C4D + Fryrender images

[flingster]

looks sweet...can you tell us some more about the c4d plugin and this renderer please..maybe a dialogue screen shot or something and your experiences with it...
also do you know when a demo will be available?

[flingster]

like that show of animation over time bit..v nice...also seems to have an impressive feature set...curious about c4d integration...it looks sweet anyway.
http://www.fryrender.com/fryrender_features.pdf
wonder how it stacks up against something comparable like maxwell..your thoughts?

[ahven]

the renderings looks great. However if you have any more experiences about using Fryrender I would be interested how efficient it is and how fast?
The price tag is very good as it is under 400 € when compared to maxwell or Final Render Stage 2. Also the quality is superior.

[soccerrprp]

I don't know about the quality being "superior." It doesn't seem any better than Maxwell renders that I have seen. I would be interested in ease of use (or comparative), integration into C4D and render times.

Thanks. It looks like another (ugh) nice renderer to consider. :)

Richard

EDIT: Just checked out the website. Looks interesting! C4D integration and then some. Can't wait for the demo...

[PaulT]

I've never used maxwell so can't comment on it. Fry's integration with c4d seems to be pretty good to me. Fry material editor pops up rather than the c4d one, render to picture viewer loads and starts fryrender instead etc. Render times aren't too bad, the payoff from a commercial point of view is that you don't usually have to spend much time in the setup/testrender stage and can go off and do something else instead whilst it renders. No GI splotches to deal with etc.

[flingster]

can you illuminate some more then on the material/texture part of it?

[moka-studio]

I've never used maxwell so can't comment on it. Fry's integration with c4d seems to be pretty good to me. Fry material editor pops up rather than the c4d one, render to picture viewer loads and starts fryrender instead etc. Render times aren't too bad, the payoff from a commercial point of view is that you don't usually have to spend much time in the setup/testrender stage and can go off and do something else instead whilst it renders. No GI splotches to deal with etc.

thanks for sharing the exemples, had also seen them on the Moi forum.
I have a couple of questions for you:
-Does Fryrender support distributerd rendering? if yes, how many computers or cores can you use per license? Do you have to buy full extra licenses to add more nodes?
-When you talk about the material editor fom FRY, does FRy also translate C4d materials? does it also come with material presets?
- Since it starts up in C4d, as I understand it, I take it that it supports rendering C4d animations?
- Would you care to share Render time and render specs for the Phone images that you posted?
thanks for the info

[andrewillingworth]

Is there a C4D plugin for Mac based C4D environments the Fryrender website implies that there is without being specific....

[wuensch]

Thanks for the examples.
I am also curious.
Havin read the PDF, all reads very interesting --
the only (and for me crucial) questions are:
How will rendertimes hit me, especially in animation?
Are there any examples of animation with rederspecs anywhere available?

And : are there expample of the Micropoly Displacement on animated Characters anywhere?.

Its a very interesting product at a good price.

Olli

[PaulT]

I'm not really an expert on Fry as I've only had it a few weeks, your best bet for gaining info is to check/ask on the Fryrender forum. I'm not sure what the licencing situation is with regards to cpus, as I only use one. There is a material converter which seems to work well at least for the simple materials I've tried. I tend to just create them from scratch rather than converting c4d mats. I've not tried rendering an animation yet but yes it does render animation. Thing to remember is it is still in beta so things are subject to change/improve.

Rendertime for the phone image was around 3.5hours at 1600x1200 on an athlon3200 cpu.

[mogh]

can you explain the scene setup for the phones, since im studying in that section, im always after good product render setups.

i see you have a white box reflection on the right and the fading from left is coming from .....?

please some insight ...

thanks

[nycL45]

Is there a C4D plugin for Mac based C4D environments the Fryrender website implies that there is without being specific....

I was told that no Mac version is planned and that perfecting the windows version was their only objective. "No, never.", "It is unlikely." or equal sentiments were not used so, I do not believe the door is closed on a Mac version in the future. http://fryrender.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=232&highlight=

I am prepping my IntelMac to run Fry.

[lllab]

i also own maxwell and fry and i can say from speed both are the same. maxwell is a bit faster clearing noise for me.
the plugin is better in fryrender, networkrender is in both, but better in maxwell i think.
interesting will be the promised rc4 engine i think, a game engine like envirmoment for fry.
cheers
stefan

[LemonNado]

Guy's.... I also own a FryRender Beta Copy but according to the NDA I had to sign I am not able to make any statements, post artwork, or actually acknowledge the existence of Fryrender in Public. How did you get around that?
Rainr

[soccerrprp]

Hmmm. Rainer why would "they" not want you to talk about/post examples of what FryRender can do? Sounds counter-productive to me. As for concealing its existence- THEY HAVE A WEBSITE talking about it. We all know that select beta-testers are routinely used to find bugs and show-off software, especially something like this.

[LemonNado]

There is an NDA to be signed when you buy the Fry Beta.... And we have to stick to it. Just a reminder. Besides that, I really like my copy as well 8))). The guy's are quick with updates and the support is fantastic. Like Maxon. And the results are... ooopsss... nda.... ;}
Rainer

[PaulT]

mogh, its just another white emitter plane off to the left of the model. There is a plane either side of the model and one behind and to the right of the camera.

Rainer, I've never had to sign an nda. As far as I know it was lifted a few weeks ago.

[Magnus3D]

I'm also a Fryrender user and the NDA we signed been removed now not long ago so yes we can talk all we want and show screenshots and whatever, there are no more restrictions.

Below textsegment is quoted directly from Fryrender's Project Status section on the forum

THE END OF THE NDA

The end of the NDA and the release of our free DEMO are linked. As you already know (particularly if you are a customer) fryrender is protected by a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) that binds you with Feversoft. That NDA forbids the exposure of screenshots or renders outside our forum without our explicit approval.

Well, FROM THIS VERY MOMENT ON, all of our customers are relieved from the liabilities described in that NDA.

The NDA has officially passed away.

So.. let's talk! :D

/ Magnus

[LemonNado]

That's great news!
Rainer (eating humble pie...)

[moka-studio]

i also own maxwell and fry and i can say from speed both are the same. maxwell is a bit faster clearing noise for me.
the plugin is better in fryrender, networkrender is in both, but better in maxwell i think.
interesting will be the promised rc4 engine i think, a game engine like envirmoment for fry.
cheers
stefan

Hi Stefan,
does FRy support distributed rendering, or just network rendering?
How many cpus per license?
thanks

[LemonNado]

It uses network rendering which btw. is very easy to set up. It is not a bucket renderer (I don't know if that would even be possible the way those algorithms work...) FRY renders the images each with a specific set of variables which leads to a different noise pattern in each image. Those 'partial' images can be merged and then a noise remover can pull the rest out. That lead to much lower render times than Maxwell for me.
Rainer

[moka-studio]

It uses network rendering which btw. is very easy to set up. It is not a bucket renderer (I don't know if that would even be possible the way those algorithms work...) FRY renders the images each with a specific set of variables which leads to a different noise pattern in each image. Those 'partial' images can be merged and then a noise remover can pull the rest out. That lead to much lower render times than Maxwell for me.
Rainer

Hi Rainer-
thanks for the info.

So basically you are using a c4d-like way of rendering, with the 9tile camera, right?
And removing noise in Pshop?

[Ernest Burden]

It uses network rendering which btw. is very easy to set up.

I haven't even gotten that far. I'm glad to hear its easy to set up.

[LemonNado]

Yes, the network rendering IS easy to set up, and you can see in a window the client signing on and the status and all that.

No, it's not a tiled camera. It is a copy of the image you render but with other parameters in respect to the noise pattern. FRY merges the rendered images into one, then you can use PS to eliminate the remaining noise with a recommended thrid party filter. The PS filters work, but the recommended filter is a killer. The result is as follows: 1 image rendered really really longggggg (same story as in Maxwell) is the best. Then a couple or more images rendered in a fraction of that time, then combined and processed for noise are close to that quality, and then a single image rendered in that fraction of time compared to the 'long fry' looks pretty noisy. With well lit images, where well means BRIGHT, the difference between a mega long fry or a comparably quick render on two machines was not really noticable after noise removal in both images. 'Neat Image' is the noise reducer I use.

But.... one shall not forget that it fry's the images with all spu's available. I have a Mac Pro and a dual core Opteron and both render with 4 cpu's. I bet a octo would render like a greased monkey.

Have a great day all.... I'll be wrestling with drywall in my garage today... in the 90's... Sighhh...
Rainer

[lllab]

so how do you setup it? i always got errors, probably if it works for you i must do something wrong. i tested on an octo and 4 quads.

cheers
stefan

[soccerrprp]

Greetings,

Does anyone have a C4D sample file that is geered up to work with FRYRENDER? I just need something simple to test. Or can someone lead me to a link/site where I can download C4D files ready to rendered using FRYRENDER?

Also, is there a tutorial on how to render using C4D? I will continue search.

Thank you!

Richard

[nycL45]

Richard, I have a s-i-m-p-l-e C4D file (2megs) of four stone tiles, grout and a ball, with the stone textures, and no lighting (I used physical sky) that you are welcome to. I rendered it with Beta 1.7 and 1.8. I would offer the .dsi file but it is 66megs!

Basic rendering in Fry with the C4D plug is pretty easy. Remember, I said 'basic'. I had difficulty with instances because some of the instances disappeared and not due to the Fry process. Instances in Fry require much care to give them the correct name in Fry or else they do not show up. I am working on a small project that avoids instances so I can make it a bit less work in Fry.

Let me know.

[danb]

Attaching to this thread, because i like the idea of another "maxwell-like" renderer and this price is very nice.

[rob rhodes]

I have Fry too and it really is sweet if your after an unbiased renderer. I don't have a test scene to hand but it is pretty easy to pick up and reliable. There is also a really helpful community on the fryrender forum and the guys from feversoft are always on it helping out, top notch support goes a long way in my book. They are also pretty fast when it comes to development and promises are always met - it already has more features than maxwell and its still in beta. I am also eagerly awaiting vray as i think that they will be a killer combo giving me some choice or alternative output, im sure there will be times when i start a project in one and then move to the other if im struggling to get the desired effect.

[SystemofaDown]

do you guys know what im doing wrong? i apply materials to all my objects and an emmiter material to a plane lets so and choose fryrender video effect, add a camera and click render. It opens up fry render and the render is all black.

[unseenthings]

do you guys know what im doing wrong? i apply materials to all my objects and an emmiter material to a plane lets so and choose fryrender video effect, add a camera and click render. It opens up fry render and the render is all black.
The only thing I can think of is either your emitter isn't strong enough or it's facing the wrong way. Also, scale is a huge, huge, huge deal. But you should see something in there. Try going into video effect and click Fryrender->Fryrender Environment Settings and either use the physical sky or an HDRI in the environment mapping channel (or just use the white color -- that works, too) -- any/either of those options should light things up just to make sure you're okay.

If your scale is really off, that might cause a problem as well. But check with lighting things via the environment settings and see if that helps you at least get to a starting point.

[SystemofaDown]

Thanks man that worked. For some reason my emitter doesnt work. I placed an emitter material that came with fryrender on a plane object and its black. I tried rotating 180degrees but still black. I tried flipping the normals too.

[unseenthings]

Not a perfect example by any means... Very, very simple, but hopefully it can be a decent starting place for people.

Scene: Shiny Red Cone, Chrome Sphere, small Shotglass, reflective plane.
Materials: No maps needed, all procedurals, mostly the stock ones.

Sample C4D->FryRender Scene (http://www.unseenthings.net/cgtalk/simple_c4d_fry_scene.zip)

I'd include a render of the scene if I had time, I'll try to do that later. It was done in millimeters, so if you get really strange results, try switching your units to mm.

Hope this helps!

Here's a very quick (10m) render of this scene:
http://www.unseenthings.net/cgtalk/c4d_fry_simple_scene.jpg

[danb]

Does the "Atmosphere" have to be ticked to "use" with every render?

I noticed that i was getting blank renders until i turned on "use".

I'd like to render using an object as an emitter inside a room with no windows. Anyone know how i can do that?

As of right now i can't get my emitters to light up a scene.

[unseenthings]

Does the "Atmosphere" have to be ticked to "use" with every render?
Nope, not at all. But it does work on just about every scene out there.

I noticed that i was getting blank renders until i turned on "use".
...
As of right now i can't get my emitters to light up a scene.
Try checking the sample scene I uploaded -- it has an object (plane) emitter as well as atmosphere.

I'd like to render using an object as an emitter inside a room with no windows. Anyone know how i can do that?
It's absolutely possible -- that's the way a lot of people use it. I'd definitely check the scale of the scene fisrt and foremost. Beyond that, try cranking up the emitters. Also, try running a preview of the material (the quality slider doesn't need to be at 100 -- I usually set mine at 15 or 20 to get a fast but reasonable preview) -- some of the materials have changed a bit since 1.7, which I think is when all the included materials had their previews made. But try checking the scale of the scene (it should be to "real world" size, optimally) and the power of the emitter.

Also, once you've got the scene exported to Fry and you're working with it, you can stop the render, go to materials, crank up the emitter values and start it up again with a smaller size (320x240) or whatever to help speed things along.

Also, there are a number of very helpful PDF's on the fryrender website (http://www.fryrender.com/index.php?subpage=tut_gal) that have great tips as far as rendering, etc goes.

[danb]

Hmm, same thing is happening with your scene. Your plane emitter is not rendering or illuminating.

I'll check out the tutorials. I'll also try cranking up the values.

Thanks for your help. Have you done any animations using Fry?

Fry Render is a very easy non-biased renderer to work with. I like it much more than maxwell.

[danb]

Which filter in photoshop is recomended for de-noising an image.

[unseenthings]

Hmm, same thing is happening with your scene. Your plane emitter is not rendering or illuminating.

I'll check out the tutorials. I'll also try cranking up the values.

Thanks for your help. Have you done any animations using Fry?

Fry Render is a very easy non-biased renderer to work with. I like it much more than maxwell.
I'd almost bet money that it's a scale thing. Are you set to millimeters? Make sure you c4d units are set to millimeters and that Fry is exporting (in the render settings) 1:1

I've created a second scene that's powered only by 3 plane emitters. They're also all on separate layers, so once you stop the render (or while it's still going) you can go into the Blending tab and tweak the power (or turn on/off) Layers #1, #2 and #3 and see the effects of them going on and off. This is *way* more than just compositing them in or out. You can also animate that through the timeline/animation keys in that frame, and (here's the cool part) they all work off the saved information from that *one single render* -- so you don't have to re-render everything to have the effects of different lights coming in and out.

Sample C4D Fry Scene -- Emitter Planes Only (http://www.unseenthings.net/cgtalk/simple_c4d_fry_scene_02.zip)

If your units aren't set to millimeters, YMMV.

Here's a preview of this scene with the emitters:
http://www.unseenthings.net/cgtalk/emitters_only.jpg

[unseenthings]

Thanks for your help. Have you done any animations using Fry?

Fry Render is a very easy non-biased renderer to work with. I like it much more than maxwell.
I've done a couple... nothing too terribly exciting just yet. :) And I like Fry a whoooole lot more than maxwell, though to be fair, my experience with maxwell was pretty limited.

I haven't tried to de-noise one in photoshop yet... If you're just trying to get a good idea of one part of the material/render, you can use the Aeronoise feature to select a certain area. It's the Airbrush/Marquee/Fill buttons above the image in the main fryrender rendering panel. What it does is focus all of Fry's power on whatever area(s) you select. It's *extremely* useful, especially if you're going to cut out something with an alpha later.

[danb]

If your units aren't set to millimeters, YMMV.

Ok its working now. I didn't set units to millimeters before. Guess it pays to read the whole post, eh?

BTW what does YMMV mean? Or do i not want to know? :)

<edit> How do i download materials from Fry's site? I don't see a download link.

[unseenthings]

Ok its working now. I didn't set units to millimeters before. Guess it pays to read the whole post, eh?

BTW what does YMMV mean? Or do i not want to know? :)

<edit> How do i download materials from Fry's site? I don't see a download link.
You scene was probably way too big or too small.

YMMV = Your Milage May Vary ;-) (i.e. no guarantees)

And, unfortunately, only people who have purchased seats of Fry can download the materials on the main site. However, there are a few in the forums there if you dig a little bit.

Anyway, glad it worked. I know some kind of starting reference point always helps me out, so hopefully these two starter scenes will help other people start as well now that the demo is out.

[rob rhodes]

I haven't got fry open but i think if in the emitter settings you use watts per m2 option that helps. basically you can set it so the total wattage is spread over the whole object or is a consistant amount per unit of area. Sorry not very clear but i bet its just a power issue. Also try moving your iso up to let more light into the scene.

[glassuse]

i saw the pdf tutorial about exit portal to speed up render.
i did all whats said and i got the same result on both and plus the without portal is a little clear than the portal one.. or ist becuse its Demo

pic for settings i did
http://www.j1jj.com/uploads/2b42a37b26.jpg

another presp.
http://www.j1jj.com/uploads/9f9bad6449.jpg


-anothor problem,, the glass is black tried every thing wit it and its really dark.

and if possibly a scene for both:)

hope to get some answers
thanks

[rob rhodes]

try fliping your normals on your exit portal the have to be facing the right way - which is a bit of a pain. I cheat sometimes and if i have any glass in the window i just put an exit portal tag on that which seems to work well but you can't see past the portal so it looks like you have a thin wall or that the window is flush with the outside.

[paulselhi]

does fry come with a manual ? there is very little documentation on the site and the c4d section of the forum is closed

[unseenthings]

Unfortunately not -- no docs until 1.0 is released.

The best way is to experiment. Create an account on the forum and dig through to find out what you can... the pdf's on the main site help some, but you'll learn a lot by experimenting.

[davedavidson]

"the pdf's on the main site help some, but you'll learn a lot by experimenting."
quoted for agreement.
i have both maxwell and fryrender. i now use fryrender as my default c4d renderer this is due to the output i get and the workflow ( intergrated nice into c4d IMHO) Its well worth the Download of the demo ( i mean theres nothing to loose is there)

[paulselhi]

Thing that gets me about these "unbiased" render systems is that though they all claim minimal setup time that is offset by prohibitive render times. And actually i am not so sure about the minimal set up times as there is always tweaking of camera settings, emitter vlues, sky settings and material settings.

Given the time for these renders someone competent with vray, FR or even AR could have done a good setup and be well into their render before maxwell or fry has anything worthwhile to show.

I think competent artists especially pros, have a set of setups in mind for most render situations that need relativley little tweaking per scene, I mean once they have rendered one ideal interior it is not that great a leap to adjust settings for another interior shot

I wish that the "unbiased" render creators would loosen this obession with the "mythical" perfect physics render system and pehaps create a hybrid renderer that has the best of biased and unbiased systems

I think frprime works along these lines and maybe vray with a pure lightcache render

If say fry and maxwell could let the render do say 80 % using the techniques they already use then have an option to switch to a more "traditional" render method to finish off, using the already good calculated data from the unbiased portion.

Maybe this is how vray and Fr work i am not sure, but it seems that often with maxwell the renders can get very good within say an hour of rendering but then take an eternity to improve

[xmood]

hy all

iv downloaded the both scenes .. thy are not rendering ! just black window
any idea

[sunmade]

Well there is a "raison d'être" for both biased and unbiased renderers.

Can't wait to play with Vray to see the possibilities.

But, Maxwell is very fast for exterior shots. Very fast for the quality you get.
I mean, the light quality is just amazing. Love it!

And I have done many many Maxwell renders, and it hits me every time again. WOW
Looks just like a photo.

But it is true that interior shots take very long to realy render noise free.
I lust after more horsepower for sure!

NeatImage helps a great deal, in minimum time. Also sticking to some rules for Maxwell rendering is crucial (RGB<242, no intersecting lights etc).

And there is a Maxwell renderfarm that currently has 160 Ghz/hour power to render Maxwell projects.

So it is always a bit critical calling Maxwell slow. It depends on the scene (interior / exterior)

Tweaking time is minimal. Quality is excellent.

My opinion only! I would love to give FryRender a go, but I don't want to use it via Parrallels or BootCamp.

[davedavidson]

have you checked the scale and make sure your in mm
( this was stated earlier) if not come back and we start again :)

oh and here is a wip im rendering at the moment its an old scene just converted for fry
1hr 50mins so far ( yes its still noisy but thats the nature of the beast and i love it :))
http://apollo.divshare.com/s05a/files/2007/09/16/1993349/boooo7.jpg

[flingster]

i don't know really i think there are pros and cons all round really...still think the quality of the light in unbiased engines is pretty damn real..depending on what you want to render time may not be the limiting factor...its different strokes for different folk...HOWEVER where i do agree with you is that time factor in tweaking and getting a decent idea of how an image will look once gone through the wait of death. personally i'm a fan but i can see why others aren't...waiting for renders is no fun in any renderer the fact that these are slower makes it less fun..but some of the results may outweigh the time factor for some people.

[xmood]

its mm
and not rendering :(

[davedavidson]

im lucky really i think as 99% of my client work is rendered under 2hours as they are external works or product renderings. there will always be some that dont like and some that do. to each to thier own. i just like the quality i get from the unbiased engines. im use to seeing the render clear now so its all good better than watching blackness and then buckets or stripes being rendered :)


msn me xmood ;)

[paulselhi]

ddatmax3d....

love the render so far, especially the king ed cigar box, i have one right in front of me ..empty i use it to hold pens etc..

It made me laugh seeing yours, i got mine from an army captain 20 years ago, I got thrown out of a pub for trying to sell the box !!

anyway i digress ..

[davedavidson]

lol i bought them off ebay before they clamped down on cigar selling and omg they smoked like they where 20yr old infact i still have them :) pleased you like the render so far

[IlaySHP]

I think both maxwell&fry~r are useful for outdoors scenes. But fry is more native for cinema4d with mats convertor and simple integration. And "fry~r's studio" has Aeronoise feature(exactly brush-tool)...
And fry is future unb.render(my too)

[vibrunnica]

After 3 hours of rendering...(is it normal..??). fryrender material for car body, rims and headlamps... 2 polygon emitters... the rest are converted from c4d mats... theres one displacement material in the scene...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Vibrunnica/1audi.jpg

PS: how to render composition like we do it in c4d (background, floor, compositing tag..etc).. thanks..

[flingster]

how do scenes compare side by side for say maxwell and fry and interms of speed has anybody messed around with some fair comparisions...?

[unseenthings]

After 3 hours of rendering...(is it normal..??). fryrender material for car body, rims and headlamps... 2 polygon emitters... the rest are converted from c4d mats... theres one displacement material in the scene...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Vibrunnica/1audi.jpg

It looks pretty nice! I'd definitely check the scale of the scene -- most of my renders that come out a little too noisy and a little too blurry tend to be scaled up way too big. Items should be real-life scale. Cinema's default scale tends to be way, way too big. I think you should be able to get a better (cleaner) result in 3 hours than that, but some of it depends on how you set things up. But first and foremost, check the scale. :)

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.