Major Visibility Bug!

[ChrisCousins]

Does anyone know anyone of a work around, other than binning this £500 "upgrade" and going back to V9.6, which is what I am doing at the moment. V10 seems to be the worst, bug filled, implementation ever. I have been a very happy user since V4.

Hi alawrence - thanks for the heads up. Could you animate the visibility on a display tag instead of using the visibility dots?

[Srek]

Have you tried refreshing the scene? Try to press "a" if the display of the OM is incorrect.
The reason for this behaviour is simply speed. Changing the display in the Object manager during animation would reduce playback speed enormously.
Sorry, not a bug but a limitation.
Cheers
Björn

[alawrence]

I have a scene with only 3 primitives.

My machine is an 8 core Mac Pro with an ATI XT1900 graphics card and 5GB Ram

This is not a refresh problem but something much deeper

This was fully implemented in previous versions of C4D and I have been working like this for at least 7 years. I am not asking C4d to do anything complicated here. Just turn off visibility correctly. Give me back the functionality.

When I turn the steering wheel on my car left I expect to go left, not right.

[Srek]

If you like to see this functionality back (keep in mind it will come with a speed hit) please use the web ideas form on the MAXON website.
Cheers
Björn

[Theropoda]

Hi alawrence,

I've tested your file and everything works fine... the editor corresponds with the keys in the timeline as well as with the object manager.
Have you already made the update to 10.1? Maybe that's the issue?

Günter

[bunk]

If you like to see this functionality back (keep in mind it will come with a speed hit) please use the web ideas form on the MAXON website.
Cheers
Björn

I got the feeling you're not talking about the same thing. What alawrence is talking about would have been a bug if it wasn't one since it's still working.

This was fully implemented in previous versions of C4D and I have been working like this for at least 7 years. I am not asking C4d to do anything complicated here. Just turn off visibility correctly. Give me back the functionality.

It's still there. I opened you're file in 10.012 and it worked fine. I then recreate it in 9.507 and it worked exactly the same.
The AM and the timeline are in sinc ...always. The only moment the OM and the timeline are out of sinc is when you keep the Left mouse button pressed while scrubbing the timeslider. Soon as you let go of the the left mouse button the OM is updated.

If it's not working like this for you, you should start with deleting your prefs. If it's still not working you might want to try a new install.

[alawrence]

I have experienced this problem on 2 different machines. One with the Demo and the second with the full freshly installed version updated to 10.012. I have thrown away my prefs.

Maxon UK have seen the problem with their own eyes in a file they created, not supplied by myself.

I am not scrubbing through the timelines or even playing an animation.

All I am doing is advancing the timeline by 1 frame by left clicking on the blue FORWARD button (not fast forward) or BACKWARD (not fast rewind)

The time should step forward 1 frame from for e.g Frame1 to Frame 2. When I do this I expect that the TIMELINE, EDITOR WINDOW and OBJECT MANAGER are all EQUAL, with the objects all in the same state of visiblity.

So in the timeline if an object is set to INVISIBLE IN EDITOR and INVISIBLE IN RENDERER I expect the object to be invisble in the Editor window AND the 2 visibility dots in the Object manager to be RED.

So in the timeline if an object is set to VISIBLE IN EDITOR and VISIBLE IN RENDERER I expect the object to be invisble in the Editor window AND the 2 visibility dots in the Object manager to be GREEN.

This problem occurs when going both forward or backward by 1 frame. If you advance forward.

Any other state is wrong, incorrect, in error, mistaken, erronous, inaccurate, faulty, unsound.

Is this too much to ask?

This is how the previous versions worked.

Please open my C4D file and try exactly what I have written above, steeping forward and backward through single frames. Go forward and backwards through all the frames a few times and you will see understand problem.


Quote "Changing the display in the Object manager during animation would reduce playback speed enormously."

This is not a complicated scene. It has 3 primitives only. I am not Playing an animation. I am advancing time by ! 1 frame at a time.

Please download the V9 version so that you can compare how well it used to work (with no "speed hit" in V9.

I do not believe that this is functionality that has been removed.

VIEWER, TIMELINE and OBJECT MANAGER should agree with each other.

I would love to be incorrect, but I am suffering from this problem. I wish it would go away.

[Simon Wicker]

this IS a bug.

when stepping through an animation the AM, OM and timeline should all be in sync.

using the supplied file the OM dots lag by one frame.

the only time this shouldn't happen is during an animation (the managers should only be updated at the end UNLESS you have activated the preference to auto update during playback).

stepping through frame by frame is just like clicking around the powerslider to jump from frame to frame. i would certainly expect my managers to keep in sync in this case otherwise how would you know if you were keyframing the correct values?

cheers, simon w.

[bunk]

ANY PARTICULAR REASON WE ARE SHOUTING?!



All I am doing is advancing the timeline by 1 frame by left clicking on the blue FORWARD button (not fast forward) or BACKWARD (not fast rewind)

I can repeate the bug following the above step. The right info does help.

Does anyone know anyone of a work around, other than binning this £500 "upgrade" and going back to V9.6, which is what I am doing at the moment.

Use the timeslider or press 'a' after advancing the timeline by 1 frame by left clicking on the blue FORWARD button (not fast forward) or BACKWARD (not fast rewind)

[jph]

.... BUG!....

If you like to see this functionality back (keep in mind it will come with a speed hit) please use the web ideas form on the MAXON website.
Cheers
Björn

....hey shrek you should reconsider this remark and come up with something more helpfull... ;)

ciao jan

[Sneaker]

As soon as you click in the Object Manager it gets updated properly.

-Michael

[LucentDreams]

.... BUG!....



....hey shrek you should reconsider this remark and come up with something more helpfull... ;)

ciao jan

What, the company has a method that they work in, they have a data base system and when you submit a post using their form it goes into the database. What else is srek going to do other than put it in the database himself probably in fewer words and maybe missing the users point. Best to do it themselves.

As for the bug, its a refresh issue, particularly when moving frame by frame or scrubbing instead of playing back. Is it a huge end of the world bug, no really, use the visibility setting in the display tag as someone already suggested, its generally not a good idea to animate the visibility dots, if for no less than the fact that your storing two tracks and two sets of keys while the visibility setting would only store one.

[alawrence]

Yes using the display tag is a workaround.

However there is no feedback in the Object manager as to what the visibility level is, which the visibilty dots did really well. There were only 3 states, Default, On and Off. You can tell instantly which groups are going to render and which are hidden. When you advance the timeline groups clearly swap states. The display tag cannot do this. This is the function that was present and 100% reliable in the previous versions. It is no longer reliable.

The function was created for the reason I am using it. There are alternatives, but they are not as good in my opinion, and I have many years of work set up this.

Ok, if I remember everytime I click the frame forward or backward I must now also click in the object manager so that the visibilty dots update. Great!

If I am just clicking through frames watching the scenes change the Object Manager will be displaying misleading information. This will cause confusion and errors.

When stepping through an animation the AM, OM and timeline should all be in sync.

[chi]

on the up side its not like the object itself is lagging behind...it still disappears at the right time...
on a side note if you add your visibility dots to the hud it refreshes properly.

[CWDesign]

I had exactly the same problem with a project the other day.

For a start I thought my work colleage hadnt set the file up as I requested,
but then I soon realised it wasnt updating correctly.

I also checked your file alawrence and it also had the problems you described.

cheers

CWD

[alawrence]

I hope this is possible, but I cannot find this option within the HUD settings

[alawrence]

Thanks Chi

That is a good tip which I did not know about. It is not ideal but it helps. Many thanks.

It highlights the bug as now there are three managers, Timeline, HUD and Editor view that are all syncronised, anf the object manager that is incorrect.

When stepping through an animation the AM, OM and timeline should all be in sync.

[alawrence]

Here is a screen grab showing the conflicting information between the HUD and the Object Manager.

C4d seems to have split personality at the moment.

[alawrence]

The V10 visbility 'limitation' had now been fixed back to V9 functionality with the latest update.

Many thanks maxon

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