ZB3: Rapid Start Interface

[LouisBrowne]

What? Have you tried ZB3 then? Are u saying the interface has improved?

[DruG]

http://www.zbrush.info/wiki/index.php/Rapid_Start

[Continuumx]

This is beautiful!

http://www.zbrush.info/wiki/images/b/ba/RapidStartInterface1.jpg

[Julez4001]

Yes! yes it is.

[mocaw]

fully customizable UI- buttons, trays- apparently everything can be changed and scripted! Macros too!

No 4 view port views yet, but I personally think people SHOULD do most of their detailed modeling in a perspective view anyway as it keeps things from looking flat and requires the artist to look at the model from all angles.

Other than the view ports, the rest looks to have some serious additions- and transpose replaces the move/scale/rotate- no more drop to canvas!

[WyattHarris]

I haven't read it yet but I wonder if you can detach "palettes" ala PhotoShop and move them out of the main window. One of my gripes with ZB2 was not being able to utilize my dual monitors very well. Then again I may have missed something.

[DorisDay]

Looks kinda yummy...

[Sil3]

While following the link posted i went and also checked the FAQ on how to move the Camera around, kinda to see if its like Maya and Mudbox and then i bumped int this:

5.3 What CAMERA FORMAT does ZBrush use?

ZBrush's camera is orthographic. While the gyro is active, perspective can be simulated using the Draw>Persp button and its associated slider. Perspective is not available when the object is in Edit mode.

So...we still cant sculpt in a Perspective view? Am i missing something or reading it bad or is this old information???, because this is how ZB2 would perform regarding Perspective...

Anyway... this Rapid Start interface might "calm down" all those that are smart and brave enough to learn and master a complex 3d aplication, but cant for their own lifes learn to navigate on the old Ui :D

[mocaw]

Yeah, the info page on the camera and perspective seem to be lifted straight out of ZB2's manual...hmmm....

[williamsburroughs]

I want I want I want.... :)

Hope we get our emails soon. :)

Link to the What's New in zB3 :

http://www.zbrush.info/wiki/index.php/What%27s_New_In_ZBrush_3%3F


The Matcap stuff just blows my mind. This is truly an amazing update.

[marcus-civis]

Yeah, the info page on the camera and perspective seem to be lifted straight out of ZB2's manual...hmmm....

That's an error in the Wiki. There is sculpting in perspective or ortho view in ZB3.

[fx81]

only thing i am hoping that they had time to fix is the smoothing group.

from the beta images and the discussions i had on the forums it seem many of the tester were completely unaware of what i was talking about.

and its interesting that when i was looking at on the new video, Scott Spencer says that there is no faceting and he can go high up the divisions to get rid of it.

my point is, if you have real smooth shading and smoothing groups then you wouldnt need to subdivide mesh just to get rid of faceting. i hope zb3 will implement smoothing groups. this faceting also shows ugly grid like noise when you do renders with cavity.

[n-drew]

look at the lower left corner, u see a "persp" button with a "focal length" button/icon. zbrush 3 has definitively a perspective view in the modelling/edit menu. :-D

[leif3d]

only thing i am hoping that they had time to fix is the smoothing group.

from the beta images and the discussions i had on the forums it seem many of the tester were completely unaware of what i was talking about.

and its interesting that when i was looking at on the new video, Scott Spencer says that there is no faceting and he can go high up the divisions to get rid of it.

my point is, if you have real smooth shading and smoothing groups then you wouldnt need to subdivide mesh just to get rid of faceting. i hope zb3 will implement smoothing groups. this faceting also shows ugly grid like noise when you do renders with cavity.

YES!!! I need to go to 8 million polys in order to get pores and veins, or else the model gets pixelated after I pick up the canvas. Is this what you are refering to?...Even though it would be nice to have such detail with lower polycounts and no faceting, I just don't see hhow it's possible. I work around it with a blur tool right before picking the canvas...obviously this doesn't look the same as a 8 million poly model, but oh well...here's hoping for a 64bit version that can handle dozens of millions of polys with no problem...at least that's what they are advertising.:shrug:

[ScottC]

Just so theres no confusion, Im sculpting in perspective mode right now in ZB3. If youre into that, its a simple button toggle. The Faq info must be out of date.

[Mahlikus]

only thing i am hoping that they had time to fix is the smoothing group.


There is smoothing. Always has been. It's just off by default.


Rapid Start Interface and custom keys is Mudbox's biggest competition.
Man, that interface is awesome.

MB has ALOT to worry about! Interface being the least.



No 4 view port views yet,



Based on what Pixologic says as their philosophy, ZB will never have multiple viewports. Actually I will not say never cuz I can't see the distant future but trust me, Traditional 3D and the environments the govern them are of no interest to the Pixo Team. Z is its own universe and they know it.

Just so theres no confusion, Im sculpting in perspective mode right now in ZB3. If youre into that, its a simple button toggle. The Faq info must be out of date.

No its as up-to-date as it can be and that info IS there. Some just either are to excited to read or like me, on a lazy day, just want to be spoon-feed the answers cuz I wanna be sold straight ASAP.

[zeke3d]

dude, zbrush owns mbox, always has, always will.

[Mahlikus]

:applause: :buttrock: :beer:

[ScottC]

Rapid Start Interface and custom keys is Mudbox's biggest competition.
Man, that interface is awesome.

Heh. Interface would actually be one of the remaining reasons to use MB, if youre one of the people who just cant warm to ZB's interface and nav philosophy. In every other regard...well, you'll see for yourself. ZB3 is entirely in its own class. Im having trouble coming to grips with its power...I keep checking my rig to see if someone installed 2 more Cores in there.

But I dont want to be that guy...whatever works for everyone is all good.

[williamsburroughs]

I want to pull out my hair. :)

I need my link=fix.

:D

[Mahlikus]

Heh. Interface would actually be one of the remaining reasons to use MB, if youre one of the people who just cant warm to ZB's interface and nav philosophy. In every other regard...well, you'll see for yourself. ZB3 is entirely in its own class. Im having trouble coming to grips with its power...I keep checking my rig to see if someone installed 2 more Cores in there.

But I dont want to be that guy...whatever works for everyone is all good.

1000% behind you.

There is something I tell people all the time.

A person convinced against their will,
Will always be of the same heart still.

You have to want it. WANT to learn it.
Don't take my word for it. Find the app and
workflow that is your 3D shoes and learn to wear them well.

For me, it's always been ZB and C4D.

[williamsburroughs]

1000% behind you.

There is something I tell people all the time.

A person convinced against their will,
Will always be of the same heart still.

You have to want it. WANT to learn it.
Don't take my word for it. Find the app and
workflow that is your 3D shoes and learn to wear them well.

For me, it's always been ZB and C4D.

I couldn't agree more. I fought against ZB since the beginning because of the UI. But one day I sat down with the demo and the training DVD from DT and it all made sense. I was the one unwilling to change, not the UI. Granted, it would be great if it were as straight forward a UI as MB, but damn...the things we will be able to do with ZB3.

I am floored. It rules. I want it. NOW.

Funny, all of a sudden I feel like Invader ZIM! GIVE IT TO ME NOWWWWWW! :D

[Blaine91555]

It's whatever you learn first I think. I made the jump from traditional media straight into ZBrush and Lightwave. Lightwave is a nightmare for me and ZBrush was easy and natural. I think that was the plan all along. To attract the rest of the artist community I mean. Silo gave me a more gentle introduction into poly modeling and now Lightwave is getting easier but its hard for me to see how it could be considered user friendly by any stretch. It was actually Photoshop that was the gateway. PS was so easy it encouraged me to try other CG items. Bryce was fun but got boring fast. Poser was a waste because I wanted to model not use other peoples work. Vue Infinite was great for the renders but still no modeling. I took one look at the ZBrush promo and it was a no brainer. This is genuine software to create art rather than hyped up CAD software. Art should not require technical ability or scripting skills. There is no correlation between the two. After being taught by people who would break a ruler if they saw one on your desk the 3D software WAS like going back to fifth grade art where a perspective drawing of a cube would net you an "A". The computer is finally becoming a fine art tool.

[williamsburroughs]

It's whatever you learn first I think. I made the jump from traditional media straight into ZBrush and Lightwave. Lightwave is a nightmare for me and ZBrush was easy and natural. I think that was the plan all along. To attract the rest of the artist community I mean. Silo gave me a more gentle introduction into poly modeling and now Lightwave is getting easier but its hard for me to see how it could be considered user friendly by any stretch. It was actually Photoshop that was the gateway. PS was so easy it encouraged me to try other CG items. Bryce was fun but got boring fast. Poser was a waste because I wanted to model not use other peoples work. Vue Infinite was great for the renders but still no modeling. I took one look at the ZBrush promo and it was a no brainer. This is genuine software to create art rather than hyped up CAD software. Art should not require technical ability or scripting skills. There is no correlation between the two. After being taught by people who would break a ruler if they saw one on your desk the 3D software WAS like going back to fifth grade art where a perspective drawing of a cube would net you an "A". The computer is finally becoming a fine art tool.

Chill Winston! :)*

*movie reference to a Guy Ritchie film. :D

[Blaine91555]

:) :thumbsup:
In Alaska we are always chillin.
Us old farts earned our podiums.
I'm about to take the single barrel cure.

[Sil3]

That's an error in the Wiki. There is sculpting in perspective or ortho view in ZB3.


Uffff... got me worried for a second :scream:

It's whatever you learn first I think. I made the jump from traditional media straight into ZBrush and Lightwave. Lightwave is a nightmare for me and ZBrush was easy and natural. I think that was the plan all along. To attract the rest of the artist community I mean. Silo gave me a more gentle introduction into poly modeling and now Lightwave is getting easier but its hard for me to see how it could be considered user friendly by any stretch. It was actually Photoshop that was the gateway. PS was so easy it encouraged me to try other CG items. Bryce was fun but got boring fast. Poser was a waste because I wanted to model not use other peoples work. Vue Infinite was great for the renders but still no modeling. I took one look at the ZBrush promo and it was a no brainer. This is genuine software to create art rather than hyped up CAD software. Art should not require technical ability or scripting skills. There is no correlation between the two. After being taught by people who would break a ruler if they saw one on your desk the 3D software WAS like going back to fifth grade art where a perspective drawing of a cube would net you an "A". The computer is finally becoming a fine art tool.

LW or others seem "easy" for us that are used to those Uis and workflows, but they are not easy at all, specially for someone that is only used to be an "old school" artist, and we the CG "geeks" only notice that it's not easy when we have to teach someone how to do something on how to get you started, after 10-20 min of talking and showing stuff and then we realised that the overwelm of info we are sending to the other poor guy, who is complelty lost looking at we are doing.

Those are the times were I take notice that to do the most simple things takes huge amounts of information that majority of the times are not Art related at all, its all Tech stuff, but we are so into it that we loose perception of it and start to think that is all natural, then from time to time clever guys come up with amazing tools that makes us want to ditch the geek factor all along :bounce:

[fx81]

There is smoothing. Always has been. It's just off by default.


lol, you either dont know or understand what i am talking about. that smoothing id divided mesh which is still faceted. its not smooth normals/smooth shade.

i already explained it in detail here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4323133&postcount=64

if you want, read from page 5 and onward http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=484401&page=5&pp=15

zbrush always renders in faceted mode, but it can be fixed by adding smoothing groups or vertex normals. its nothing impossible for a 3d rendered to have vertex normals or smoothing groups.

[richcz3]

Downloaded it last night.
I suggest jumping into the Rapid UI at the start. It's probably the fastest way to get to dig into the new feel using a minimized (less cluttered) UI. 5 minutes in and w0w. Now ... damn!! - I have to make time for this. Back to work I go. :scream:

[ScottC]

lol, you either dont know or understand what i am talking about. that smoothing id divided mesh which is still faceted. its not smooth normals/smooth shade.

i already explained it in detail here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4323133&postcount=64

if you want, read from page 5 and onward http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=484401&page=5&pp=15

zbrush always renders in faceted mode, but it can be fixed by adding smoothing groups or vertex normals. its nothing impossible for a 3d rendered to have vertex normals or smoothing groups.


I always take heart when people shilling for competing packages are reduced to complaining about things so inconsequential they approach meaninglessness, because its all they have left. What you are talking about just doesnt matter in Zbrush3.

[Bael]

lol, you either dont know or understand what i am talking about. that smoothing id divided mesh which is still faceted. its not smooth normals/smooth shade.

i already explained it in detail here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=4323133&postcount=64

if you want, read from page 5 and onward http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=484401&page=5&pp=15

zbrush always renders in faceted mode, but it can be fixed by adding smoothing groups or vertex normals. its nothing impossible for a 3d rendered to have vertex normals or smoothing groups.

Without a doubt ZBrush uses a voxel approximation of some sort rather than standard polygonal mesh rendering - which isn't quite so trivial to fake smooth shading with.

And really, after playing around with Z3 last night, I don't think you'll need smooth shading. Even on my ancient PC I was editing a 2.5mil model silky-smooth with nothing hidden. In Z2 it was a slide-show on anything nearing half a million.. I can only imagine how well it runs on modern PCs.

[marcus-civis]

You can fake smoothed normals in ZBrush by setting the Tool>Display Properties>ES slider to about 20. You need to turn off Quick Edit and set the DSmooth slider to greater than 0 to be able to do this.

I think real smoothed normals would probably slow down ZBrush's performance somewhat, and it's pretty pointless with meshes above about 1 million polys.

[fx81]

You can fake smoothed normals in ZBrush by setting the Tool>Display Properties>ES slider to about 20. You need to turn off Quick Edit and set the DSmooth slider to greater than 0 to be able to do this.

Dsmooth is pointless, thats why its turned of by default. when turned on it just shows you a divided version of your mesh which looks nothing like a smooth shaded version of the low res mesh.

anyways, in reality i am not going to render a 50 million character in any production environment. i would like to see the real representation at 50K poly character.
and if you have the ability to turn on/off smooth shading like in mudbox then you could at least see how the mesh would look like when in a lower suddivision, then turn it off and model at high res. i think this is a big problem pixilogic over looked.


I think real smoothed normals would probably slow down ZBrush's performance somewhat, and it's pretty pointless with meshes above about 1 million polys.

if you had real smooth normals i dont think you would even need to go up to a silly level of subdivision like 50 million triangles. it seems like you are subdividing your entire mesh just to get rid of faceting(which looks really ugly when rendered with cavity and that new zb3 shader)

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