8core pc experience anyone?

[Per-Anders]

You do realise that the Mac is a PC right? You can run Windows on one just as you would on a PC if you wish (I am right now), and the octocore mac is in fact cheaper than it's similarly specced pc rivals (though don't buy hard drives or memory from apple if you intend to keep it that way :D )

[ooo]

I think you know the Mac 8-core is a PC too. Just throw windows at it and you're running a perfect PC. i think a few members here are running C4D on XP on MAC Pro.
But if you want a "real" PC there is an option from Dell if I'm right. But for now only Apple has the 3ghz 8-cores.
Edit: Per's post was first :)

[mm149047]

that was very stupid of me ! sorry
honestly, i thought i'd have to run the mac aperating system on the mac
so, in fact i can buy non mac hardware rams, drives etc as well on the mac?

[cooperunionstud]

hmm...
you can buy non-mac hardware for ram, harddrives. mouse, and CPU. optical drives, keyboard, motherboard and graphics card are sort of exclusive to the macs. I think you can use non-apple branded graphics card when running windows but not under osx. also buying a simliar configured PC would be MORE expensive then buying one from apple. I did the research between mac and various other OEMS like DELL, HP, Boxx, and apple was about 1000+ cheaper on most cases not to mention that the cpu on apples 8 core mac pro is not yet availalble on the pc side yet... there are your choices..

[lots]

Its nice being the favored child of Intel, isn't it?

[techmage]

A mac is never cheaper than a PC.

If you buy the hardware and put it together youself, then for about $4,000 you can get a PC Xeon workstation with:
-8 cores
-4gb ram
-320 gb seagates in raid 5
-quadro FX 5500
-top of the line motherboard

An octo mac pro for $6,345 will get you:
-8 cores
-4 gb ram
-single 250 gb HD (not even as good as the seagates?)
-FX 4500

Thats an extra few grand for less power, the ability to run OS X and a mac case. Which when you keep in mind that you can get a PC with a quad core intel core duo for only $865 if you build it yourself, that extra few grand will be able get you 16 cores in PC terms.

BTW, I get these prices by piecing together systems on newegg.com

[Per-Anders]

Try finding the 3ghz 4 core processors for the pc rather than something with a lower clock speed, and buying the hard drive and ram elsewhere than from Apple. Also "Top of the line motherboard" isn't really a feature, considering the apple also has that, you want to match feature for feature, that includes the firewire ports, sound card, number of pcie slots, the psu rating, ram type, the case etc.

You should just about be able to beat the Mac price by building your own, but not by a signifigant enough margin to then cover such things as service and support and just general effort involved.

At several points buying an Apple has in fact been cheaper than building your own to the same spec, building to "nearly as good" kinda misses the point, for instance when the mac pro first came out the 2.66 was in fact a couple of hundered dollars cheaper than building from stock components. So sorry, but your statement that macs will never be cheaper than PC's just isn't correct even if you do take into account building your own, and is a far cry from the truth if you compare like for like with other manufacturors such as hp, dell, sony and so on.

[cooperunionstud]

well. you are comparing something that doesn't exists on yet on the pc side with something thats already avaliable on the mac and thats not very resonable. you are also refering to the idea that one would buy everything from the mac store. but in reality the practical way of buying components for mac has always been third party. in my case i spent less than 4600 for a mac with similar specs as the one you mentioned. abit a cheaper graphics card, but i have more ram. 6gigs infact. plus i can run both operating systems. do that with your 4000 dollars non existent pc. plz

[Saurus]

You be in better position in the long run building your own rig. Get a kick ass components and put it in a good solid case. Years from now, you can keep up with the Jones by slowly upgrading components. People with propriety computers need to buy a whole new system everytime their system gets old...way more expensive.

[cooperunionstud]

well..its all about your budget..if you can afford it and its gonna help your work. go for it. if you can't build it yourself. one rule doesn't fit all

[dan1el]

if you people want to go on discussing if Apple is cheaper or more expensive than a DIY PC then please use one of the million other posts where that has been done.

next time do not compare an Apple with a DIY PC, since you do not compare the Apple to a HP or Dell and the DIY only is being compared on the major specs, not the minor (quality I/O ports and so on)

[CKPinson]

I would get the Apple for the support, appeal, dual OS and verified functionality- If you have the loot-otherwise you can build your own, buying one piece at a time, future proofing and learning from the experience- I believe everyone should build at least one in their life time, I learned a lot more from it than school.
I use a PC at home/work and an Apple at school and even with the recent mods and changes in both they're still fairly different IMO- I'd ideally prefer to have both at home which is my ultimate plan- upgrade the current one I have to the max (CPU ext) and then fork out the cash for the Apple Octo- Hope that means anything to someone.

[mm149047]

thanx everyone !
i am almost convinced that the mac8 pro will be my choice - one question though: how does mac's price policy work - is there a similar fluctuation like there is with other brands? should i wait or buy now?

ps: i found an interesting offer, 4gigs of ram for 215 euros - http://www.alternate.de/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=icievc&baseId=9346
can they substitute the native mac rams?

thanx
markus

[SanjayChand]

a refurb dell from btn systems which comes with a 3 year warranty is cheaper, and so is pricing the system from new egg

[SheepFactory]

I cant wait to get my 8 core mac pro. That thing is a beauty.

[parallax]

It's getting cheaper everyday to start out for your own, especially compared to some 3-4 years ago.

I specced this yesterday:

apple store: (basic)
-8 core Macpro
-16 GB
-2 x 20" ACD
-1 x 250 GB internal
---------
3rd party:
-6 x seagate 320 GB
-1 x seagate 750 + Ext. case
-16 GB Macpro compatible RAM
-RAIDSonic 4-bay RAID enclosure
-FCP Studio 2
-Adobe CS 3 (video production suite)
-Decklink HD Extreme
-Cinema 4D (basic)
-MoGraph

Total price: 13.966 Euros Incl. VAT.

You couldn't even get a quarter media composer for this money a few years ago (1-2 years?), and this system runs circles around it every day of the week, and is fully equipped for 2D/3D Motion graphics, and HD Video Editing.

[whtnoise]

around $4800 US bought this, all the parts except the monitor from newegg

Case: Lian-Li PC-V1200Bplus II
Power: PC Power and Cooling 750W EPS 12V
MB: Tyan S2696A2NRF
Processor: 2 x Intel Xeon E5345 2.33Ghz
Memory: 4 x Wintec 2GB ECC FB-DIMM DDR2 667
Hard Drive: 2 x Seagate Barracuda 500GB SATA
CD/DVD: Lite-ON 20x DVD SATA Burner
Video: EVGA Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB
Monitor: Dell 2407WFP
Mouse + Keyboard: nothin special...
OS: WinXP x64

spent a little bit extra on some 3rd party cpu and case cooling - but for $4800, i'm thinking it'll make for a pretty good workstation - of course i don't have the support that apple and dell provide, but i rarely ever relied on that anyway, except for parts replacement, which most manufacturer warranties cover within similar time frames as machine builders do.

[cooperunionstud]

if you buy the most barebone mac pro 8 core from apple. its 3800 with student discount after tax.

that leaves you 1000 dollars to buy an extra monitor... ram and gfx card.

so you pretty much end up with nearly the samething for the same amount of money. of course you have the 3.0ghz instead of the 2.3ghz. and the graphics card will be limited to 1900xt

[Saurus]

around $4800 US bought this, all the parts except the monitor from newegg

Case: Lian-Li PC-V1200Bplus II
Power: PC Power and Cooling 750W EPS 12V
MB: Tyan S2696A2NRF
Processor: 2 x Intel Xeon E5345 2.33Ghz
Memory: 4 x Wintec 2GB ECC FB-DIMM DDR2 667
Hard Drive: 2 x Seagate Barracuda 500GB SATA
CD/DVD: Lite-ON 20x DVD SATA Burner
Video: EVGA Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB
Monitor: Dell 2407WFP
Mouse + Keyboard: nothin special...
OS: WinXP x64

spent a little bit extra on some 3rd party cpu and case cooling - but for $4800, i'm thinking it'll make for a pretty good workstation - of course i don't have the support that apple and dell provide, but i rarely ever relied on that anyway, except for parts replacement, which most manufacturer warranties cover within similar time frames as machine builders do.

... and 3 years from now, you can upgrade to current CPU and motherboard ...you not only kick any computer available today, but you also extent the life of your system for another 3 years or so.

[cooperunionstud]

i highly doubt 3 years from now you will be able to upgrade to a current CPU with an old motherboard.

[Saurus]

i highly doubt 3 years from now you will be able to upgrade to a current CPU with an old motherboard.

hmmm...I did mentioned motherboard (still cheaper than buying a whole new machine). Check my response again.

[whtnoise]

the bottom of the barrel mac pro is still only a dual-dual core. as of right now the only quad core config i'm seeing on apple's site is the 3.0ghz, the chips of which aren't available to consumers yet (good to know apple is lining intel's pockets) - but cost almost $1,800 over the base dual-dual core config, add 8 gigs of ram to that and you're already sitting at just over $6k, with storage, gfx, and monitor options, you're right at $7,700.

the cpu cost difference is pretty substantial, from the 2.33ghz to the 3ghz quad cores you're spending probably around $600-700 extra per chip, which is kind of rediculous. the extra performance is nice - but not worth the money.

and yes, going home brew allows a very minimal upgrade path - cpu and motherboard - and maybe memory. i've always been a big opteron fan - every workstation and render node we've got in my office is an amd of some sort - and they've been rock solid. i'm anxious to see what amd pulls off for the quad-core workstation market, might just have to kick the intel quads to the curb :)

[Per-Anders]

the bottom of the barrel mac pro is still only a dual-dual core.

I think all of you guys are maybe missing the major point here. If the guy wanted just a cheap PC he wouldn't be asking about an Octacore equivalent of the Mac pro. He wants a top of the line PC, none of the arguments for homebrew have covered this point, they've all been not quite as good for more than the Mac or a fair amount worse for less. To use the prerequisite pointless car analogy it's like saying "So you want a Ferrari? Have you perhaps thought about a Suburu instead?", it's apples (if you'll excuse the pun) and oranges. If you want a cheaper PC and don't care about the specs then you can of course homebrew, but to logically extend that argument you could also just buy a bottom of the line Gateway or Dell for very cheap indeed and still get some support.

And then the arguments about upgrading are pointless too, if you want a top of the line machine then you're unlikely to want a frankenstein PC a few years down the line based on old components, what's more if you have to replace the mobo you're basically looking at rebuilding the whole thing from scratch anyway, the only saving is likely to be the case, in which case you're still better off with the Mac (and yes you can upgrade the Mac, and indeed other PC OEM's even things like Dells, I've done this myself, so that line of argument doesn't make the most sense).

Really I'm beginning to think that the advice you guys are giving is not good advice, but is simply based on some rather congealed and ancient fanboyism from back when Apples weren't in fact just another workstation PC as they are now.

As it stands the Mac Octacore is on it's own, and if you want that kind of machine is the best you can get in terms of bang for buck, cost for those components, processors, build quality, design, OS (and therefore software) support, and customer service and support. It is also upgradable down the line contrary to apparent common misconcpetion.

Right now that's how things stand, now in a months time or two this may no longer be the case. You just can't find or build an equivalent workstation at a reasonable price especially not with a similar level of support. Things will change and that's the cost of wanting the cutting edge, it's not cutting edge for very long, but it may be long enough to be worthwhile for your needs and wants (and is a totally different argument), in a month or two Boxx may have the best possible configuration and support available, or perhaps (and more likely) it'll be possible to buy the exact or better components and build your own for less, and anyone looking to get the same thing as the Mac but for less would legitimately look there. At the moment though those aren't really equivalent options, no matter how much kicking and screaming is done, I'm sure that a month or two will change all that, especially as DDR3 will be with us soon and RAM is the biggest bottleneck on the Mac.

[LazyGunn]

lordy without wanting to sound too antagonistic, i moderate a photography chatroom and this is reminding me of the typical nikon vs canon war hacked about by fanboys

buy whatever computer suits your needs if you REALLY need it, rathe rthan just for stat masturbation

additionally no there isnt anything to cpompare to an octocore atm, this will change if you could possibly imagine being patient but really there's something for everyone

i was biased against macs for a long time but they seem perfectly capable now, not that i'll get one, but if you're spending so much money you should maybe not rely on a lot of opinions that seem particularly biased and reserach somewhere that might give you a more blanced view of things

mac users will tell you to get a mac becae ethey have one, pc users likewise, its a lot of money, research hard

[Saurus]

No issue with Macs here, I think they are beautiful machines. My issue is their proprietary design, which mean I also have issue with Dell machines. My other issue with Apple machine, is their lack of video card selection. For that kind of money, it would be nice to be able to use any available card out there to keep my machine up to date.

True...it's a lot of money, so research hard. So, he should be able to hear from both side and whatever in the middle suggestions.

[CKPinson]

http://www.atacom.com/PRODUCT_GRAPHICS/SYST/SYST_TYAN_4U_85.jpgGet this and then upgrade to the Quad AMD's which are due out very soon according to their site AMD.com. This is the F socket which is the very top notch in the OPTERON fam. Buy a good Vid Card (new ATI creaping out now and kick Nvidias arse according to benchmrxs). Perfect workstation or fork out the dough for one of those Apple Killer BOXX MACHINES! Apexx- they really kick arse- plus a lot of Companies support AMD in this biz right? I've had a couple of Intel machines at home and an Apple at work and the Intel are great but fairly pricey in comparison and I had issues when it came to OC the CPUS... My Apple at school I did love and enjoy but that was because my home PC at the time was no where near in comparison- Now I'm back to homebrew AMD because it's worked for me and my work. Hey, It's Tech, whatcha gonna do, times change and new shiney things hit the shelves constantly!Product SKUs Manufacturer part # B4985F48V8HR
Motherboard TYAN Thunder n4250QE (S4985G3NR)
Quad AMD Opteron™ system board
<LI>SSI MEB footprint (13" x 16")
CPU <LI>Support up to four AMD Opteron™ (Rev.F) 8000
series processors (Socket 1207)Chipset<LI>nVIDIA nForce Pro 2200 + 2050
System Memory (16) 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets (4 per CPU)
Up to 64GB reg. DDR2 667/533/400 DIMMs
<LI>Support ECC and 4 banks memory modules
Expansion Slots (2) PCI Express x16 slot with x16 signal
(2) PCI Express x16 slot with x4 signal
(1) PCI v2.3 32-bit 33 MHz slot
Total 5 usable expansion slots
Integrated PCI Graphics XGI Volari Z7™ (XG20) PCI graphics controller
<LI>16MB Frame Buffer of video memory
Server Management Automatic fan speed control
Chassis intrusion alert
Support Tyan Server Management (TSM)
<LI>Tyan SMDC M3291, IPMI v2.0 compliant
remote server management kit (option)Integrated LAN Controller<LI>(3) Gigabit Ethernet ports
- (2) Marvell 88E1111 GbE PHY
- (1) Intel 82541PI GbE LAN controllerBIOSPhoenix BIOS with 8Mbit LPC Flash ROM
ACPI 2.0; power management: S0, S1, S4, & S5
Serial Console Redirect
USB device boot
48-bit LBA support
ChassisEnclosure<LI>Industry 19" rack-mountable 4U &
Pedestal convertible chassis Dimension: 16.7" (W) x 27.6" (D) x 6.9" (H)
Dimension (mm): 425 (W) x 703 (D) x 176 (H)
Power SupplyEPS 12V 1140W (2+1) redundant
<LI>Voltage: 100~240 AC input
Back I/O Ports Stacked PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports
(3) GbE LAN ports w/ activity LED (2 stacked)
(2) USB 2.0 ports
(1) COM1 connector
<LI>(1) 15-pin VGA port
Front Panel FeaturesI/O: (2) USB 2.0 ports
<LI>LED indicators:
HDD Active/LAN3, power, (2) LAN, ID, System Fail <LI>Switch: power, reset, NMI, ID
Storage (1) 5.25" type 8x DVD-ROM (pre-installed)
(8) 3.5" HDD bays; (3) 5.25" Drive bay
(8) SATA/SATA2 HDD support w/ RAID 0, 1, 0+1 , 5
Onboard Storage Controller <LI>(8) SATA2 ports for up to eight drives at 3.0Gb/s
System Cooling <LI>(6) 120*120*38mm 4800rpm redundant and
hot-swap fans <LI>(4) passive CPU heatsinks
RegulatoryFCC Class B (Declaration of Conformity)
CE (Declaration of Conformity), VCCI, C-Tick
http://www.atacom.com/html3/graphics/div-h_l.gifhttp://www.atacom.com/html3/graphics/features.gifConvertible into a 4U rackmount or full-size tower, the Transport FT48 (B4985) offers AMD Next-Gen Multi-Core technology, eight (8) SATA2/SAS drive bays, three (3) gigabit ethernet ports, redundant power features, remote management, multiple PCI Express x16 slot support and more. Up to four (4) AMD Opteron 8000 Series Processors are supported, as well as DDR2 memory.

[SheepFactory]

By the way is anyone using Maya 8.5 with the 8 core mac pro under osx?

[mlmiller1983]

I'm waiting to see how the AMD Opteron "Barcelona" perform until I make my decision. It's amazing how computing power has grown since 2000 with dual-core, quad-core, and now octa-core.

[bluemagicuk]

mlmiller1983 -- i agree with you completely. For maya last i heard the quad macs were cleaning up in terms of render speed ... cant be beat.

Amato also hinted at a more precise release date. The chip, based on 65nm process technology, has long been scheduled for '2H07', but he said today the chip would appear at the 'beginning of the second half' of the year - cueing up a July release. The desktop chip would appear would be at 'the end' of the year.



http://www.pcpro.co.uk/processors/news/109984/amd-explores-barcelona-quadcore-in-more-detail.html

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