Animation Mentor Class and C4d

[LucentDreams]

find someone that is capable of making a good rig. It doesn't have to look the same and such, it jsut needs to be a flexible posable rig. You'll have to be able to take their best input (they don't know your rig and what its capable of) and adapt it, but the focus is on animation, not on the app or rig for that matter so you should be fine.

[Mechis]

I'm an AM student, I did the first 2 terms and am taking a break for a while.

It's true, you are allowed to use whatever program you want... or even draw or do it in stop motion... but I would really suggest you use maya. I went into AM thinking I was going to use XSI... but after a week, I got maya. The price isn't crazy b/c you can get the student version, which is relatively cheap.

All the AM rigs are in maya and they provide support for the rigs. If you use a different program, you provide your own support (and why spend your time rigging? You're at AM to learn how to animate!). I don't think anyone in the program is using C4d. Also, if you don't use maya, you'll miss out on the tools that AM provides-- there's an arc tracker, the name plate that shows the frames, GUI for picking controls, etc, etc...

~Mechis
ps. For anyone who is wondering, AM is worth it... It's expensive, but it is worth it.

[cvliv]

could it be said then that the animation techinques learned in the class could be translated to c4d once i got done with the class, assuming that i (or someone i hired) has the skills to build a felxible stable rig and a well built model to support it. one of the issues i have now is not knowing where to start. its hard to be a good character animator if you dont know the intricacies of character animation and what makes something good into something great. and of course not knowing that makes it near impossible to build a rig for things you are not even aware of...

so i assume if i took the class and bought maya (*groan* not another 3d app) i could then be WAY better in c4d. after all the class teaches you how to animate, and those skills translate. i assume also that those rigging needs would translate and for the most part would be addressed in c4d when i needed them.

and after learning strata 3d, form z, that pos macromedia 3d app, electric image, lightwave and now c4d i would perform unnatural acts to avoid yet another mental investment, not to mention a monitary one.

HMMM...one could try to rig an AM character the exact same way in c4d tho... but that person is not me. any takers? how about an AM rigging challenge?

[LucentDreams]

All the AM rigs are in maya and they provide support for the rigs. If you use a different program, you provide your own support (and why spend your time rigging? You're at AM to learn how to animate!). I don't think anyone in the program is using C4d. Also, if you don't use maya, you'll miss out on the tools that AM provides-- there's an arc tracker, the name plate that shows the frames, GUI for picking controls, etc, etc...

not to get into an app war but thats one reason not to use maya, those things are built into cinema and much better integrated.

Would agree though that using maya is a good choice, more familiar instructors will be able to help you out a little easier, and it never hurts to know more than one app.

[LucentDreams]

HMMM...one could try to rig an AM character the exact same way in c4d tho... but that person is not me. any takers? how about an AM rigging challenge?


the models are unimportant and honestly much of the rig is, well not unimportant, but fairly generic. I mean the rigs they use are very well made but trust me you'll leave the course and encounter far worse rigs, I just helped a friend figure out a rig they were sent for a TV series animation test for a studio, and was appalled at how poorly made the rig was.

Animation mentor isn't a fan of rigs that look like their characters, and understandably so, it can allow you to look like your attending animation mentor, which honestly wont' help one out if their animation sucks, but it can' hurt animation mentor if people think thats the kind of crap their teaching.

[cvliv]

how much time did it take you to complete the weekly assignments?

do you find your skills translating well to c4d?

can you elaborate on the experience at all?

thanks




All the AM rigs are in maya and they provide support for the rigs. If you use a different program, you provide your own support (and why spend your time rigging? You're at AM to learn how to animate!). I don't think anyone in the program is using C4d. Also, if you don't use maya, you'll miss out on the tools that AM provides-- there's an arc tracker, the name plate that shows the frames, GUI for picking controls, etc, etc...

~Mechis
ps. For anyone who is wondering, AM is worth it... It's expensive, but it is worth it.

[sandidolsak]

iam also thinking to apply AM some day and i would use cinema...

[51M0N]

Hi Cortland,

as stated earlier, you're there to learn animation, and what program you use is practically unimportant, and it should be the last of your worries. Now if you don't know how to use c4d for animation that well, and also you don't have rigs to work with & you can't make your own, then it's another issue!

If you don't feel comfortable animating in c4d then it would be easier going with maya, cause you'd benefit from the training videos of animating in maya, from the support and from using the neat animation mentor rigs.

It's true that you get nice tools for maya, and it's also true that most of them are already integrated into c4d, so that doesn't make any difference.

It's good to know to use maya, cause it's the mainly used program in the industry and that's the main reason I'd advice you to not ignore maya, but animating in c4d isn't that different.

Just remember, in case you choose another program, you'd better make sure that you won't have any problems with both the rigs, and the program, cause you'd be on your own.
Unfortunatelly, I'm not aware of any students making c4d versions of the animation mentor rigs (there are some for xsi).
I'd personally advice you to at least try the animation mentor rigs, to see their functions (there are videos for them where you can see what they can do), but also to "feel" them and make sure that your rig behaves that good too.

I finished the first term using mostly maya, and now I'm making a character to use cinema 4d for future assignments cause I just like it better.
Some other reasons I want my own rig, is because I feel creative, I want to create my own character, to implement more of me to my work and potential showreel material.

[cvliv]

i would love to learn to rig. but as i stated before it might be difficult to know how to take a good rig and make it great if i dont know the ins and outs of serious character animation like that taught in AM. are you aware of any good tutorials for rigging? i have found beginner to intermediate ones (like the one on the r10 disc) and those have served me well, but any truly advanced stuff out there for c4d? or is the rig tutorial on the r10 disc the level of what is used in AM. that said i would love to hear your experiences with the class using c4d.

[Sammer]

Hey cvliv,

I finished the AM program last year.

A couple of things you might want to keep in mind when making your decisions are:

The principles of animation translate to any program or medium. Only the buttons, pencils or armatures change.

You can effectively complete AM using Maya and only have to learn a few shortcut keys. The orientation and "how to's" provided will get you going with no problem.

Your going to AM to learn Character Animation not any other area of CG. Most students (even experienced and/or currently employed professional animators) found there was more than enough to keep them occupied with just the animation assignments without having to model and rig, too.

If you do use Cinema (or another app) make sure you check on what the model requirements are. I switched to using Cinema/Motionbuilder during the second quarter and the first time I used a model that didn't look like the one provided by AM I was told while you can use any app. the models need to look like AM models (you can use your own models/rigs for your short). I stayed with C4D/MB for the rest of that class but had to spend a lot of time setting up the characters. Unless you are a rigging phenom I would recommend against it.

To sum up... Maya ain't that bad (it just has it's guts on the outside!), for $250-$350 for the student version your getting 18 months of training in Maya and your able to focus and spend way more time on animating.....

Based on my experience and from what you've posted here I would strongly recommend against your using Cinema. I would encourage you to look on using Maya not as a bad thing but as an opportunity to learn one of the most widely used programs in the industry while focusing on animation. (stress the "focusing on animation")

Whatever you decide, you are certainly in for a lot of fun... some hard work, too... but a lot of fun.

Good luck!

Sam

[51M0N]

There are rigging tutorials around, maybe not for R10, but combine them with some basic mocca 3 rigging tutorials and you're good to go. Here's a couple of places you can find tutorials:
by searching here,
http://www.meltinglight.com
http://www.c4dportal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

i would love to learn to rig. but as i stated before it might be difficult to know how to take a good rig and make it great if i dont know the ins and outs of serious character animation

That is so true.. before I joined AM I didn't really have an opinion of what I'd want from a rig. It's not just what it can do that's important... it's how you controll it so you can animate sufficient, easy and fast.
AM rigs are complex, but easy to use. They've got some functions that I'll probably never use but they're there just in case. They do look pretty advanced to me.

I'd advice you to not just blindly follow a tutorial to make a rig. Just get small parts of how each part is built, and make your own, after you figure out *what* you want to make!

Still if you're not feeling positive about making a sufficient model/rig of your own, you shouldn't take time from the assignments for this cause and just go with AM's.

i would love to hear your experiences with the class using c4d
Really, I'm positive there won't be any difference. It's true I got used on animating with maya and the AM rigs, but I'm sure I can customize c4d to my liking. I'll just have to make a rig to work the way I got used to.

Edit:
Hmm.. just saw Sam's post, and I agree with everything he said. I still prefer c4d for me though. We may not need to model/render but many people still do it. And seeing how easier rigging became in R10, I don't think you have to be an expert to make livable rigs, that stand up to the assignment requirements. It was a mess until R9 but now it's easier to make something of your own.
Still I shouldn't urge you to try something you'll end up regretting, so I'd say listen to Sam first, and then to me (I am about to swap to c4d myself anyway)!

What intruiged me is that it seems the models should be basically the same.? From my understanding so far, I thought that we could use another simple bi-ped character for the assignments. At least that's what the requirement is. I figured out it should look a bit like the AM's model from an anatomy's point of view, like it shouldn't be a fat guy, when the AM model is thin. Now I'm not really sure for that, they may want the same model.

[Mechis]

Yep. Everyone has answered your questions :) Just to be clear, I never said that you couldn't use C4d, I just said it would be more convenient to use maya.

Time commitment for assignments varies. It's pretty easy in the first term, but hours increase a lot second term. That's why I'm taking a break :) hahaha.... I have too much going on to be able to spend as much time on my assignments as I want to. I'd say the end of term 2, I was doing 15-20 hrs of work a week.... but I had never worked with a biped before. I'm sure that other people who had done a lot of animation before were able to get better results in less time than me. heh.....

~Mechis

[benytone]

angeluSlo[/b]]....... i would...
Some small problems with your Rig
.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/593/ambml1.jpg
.
Fixed problem http://www.coolarchive.com/icons/gif/miscA89.gif

[danb]

Well how about the timelines? Is c4d's timeline editing tools now on par with maya's? I don't know, i don't ever animate in maya.

I agree with Lucent Dreams, that c4d has better integration of HUD controls, especially now in r10 with visual selector integrated.

IMO i think you'd be better off with cactus dan's plugins because they are very easy to setup. Which seems to be a concern of yours. Also in his sample files there is IKbob that is very similar to a maya rig. Plus dan studies maya ple to get ideas for his plugins. So along with the superslider and dan's rigs you are almost getting maya in c4d. I think a lot of maya users also use c4d to animate because they are so simlar. We use maya, c4d and motion builder at my current job.

It'd be cool to actually see an animation mentor rig, so we could compare it.

Also keep in mind that you may want to do a nice render and not have to wait till next year for it to complete, c4d will make sure of that.

Only drawback i can see with using c4d is editor speed. The editor speed is not as fast as maya's.

[sandidolsak]

ahh benytone thats exactly what he is thinking of... "where are the colors on my joints..."

[AkaKico]

Nice to see a few c4der's did/are doing AM! I'm in Class 2 with 51MON right now and enjoying every moment of it. Once I can afford c4d r10 at home I'm hoping to shift all my animation work from Maya.

[danb]

I just gotta ask those who are enrolled and animating if you really think the prices is worth it? I'm thinking of joining also, but i'm wondering if i can get the same info from books.

[AkaKico]

Mine is getting paid for by work, but I have to say it is totally worth it. The mentors all know what they are talking about, the lectures are fantastic. There are lot's of students doing great work that pushes you to work harder. I never could have learned from books what I've learned in the 1 and a half classes I've taken so far. Nothing like learning from people who not only teach, but are currently working in the industry. Everywhere from Pixar to ILM to BlueSky.
I thought I was pretty good at animating before I went into it, after the 3rd week they were deep into material I didn't know. Nothing like watching the commentary on a movie like the Incredibles and hearing Brad Bird praising not only 1 Mentor at the school for work on the film, but several!
if you can't tell, I really like it :D

[sandidolsak]

"I thought I was pretty good at animating before I went into it"

so what do you think, is it better to learn for some time by yourself and then enhance the knowledge or its better to start from scratch and learn the right way from the start?

[AkaKico]

While having prior animation knowledge isn't needed.. I would say it would be a huge help if you are already have a general working knowledge of 3D help quite a lot, knowing how the grapheditor(Timeline) works, moving around key frames, even navigating 3D space. It made it so I only had to mess around with Maya for a day to get a feel for the animation part of the program, so I was able to focus on the charaters.
The school does not teach software. There are vid on basics in Maya, and a separate Maya training course if you go that route. But it's not about software.They teach it so you can use Maya, any 3D package, 2D, or even stop motion! Both of my Mentors so far came from a traditional 2D background and now use 3D.
It's hard for me to look at it from the point of view of a blank slate. I do know it's fun, and for the first time in since k-12 I'm acually learning something in school :D Can't wait for class later tonight!

hth

Chris

[sandidolsak]

tnx for this info

[Mechis]

Two reasons why AM is worth it.

1) Truth is, AM motivates me to do animation. If I'm working by myself, I get discouraged or easily distracted and don't finish anything. It's also nice to be around so many people obsessed with animation. I can tell you that if it weren't for AM, I'd still be struggling with bouncy balls.

Ask yourself this (and be honest... heh)... how long have you been interested in animation or been trying to learn animation? And then ask yourself how far you have gotten. If you can animate on the level that you see in the AM demo reels.... then you don't need AM. However, if you are still messing with bouncy balls.... then you should join AM. I was interested in animation for years, but never got very far until I joined AM. Simple as that.

2) Critiques. It's really hard to get a good critique for free. Look on the forums here-- when someone posts an animation, they are lucky to get even one GOOD critique. Usually the thread is pretty empty. Or, people go nuts and you get a lot of praise..... but still no crits. Even if you do get crits...... how are you to know if that person is right? AM employs the best of the best animators and their critiques of your work are gold.

AM is expensive, but if you want to do animation, then go to AM.
~Mechis

[danb]

Excellent points you've made. I definately need a motivator to do work on my own. Usually my motivation is rent :)

Any tips on the financial side of animation mentor? Seems a little steep to me, but if there are work arounds then i'm going to enroll.

[danb]

I can't get on their site. Anyone else have this problem?

I emptied my temp internet folder and it still doesn't work.

[Mechis]

They offer student loans, but I've heard that the terms aren't the best. You should go to a few banks and ask them about the possibility of getting a loan (I know a few students who have done that). You can also call AM and ask them about it.... they're nice :)

~Mechis

[TBoxman]

So where is all this Character Animation done in C4D? I see tons of stills but have been looking for animations for quite some time and finding very little. Even the Maxon demo reel 2007 only has two short Warhammer clips.

I love C4D and use it all the time, but don't do CA. I have people intersted in moving to C4D but need to see quality CA shots done in C4D before they'll believe it's not only possible, but actually happening.

[danb]

Search the web for WIPIX and c4d. That is "Kiteman's" site and is i think one of the top c4d animators. He's very talented and just as good as what you will find on animation mentor.

Check out www.moonridge5.com (http://www.moonridge5.com) for more c4d animation. :)

[crackle]

could we get a r9 version of am mickey please. even just a .obj file, i can rig the thing meself....

[benytone]

could we get a r9 version of am mickey please. even just a .obj file, i can rig the thing meself....

Hi Kainor, original+attachment
http://www.animetria.com/uploads/rig/AM_Biped_V2_Maestro2.rar

.

[danb]

You can use the .lws scene directly in c4d. See attached. I took out all the extra pieces that were not needed. This way all the weights are already applied.

He's a cool little character. Makes me want to animate just looking at him. :)

[bobtronic]

@benytone and kainor: Don't want to spoil the fun but I am sure AM will not be pleased to see their models shared on a public forum. I know of another case and he had to take it down.

cheers,
Bob

[benytone]

@benytone and kainor: Don't want to spoil the fun but I am sure AM will not be pleased to see their models shared on a public forum. I know of another case and he had to take it down.

cheers,
Bob

:surprised
its not AM-original rig and thats not my webspace
:curious: you should look.... http://www.animetria.com (http://www.animetria.com/)


.

[bobtronic]

:surprised
its not AM-original rig and thats not my webspace
:curious: you should look.... http://www.animetria.com (http://www.animetria.com/)

ah, sorry. it's just that i had seen another AM mickey clone taken down. see here:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=78809

cheers,
Bob

[benytone]

lol..funny
hey Bob i use your great ColorChanger-plugin => Click (http://home.arcor.de/anim6d/nim1.jpg) , many thanks! :bowdown:



.

[bobtronic]

lol..funny
hey Bob i use your great ColorChanger-plugin => Click (http://home.arcor.de/anim6d/nim1.jpg) , many thanks! :bowdown:

cool, you are welcome :)

cheers,
Bob

[sandidolsak]

i understand why AM wouldnt like this models to be used... but there is nothing they can do tbh, everyone can remodel them anytime...

[crackle]

thanks for your help, benytone, excellent tuts on you site as well by the way!

[benytone]

thanks to you too kainor and HaveFun with Rigging

kainor, it would be nice if you have an idea for a new Rigging Challenge, without any material prizes -(only for c4d, Mocca 2-3, Cactus Dan's awesome Rigging Tools, Bonderland etc.)?!



.

[crackle]

how about facial rigging, not just morphs, but a blending type with morphs and joints?

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