Why premiere increase size files at render ?

[Ruramuq]

As far as I know, Premiere always re-compresses. Somebody told me long ago, that if you use the original parameters that were used to compress the video, premiere would not re-compress. but I think it is not true, it is not possible at all, specially with .mov files, which I think are not good for editing videos.

a recompressed video, will always lose quality

that's why virtualdub, is an excellent tool... it has a "direct stream copy" that never recompress .avi files when you add audio files

perhaps someone knows a tool to mix audio- with quicktime files

[SebKaine]

Ok thanks for your help Ruramuq !

It is internal to premiere ! Well at this time , i find quick time Pro smarter than premiere to edit .mov files ! I love virtual Dubb but it can't edit .mov . You say that . mov files are pretty bad for editing , i 'm not an editor myself , so if you have any advice or if want to share your workflow for editing it would be great !

At this time i Input IFF or .Exr image to my compositing software , and i outpout . mov files with "animation" compression to edit them in premiere. Then i outpout the finaledit with quictime , again with "animation" compression. My problem is at the last step, when premiere give me files 4 times bigger than the original at the final rendering.

If you think that this could be better i would be glad to know it !

Thanks again for your help

Cheers

SK

[Tagger]

basicly what premiere (when you choose the standard DV project) does is

it takes your file in
it splits off your audio in an uncompressed format.
if you see a red line above your timeline you need to render it (everything that isnt DV has that line). so it takes your file, whatever compression you have and changes them in a DV avi file with a GOP of 1 (every frame = I frame), if you don't have an iframe at every frame it's just very hard to edit. these are the files you find in your "preview files" folder.

when you export it, it reads every frame at a time and calculatesthat frame according to your edit (treats it as an uncompressed (or DV compressed frame in premieres case) frame and then compresses it again). That's the reason why editingprograms are so bad at compression because they suck at calculating P and B frames. That's why you need to take your file that you rendered and compress it in a seperate app like QTpro or sorenson squeeze, because rendering an edit and compressing are two compleatly different things.

And i wouldnt say that ".mov files are bad for editing" because for starters .mov is just a wrapper, it doesnt say anything about the codec and both final cut pro and avid, the two leading editingpackages work on a .mov based workflow.

[SebKaine]

Thanks a Lot Jelmen !

It is really great to understand the WHY. I fight with premiere and compression for two days ... Well with your explanation it looks more logic to me. In fact to be very precise Premiere has to be able to control each Frame, so he use DV format to achieve this.

Do you know if this can be enhanced? I’m quite lost with all those “art of compression” stuff … here are some few question I have if

-I shoot with HDV in 1280*720 and DV 16/9. I have the choice at capture between .AVI and the native format which one is the best ? At this time I use avi and I convert them in .IFF for compositing. Is it Ok ?

-When I’ve done my compositing what is in your opinion the best ( Size/Quality ) export Format in order to edit with Premiere .AVI , . MOV, Tga or Tiff Sequence …

In other word I’m trying to find how to get the Best Output in term of Quality/Size and get my final movie with excellent quality and a decent size, Before compression ! My Workflow is adobe Creative Suite 2.


Thanks again for your support !

Cheers

SK

[scrimski]

-I shoot with HDV in 1280*720 and DV 16/9. I have the choice at capture between .AVI and the native format which one is the best ? At this time I use avi and I convert them in .IFF for compositing. Is it Ok ?
It won't gain any quality not using the native format, so you may stick with it. Don't know much about the *.iff format, if it offers an uncompressed option, use it.

-When I’ve done my compositing what is in your opinion the best ( Size/Quality ) export Format in order to edit with Premiere .AVI , . MOV, Tga or Tiff Sequence …
It's not a matter of the file format, it's a matter of the compression or codec.
I would use QT(no alpha channel in uncompressed Avi) or Tiffs (because I can work with layers in PS on Tiffs) - uncompressed.

[SebKaine]

Ok thanks a lot for your help scrimski , i will go with .mov for working in premiere. and keep my outpout from premiere to .mov with "Animation" compression.

if i understand , when you input 1Go of uncompressed data (like .mov) , if you work on it and want to output it Uncompressed . The size of this file will always be multiply by a factor like 4 in adobe Premiere ?

does this kind of equation is true with all editing softwares like Avid or FCP :

Outpout_Movie_Uncompressed = K * (Input_Movie_Uncompressed)

with K = Cte beetween let says 3 or 5 ...
For exemple : FinalSequence (4Go) = 4 ( "Animation" compression with QT) * RoughSequence (1Go)

Thanks again for your support Guys !

Cheers

SK

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