Who wants Video & Online Training??

[TimWoods]

what would you offer over a free service like buzz? they already have course running online.
you will have to convince people to pay out for it, seems risky.
just a thought.

:shrug:

[PeteDraper]

I'd say the difference would be the length of the projects. Not just working through the software, explaining which part does what, but a large full on project. I daresay that there will be some comparisons between this and buzz's but the main difference would be the fact that this would be a dedicated service to a set number of people for the duration of the class. As a tutor I'd be on call every day to guide them through any problems they encounter in the lessons and to give advice throughout the courses. Plus there will be offers and the odd reward for coming out on top :) . These courses aren't aimed at the beginner as there's tons of resources out there for them (in the form of tutorials, videos etc) but are aimed at the intermediate to advanced user who needs to refine and improve their skills in a specific area.

generally, the classes would be broken down into:

Lighting (pretty much the most intensive course)
Particles (ie how to blow stuff up nicely)
Modelling
Animation
Scene Construction and composition
Advanced Materials

etc

[Tex3D]

Personally, I'd be down with the step by step approach.

A forum board and regular emailing/ WIP stuff would be good for me and I'm sure others.

I hate it when I spend $50 on a book and the tutorials are missing that ONE piece fo info I need to get to the next step. I never know if it's me missing something or if the info is just NOT there. A interactive approach would be cool.

Believe it or not, I actually dig the idea of homework. Some people like myself need tasks to keep on track. I get flaky unless I have a target.

Hope your idea works out, Id be interested in trying it out:thumbsup:

-Dave

[PeteDraper]

Originally posted by Tex3D
Personally, I'd be down with the step by step approach.

A forum board and regular emailing/ WIP stuff would be good for me and I'm sure others.

I hate it when I spend $50 on a book and the tutorials are missing that ONE piece fo info I need to get to the next step. I never know if it's me missing something or if the info is just NOT there. A interactive approach would be cool.

Believe it or not, I actually dig the idea of homework. Some people like myself need tasks to keep on track. I get flaky unless I have a target.

Hope your idea works out, Id be interested in trying it out:thumbsup:

-Dave

The type of workshops would be derived from the public (free) forum, from polls, forum discussions and so on. for example, you've just seen a really cool effect on tv / film and would like to know how to reproduce this. Depending on the length and complexity of the video, this would be introduced as either an entire workshop or part of it.

In order to get a taste of what the workshops would contain, I would be offering several videos for registered members of the public forum to freely download. These would be of a similar standard as the workshops, but without all the support and source material (max files, examples, photographic references etc). For anyone who'se been to one of my workshops, you know how much I like my reference material!!

cheers for the comments!!

pete

[Tex3D]

I have a few more thoughts on your idea if you would indulge me for a second. Please keep in mind that these are merely my "dream" course and may be completely far from what you are talking about.

1. A course that sets a predetermined goal and starts you off in a logical yet open way. ie....

Animate a Tornado tearing apart a house in an open field. Video footage of open field supplied by you.

Students could then work on certain elements, but not necessarily in order. In other words, If I am having trouble with the tornado (particles, space warps) I can do the house first. And then I can help others with their houses, OR get help with my tornado.

2. After that you could move to Production stuff like :

Moving footage of street, add a catastrophic event, or make a space ship land in street. Something with motion to help people with animation and tracking and blah blah.

3. Make a simple game animation or a "Level design" with a set number of polys. This could teach students the benifit of creative modelling and texturing.

4. Make and animate an animal or cartoon type character that says "hello my name is". Something that would teach NON realistic modelling and morphing techniques. Possibly nurbs or spline modelling also.

5. Make a flock of birds (or other crowd, flock) turn into a corporate logo in under 10 seconds. Timing and particles.

6. Make a Rube-Goldberg machine using 6 or 7 objects and animate it. This could teach ease in and ease out curves as well as possibly using Reactor (MAX 4or5).

Basically what I'm talking about is stuff that has real usage or value in the CG world rather than the usual "asteroid hits planet and use explode modifier". STuff that could be different for each artist rather than have everybody doing the EXACT same thing. That way students will actually give a crap about the output rather than "oh look, I made a spinning globe...woohaa"

These are just a few examples of what I would like to see, and I realize that it's pie in the sky, but that's what this forum is for so I may as well throw it out there. :shrug:

-Dave

[PeteDraper]

no, I think you're bang on there.

It'll be project based, not really feature based. The feature based training will most likely be freely available to download by Joe Public, while the individual workshops themselves would be subscription based. Each workshop could be categorised - ie effects, games, character, lighting, production for interactive media etc etc as these are more relevant to industries and genres that people want to get into nowadays.

at the end of the day, the student has to use their noggin. if they're just following instructions "parrot fashion" they're not going to learn squat... which is why I write the q&a solutions on my site the way I have - not exactly tutorial based, but descriptive as this forces the student to work stuff out... therefore learning more as it tends to sink in better that way!

cheers!

Pete

[basecoat]

If Pete Draper is going to show us how to do kick ass stuff with max, I think the majority of us would join. The only question is the price? I would'nt mind if the VTM's were sponsored, so that everything would be cheaper!
:thumbsup:

[basecoat]

(Maybe even free)
:beer:

[TimWoods]

Originally posted by Tex3D

Basically what I'm talking about is stuff that has real usage or value in the CG world rather than the usual "asteroid hits planet and use explode modifier". STuff that could be different for each artist rather than have everybody doing the EXACT same thing. That way students will actually give a crap about the output rather than "oh look, I made a spinning globe...woohaa"

-Dave

i agree. a course that has real usuage value. i would probably sign up u for something like that. This forum is good, but having someone actually helping on your own projects would be great!
also structured lessons that everyone could do.
:D

[Oktavian]

I am not much involved in the student or training-course situations, but arn't there many of these? Of course with very different quality.
So isn't this plan a bit risky? You'll do all the planing and preparing for your training and than no one book your course? Ok ok, that's why you start this poll :).
Anyway I whish you good luck.

[b1m2x3]

id do it, but only if it was cheaper.

im too young and too poor. damn.

[sireel]

Well I think Peter that if anyone else (except for a very few people I can think of) were going to do this it would royally flop, but you have a reputation of being both a fantastic artist and an excellent teacher.

My story: I have been using max for a few years now and started getting freelance work so I thought "hmmm being a self taught user of max I should probably take a course in it to learn the stuff I didn't pick up" So I went over to my local Art Institute and started takeing a 6 month course on animation. The short of it is: I am paying $3500 (well my company is anyhoo) to sit in class 1nce a week for 4 hours listening to a know nothing talk about things very obviously completely foreign to her. I took a look at her portfolio and it basically looks like stuff I could do in my sleep.... and this person is trying to Discreet certified!!

The Moral: If I were to take a course from Peter my company definatly woulnd't be paying for it but I would gladly ( so long as the cost were reasonable.... maybe around the 250 range he mentioned). There are too many idiots out there that want to teach before they know. Peters reputation alone is worth the price of admission.... I've had more explained to me by a 10 line email from him than the two months I've spent in my max course already.

[Tex3D]

Pete,
What do you think it would cost you to set something like this up??

Im wondering if there would be a way of maybe doing a trial run on something like this and see if CGTalk or somebody would help sponsor.


Once again, Just thinking out loud:hmm:

-Dave

[PeteDraper]

tex3d & basecoat: I'm currently looking into costing. If I manage to get sponsorship and/or run those sodding annoying banner adverts that pay a pittance per click, then I daresay the amount would come down. I'd also be running offers, like buy one get one half price or something... or the top student in workshop X gets free admission into workshop Y when it starts... and so on. Actually, I had lunch with discreet & their new pr company today and I completely forgot to inquire about this! Doh! There WILL be free training on the site, but not as supported.

sir eel: Cheers for the comments!! :) One of the main reasons I'm considering doing this is because of all the crap training out there. I've been contacted on numerous occasions by people saying their instructor didn't know a damn thing, and it kinda made me sit up and think when two of the students at the last workshop I hosted said they leard more in those 4 hours than they have in the last 2 years! It's not for everyone as each person has their preferred method of being taught, and for those on courses already the last thing they want is an extra tutor barking at them for not handing in their assignment in time! :D

b1m2x3: Don't worry, there'll be free video training on there aswell for download :) unfortunately I won't be burning cd's a-la buzz as I simply couldn't afford it, and god knows how he manages it...!!

oktavian: yeah, that's why I'm running the poll... just to see if there's an interest. Granted, an interest doesn't mean that you're going to sign up for the workshops, so I've got to take the result into consideration and speak to a fair few others to determine whether or not it's a go-er.

My main problems at the moment are sorting out the bandwidth issues and pricing for servers (either local or remote). Also, the filebase needs to be written, but I've got a friend who can code web based stuff with his eyes closed, so that's a big help :)

cheers all for the comments! helping a lot :D

p

[Tex3D]

Pete,
I think this thing could REALLY be helpful to a lot of users out here. We are the ones that surf the net and participate on the boards and take an active interest in furthering the art and science of 3D graphics.

If you need help in any way setting this thing up, I'm sure you can count on a lot of people to do their best to assist you without asking for anything more than a chance to learn.

Count me in!!:thumbsup:

-Dave

[b1m2x3]

free video training!?!?!?!

Pete you rock! I might be able to pay for a class for me..... ill have to get a school/summer job. pooey

[PeteDraper]

don't worry, you've got quite a while yet :D got a helluva lot to sort out, plus there's jobs I'm already contracted for on and off over the next month or two.

summer / winter jobs aren't good... I used to stack shelves at supermarkets and lifeguard when I was a kid. No fun, especially as I could never remember what isle the sugar was on, or where the tinned soup was. Kinda left that job after a fortnight...!

anyway, the website's domain(s) are registered, so it's a start :D

p

[b1m2x3]

oh wow.... i never really realized that it was you who wrote that robot tutorial in the december issue of computer arts, and a bunch of q&a's in 3dworld.

very cool. i liked it alot. :beer:

[i11uzion]

Depending on the prize, i would be interested...

I´ll keep following this thread :]

[amckay]

Hey Peter, sounds like a great idea! Lot of work involved in the whole thing, but it's definately a worthwhile thing to do, as I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from it.

Nice work!

-Allan McKay

[PeteDraper]

Originally posted by i11uzion
Depending on the prize, i would be interested...

I´ll keep following this thread :]

the prize is an all expenses paid* trip you your local burger joint.

The actual price hasn't been determined yet, but once a decision has been made then I'll post the details here to see what everyone's response is.

Allan! Great to see you on here :)

cheers!

Pete

*the management reserves the right to only cough up for a double cheeseburger.

[mark_battista]

good idea but there's no way i could afford even 20 quid mate. Do it for free and im all ears. Sorry to sound like a miser but I'm already paying 4 and half grand a year for tuition fees a year and not getting a hell of a lot of feedback from tutors at uni.
good luck, regards
Mark Battista

[PeteDraper]

there will be some free stuff publically available that will be partially supported (ie responses to queries in the forum regarding the free training), but not the full workshops as I couldn't afford to do it. Unless I get a shedload of sponsorship in which case the price will come right down, maybe even to nowt... depends on what happens.

cheers

pete

[Tex3D]

Let's not forget that the people that DO pay for it and want to be a part of the community will also probably be willing to help on the freebies too. I have found that 3D people in general are pretty open to helping newbies or people with little or no dough.

I guess it's because we've all had to live off of Ramen and bread sandwiches while we try and get that BIG client :buttrock:

-Dave

Bread Sandwiches with a tall cold glass of water can taste like Ham and eggs if you try hard enough...

[PeteDraper]

know exactly what you mean :)

[b1m2x3]

lol tex

GET SPONSORS PETE!

[sireel]

I guess it's because we've all had to live off of Ramen and bread sandwiches while we try and get that BIG client

mmmmmmm ramen *droosl like homer*

[ivo D]

srry to say... but i dont think many people will do this

one cgtalk.. is great!! you can get all your info here.. and everyone helps each other out.

great interface explanations on 3dbuzz etc etc

naah .. i just dont think it will work.. to much people. .wan tto do it o nther own way.. get to know 3d ..by school or friends..
and they will help them out in the start ,than other 3d artist, lots of tuts around etc.. you have to do it for free.. or sale your tut vids en docs to 3d schools.. or design schools.that could be a good idear..

if your learning system is good they would be very interested it think.

[aliencore]

I'd absolutly be in. CgTalk is great, but this is like one on one with a 3d max expert! Actually, I bet most of the users on CgTalk are experts with any software they use. I've read a lot of your articles and would love to have this sort of opportunity. There will be money laying around somewhere.:) I also like the idea of homework and grading of assignments. I find my computer to be an escape from school, but thats a badass idea. Good luck.

[robioto]

This sounds great, especially because it's some one who really knows max. I'm very interested, I hope that in the course of working on the projects workflow tips and efficiencies are passed onto the viewer. That for me would be some of the most valuable content. Speed is so important in the marketplace especially in game development it seems.

The pricing could be a sticking point depending on the expense. I hope that given your relationship with Discreet they decide to sponsor your efforts. A modular approach to pricing would be great for the participants but not for you I don't think. I think you'd be better off selling monthly sposorships so that you don't get an income fluctuation that results from people's disinterest in one thing and interest in another, etc...

Please keep us all posted, I'm looking forward to this.

PS: you could check out how Gnomon does their Online workshop training, you basically pay for access to the video content for a month and they continue to add a promised amount every month.

Robert
rclapp6@attbi.com

[PeteDraper]

what i'd most likely do is offer the main board free of charge, and you only have to cough up for the workshops. If you don't use the workshops, you don't pay. Sponsorship / advertising (eg banner ads in the forum) would pay for the free forum to run, but chances are the overheads would outweigh the income for the workshop board... just the bandwidth costs will be astronomical!

What I'll be doing is giving a month or two's notice to get the workshops filled, and advance warning if someone needs to raise funds for it. Basically, first come first served, and a limited amount of people per workshop else I'll get no sleep at all!

pete

[sireel]

Hey Pete, I was thinking that it might actually be easier for you to prepare a lesson before hand and then just burn them onto DVD's or something and sell those. It would be less of a headache for you and more profitable too I think... lessons could be broken up into various subjects or projects similar to what Tex3D mentioned.
Just a thought.

[PeteDraper]

considered doing that, yeah.. but I think it'll be too much effort - both for me and for the end user. Firstly I'd have to get cd's burnt / mass produced, mail them.. then the user has to wait an age until they get them. Too much waiting... the user should be able to get them asap... but for those with low bandwidth connections they can request a cd with the workshop content on it as the cd run would be small enough for me to burn them off myself

p

[robioto]

Pete, do you have any rough ideas about pricing? I'm mostly just curious but it would be good to know what I'll have to budget for.

Robert

[PeteDraper]

a final price, no.... but if you're interested then budget for around the $250 mark. The only way it's going to be more than that is if the server prices are way way WAY over the top or if I have to burn gold-plated cd's to everyone or something...

thanks for the interest!

cheers!

Pete

[sireel]

I have to burn gold-plated cd's to everyone

This is how rumors are born

[PeteDraper]

err... don't take it literally! :)

[MayaV]

hi pete

i hope the fees is not too high coz i will have to pay in dollars and each dollar will cost me 50 Indian Rupee so what ever you will put up i will have to multiply that by 50 :buttrock:

i am very much intrested and looking forward to it.

Regards

Vivek

[PeteDraper]

i'm going to try to keep it as low as I can so it's available for all who want it. Chances are the workshops will be chargable via some existing online service (eg paypal) and in GBP / USD, so I _think_ you could pick what the best way for you to pay would be. Not sure on the full workings behind it, as that's something else I've got to look into...

cheers!

Pete

[Xilica]

sounds ownaj to me :buttrock:

[lebada]

if bandwidth would be the problem i can probably get some people to find some "servers" and turn them into pubs...no hassle, no payment, everything free...:buttrock:

or just run ftp sites for downloading the cd(s)..as for those with no bandwidth they can pay for the cds themselves or whatev...but i doubt anyone here is on a 56k and uploading their short clips with that...:airguitar:

I could probably spread the so called cds to 2-3 people at a time:surprised :wavey: :

[PeteDraper]

cheers!

I'm actually looking into purchasing unlimited b/w and a rack server. Got a few companies sorting out quotes for this at the moment...

Forum's almost sorted. Just finishing adding mods and starting early tests on posting etc. Ok, check that. Forum's sorted provided I don't have to change forum types depending on server type. In which case I've gotta set the lot up again...!

cheers!

pete

[KINGOMONKEY]

Well i think thisi s an exellent idea, I'm£12000 in dept after spending four years at uni on a multimedia course where you get to do a little on lots of stuff, but never really get the chance to develop, cos youve always got other assignments to handin for other modules.

Its sounds like a bargain to have an expert on hand tyo answer all those questions. Really i think theis would be an excellent idea, and i'd be well up for it!!

Just to think that id be able to ask someone who knew the answer, rather than not bethering 'cos you know they wouldnt.

In the Uk that'd be around 160 quid, now thats gotta be a bargain.

Pete how long would the course last for??

[PeteDraper]

about 5 or 6 weeks in total, including a main project at the end. The full ins & outs of it have yet to be ironed out, including the price (not set in stone yet, and may got up or down depending on outgoings)

cheers for the interest tho! :)

pete

[rayboy]

Hi, Pete.

I've been scouring the net for some decent 3dsMax training in the UK recently as I want to formalise my formerly haphazard approach and learn to use the program properly.

So I've just come across your thread and want to register my interest. I think it would be a great idea and reckon that the price would be about right.

[amckay]

Peter, was going to shoot you an email and just realised this threads still kind of active. Just curious to know how the workshops going? Whether it's likely to receive a go ahead or not? Eager to know as I want to do something similiar quite soon (well a dvd on vfx) so I'm interested in knowing how your seminaar goes and what the level of interest is.

G'luck with it I'm sure everyone who attends will learn quite a lot form it

Allan McKay

[PeteDraper]

Hey allan

It's hopefully gonna fire off around summer time - by which time the server space, bandwidth, pricing and content should be about sorted by then. I'm currently setting up forum structure (just about finished - just ironing out bugs to do with the emailing and file systems) and writing out lesson plans for the free and paid content.

I'd say go for it! Andy Murdock's LOR DVD has sold pretty well from what I hear and has got great feedback on the content, so there definately is a market out there! A DVD on VFX would definately be interesting; hell I'd buy it! :)

It's been touch and go over the last week as to whether this thing will definately go ahead or not, mainly due to cost, but I've discovered (relatively) cheap rackservers, and am also in the process or striking a deal with Turbo Squid to host the free and paid content and I just run the forum and lessons. This should help keeps outgoings to a minimum (even though they take a sizable cut).

Okay, I'm waffling. Go for it. :)

cheers!

Pete

[MayaV]

Andy Murdock's LOR DVD has sold pretty well from what I hear and has got great feedback on the content, so there definately is a market out there! A DVD on VFX would definately be interesting; hell I'd buy it!

hi Pete

can u guide me to the LOR DVD link. thanx a gig

regards

Vivek

[amckay]

Pete, yeah I've been getting lots of positive feedback over the years about doing somethign like this which is good. I've recently gone freelance at the absolutely worst time as I'm just learning so maybe I will have some time up my sleave to do some :)

I bought the LOR dvd purely out of curiosity a whiel back, can't say I've actually gone through it yet but the content is pretty amazing especially for $20 US. I'm glad I got it, but apart from a gig with Paramount I recently finished up (action flick) I rarely use max these days with the exception of a few jobs where there's a max license around as I find it's better to jump into max on most of the bigger jobs as maya has big problems handling the simplest of particle effects sometimes ;)

vivek : http://www.lotsofrobots.com/ Definitely check it out, it's got some freakishly amazing content on that dvd!

[Breinmeester]

Hi Pete!

You already know I'm up for it! It would be cool to have an expert by my side while doing large scale projects. I would be mostly interested in character animation and 3D composits in real life footage. Were you planning on involving these subjects? Can we read up on progress of your plans somewhere?

Cheers! I hope this works out!:thumbsup:

[Tex3D]

DO IT DO IT!! QUIT WAFFLING AND DO IT!!

GO PETE GO!!!:buttrock:

I can't friggin wait till this puppy gets going. I feel like FINALLY I will get some lessons/insight into VFX. I have bought the books and I have done the tutorials and I still don't "get it"

You ROCK:thumbsup:

-Dave

Maybe you and Allan McKay can get something going together!!!:eek: That would kick ass:drool:

[PeteDraper]

patience is a virtue :D

once the forum is sorted then I'll open it up for people to post and vote on exactly what they would like to have included.

character stuff - most likely, but I doubt I'll personally be handling that side as character animation isn't one of my strong points. Character building - fine. Character animation - nope. I've got a fair few colleagues in the industry who I have worked with on jobs on more than one occasion and are very interested in contributing to the training, so it WILL be covered, just maybe not by me personally. The other one suggested - cg integration in pre-shot scenes will most likely be included as part of a vfx workshop (also including matched lighting, tracking (p'raps), scene scaling, etc etc). I'm also looking to getting "guest trainers" on board who will contribute to the package, but it depends on their availability to record the content and also if they have the time to back up the paid workshops. If they can't back it up then it will most likely be part of the free or sponsored member training (yup... sponsored members (which helps pay for the server space, bandwidth blablabla) will have exclusive training videos available to just them, and will also have advanced (say, a month) availability to the upcoming free content!

everything will be on the forum, once it goes live (kinda live at the mo but is locked out from anyone regsitering while me and a few others sort out forum mod problems :annoyed: )

cheers! This is a real boost that this much interest is being taken into a pipedream I had over a year ago!! cheers all!!! :D:D:D

pete

[Tex3D]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[Signal2Noise]

I enjoy your tutorials when they appear in 3D World. This would be a great boon to the max community!:thumbsup:

[damesqlo]

have you thought if you need some special license of Discreet?

[mlabrams]

id gladly plunk down 200-350 $ (probally not that much its canadian) ive been doing all this free stuff online for a while now and am trying to get into more advanced training, buying books, but video training is soo appealing to me, i have a bit of a hard time with learning from reading, its just soo much easier seeing a visal


you can count me in, ill get the money somehow no matte the cost

[hughr]

none mater what we want ,how can we get it is the most important thing...
right?

[sireel]

*sir eel focus' all of his chi towards being patient *

[Primitive]

I take all the training I can get, allthough I'm student (16) and can't afford all the training I wan't, that's the problem. Videos does seem really appealing though. :thumbsup:

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