When's the new UI coming to Blender?

[ctguitars]

Hi Private,

If you just poke around the www.blender.org (http://www.blender.org) site under Development menu item you would be amazed what you would find :)

http://www.blender.org/development/current-projects/changes-since-243/

Release date unknown, hopefully october/november 2007? - apparently - ver 2.50 is the major UI upgrade release,

Cheers
Aidan

[RCAS]

The UI ain't going to change any time soon, its is going to be updated, not changed.

The UI is good as it is, it only needs a bit more consistency in some of the buttons and allow for some additional widgets, nothing more, people keep complaining about it without trying it out.

The Blender UI works and is one of the best out there, once you take the time to actually try to understand how it works.


-- Rui --

[carnageRPM]

I hope they dont change the UI. I like the UI cause its in stages. First Modle so your at the mesh tools then you add a Material then you Render. When i first tried Maya i had to hunt around for things. In alot of other programs things are grouped reletive to each other, in Blender its grouped reletive to how someone would modle an object. Did you guys see the comments about Blender on Slashdot? alot of anti Blender stuff just cause thay dont understand it.

[DrJZoidberg]

The Blender UI is really great, if you are unterstanding it. =)

[rtd]

The UI doesn't need to be changed. However many people use other software in addition to Blender. All that's needed is the ability to customize shortcuts so that those that desire it can move more easily between apps.

[private]

http://www.blender.org/development/current-projects/changes-since-243/

Release date unknown, hopefully october/november 2007? - apparently - ver 2.50 is the major UI upgrade release,

Cheers
Aidan

Thanks for the information. That's exactly what I was looking for.

[mech7]

Personally i do hope they change the UI.. the large star trek enterprise navigation on the bottom always scares me away from the app :)

[masater]

Well, blender could use a UI rewrite, but not to change it but to speed it up and make it more extensible, and I think that is what they would do, an abstraction that would allow to work as allways and to make some changes to UI. And as far as I know, the UI rewrite wolud allow to map custom keystrokes to actions

[fktt]

Personally i do hope they change the UI.. the large star trek enterprise navigation on the bottom always scares me away from the app :) if you mean the buttons window then whats so scary bout that? theres actually less butons tan there seemes to be at first.. :rolleyes:

[Apollux]

Here we go again.

[fktt]

Here we go again. :scream: yup..

[CDMJ]

I was using the node window today, and I was trying to adjust the position of a scaled element in a composite video with the translate node when I got the urge to right click the visual object in the viewer and drag it where I wanted it to be - then I started laughing because that only selected the viewer again.

Little things like that make me wonder what I'd be able to do in 5 years with Blender's interface, and I get to dreaming of full interaction in the UI :) I mean, just a little while ago when I got into Blender, they were halfway done with Elephants Dream and all these new features were added, then further additions and tweaks happened and I thought I'd never get the hang of nodes or the NLA..... so I keep reading the wiki and the blenderartist posts, and keep trying to apply what I read to what I can.

The UI is needing organization in a few areas, and the custom key mapping and macros, and pie menus, will all make for a very streamlined package, yet they won't make it easier to "get it" unless users that have been in the other packages set up mappings to ease those users into it, like the themes we have seen lately, only closer to key maps as well.

Blender doesn't take more to get used to, any more than the first time you start using any new software, so I stay away from that line of thinking - as it is, I have a learning disability, and I can use the UI as it is just fine, thank you. I am looking forward to experiencing the improvements the devs are making/ going to make, and I hope that they enjoy their efforts in the making of these improvements like I enjoy using their code in my daily life.

Okay, time to get back to Blendering - maybe I'll get something together to show on this forum with more effort:)
Craigo

[Duhast]

Personally i do hope they change the UI.. the large star trek enterprise navigation on the bottom always scares me away from the app :)


I'm pretty sure that 99% of the people that dislike the interface are referring to this one (even if they say that they don't)... and yes, it WAS a mess:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6954/oldguifq5.jpg

That was 4 years ago!!! It's not like that anymore.

[fktt]

ah, right... as opposed to this one ofcorse..! ;)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5654/screenienf5.jpg

[teamcarlisle]

I am of the opinion that the current UI is awesome, I started out in C4D, and then moved to blender, after getting used to blender I tried C4D again, and I decided that Blender's one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the mouse approach is great. But I also think that to accomodate other people it would be a good idea to create a new ui that one could switch back and forth from, kinda like how you can change between different themes

[QMag]

The current UI of blender (and the whole blender design) is focused on speed of usage over a short learning curve. All of us experienced users probably like the UI because everything just seems to be there when you need it, you don't need to think about it, it just pops right at you with a few clicks that you make almost automaticaly.

However, personally I'm excited about the new UI revamp. Interesting to see what the blender devs can make up this time ;).

[RetroTorque]

Though blender's ui makes more sense to me than say lightwave, I find the charges of lazyness leveled against people who want to use a different ui unproductive.

If any one of you have ever wondered why people think Blender users are arrogant and elitist, there's one of the reasons right there.

[fktt]

ok, wait now, like so... are we the lazy ones or the other way around? (ps. i know for a fact that im a lazy bastard..!) :D

[JSKURIAS]

I am of the opinion that the current UI is awesome, I started out in C4D, and then moved to blender, after getting used to blender I tried C4D again, and I decided that Blender's one hand on the keyboard and one hand on the mouse approach is great. But I also think that to accomodate other people it would be a good idea to create a new ui that one could switch back and forth from, kinda like how you can change between different themesI've never used C4D or any of the so-called industry standards. Honestly I cannot afford to buy any one of them. Just makes me curious about the sudden switch from a $1000-$3000 worth of software to a free one like Blender. Then I visit sites that carries those apps and I see stunning images done with them. I really don't get it.

[LetterRip]

stunning images can be done with any reasonably featureful 3d software given a talented artist.

The base price of the other 3D packages is 1000$ or so - however most charge a great deal more for things like fluid dynamics simulation; hair tools; 3d painting; physics simulation; cloth; generally once you get a feature set comparable to Blenders the price can be upward of 5,000$ for a single seat of the software. So the question then is is the added price of the commercial software worth it to the artist? In many cases the answer is yes - long time familiarity with a particular work flow; commercial support; up to date documention; and a large base of commercial training are all benefits to keeping with some of the large proprietary packages. However if you are willing to trade those benefits to gain the benefits of completely free software with unlimited seats; reasonable documentation; and community based support -then you can have a fully viable animation studio for no cost per seat - something that could make a major difference especially for freelancers and studios that are just starting up.

LetterRip

[teamcarlisle]

I've never used C4D or any of the so-called industry standards. Honestly I cannot afford to buy any one of them. Just makes me curious about the sudden switch from a $1000-$3000 worth of software to a free one like Blender. Then I visit sites that carries those apps and I see stunning images done with them. I really don't get it.

I never said I bought it. One of the guys I work with had the student version (about $300) and has permission from the bosses to use it here at work when we have free time. "I started out" in C4D learning from my friend on his copy. He eventually gave me his student copy of C4D when he bought a new version. I'm merely a hobbyist. I did buy the C4 engine and The Torque game engine though, but realized that if I ever made something that was worth selling I couldn't because of the restrictions of the student liscense of C4D, and buying a full C4d liscense was out of the question. Thats why I switched to blender originally.

[Catboy85]

Before I started using Blender I had tried 3ds-max, Maya, Lightwave, and Silo. and I think I have figured out what the problem is with blenders interface. It's different, it takes most of the things you would expect from a 3D package and turns them on their ear. yet somehow it remains just as good, if not better. The learning curve was so steep because I had come to expect a particular layout and way of doing things, and had to learn a whole new one. Now that I know this one though I never want to go back

[thatoneguy]

UIs are like bratty annoying children they should neither be seen nor heard. :D

[private]

Hi Private,

If you just poke around the www.blender.org (http://www.blender.org) site under Development menu item you would be amazed what you would find :)

http://www.blender.org/development/current-projects/changes-since-243/

Release date unknown, hopefully october/november 2007? - apparently - ver 2.50 is the major UI upgrade release,

Cheers
Aidan

It's almost the end of December now. Does anyone have an updated? I tried some of the links Aidan kindly provided, but no luck on new UI information.

(this type of post really riles up current Blender users for some reason. It's not meant to. I'm just looking for information and waiting for a starting point when I wish to experiment with Blender more.)

[Meta-Androcto]

hi, I wouldn't wait for a major ui change to learn blender.
I don't know what people are expecting from the ui changes.
It won't be that much different.
Better organized, more customization options for the ui, that'll be about it.
When it is mentioned 'ui changes' it seems like people are expecting blender to change the interface entirely. This will not happen, nor will a blender 'lite' version with a simplified ui.
Nor will it get a max, maya or c4d interface or any other softwares interface for that matter.
changing to blender is no different than going from c4d to maya, there is a initial period of disorientation, followed by confusion & then as the new software is learnt, the knowledge that all 3d apps are basically the same give or take a function, it's just learning the software's interface, where are the buttons that do this? ahh there they are!
most functions even have the same names across the board of 3d apps.
learning blender now can only be beneficial, waiting ( at least another 3months ) for a largely unknown & undocumented, proposed ui change, is a waste of time.
to learn anything you must desire to learn something new.
If your waiting for blender to look & play like max, you'll be waiting forever.
m.a.

[thondal]

I read somewhere that there wouldnt be a major change in the ui of blender. But more like the speed of the ui. Rewrite of the scripts that do the menu work and stuff. For an even faster GUI... but it could be that i read something and made something up. I'm never quite sure when it has gone more than a week on stuff like this. I think it might have been on a thread on blenderartist.org. So i'll shut up on that for now :P

One other thing though... I too have tried maya, lightwave and 3ds max.. think i've tried wings and anim8tor or something a year or so also. But my problem was this (for me.. others i know will feel differnt, just saying what i felt) Maya = really didn't have the time to start on it, so but seemed okey. 3ds max i used for 1 month, but the editing tools i felt were a bit too advanced or hard to get into for my part, i know many feel they are very good. Lightwave, i actually used for about 3-4 months and i loved it. And i'm missing the feature "spinquad" in blender... i really hope they will add that some day. But that was all... i have used blender for perhaps 2 years now on and off. And i'm still in love with the GUI and it's tools.


...just my opinions.

-thondal-

[LetterRip]

Isn't spin quad the same as CTRL-E rotate edge in blender?

LetterRip

[thondal]

I haven't tried that feature yet... hm.. I must test it out when i get back from vacation. But it sounds at it might be.. my hope would then allready been fullfilled without me knowing it :P

thanks. ;)

-thondal-

[xsitar]

i wouldn't mind if blender received option to either "ui behave like xsi" or "ui behave like maya".

i think that a lot more people would consider blender if it had a slightly more similiar ui workflow like those mainstream examples so that people don't have to deal with learning a complex package again or at least it makes it easier to learn it.

[fktt]

i wouldn't mind if blender received option to either "ui behave like xsi" or "ui behave like maya".

i think that a lot more people would consider blender if it had a slightly more similiar ui workflow like those mainstream examples so that people don't have to deal with learning a complex package again or at least it makes it easier to learn it.

im guessing that as many others you essentially are talking about customizable key-mapping, witch essentially should be in the making(as the new events system should enable that). :)

And once the key's are customizable im sure that plenty of people will make custom 'other apps-a-like' hot-key preset(s) files and share them online. :) (heck, perhaps even bundle them together with special GUI Layout's)!

as for why the rewrite has been delayed is becaused of the fact that Ton Roosendaal has been busy and constantly becoming even more busy to re-write the sys.
yet hes the only one who is suited(from what ive understood) to re-write it.
iirc. arround the begining of december he started working on it?
could be wrong and it could have been a little earlier. :)

[nebopolis]

Ton has already begun work on this, and the first little pieces of it have been released to the light of day. take a look at the most recent sunday dev meeting (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/December_23rd_2007)to see the stuff he has been working on.

[fktt]

take a look at the most recent sunday dev meeting (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/December_23rd_2007)to see the stuff he has been working on.

heheh, yeah noticed after making my last post, most awesome, it is, indeed! :D

[kattkieru]

Yea gods, that sunday meeting update is the Best. Christmas. Present. EVAR. We really need to band together as a community to do something nice for the devs.

[RCAS]

The way Blender works won't change, so if anyone is expecting a Max or Maya alike forget about it.

From what I understand the work being done so far is in the core system and some readjustments on the Buttons Window and that is it.

So, what you can visually expect from the new UI (as everyone likes to call it) is:
- Reworked buttons window and buttons naming
- Shortcut keys remapping (so you can change the shortcut to something like Max or Maya)
- Even more flexible Window system (headers available also on the sides and not just top and bottom, and more)
- Drag and Drop support
- Support for more devices (possibly dual mouse setups and the likes)
- Faster UI


What you can expect in terms of development:
- Better code
- No more duplicate code
- Better Python Integration
- Visual code separated from the functional code
- Easier way to write more ui goodies


What you will not get with the new UI:
- Interface like any other 3D application
- Way of work like any other 3D application


Everyone should understand that Blender has its own workflow and the User Interface reflects that. And this workflow won't change anytime soon, since it is one of the best things Blender has, one that makes you really fast when you know the tool.

So, if you want to learn Blender, start now, cause it won't have any dramatic user interface changes in the near future.

[Mattattattatt]

The UI's great. the problem is that a lot of common bits are hidden in context menus. Personally, I prefer this to having the UI cluttered with icons. I think that it could stand to have some extra bits in, like a proper material browser, and maybe optional toolbars for those who don't like using hot keys and context menus (tbh I got used to the latter kind of system with Nendo and can't see any better way).

I think Blender needs as little rewriting as possible to continue to succeed... maintaining backwards compatibility as well as all the documentation and tutorials out there slightly relevant is crucial - already it's hard following some older tutorials due to UI changes and knowing if scripts should still work when they appear not to.

[hyenaman]

Hey guys...
I completely agree...
Imagine the chaos that will ensue after customizable key maps...
every tutorial will have a different key mapping sys...
one dude will go cntrl+g the other will go shift+k...man it will send the beginners running for the hills...
;)

[apocalypse2012]

I am a Blender newbie. I have been working in 3d apps going back to TurboSilver. For the passed 14 years I have been working in 3d Studio, then 3dsmax. I have worked exclusively in 3dsmax since the v1 beta. As you can imagine, I am very used to that system.

My initial experience with Blender was one of such utter disorientation that I had numerous false starts trying to get into it. Then I finally just detirmined that I was going to learn it even if the UI did suck balls. So I downloaded some video tutorials and a couple of PDF files.

Within about 15 minutes I could clearly see what the UI has going for it. It is clean. Learn basic viewport navigation and the major interface components, you can quickly begin to assimilate the workflow. It seems very internally consistent, the way 3dsmax used to be before so much got bolted on.

The only major fault I have is that there does not seem to be enough to the UI. Or rather, not every thing appears readily accessable. That is something I fear in open source software. If I don't know that a feature is there, then it might as well not be. Community driven documentation does not always close the gaps.

I hope the interface doesn't change. It is a cool setup. Custom Hotkeys will help. Custom UI for python scripts will get me to most of anything else I might need.

[paintbox]

Hypotheticly Why not have an UI that will be infinitely customisable?

90% will leave it on default anyways, 10% will go crazy and mimick other apps and find new ways to do things.

No-one gets hurt.

Tutorials will explain from the default anyways. The default will remain, the default.

Don't fear change.

[fulg0re]

I am a Blender newbie. I have been working in 3d apps going back to TurboSilver. For the passed 14 years I have been working in 3d Studio, then 3dsmax. I have worked exclusively in 3dsmax since the v1 beta. As you can imagine, I am very used to that system.

My initial experience with Blender was one of such utter disorientation that I had numerous false starts trying to get into it. Then I finally just detirmined that I was going to learn it even if the UI did suck balls. So I downloaded some video tutorials and a couple of PDF files.

Within about 15 minutes I could clearly see what the UI has going for it. It is clean. Learn basic viewport navigation and the major interface components, you can quickly begin to assimilate the workflow. It seems very internally consistent, the way 3dsmax used to be before so much got bolted on.

The only major fault I have is that there does not seem to be enough to the UI. Or rather, not every thing appears readily accessable. That is something I fear in open source software. If I don't know that a feature is there, then it might as well not be. Community driven documentation does not always close the gaps.

I hope the interface doesn't change. It is a cool setup. Custom Hotkeys will help. Custom UI for python scripts will get me to most of anything else I might need.


I had the same problems with blender when I tried it few years ago, but then decided to invest some time to learn it, downloaded the video tutorials and learned the ui and basic stuff in few days.

There are some must-see videotutorials from Glen Moyes, when you watch these you will see that blender has a great ui. One other thing that scares people away from blender is the default ui theme, which can be easyl changed in the user preferences menu.
http://www.glenmoyes.com/blender/video_tutorials/

there are release logs on blender.org, there you can find all the new features since version 2.30
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/

[private]

Can someone provide some links on new information? Is there any new information?

[fktt]

any news, well the peach DVD should be out by the end of the month,
so Ton should have more time starting from there on.

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev

[Boone]

I think Blender is pretty good for what it is. However, the only thing that really stops me from using it is the way you rotate the view. If it had Silo's default setup for navigating the viewport it would really go along way in getting more people to switch to Blender. But at the moment its a real pain in the ass to get used to...:argh:

Another thing, although not a problem as such and merely an observation, is when Blender users say "It pays to have one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse at all times!" - that applies to every other app out there!:shrug:

But at the end of the day Blender's strength comes from being free and able to match most commercial app features. You cant really complain.

[Michael-Williamson]

I think Blender is pretty good for what it is. However, the only thing that really stops me from using it is the way you rotate the view. If it had Silo's default setup for navigating the viewport it would really go along way in getting more people to switch to Blender. But at the moment its a real pain in the ass to get used to...:argh:


Can't remember offhand, but isn't the Silo default just Maya navigation?

For ages I'd say the same thing about Maya, (having come from a Lightwave background, which is identical to blender nav in "emulate 3 button mouse mode")


I'm getting boring on this topic, but I think all 3d apps should allow you to customise the view nav like Silo does. Maya, Max , Lightwave and XSI each has there own take on keys/mouse for view nav with no common ground. Navigating the view is the most basic and frequent interaction that we do, yet none of these apps allows you to customise it.


I've just recently gone back to Silo having it run on linux through wine like a native app now. My setup allows me to navigate the views like maya and blender simultaneously in case I forget where I am. (I switch back and forth from Maya to blender a lot)

[chewedon]

If it had Silo's default setup for navigating the viewport it would really go along way in getting more people to switch to Blender. But at the moment its a real pain in the ass to get used to...:argh:




Erm. . .

1) Pull down Blender's user preference window (hidden above the 3D viewport).
2) Click on Views & Control (or maybe Edit Methods can't remember which)
3) Change the viewing method from Trackball to Turn table.

Now it rotates the view like Maya.

[Boone]

Re: Chewedom.

WHAT!? I've been stewing up for years over this and all I had to do was THAT?!?:eek:

Anyway, thanks! It feels like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I feel kind of stupid as I knew that drop down menu was there all along but simply didnt bother to try out that particular option.

Saying that, I mainly use Max, Maya, Silo and a dash of Lightwave so I simply havent had quality time to spend with Blender. But with a rotation method I'm more comfortable with I can actually overlook the button setup. And once they introduce remappable keys that too wont be a problem.

Well, thanks once again.:beer:


Re: Micheal-Williamson.

Funny you say that because I've spent most of my time using Maya. I still consider it the most comfortable to use, but went over to MAX and never did get as comfortable with the interface. My general opinion of the two is that Max covers everything and is very powerful but Maya has better programming and is more comfortable. For a programmer like me, Maya is a dream.

For a job application(ages ago) I was asked to bang out some low-polygon models. They said experiance in Blender was preferable but were willing to accept work from other packages. In one morning I had figured out Blender's modelling tools but just couldnt get my head round the navigation. I really had no choice but to do it all in 3dsMax(my current software at the time). I told a few friends about my experiance and they said try Silo. Bitting my lip I tried Silo and it worked an absolute treat. It really felt like Maya but with just the modelling and given special powers!:cool:

I've always wanted to use a Silo + Blender combination, as Silo is the most powerful modelling package for its price. Blender on the other hand has more than enough features to handle low-polygon game character animation and is just a free download away...

[wijaku]

I think blender UI is confuse for first time use only, but will like it in more use.

[wijaku]

i love blender UI

[ysvry]

The Blender U I is really great, if you unterstand I T.

just to add my coin to the ui debate again lol.

what realy needs to change in blender is glass rendering. :P

[fktt]

what realy needs to change in blender is glass rendering. :P
you mean it needs caustics, or..?

[runejw]

User Interface Design is commonly underrated unfortunately.

The fact that noone knows for sure if/when/what (if any) changes there will be by the developers indicates the classic mistake: Developers living in their own world, never actually doing any UI testing/feedback sessions with new users but just leveraging their own experience.

Of course once you get to know a UI it generally grows on you like a familiar menu. No matter how illogical and unstructured that menu initially seems, it will by virtue of being static become familiar and hence speed up your work. Change in an established UI is therefore not viewed positively by most that have invested time and effort in learning it.

However there are ways of solving this for example by introducing a radically new UI as an option - while keeping the old as default or an option.

Back to the underrated part - by that I mean that making a UI that is both intuitive and efficient is indeed very difficult but ultimately very rewarding if done right.

Again some people equate intuitive to what they feel is an efficient and familiar UI once they got it figured out. But IMHO an intuitive UI is one step further by also adressing the requirement of being easy for the new user to figure out.

[Rezonance]

Erm. . .

1) Pull down Blender's user preference window (hidden above the 3D viewport).
2) Click on Views & Control (or maybe Edit Methods can't remember which)
3) Change the viewing method from Trackball to Turn table.

Now it rotates the view like Maya.

The only issue I had with that was that there was no way that I could roll the camera if needed be. Any advice? Thanks.

[Lipton67]

No matter how illogical and unstructured that menu initially seemsGood that in blender it is logical and structured :)
each action i can found in menus and near each action i can found written hotkey so after some time i will remember it and will didnt need use menu anymore. but will use hotkey. good for me.

One thing i dont like/ I want option to switch off grabing whis mouse cursor and right button.When you choose vertexes whith the same right mouse button -grabing began when you dont whant it.so i loose time for esc this action.

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