the first image seems be too darkly.
the second image have some parts a little dark, but the background city looks better.

[mdavid]

Yep, I'm glad you're going with number 3 too :thumbsup:

[Thaldir]

Definitely number 3...and everytime I look at this thread it's getting better. :thumbsup:

[walrus]

Thanks for the notes, everyone! Glad you all like comp #3... especially as I've already said I'm going with that one. It's more harmonious when we all agree.

Jaws - Thanks for the lengthy comments, especially as it seems that this is your first post here on CGTalk. Welcome! I'm flattered that your first post here is a lengthy helpful post on my thread. I think you have a good point about the nerdy guy's eye-line. (his name is Normiel, but it's okay if no-one knows that: It's not very important, it just saves me having a bunch of layers called "Nerdy guy's new hands," "Big fat fellow's hairdo," etc.) Of course, that's an easy thing to work on more in the painting process. As for liking (or not) his character design, keep in mind that the contest theme os 'Strange Behavior.' Isn't it Strange Behavior for him to think that he has any chance at hitting it off with her? And isn't it Strange Behavior for her to be attractive to someone so nerdy? If I'd made him too heroic, people then would have wondered why he was role-playing with those other geeks!

(oh, and a side note - please, no-one be offended by my liberal labeling of these characters as "nerds" and "geeks." I use the terms lovingly, and as a self-avowed nerd and geek myself.)

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188109839_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188109839_large.jpg)

Final Line art. Pencil on Heavy Vellum, 13 x 20 inches. 20 inches is HUGE, this took me hours to redraw! And yes, this is almost completely redrawn from scratch, not just a greyscale version of earlier posts. The table decorations are gold because they're on a seperate layer from the line art - I didn't redraw them, just brought in that 3D render I did of them earlier.

Next up: Values!

[mdavid]

Wow! Michael, that looks fantastic

[yoff]

Wow! Michael, that looks fantastic
indeed! Beautiful lineart :thumbsup:

I am glad you are going with value study #3, it has a very nice mood. I am looking forward to seeing it realized on the polished lineart... :)

[Ramon]

I enjoy details and there's a lot of them in this pencil illustration. Great poses and expressions as well.

[SteevieWoo]

Sweet Mike! I can only say thanks for all your detailed postings, Is great to see all those little bits in place now.

:thumbsup:

[NinjaA55N]

wow Michael! U did it flawlessly, so rich illustration but yet so simple to the eye. there are two things to mention though, when I was looking to this piece for about 15 minutes.. nothing seriously, easy to correct with colors if u choose to do so, but I think worth saying anyway. The girls (girl with a bow) right leg seems to be turned in, specially her knee, what makes her look like she has a broken and twisted leg. Slightly, but still noticable I think. And the second thing is girls (the one on the top right) right leg, the one that is closer to us, seems to be shorter than her left one, the one that is in the back. And that would be all... oh, one more thing.. awesoem cloth folds! :D cant wait to see ur basic color scheme. good luck!

[icedeyes]

the bold outlines and line variation of the objects and characters help a lot in making this more readable... looking very good...

have fun,
George

[OKMER]

Yap,yap looking fantastic indeed!!Great great linework Micheal!Cheers!

[paperclip]

:love:

That is all.

[Ramitxon]

Fantastic work Mike, such an incredible amount of detail. It only worries me that you could focus yourself on the intricate designs and lose the attention on the characters, well... obviously that's no news to you, I just needed to say something. I'm looking forward to see the first color stages. :thumbsup:

[walrus]

Thanks for the notes, folks... especially you, Blaz, but man, where were you BEFORE I drew the final line art?!? lol Now I have to go back and fix it! I'm not sure I agree with you about the far left girl - or at least it's not something that can't be fixed with paints - but you're absolutely right about the far right left girl's legs. Glad you saw that after looking for 15 minutes... I've been working on it for 2 months and didn't see it 'til you pointed it out!

Anyhow, I'm just here slowly blocking in colors when I have time... but like Mark, I too have a bit freelance gig going on in the background too. Not as big as his, I suspect, but pressing none-the-less. And funny thing, as folks here have been asking me about this piece's impending color composition, my side-gig is an article about that very process for ImagineFX magazine. It's on how I used Photoshop layers to organize my palette and chose working colors for my last painting. It's the December issue, IFX #24 - hope you'll pick up up!

Anyhow, back to work...! :)

[MDN67]

Very nice line art, i wait the next update with coloring wip, very good job

[lotaH]

Great Job!! Congratulations!

Good luck!

[]'s

[element5]

Hey Michael,

Nice to see you again and looking to be another walrus masterpiece.

Will be watching
Cheers
Mark

[killer-instinct93]

Michael I sure hope you're a fast painter :P That's a lot of detail and characters do do in under two months. (Maybe it seems like a short time because school starts on Tuesday)

Anyways, I can't wait to see how this turns out :thumbsup:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188505799_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188505799_large.jpg)

Before anyone gets too excited about color, this isn't really color. I'm just blocking out sections of the image to aid in selections and coloring later on. So there are greens in there now, but they could end up any color before I'm done. But having each color on a seperate layer so that I can select those areas later on will be a huge help. So all in all, not that exciting a step to post, but it's progress. After I get this done, then I do the full-render value study.

Oh, and you'll note I fixed the far left girl's legs, Blaz!

That's all for now...

[Goro]

wohoo! Great progress mate! I didn't check the sb entries for a while...
go go go walrus!

[mdavid]

Before anyone gets too excited about color, this isn't really color.Sorry Michael. Too late. I got excited.

No seriously, I understand the point you make about this not being the actual colouring, but this version shows off the composition well and it looks excellent :thumbsup:

[walrus]

Thanks, Mark and Goro. Well, the plan is to add a lot of aerial perspective to this so that as the elf campus and the rest of the wilderness recede towards the horizon, it all starts getting fogged out and paler. There may be a lot of detail in the sketch, but the colors should really help all of that recede off into the distance and let the foreground be the star. Once I add some strong shadows in the corners, I think the whole thing willl be visually framed well, too. We'll see...! :)

[OKMER]

Excellent!Me got excited too,haha!This is going to be huge!
Personaly I'll just open the canvas a tiny bit more(on the right) to give this beautiful panorama you got more power.Just a thought ofcourse.
Anyway, great,great work as usual!!!
Cheers!

[Smik]

Very, very and very good progress and composition, Walrus! )

[Ramitxon]

Wow, let the fun begin. Man I'm looking forward to see more.

[tastatura]

Mate that is very nice progress :) the final line art is wonderfull with nice dinamic thick and tin line weight and the first color blocking realy sets the enviorment and the depth in the composition, looking closely as you are getting closer and closer to wraping up these thing :)

[Nomad]

Wow Michael thats alot of fantastic work you did there :eek:


Great idea and execution. I`m looking forward for the next updates :bounce:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188970436_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1188970436_large.jpg)

Hi, all. Starting to lay in values for every part of the painting. This is how far I've gotten so far - you can see how much I have to go! But hey, it's a start! This value render will be overlaid on top of the color blocking I did earlier (but with different colors) so I don't need to try to make the different parts of the image different values here, because they'll be influenced by the color layers. (And if that didn't make sense, just wait a few weeks and I'll show you!)

Anyhow, just wanted to show I'm making progress...! :)

[yoff]

Good start! The shadows around his mouth are a little hard to read; it seems like there is a big tooth there...

[SteevieWoo]

OH! it makes sence... nice way to do it...... easy re-selecting that way, I have to try it !
Thanks Mike!

[Jassar]

So Michael, is there a color pallete in your mind or are you depending on tests?

Nice work so far by the way :)

[walrus]

I have a vague idea that green in there somewhere might be nice, but nothing further than that. I will completely wait until I lay the lighting pass over the color blocking before I foor around with colors, at which point I'm sure I'll stumble upon something that works okay. I love the experimenting-with-all-different-colors phase of the painting, it's a lot of fun!

And yoff, thanks for pointing out the "tooth," I fixed it.

[paulwdavidson]

Like you wrote, that it's still in the early process of your technique, but already the form pops out very nicely. Lot's of character as well............which is key in this challenge.

Bring on the colour goodies.

Paul

[guterrez]

oh man I just saw your thread and damn, I had a quite similar idea, just from the other side: some dirty, ugly orks playing something like "Lawyer and Court"......ufz I guess I`ll rewrite the concept a bit cause after all you came up with this much earlier...anyway, nice start man and great idea ;p
cheers

[walrus]

The funny thing is, I even came up with the Orcs idea before I came up with this one... But I had JUST finished a painting with about 16 trolls in it and didn't want to do the same thing over again, so I chose Elves instead. Plenty of ideas still out there, so good luck!

[XIA]

Hey Mike! Long time no seen...I haven't been doing personal art in a long while.
Good work Bro! Looking good!!!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189056754_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189056754_large.jpg)

Hey, Xia, good to see you round again! It's been a while since we've seen your work, sorry you haven't had much time for the personal stuff... But at least I'm sure you've had lots of opportunity to do some cool stuff at work. There's been some really amazing stuff coming out of ArenaNet lately! :)

Meanwhile, I'm just chugging away on my values. One more character down, and little by little we fill in the scene. I start with the characters and their faces first because they're the most important part of the image, the part people will relate to most.

Cheers, all!

[SteevieWoo]

MMMh... maybe Beliobir's hand has too protruding tendons, I mean his hands are chubby and he's not doing much work lifting the figure (you have to be gentle with those figures) so maybe a more natural and relaxed look would look better, I think....

Normiel looks great but maybe his right hand should be more darkened from the book's shadow...

Looking sweet Mike!

[Ferx]

Hey Mike, only one word ... awsome!!! :D Really great work !!
I'm agree with Gabriel and think Beliobir's nose and mouth shadow dont follow the cheek structure of the face, only a comment:) Again awesome work !! and really waiting for more updates :beer:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189196518_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189196518_large.jpg)

THanks for the fedback, guys. Gabriel, your was incredibly helpful and spot-on. I had found some great reference of fat guys' hands... I'd just forgotten to use it when I was rendering out that hand. I've since fixed it up as you suggested and it's much better.

I'm about halfway done with Aggrolas - I went to work on him this morning, but my scratch disk crapped out - it was brand new, too, grrr! - so instead I spent the morning on the phone to Seagate's customer support. Fortunately my wife went to the store today and even though it was past the in-store warrantee (by ONE DAY!) they let her have a new one.

So enough grousing. Instead, for my lunch breaks at work I've been working on the game map that Beliobir will be placing figurines onto. The miniatures aren't quite to scale with this map, but that's okay. Those of you who can read and write Tolkien's elf language, Tengwar, will have no trouble decyphering the enscriptions. :)

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189269180_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189269180_large.jpg)

Well, reaction to the game board map was somewhat underwhelming.... :) So here's value work on Aggrolas (with some fixes on the other characters, as Gabriel suggested.)

[Jassar]

Very nice Michael :) .... is that the true "Tolkien Elvish Language" on the board map ?

[walrus]

Yes. Or at least it's one of them. There are apparently several different dialects and forms of writing in Tengwar... but fortunately there are also many devoted fans out there who have made trueType fonts based on Tolkien's Tengwar writing. This is one of them, and others will crop up all over the rest of the game pieces as well.

[minminxu]

ah ah ....so interesting ..:scream: ...good job....Mr.walrus.....keep it up and good luck....

[icedeyes]

Man... i dont visit this thread for a week and you managed to take it so far... the shading on the characters looks great... The only comment that i have is that the skin of the character on the right (the chuby one... cant remember his name) seems to fold near the bracelet... If that was intentional then its ok but i think you might want to soften the effect up a bit because it looks more like something that would cause him pain (being so sharp now)...

have fun,
George

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189401364_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189401364_large.jpg)

Thanks, George and Minmin. Here's the latest progress on the characters and the values.

[SteevieWoo]

Wow more advance! Shading is really helping bring up the personalities of each one, maybe more in Aggrolas, who's looking way "aggrer" now!

Maybe is just the black and white, but he looks a bit creepy to me. and also I feel like his smile is kind of popping out of his face (Like Jack Nicholson in Batman) Uh..., I think is just that the cheek muscle is not following the corner of the mouth... it could pop up more on the face's silhouette.
Noïdal looks great, Keep it coming!:applause:

[Anatomista]

Awesome work! I agree with SteevieWoo about what his said of the guy's smile. There should be shadows of his cheek over the ends of his mouth. :)
It is cool to follow this thread. Bye!

[icedeyes]

I cant even begin to tell you how much i admire your shading skills... they look like shaded 3d models...

have fun,
George

[tastatura]

its wonderfull Mike ! the cloth wraps shading is stuning :) the board is very nicely done and the elfs typo is cool thing on it. The only thing that is cathing my eye is the Aggrolas ear i can't tell what exactly about it but it looks like its just stuck there.

[Rockhoppermedia]

The guy with the arm up his right ear is far too forward, prehaps move it back a touch and have some strands coming forward.


PS well done so far, really learning from this tutorial

Rich

[walrus]

Rich - Excellent observation... Thanks for pointing out the ear. I took care of it - you'll get to see next time I upload a new image.

I also fixed up the mouth and cheeks of Aggrolas - thank you Gabriel and Anatomista for pointing those out.

Meanwhile, I haven't been asleep on the job. More like incredibly busy in the job - the DAY job - and only managing to smeak in an hour here and there for this piece. I'm starting to feel very pressured for time! I finished the left girl VERY early this morning, not I just have the other two... and the entire background, of course! I'll post a new update when I finish the gaggle of girls!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189754762_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189754762_large.jpg)

Ah, screw it, I just finished the 2nd of the 3 girls so I'll just post 'em now. While I work on the 3rd, other folks can find stuff wrong with the first two!

[Thaldir]

Magnificent work, Mike! I LOVE it! :thumbsup:

A very minor doubt on the girl on the middle: looking at the other girls, I'd say the ears are almost parallel to the head, while with the girl in the middle (forgot the name, sorry) the head is tilted, while the visible ear is at the same angle of the archer girl's one, making me think that, if the position is correct, the ears are either mobile or diverging from the head as they go up...

Hope what I'm trying to say is understandable, my English feels rather convoluted at the moment, your thread stuns me everytime.

[Jassar]

Hey man! amazing update :) , my only note is that the hand holding the bow looks a bit too small.... or maybe it's just me.

Can't wait to see more.

[walrus]

Thanks, guys, good points, both of them! And fortunately, easy fixes - just made those changes, and am on to the 3rd girl (Nosindier.) Hope I have lots of time to work on her and the rest fo teh pic this weekend (fingers crossed!) :)

[Harris-ejaz]

this remains one of the sonceptually stronger entries.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189906158_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189906158_large.jpg)

Harris-ejaz - Thanks for the support! I was shooting for "artistically passable," but I'll take what I can get. :)

Finally finished the characters, at least until people comment on other things that I should fix. They're the most detailed part but I've got a lot of landscape to cover. Still, it's a milestone I'm glad to have reached.

[mdavid]

Still, it's a milestone I'm glad to have reached.... and an impressive milestone too, Michael.

The folds in their clothing are beautifully done, but I especially like the way you've done the stitching, for example down the front of Aggrolas's shirt. I can't crit this stuff. It's wonderful

[SteevieWoo]

Well Mike congratulations, now you have the whole gang shaded that's another notch to you. Way to go!!

I hate to be such a bother, now my crit is on the front girl. mmm Gotuel right? I like her the most because she's all cranky and takes no bull! love that! uh... where I was?........ ah yeah! her forehead looks a bit too 'square' which doesn't happen in the lineart, that makes her whole head look a little blocky. I also think her left leg looks kinda rubbery, like it's bending forward, but maybe it is lust (I mean just, what a typo :blush: )an effect of the clothes folds, I dunno...

Yes they're right! her hand looks small, I haven't noticed before.

Little things, no big deal, great group composition, what about the ornament on aggrola's shirt? I liked it.

Great work as always Mike!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189972824_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1189972824_large.jpg)

Mark - Thanks, glad you're liking it!

Gabriel - Thanks so much for the comprehensive crits. Excellent points, all! You're not being a bother at all: I really appreciate your taking the time to point out lots of small things that slipped by me. That's exactly the sorts of things I'm looking for.

So I spent some time painting more of the girls' faces - not just the one SteevieWoo pointed out - and also had a glorious amount of time this morning to paint the rest of the foreground as well. It might not look like much but there's the whole gnarly railing and lots of stones and cracks on the ground.

Oh, and as for Aggrolas' clothing detail, I didn't omit it. I just decided it would be easier to add it at the end after I got colors worked out, rather than painting light and shadows for it all now. That was, I can keep it on a separate layer and make changes more efficiently. The rest of the crew will have some level of clothing patterns and details too.

Cheers!

[cabertevon]

Nice. Shadows are neatly done.

Oh one thing, the girl's arm (far right), add little distinction between her Biceps (short head) and Brachialis muscles.

Cheers.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190038597_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190038597_large.jpg)

Thanks, Von, Good call! I fixed her arm, and made some nice adjustments to the arm and elbow of the middle girl while I was there. I'm uploading another image because the thumbnail vanished for the last one. Anyone else notice that, how thumbnails seem to sometimes fail to crop up for threads in this Challenge now and then? At least it's been happening to my thread. :/

[RicoD]

This is looking great! Amazing to see how much thought and reasoning you've put in every little detail. I also like the balance you have there.

But since I need something to whine about or else I don't sound enough like a critic :

I'm in agreement with SteevieWoo it seems. The legs of the bow carrying girl (Eek, I forgot her name) seem a little awkward to me too. It doesn't have that sense of motion the legs of the other girls have. I think it's because the lines of her hips and thighs don't really connect well with the lower parts of her legs. Almost as if her thighs are positioned like she's standing whereas her feet are walking away from her. The hips and shoulders don't seem to counterbalance each other there.

But back to praising, that floor is gorgeous! Remind me if I ever win millions in the lottery to buy me a house with a patio like that! Actually, a scenery and fence like that doesn't sound to shabby either ... ;)

[guero]

Why didn't you fixed the legs on the girl on the left it's mighty distracting. Her midsection is facing the camera while the rest of the body moving foreward.
Another thing i would suggest study folds in a lot of places you are just improvising. Check out Villpu Studio (http://www.vilppustore.com/Gendvd.htm) this guy is briliant he was teaching disney animators how to draw, he has a DVD on drapery and how it envelopes the body and how to draw correct folds.
Good luck.

[icedeyes]

hey Michael....

Everything looks great but the middle girl looks kind of old and it must be because the wrinkles on the side of the eyes as well as the ones around the mouth.. maybe you want to tone that down a bit...

keep it up

[miketche]

Hey there, very nice. And I hate to crit such well done work, but to me all their ears just seem to be pasted onto the sides of their heads.

Fantastic stuff never-the-less.

[elmasfeo]

the only thing I can say is that the girls look a bit older than I expected, specially the middle one, for me the shadows around her cheek and mouth are a bit too dark, too much contrast around there, but I don't know, maybe with colour they will look smoothier... or maybe it's intentional, hehe...

you seem to be putting a lot of effort in this challenge, and I think it's paying... I saw your thread at the beginning and I wasn't so convinced with the idea, but now that I see it more developed...wow, it's one of your best jobs, and that's a lot! I like it a lot, I'll add myself to the list of people wanting to see it finished already, hehe ;)


Anyone else notice that, how thumbnails seem to sometimes fail to crop up for threads in this Challenge now and then? At least it's been happening to my thread. :/
yup. I noticed too, but I thought it was just me...

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190232198_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190232198_large.jpg)

Hi, all! Thank you all for the notes and consturctive criticism. Everyone has been really helpful in pointing out things to make better, and almost everyone has even been really polite in their suggestions and advice! :)

I haven't updated in a little while because I had a hard drive crash and lost a bit of work. No worries, it was only an extrenal HD I was using as a scratch disk, but it did loose some amount of work when it blew up and I hadn't saved in a little while. That was the 2nd Seagate FreeAgent USB drive to completely go belly up on me in the last month! Seagter has a pretty good reputation, but after the second one died, I'm certainly not going to try it a third time. This time around it's a Western Digital MyBook drive - we'll see if it fares better... but at least I got this much done and it didn't crash, so it's a start!

I've tried to address every single concerm mentioned above, as they were all good points. If you feel that I have not adequately addressed your particular pet peeve, it could just be that I'm too dense to understand what you mean or how to fix it, so any repeated crits would be most welcome to have accompanying paintovers! I also think some of this is just going to look completely different once I have the colors in there. This isn't exactly the final values - I'll be layering on other effects like more lighting and depth fog which should lighten up the background more than you're seeing here.

So I'm working on the background now. THe shadows on the bottom was a combination of some photos I took in a local part and a custom scattered dot brush I created for the task. For the buildings and stuff like that up there, it started out as a 3D render but I have a lot of paintover work to do to make it really look 3D - it's still kind of flat. And I'll have to use that same leaf shadow brush to add shadows to the buildings. And lots of other details too. And less than a month left to go (because I'm taking a week-and-a-half holiday before the end.) So yeah, I'm getting nervous. It'll be tight. But I'll make it. I hope...

[Jassar]

wow, the shading effect is very nice!

And I guess you need a backup drive for your backup drive :rolleyes: , I hate it when that happenes!

[mdavid]

I love the sense of depth in the scene, since you started working on the background. I also really like the shadows you've made with that brush you mentioned.

That thumbnail thing has happened to my thread a couple of times too. Occasionally I've noticed that the system which generates new thumbnails in the submit-entry process stops making them

Good luck with your hard drive issues. If your scratch disk is wearing out like that then I'm wondering if you might need more RAM. Oh that's right, there's no such thing as having enough RAM...

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190358990_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190358990_large.jpg)

Thanks, guys. I've spent all evening detialign out the Elf Campus in the upper left of the image. Lots of that same leaf shadow brush here, along with a lot of other leafy brushes to detail out the foliage and its cast shadows. The biggest pain has been rounding out the tree/columns holding up the rooves. When I mocked them up in 3D, I created them as flats. But here I had to make them look like they were full, round trees and branches, not flat cut-outs.

Anyhow, that's where we are for now. Time to catch some shut-eye!

[Tranchefeux]

You provided in your work much search and of work of quality, I am in
a hurry to see painting final.

[guterrez]

great update mate, it`s cool to see how everything is coming together
can`t wait to see some colors ;)
cheers,
Mathias

[Thaldir]

This is magnificent, Walrus! the buildings are clear and detaliled, but stay definitely in the background, complementing the characters and enhancing the whole as they should. Great sense of depth, I'd like a lot to take a tour of the place.:thumbsup:

[Lc]

damn, it's stunning ! i'm sorry, but no crits ;) good luck for the rest !

[Anatomista]

Wow! I wish I was there. I see you are almost finishing up the details and going to colors! It definitely will look great and very realistic.

[Jassar]

You'r killin me Michael! and I'm not saying that to make you feel good :D

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190501791_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190501791_large.jpg)

Hi, all! Thank for the notes and kind words. I've finished the values, so things are about to get a lot more interesting (and a lot more colorful) really fast!

I made a lot more custom brushes, many of them from a recent trip to a nearby forest trail and some others just from shots taken of trees while driving in the car (don't worry, I was a passenger!) So a lot of the foliage detial you see in the background was done with foliage brushes I made from those pictures.

On top of that, I've drawn in a layer called Depth, which is exactly what it sounds like - a single layer which gets bluer as it goes off into the distance. Of course as it's a separate layer I can make it any color I want, but blue is always a good start!

More soon...

[cabertevon]

Go, go, go Michael.

[mdavid]

Wow! :thumbsup:

[Russel-Nash]

Simply amazing. :love:

[varma]

You got so much personality in your characters, amazing!
It's coming along very nicely!
:)

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190575587_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190575587_large.jpg)

I've done a few color tests already, but this is the one I like the most so far... I may post more later. Keep in mind, this is just a rough - even if I go with this, I'd likely tweak all the colors more, not give them all the exact same shade of skin, etcetera... Just trying to get a rough idea of where I'm heading.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190576465_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190576465_large.jpg)

My thumbnail didn't show up again, so I'm resubmitting this. No changes.

[Jassar]

Great update man! I did imagin I will see some purple or dark blue on the girl's cloths, but it's just my taste.

This thumbnail problem is driving me nuts by the way! can't we report it to someone?

[Thaldir]

Simply stunning, LOVE the light you have given to the scene.

[walrus]

Thaldir - Thanks! Coming from you that's a big compliment.

Jassar - I reported it in the FAQ Thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=223&t=508984), but Mibus said he hadn't seen it happening that often. Feel free to chime it there, maybe if enough people see the problem, if could help them track down the issue. :shrug:

[mdavid]

It looks spectacular Michael. The whole scene is looking very beautiful - full of wonderful detail and depth and atmosphere. I really like the idea of the characters wearing greens and browns - the colors of the forest - although I always imagined that the women wouldn't be able to resist wearing a bit more color

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190596969_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190596969_large.jpg)

Thanks, Mark. I really liked the browns and greens too... but after working with it for a while, decided to lean more towards the browns. Not that I don't like the greens - I love 'em - but the warmer colors pop more against the cool background. Maybe I'll make the girls' jewelery a bit more subtly flashy to compensate.

[Goro]

it's awesome to watch your progress walrus!

I think the sunlight could be a bit stronger...when I look at the image it's not so obvious
where the main lightsource is coming from. I'm not sure why. Maybe the cool light from the
left side is too strong or maybe you should use more saturated colors for the sunlight side and less contrast in the shadow areas. The ground is pretty bright and there is a lot of reflected light from the environment. I'm guess the shadows on the clothes wouldn't be that dark in this lighting situation.

The treeshadows in the foreground and background are really cool. Would be nice to see them on the characters as well.

I also like the browns better than the greens.
Keep it up!

[MROGER]

Waw, nice illustration, I like the colors tones and the characters's expressions :thumbsup:
Lot of details but all clearly visible, well done :applause:

[cabertevon]

Wow...Hats off!

Would that be nice to add a rainbow?

[Rockhoppermedia]

Michael, playing devils advocate I cant tell they are playing a boring dull rpg, i think the message may be lost in the colours of the characters. The brown palette I think should be brighter and more colourful especially on the females as they that would show a contrast of styles between the two groups.


Just playing devils advocate

Love what you done so far,

Rich

PS I wont do swooning nor omg omg type posts, as that doesnt help you.

[Thaldir]

LOL! No RPG is 'boring dull' to the players...

Natural colors for clothing are very 'traditional-elvish' (especially for the typical elf as seen in roleplaying games), if anything maybe some color / metallic accents here and there, but personally I think it works as well as it is.

[nwiz25]

mike .. your work is by far the most detailed .. colourful .. and very well planned .. not to mention .. filled with depth and personality! :p
awesome! simply awesome dude!


just one thing .. i think the shadows can be a little blue? mainly because of the sky illumination ...

all in all .. i simply love the earthy palette u picked .. wonderful combination of browns .. greens .. blues ..

waiting to see more! ;) cheers! :D

[NinjaA55N]

Hi michael! I wanted to point out something, but u corrected it with the color version.. the thing was, that u made those b/w shadows too contrast so the characters faces and folds looked plastic and unnatural. But since u soften those shapes again, now everything looks much much better :) The "big" guy in the front still has a bit strange perspective of his face though, while his left cheek looks quite flat and his right cheek is like a bubble. I would suggest to blow his front cheek a bit to get his face more round. I also very much like the color scheme u have chosen, especially the blue palette in the back, although some red spots here and there wouldnt hurt I think.. but u r still at the beggining of the coloring process so Im waiting to see which path will u choose :) great image already!

[Ordibble-Plop]

The colouring is really bringing your picture to life and giving it depth. That depth though seems to me to be pulling out some odd perspective on the ballustrade that I hadn't noticed before in the monotone. The patio area looks circularish because the arc on the balustrade comes back on itself on the left, but the change in the height of the ballustrade makes it look like the patio should be extended in the distance.

If you agree, maybe the easiest fix would be to lower the height of the balustrade beside the girls to around their hip level?

[am7]

Long time since last challenge walrus! But this is looking great as always! I really love your style, and it's so easy to recognize your work - you sure have developed your own unique way to work!

The only thing I could comment on right now, is that I might try to move thoose mountain-hills in the far distance more out to the right. So you'd lead the eye better to the girls. The moment I looked at the image It wasn't so clear to me, so I think if you move the mountains out to the right side of the screen, it will help you strengthen your focal point.

Keep going!

[BloodTaster]

wow! lot of details!! you received a great feedback here, and I just will watch your progress
amazing job so far!:eek:

[walrus]

Wow, what a lot of feedback! I filled up a half a page of paper with everyone's notes and suggestions... Guess I have my work cut out for me! Thanks everyone for the great posts, whether they were in the form of suggestions for improvement or just plain "swooning [and] omg omg type posts," as Rich put it. :) I'm not complaining, mind you, enthusiastic encouragement is always welcome. But so are good crits, so thanks for all of them. I have them all down so I will get to each one... meaning I will at least consider them and see if they work. Except for Ordibble's, which I really didn't get... Sorry! :shrug: I can assure you that I modeled the entire railing in 3D so as to get the perspective and curve correct on it, and a 3D program wouldn't lie, would it?

Well, anyhow, I've got a couple of hours tongiht. The wife is out, and the baby is finally asleep, so it's back to wrok on the recommendations! Catch you all soon...

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190702168_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190702168_large.jpg)

Oh, and here are tonight's changes - a lot more subtle color all around, like in all of the characters' skin and faces, the girls' jewelry, the game-board added in, more sunshiny effects on the right and more leaf shadows on the characters there, all sorts of little things like that. I haven't got to all the fixes yet, but it's a start!

[Goro]

yeah michael! That's what I'm talking about! Looks awesome!

[Art2]

Wow looking great already!

[mdavid]

Yes! Looks excellent. Subtle changes sure, but they really enhance it :thumbsup:

[paulwdavidson]

Excellent..................spiffing old chap!

I want to live in that world :)

Paul

[tastatura]

the last progress made add some very nice little things, but there is one thing hat gets my eye, and that is the skin color, they look more brown like, hey there are different colored elf's in rpg world, i'm just more used to the pale, clean white face :shrug: i think that some1 had mentioned these in the previus posts but some metal details would be nice leather-metal nice combination for the elf's...
..The floor texture somehow fade out, i like it very much so more bump like look might improve the flat look of what its suppose to be some stonecut floor....
...about the lightning, deffinitly buff the sunlight to get that nice saturation graduation look :) maybe its just me, but the bounce light feels kind a strange "out of place" esspecialy on the chair :D my personal opinion without that light just in shadow, would be better for the viewer to read the illustration and have nice eye traveling along it.

the background is wonderfall mike :thumbsup: i realy dig it, with nice cool lightning.
man these turned out to be a long post, k no more...last words from me its a wonderfull progress and spectacular illustration, hoep you will find time to get it done on time !
i realy like it :love:

[SteevieWoo]

Oh boy, the background detail is neat! I feel like the pretty floor pattern got a bit lost, what if you colorize some of the segments like the swirls or the middle row as if they are from another kind of stone? Now,maybe that would work against the leaf shadows effect, I don't know, but I just wanted to mention it ...

Going great:thumbsup: such a cozy place............

[walrus]

Wow, people are really pushing to see more of that floor details! Well, thanks, I guess. I'm glad folks think the floor detail is really nice. No offence, I mean, I like it too, but it just doesn't strike me as all that important in the grand scheme of things. It's just some detail to keep it from being a plan flat floor, a visual motif to help tie the piece together into the feeling of an elf campus. It's not really that important to justify it calling too much attention to itself.

As for the other notes - metal details I'll get to. I haven't even really started painting yet: This is just the result of my combining the values with the blocked in colors I posed earlier. Now is when I really go in with the brush and start detailing stuff... including the metal bits, I promise! :) And someon on another forum pointed out that I forgot to color the waterfalls in the background white... oops! I'll get to that...

Tastatura - By "bounce light," are you referring to the blue light coming in from the left? I don't known if that's bounced light or not - I just like having a second light source to round things out a bit. I thought the blue just looked cool, but what do other folks think? Yea or Nay on the blue left light?

And to go back to Rockhoppermedia's note from a ways back, I have to argee with Thaldir on this one: No one plays an RPG and expects or wants it to be dull. The whole point of any role-plating game is that it's supposed to be exciting, otherwise why play? Sure, they're playing a game with offices and weird humans and their laptops and briefcases and donuts... but for these elves, that could exciting! (And even in OUR world, I've seen fun games made out of such diverse topics as nerds cohabiting (Chez Geek) and patenting inventions (US Patent #0001.) If someone can make those topics fun and exciting in a game, surely our Elves game can be a thrill too!) Or maybe these things don't wokr as a game at all, and you may find elves having a thrilling time playing such a game to be strange behavior... :D

[guterrez]

great update walrus, it`s really nice to see this growing and living
I like your colorwork alot, the background is awesome
I know you aren`t finished now but a aome bigger color variations would be nice, especially for skin tones and clothing
cheers,
Mathias

[tastatura]

forgot to mention in the previus topic, but i think i should say it now....the foliage is perfect, way to go mike ! :applause:
yes i'm reffering to the blue (second light source)
and just to state that the RPG games are very EXCITING i play them personnaly and they have a lot of entertaiment in them, so do have other board games that are set in medival or modern time, they all have a competitiv and fun spirit in them thats why pepole play them.
So i don;t know if someone thinks that they are dull....well :rolleyes:

[Sovica]

I like the way the colors are turning out!

... but I have some thoughts... I think the left girl should have black hair insted of white (if that goes with your concept). She looks a bit nasty and it would suit her. And, Agrolas, I think - the one with the dice- it would suit him to be a red-head, because he looks a bit mad and it goes together.


I can't wait for you to finish this one!

[Rockhoppermedia]

Michael,



knuckles well and truly rapped. I do however like the autumnal palette (fall for the septics out there)



Rich

PS are we still friends?:sad:

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190823109_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190823109_large.jpg)

Rich - Of course, don't be silly! Just because I don't always agree with everyone's ideas doesn't mean I hold anything against anyone for suggesting any ideas. On the contrary, I'm always quite happy that anyone takes any time to give any feedback. (So long as it's done politely!) I just didn't happen to agree with that one.

Sovica - Wonderful suggestions, as you can see from this post! I actually always planned on making Gotuel (on the left) have black hair and Aloriel (center) have whitish blonde... but when I did that, then Aloriel faded agains tthe background and Gotuel stuck out more. so then I swapped the hair colors, more or less. But it's not like there isn't room for more than one brunette, as you can see in today's image.

As for Aggrolas, I actually never even considered him a redhead until you suggested it. And Blaz did suggest adding more reds to the scene! I especially like his his newly-red hair works with the other colors around the table, especially Beliobir's over-jerkin. Anyhow, great ideas...

And I added that waterfall in, too, though I still need to put more work into it. But it's better...!

[Jassar]

Hi Mike, great updates man, you simply rock :buttrock:

Another thing, I think the girl in the far right looks better in green clothes, nothing seriuos of course.

Cheers.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190902842_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1190902842_large.jpg)

Hey, Blaz, was this what you were talking about with Beliobir's cheek? Let me know if I got it right! :)

[Jakyll]

Wow! On the end of the contest i take the highest version of your final an go to the copy shop. Let print a big wallpaper of it. For the room i work. And at the end I make my own signature under it. Everybody loves me. And i am the big pimp in my family and in my Skat-Runde.
(Only a joke )

Wonderful work. :applause:

[walrus]

Um, well, thanks, i think...?

Anyhow, I am leaving tongiht for a week and a half's vacation on the east coast of the U.S., New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Washington D.C. I'll be back in a week and a half, at which point I'll have to work like a madman to finish up this peice by the deadline. That'll be fun... Have fun while I'm gone, everyone, catch you in a bit. Good luck with all of your own entries!

-mike

[lotaH]

Hey man...!!! Very Great!

I am in that image… :D

RPG forever....!!!

[]'s
Diego

[r1-381]

your style is out of sight. i would love to see an animated cartoon of these guys.

[nwiz25]

surely one of my favs! :eek: :p amazing details all the way! :applause:

[ashiataka]

Hi walrus, Following the great progress was and still cheerful. By the way details are really superb. Cheers!

[badoero]

Great concept ! I could stay hours admiring your details !

[guterrez]

hey mike, you`ve done a great job so far, I love how much attention you pay to the tabletop game, especially the little figurines
keep it up

[olive2d]

Wow Michael! beautifull colors and toonish style as usual...great work
As you do for the "Journey Begins" Challenge...really nice
I really like your style.

[Korendo]

Greetings Michael,



Belated congratulations on the lovely baby! Love your work, really informative to see your drawings and work evolve. Wonderfully rendered and rich with human insight, subtle human/elf gender dynamics are engaged as the push and pull of emotional callings interact with social norms and pressures communicated by admiring glances. I wonder if “thought balloons” could be employed to add an additional layer of ambiguity, they would be discordant to the established context. For example, over the male admirer’s head a thought balloons indicating he is really wishing he could fly (boy in silly bird suit flying) and the girls thought balloon depicts her in a beauty salon cutting the hair of the heavy guy and him smiling, she wants to be a beautician. The thought balloon of cupid in the background has a dark cloud, as the two do not fit the expected. Please forgive my delirious cartoonie mumblings.



Your work is truly a joy. And your insights that you share with others are a great asset to this community.

[OKMER]

Korendo:
Your work is truly a joy. And your insights that you share with others are a great asset to this community.
Totaly agree man!So great to see your work evolve, and the way you explain and advice things!:bowdown:
Cheers!
:beer:
:beer:

[Hiun]

This has really developed into a beautiful image. Love it!:bounce: Super job Michael!

[NinjaA55N]

hi Michael! Im sorry it took me so long to reply, but it was a deadly week. So, I made 2 paintovers over ur latest submission, to show u my point of view about his face. I still think it is a bit out of proportions so here r my two suggestions...

On the left I reduced the (viewers) left side of the cheek, so it maches to the right side which is more flat.

On the right example I changed (viewers) right side, bent his side-whiskers so it looks more full and round.

Im sorry if Im confusing u with my english, so here is an image :) best regards!

http://www.3delavnica.com/@upload/Ninja_ASSN/walrus_sb_overpainted.jpg

[tastatura]

Personaly i like the seond image with corected side-whiskers, it looks more natural...to me at least, good points NinjaA55N :thumbsup:

[Hideyoshi]

Aw, man, need to give you some praise here. The image is coming along marvelously, as expected from you! All the hard work you always put in, definitely pays off!
The final will kick some serious arse...! Well, it already does of course!
Sorry, no constructive crits from me... :/

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192000006_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192000006_large.jpg)

Hi, all! I'm back from vacation, and now it's time to make a mad dash to the finish... It's going to be tight! Work is incredibly busy, so it's going to be a lot of late nights. I probably won't have as much time to give feedback to others, but I'll do my best.

Briefly:
Blaz, thanks for the paint-over! No worries about being "late," for as you can see, I haven't been around either! I see where you're going with the images: I either need to push that face more side view or more front view. I like your second image, but it makes his mutton-chops look so small. I went that direction, but kept curling the sideburns back around onto his face... oh well!

Korendo - interesting idea, but Telling you explicitly would take all the fun and work out of it. And adding thought balloons might make it too comic-booky. I would rather leave it to you (and other viewers) to imagine what's going on in their heads, without having to say any particular thought is correct or incorrect.

Anyhow, spend some time tonight tidying up the characters and details: Fixing some shadows, adding lights and shade from the trees on the bottom, adding Tengwar numbers on the dice. I still need details on the player sheets and Game Master screen, and some more swirly decorations for the clothes, but at least I'm slowly getting somewhere...

[Folarx]

Great job, Walrus.
This picture is amazing, and I would buy a print of right now.
But I think the angle of the (pretty awesome) goblet on the table is wrong. As far as I understand it, the viewer's eye is about in line with the copperelves (Aggruel?) fist, right? But the view on the goblet is in an angle to acute compared to the table's angle. It looks like it should be 50cm higher.


(Please excuse my grammatical errors if I committed any - never spoke about geometry in English before...)

[Ramitxon]

I have to agree on the goblet viewpoint. Apart from that I would take it for finished, You have a fantastic image, so rich in details, love your color palette too.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192171255_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192171255_large.jpg)

Caoineadh - Thanks for the observation about the Coca-Cola chalice. You're right, so I fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.

Ramón - Thanks! That's kind of you to say, but I have a LOT of details to add at this point... Small stuff all over the place that needs to be refined and detailed.

Case in point, here's the latest version: Lots of really picky small stuff added, like clouds and fog in the far background, more detailing on all of the characters, a faint wood-grain on the table, actual details and charts and graphs on the Game-Master's screen (don't worry if you can read them at this size, they're all in Tengwar (elf-language) anyhow.) All sorts of little stuff like that, and miles to go before I finish. But it's getting there...!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192171437_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192171437_large.jpg)

Caoineadh - Thanks for the observation about the Coca-Cola chalice. You're right, so I fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.

Ramón - Thanks! That's kind of you to say, but I have a LOT of details to add at this point... Small stuff all over the place that needs to be refined and detailed.

Case in point, here's the latest version: Lots of really picky small stuff added, like clouds and fog in the far background, more detailing on all of the characters, a faint wood-grain on the table, actual details and charts and graphs on the Game-Master's screen (don't worry if you can read them at this size, they're all in Tengwar (elf-language) anyhow.) All sorts of little stuff like that, and miles to go before I finish. But it's getting there...!

[tastatura]

just to drop a word....Mike is back in the game !
its wonderfull mate i know you can make it :thumbsup:

[Rockhoppermedia]

Mike,

This is getting better and better, really enjoying this thread. I hope you enjoyed your holiday

your friend

Rich

[UldFerr]

Hey Michael,
Your piece looks amazing!!! All those rich earthy tones against the cool background, it’s just… amazing.
If you don’t mind, I would like to point out one thing. Actually, I am not sure, this might be your style, but I think some things are a little too “stiff“; things like they hair and the standing guy’s clothes, specially next to some other things that are really flowing graciously and smooth. I hope this make sense for you.

[Matellis]

Hey Michael! haha great painting you have here. amazing detail all around.

Keep up the great work!

Cheers

[guterrez]

this is getting a really lovely scene, great update and awesome work on the background
the foreground could have a bit darker contrasts but I guess this final tweaking will be done in the end of the process
I have to agree with Ninja about the guys face, especially the cheek
at least I can only say I`m happy I changed my concept, would have been hard to top this ;)
cheers,
Mathias

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192327741_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192327741_large.jpg)

I had some time this morning to add some more details to the background to bring it to life more: More hilights and glow to the buildings and gazebos (the roofs of which were influenced by Thai temple architecture, a suggestion from Thaldir (thanks again, buddy!)) And I added a bunch of people hanging out there too. I just spend the last two hours painting the roots and rock patterns on the cliff-sides both above and below the campus. It might be more detail than what was needed but oh, well! :)

UldFerr - Maybe I've been looking at it too long (i.e. almost 4 months!) but I'm not seeing what you're seeing with the stiff clothes and hair, especially on Aggrolas. Could you be more specific, I'm not getting it... sorry!

Mathias - I made some changes to Beliobir's cheeks, but if you're still thinking it could be better, I'm not quite getting that either. Do you mean I should move his screen-left cheek and side of the face more to the right? Sorry I'm so obtuse: Again, maybe I've just been looking at it too long! Also, I'm glad you changed your theme too: Your piece if coming out fantastically!

Well, that's enough obtuseness for one day - now back to all the things I CAN see to fix! :D One last note to whoever's still following along: I'm still tcompletely lost to come up with a name for this piece and haven't a clue. It needs one for the end of the challenge... Anyone got any ideas?

[SteevieWoo]

Hi Mike!, Working hard uh? so how much you'd say you have done? Like 80%, more or less?

I ask because is hard to follow you enormous thread, and I could make the mistake of whining about things that are not final yet, or you already considered to change ,or have been discussed already.... That would be a shame.....
Anyways, if I see something fishy on this it would maybe be the color of the farther right girl's clothes and hair, she happens to be the blonde one and her shirt is amber yellow,there's a lack of contrast , I feel like somehow that causes her face features to be a little lost if you compare her with the other two, whose faces stand up so well against their hair.. you could try a hair color similar to that of Aggrolas, or if you like her a blonde maybe another shirt color would work too....
what about pink?

HAHA! naah just kidding, I know these elves are not into that kind of colors, She would be seen from miles away and get speared by a troll.......

Great stuff as always, I really like those roots in the background, I think that's two hours well spent:thumbsup:

[mdavid]

All that effort is producing the results Mike. It's looking superb. As for a name, I always saw this entry as being about game-playing on multiple levels: the game taking place on the table and the arguably more-complex social games and dynamics going on between the characters. Perhaps something like Elfish Games

[Rockhoppermedia]

Or "good elf to my friends"


Rich

[guterrez]

hey Michael, I hope I can explain what I mean properly^^
the upper end of his screen-left cheek is too round; if the right cheek would be like the left you couldn`t see the lower eyelid because the upper end of the round cheek would cover it
so right now the two cheeks read a bit different in "roundness"
also the screen-left cheek tangents the left arm
the sideburns look cool, the make the form of the face visible
cheers,
Mathias

[gpepper]

Excellent I love it !
I missed this thread but I don't know how !
Great job Michael !

[Kei-Acedera]

Looking really great Michael! The detail is coming along really nicely!

[walrus]

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I've had the chance to do a bit more word today - additiaonal decoration on all of the clothing, and someone pointed out that there are foliage shadows on the rooves even where there's no leaves between the sun and the buildings... ooops! Can't post the latest work right now, but you'll get to see it soon.

Gabriel - 80%?!? Ouch! I was thinking I was closer to 95% done! :) You'll have to let me know what that other 15% of this piece that I'm missing is! As for the girl on the right (Nosindier,) I'm not sure I want to make that large a part of the picture pink, but I will try some darker hair and see how that looks.

Mark and Rich - Thanks for he title suggestions! Mark, I think yours comes closest to boiling down what this peice is all about... However, last night my wife Talia and I did some brainstormign on titles ourselves and came up with the perfect one. I'm going to leave you in suspence for another week or so 'til I'm done (bwa ha ha ha haaa!) but you'll like when you hear it: It hits the same point you were talking about, Mark, just differently.

Mathias - Thanks for taking the time to explain more thoroughly, i really appreciate it. I'll work on those cheeks more, then.

GPepper - Thanks! It's okay, there are a lot of threads to keep up with, and it's easy to miss some of them. Glad you made it by.

Kei - Thanks! I hope your presence means that you're also back to work on your own entry. Not a lot fo time left, but I hope you finish it, it was looking great last Ilooked. (Unless you alreqady completed it and i just missed it, like gpepper above was saying.)

[UldFerr]

Hi Michael, I will try clarifying my comment, but you have to hang in there and be patient with my broken English.
So, Aggrolla’s jacket has a triangular shape that gives me that “stiff feel” I told you before. In addition, for the hair I would point the chunky guy and the girl with the bow. See how they hair create straight lines on the bottom?
So that is it. I hope this can be of some use. Good Luck.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192516601_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192516601_large.jpg)

You mean like this, UldFerr? I'd been meaning to get to "mussing up" the ends of their hair, thanks for clarifying and pointing it out. As for the triangular part of Aggrolas' outfit, sorry, I just like it. But at least it's more decorated now! :)

Guterrez - I get what you're saying, thanks for the clarification. Going back to Blaz's paint-over helped too. Better now?

So what else is new: More decorations on all of the outfits, some fixes on the buildings, some more detail in the stones on the ground ('though I still plan to add moss and fallen leaves onto the ground too.) I'm actually running out of things to fix, so i probably am getting towards the end (whew!) - Anyone see other things to call out?

[Goro]

Hey Michael! It's coming along nice!
Details are great!

[guterrez]

the face looks symetric now, good job
I really dig your lightning, it`s really a lovely scene
but if you want to add stoff on the floor I think you should be carefull not to make it too messy; right now the shadows of the leaves on the ground are very important
when you add moss and fallen leaves I`d probably reduce the darkness of the shadow there or make it more blurry
I`m sure you find a solution, very good job and good luck on the very last finishing

[plasteredcat]

Hahaha... :scream:excellent topic of choice (I wonder if they're playing simple human roles), great rendering and lovely characters. Brilliant management of hue armonies for both fore and background, it works fantastic.
Apologies in return, mate, I missed this brilliant piece among the threads...

[walrus]

You too, Raul? How funny - it's a shame we missed each other's threads, I think we have a lot in common artistically. But to answer your curiousity, yes, they are playing human roles. They're playing a game of humans in offices with laptops and briefcases and donuts... The map Beliobir's placing the figurings on is that of a human office with desks and a conference room. I'll have to post another detail shot soon.

guterrez - Thanks for pushing me on that, it helped! As for the moss and leaves on the floor, don't worry, I'll be careful! I won't make it too noisy, it just needs to look a bit more lived in and aged, not like someone's polishing and sweeping the floor every five minutes. But you're right, there's already a lot of noise on the right... Maybe I'll concentrate more of the moss and leaves on the left where it's more flat and bland right now.

goro - Thanks! Yours, too!

[SteevieWoo]

Ah don't worry walrus pal, I said 80% just like that, is not that I was making an estimation at all, and the issues I was referring to was about colors , Like the one I mentioned.
Oh, and once again..... I was just kidding about pink, :D that'd be like spilling coffe on a nice blank page.


But seriously now, here's other one I forgot about last time... Noidal's dice bag , I didn't notice it well until I clicked for the zoom version, Maybe it is too dark or maybe it is just the "brown bag over brown table" thing, what about pink?................



Ha!, just kidding again.......:D I think it could be even gray. no big deal.

Congratulations Mike, this is going really sweet!

[zweiDee]

freaking great work michael. very nice progress, very profesionell. for me is this your best work. so many lovely details and a wonderfull design. I feel this work, I hear the laughting of the guys, the waterfall and the campus. I smell the air and so on. I think you know what I mean.^^ You create a wonderfull world, all the best for this challange.
lovely greets to you and your family. bye

[plasteredcat]

I know it's a pain in the a** stretching canvas sizes at this point, mate, but I think the whole comp would benefit on some more space in the left, maybe??? It's just it looks slightly stuck there to the left margin, I think...

[Jassar]

Oh! the new updates are finally showing up.... there has been an error in the last few days and I was unable to view them.

Great progress man! I love it :love:

[icedeyes]

I have been away for too long but your work is really looking great Michael... love the color pallete and the warm feeling of the whole piece... great work man

[DougFerreira]

this is a great thread to follow!All the details and the color scheme is really nice!Best wishes and good luck!

[SteevieWoo]

Hey, about the title, I know I'm late for this but I had to post it...........
How bout "There's nothing between guy's pointy ears" .....It's like a hear the blonde girl saying that... I mean.. she's the one talking and even her posture looks that way too:D:D:D

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192775635_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192775635_large.jpg)

Hi, all. Not a lot of time right now to respond to everyones' notes, but it's pretty late. Thank you all for stopping by and posting. I've spent the last couple of days working on a lot of details on the floor... Someone way back when (sorry I forget who, but it's too late in the evening to go digging for it!) had commented on how all of the floor tiles felt flat an got lost, so I weathered them all a bunch, added moss inbetween them, a light coat of lichen, and even a few fallen leaves (but more on the left side, not in this close-up.) And on top of that a ton of other small changes, which I'll detail more at some other point. It's getting pretty close to done... and just in time.

one note, though:
Haratche - I completely agree with you... especially on the point about what a pain it would be to extend the canvas! :) I don't think it needs it, though: It's an asymmetrical composition, I think it's all right if some of the characters are closer to the margins that others. But thanks for the thought.

[Smik]

Walrus, it's all very nice and interesting wip!!! The scene have unrealistic life with really characters, and on the contrary.It's mystery, when need more episodes. I see and have this episode in my mind, that's good!

[Zazill8]

eXCELLENT stuff.. .. keep going man .. looks great :)

[Art2]

The level of detail is amazing.
Really great job on the shadows casted by the leafs and trees.

[Ferx]

Hey Mike, that is simply awesome!! I love all the wonderful play between light and shadows on the scene, superb!
I think the composition its guided by the eyes of Aloriel and the nerdy elf ( I dont remember his name :D ), i´m feel that i´m playing on the table participating in the scene and like a lot that sensation in your concept, great!!! ( a feeling forgotten from highschool times :D )

The floor work is amazing, great details!! (are you detailing the floor in the smart object??)

Again, awesome and superb work Mike !! Cheers mate !! :beer:

[guterrez]

hey Mike, looks like you`ve 99% finished yet^^
the floor looks great now, you`ve done a great job on it
I also think that this is one of your best pieces; it`s great to see how everyone pushes himself to higher standards with this contest
cheers

[Rianti-Wong]

Wow..i love the color and the details...keep up the goodwork.
Very nice atmosphere.

Regards,

[paulwdavidson]

Bravo!

Not easy to achieve.

Paul

[Lc]

this is really impressive walrus !
I 'm very stunning about all the details you can put on a single picture, that's awesome.
I spent some time looking your picture and try to see if there were some things to improve/change. And I was just wondering by looking at the table. I think it would be better to see legs of your characters under it. because we only see the dark ground. We should see the legs of the two characters (the one who is up, and the second one who's ready a book).
That's the only thing I can say, unless it is wanted. But by looking the proportions, i think it would be great ;)

good luck, the rest is perfect !

[walrus]

Wow, I just go to sleep and then come back in the morning and there are all these posts... Cool! Thanks, everyone! I'm glad everyone's liking how it's coming as I'm down to polishing the last details. At this point I can count the necessary fixes on one hand, so it's close... But as you see stuff, feel free to call it out. Cyril, I think that's a very good point about seeing more under the table... I'll get to that.

Ferx - Very observant.... Yes, I did use Smart Objects to make the floor! Here's how the floor looked before I distorted it into place:

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1186026993_large.jpg

I used Smart Objects to duplicate all of the shapes and especially the leaves in the tile - note that the leaves are not in a repeating pattern but different every step of the way (ha ha, get it? Step? Walkway? :P ) But after designing the walkway and warping it into place, I haven't used any Smart Objects - all of the detailing you see in this last post is just by hand.

Guterrez - Thanks so much! Although in a lt of cases, I think it's not the Challenge itself that pushes people to do better, it's the amount of feedback that we get from our peers that helps most.... This Challenge just being a perticularly good place for that. So thanks, everyone, for all the feedback. As for it being my best piece....Thanks! I like it too, and am extremely happy with every single one of the characters and the whole setting... but I still like all of the humour in Wage Slave the most. The humor in this piece is pretty darned subtle.... unless you happen to read Tengwar. :shrug:

[Kei-Acedera]

Geeez look at all that detail!! Just wonderful Michael--your characters are so cute and your painting style makes it even better. Also very nice linework!

[Ferx]

Hey Mike, really great use of smart objects. Yes, you achive a beuatiful pattern with a great little differences on it, really cool.
I make some tests with patterns on smart objects, and when add some details (details mainly large) I have distorsions on the warped texture ( like in a UV map - and more evident on spherical and cylindrical warps than flat warps), and now i know you take a nice decision detailing the rasterized floor :) And again, superb texture and shadows on the floor !! Thanks for the great tip on smart objects Cheers mate !! :beer:

[mdavid]

Hey Mike, I haven't been leaving comments because there's nothing constructive I can add here, but I'm another one who thinks this is your best work so far. You're so close to finishing it now - you've timed it well. Keep going buddy

[NinjaA55N]

awesome! These new details bring the image to the next level. I read something about messy spots on the right side of the floor. It is a bit confusing with all those spots but I think u can correct that very simple.. or at least from my point of view :) Im not sure which part of the year is this placed in, but if u put some (not many) "bigger" (not too big) brown-orange tree leaves on the ground, u would connect the image as a whole in terms of color scheme. I said bigger coz if u will place lots of small spots it could came out worse. But with 3-4 bigger ones would I think help to break that spot pattern thats going on right now if u look it from a distance. Damn... I hope u know what Im talking about :D

[yoff]

Wow so much progress! I guess I have been away for a while (well had to hand in a dissertaion and move to another country). The only thing I see right now is that adjacent stems of the railing seem to go through each other rather than curling around, suggesting something crafted (and cut) rather than grown. Maybe that is your intention, but I feel the living growing railing is more in line with Elves and the fact that you can see roots on the stems. Anyway excellent work, are there going to be birds in the background?

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192933481_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1192933481_large.jpg)

Blaz - I think(?) I understand what you're saying, but I'm really not thinking the floor looks so bad that it needs any additions of more fallen leaves on it. I think the floor looks great, even with all of the dappled light, fallen leaves, moss, lichen, and cracked tiles. I'm not clear on how more leaves would make it better, but at least I'm quite happy with it with all fo the recent additions.

Yoff - Thanks for the notes! I'd been undecided for a while whether the ballustrade was alive or merely carved, but your post pushed me over into the "alive" decision: I not only fixed what you suggested, but I repainted all of the leaves on the railing and chairs to make them green. A subtle alteration, but one that makes them more look like they're growing. And I had some birds in the picture already - down by the base of the waterfall - but as they obviously weren't visible, I added some more clearly in the sky.

Other big changes: Aloriels' (center girl) wristbands had always been bugging me so I redesigned them. I also wasn't happy with the details on the goblet on the table, so I repainted them too. I added rings to Nosindier and several small details to the rest of her jewelery. Aggrolas (standing, red hair) got a face full 'o acne, because you can't have a gaggle of RPGers without someone having zits: This painting is all about the stereotypes, and I didn't want to let anyone down! :P

The biggest change is the vounced light: a lot of blue reflected from the background on the girls and the railing, and some greens and yellows from the ground bounced up as well. It really ties them into the background so they look less pasted on top of it.

And that's it. I have a solid page of notes that people have suggested, or that have been bugging me, or were just random ideas. There is a line through every single entry on the page: I've run out of things to fix. So I leave the rest all to you: Anything you can see that I should touch? I've still got a week left... hit me with the picky details now before I submit final. And if no one else has anything... I'm done!
But let me know...

[BloodTaster]

Congratulations Michael, fantastic piece! The details are truly amazing.

[SteevieWoo]

hey Mike, good to take a rest and see the sights uh? I envy you :shrug:

just here to let you know as you asked.... I'll say you're done. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I got a question...... is it just me or is Aggrolas frekcled? seeing the zoomed image I just think I see little dots on his cheeks... you know, just curious.............

[SteevieWoo]

oh I get it zits!! haven't read that yet, sorry......

Anyway good to know I wasn't seeing things....

Now this is embarrasing (I just told you I saw it done..) but I found a little hit for you...

Funny.... Again Gotuel's forehead.. I see you added a nice blue light to the right too, and it works great on the girls, but Gotuel's forehead happen to have similar levels of saturation and light than the blue shine, so the mix looks a bit unnatural, I think that if you turn the image to grayscale there would be no way to tell the two colors appart. a slight darker area between the two colors would make it look more natural and, again, a bit more round:)

Maybe other parts could use some of that, like the blonde girl's leg, but at this file size I see no trouble there....
Now you're done, Mike. Sweet dreams.:thumbsup:

[graphicgolem]

Great idea and exceptional execution. I cant offer any useful cc just congratulations!

[ShulChi]

Hey Michael,

your picure is coming along great! :) It's really great to see how your work progresses through your and viewers ideas and comments :thumbsup:.

Some minor details i noticed about the left girl (i think she's Gotuel):
- her bow string looks wrong. It should be on the inside rather on the outside of her arm since this way you can't really shoot with it.
- she's missing arrows!! Give the girl some arrows!!! :scream:

Regarding the shadows in the right lower part i agree with Blaz. Maybe adding some light falling leaves just to give the association. The only thing that's bugging me are the shadows on girls' legs. i think the spots are too hard for being shadows. As hard as they are now, the tree leaf would have to be much closer to give that kind of shadow and should be seen in the picture. Make the shadows more blurry to indicate that the tree branch is further away.

my 0.02$ :D
Looking really forward to the final piece :buttrock:

[walrus]

Thanks for the notes, folks. Nice to know what's left to do.

Gabriel - Thanks for the note on the hilights. I'll look at it tonight... I hope I understood what you were getting at. And yes, I've added some zits to Aggrolas' face. I'll post a close-up soon.

ShulChi - Thanks for the note on the bow. I'm glad someone around here knows the proper way to hold a bow, as I obviously don't! As for the bows, maybe she's just coming from archery class (this is a school scene after all.) I don't know, maybe I'll add them in... Good points on the blurriness of the lef shadows on the legs. As for more fallen leaves in teh corner, it's already pretty busy down there, and it's not like you and everyone else didn't figure out that they were shadows from foliage. But I'll drop a few in and see how they look... Thanks!

I also want to take down the blue light on Beliobir's (the chubby one's) hair forelock, and maybe add some more shine so more of the metallic elements. Hopefully I can finish this all up tonight!

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193124932_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193124932_large.jpg)

Here's a detail of the guys from the finished painting: Noïdal, Aggrolas, Normiel, and Beliobir. Plus you can see the elf campus in the background.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193125056_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193125056_large.jpg)

...And here's a close-up of the gals, Gotuel, Aloriel, and Nosindier, as well as the mountains in the background.

[walrus]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193126340_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/19/12635/12635_1193126340_large.jpg)

Once you're doing an illustration of teenagers, even Elvish ones, pretty much anything you depict could be considered "strange behavior!" There are certainly a number of strange behaviors to choose from in this picture: With an entire, lush fantasy world to explore, why are the guys content to sit around a table playing make-believe? And why are they playing a game of humans in offices? Does Aloriel actually find Normiel kind of cute? And does he believe he has a snowball's chance in Mordor with her? And most people consider folks who sit around playing escapist fantasy games pretty strange anyhow, right?

For me, the strangest behavior of all is the act of looking down on others, just because they have different interests, or different ways of interacting with their friends and with society than you may. The girls on the right are pretty full of themselves to think that the guys are worthy of scorn just because they spend their time role playing. Do their interests and priorities really make them that much better? They think so... Strange behavior, indeed!

Anyhow, I'd like to thank every single person who dropped by and lent their words of encouragement and advice. I have endeavored to heed as much of it as I could, and if I didn't, it may be merely because of obtuseness on my part, an inability to understand what you were getting at... Sorry, I did my best! And in the end, I think I acted on almost everything that was proposed, or at least considered it.

Special thanks (again) to Thaldir for suggesting that the Elvish buildings be based on Thai temple architecture, and to Harris-ejaz and DigitalMonkey and PaLantir and Kory for suggesting that the game that they're playing be some sort of human real-world (for us) RPG, which is why they're playing "Bureaucrat & Boardrooms," or whatever it is. And extra special thanks to my wife Talia, who is always an exceptionally thorough critic, but also for not only not minding my working on (obsessing over) this piece but insisting that I finish it.

It's been another fun Challenge, folks. Thanks for helping to make it so!

[medunecer]

Absolutely amazing illustration!

[Ferx]

Hey Mike, really awesome and superb illustration!! I love the wonderful enviroment for the scene and the way that you guide the viewer with the lenguage of the elvish eyes. The lighting puts a beuatiful atmosphere on the whole composition, really great!. For me, your concept is evocative, like i say before viewing your image I have again the nice feeling of the highschool times, and I totally agree with you about the teenagers strange behavior :D

And sincerly thanks for share your incredible workflow and some tips like the smart objects, a great journey !! It was an honor to have witnessed the entire evolution of your concept.

Congratulations Mike for this awesome artwork and best of luck mate!! ..... and now...... time for a really well deserved cold beers and extra big tequila bottle!! Cheers Mike !! :beer:

[Peter-Eriksson]

Great entry! Like your style and idea a lot!
7-days left you can make it for sure!
Rock on!
/peter

[Jassar]

Congrats Mike! yet another work from the master :D

[walrus]

Thanks folks! I was a little worried that I'd log on after uploading these all at 1am and find a whole laundry list of new things to fix... Whew! (It still may happen though! :) )

medunecer - Thanks, good luck finishing your entry too!

Ferx - "A nice feeling of high school times?" There's a phrase I don't hear very often! But I understand you too, as this piece very much takes me back to high school too. THanks for being around for the whole thing!

coolkonrad - "7-days left you can make it for sure"? Yep, I think I can manage to upload one TIF file in that amount of time! :) Thanks, and glad you like it!

Jassar - Thank you very much!

[zweiDee]

WOW! Michael this is perfect. For me your best work, so many nice details i see not allday in a painted work. Was a wonderfull time to watch your profesionell progress. Good look for the Jury. Best regards to you and your Familiy. Cheerz

[yoff]

Uh..sorry to hit you with this one, but I guess you can just ignore it...or tell me my eyes are betraying me. But it seems that Aggrolas' "collar" (the triangular piece of clothing hanging over his shoulders) is asymmetrical. There seems to be alot more cloth to his right than to his left. It covers half his right forearm but only his left shoulder. It may just be a consequenco of how the cloth folds but the part on his right shoulder hardly seems to fold at all (whereas the other side actually folds quite a bit).

I am sorry that I did not comment on this in an earlier scetch...