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FabianB
11-09-2010, 06:49 PM
Hey guys!
Thank you for the great tips to get rid of the flickering!
Unfortunately non of them worked. :sad:
I'm rendering a second version right now and it's still flickering, I made like 10 different test renders (first 40 frames) with different settings and light setups! Nothing even changed it. I tried more lights, less lights, different shadow types, different light types, in- and decreased multiple scattering level NOTHING even changes it. If you watch it frame by frame in comp you can see pattern to it.
Dark - Brighter - Bright - Brighter - Dark ---- It's changing on every frame always in the same pattern.
I will upload the new version tomorrow + file, I think it looks much better now and simulates and renders much quicker. But still flickering. It would be great if someone has another idea how I can fix it.
It's strange I used the exact same lighting setup many times before and never had any problems with it. I'm guessing it's a multiple scattering issue, but there has to be something else to it like multiple scattering + strong wavelet.

cheers,
Fabian

floopyb
11-10-2010, 03:25 AM
Fabian; have you tried changing your illumination map undersampling settings? or even turning it off (i know it will be very slow, but it may tell you if this is the source of the flickering).

renaissance01
11-10-2010, 03:47 AM
Hey Fabian, Just curious what kind of light and shadows are you using? I know I and a few others on this forum have overcome flickering before by finishing the sim, setting up for rendering and then re-opening max to render. No idea why it seems to work, I'm guessing its got something to do with a corruption in the illumination map or cache. It's a dodgey and unpredictable method I know, but it has been known to work for others in the past.

Cheers

adom86
11-10-2010, 10:41 AM
When i had that issue (it only pops up now and again) I drop the maximum depth in illumination tab down to 3 which makes renders a hell of a lot longer but seemed to get rid of the flicker.. when I was troubleshooting this problem I literally could have cried in frustration :P

Unbelievable! As soon as I post this I turned to comping another Fume fireball... and its flickering like yours haha.. time to cry!

Kresimir
11-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Hi everyone,
every time I press cancel during the simulation I loose some of my already calculated frames.. so for example, if I'm on frame 26 and I press cancel and then go back to "continue simulation" it will start from frame 20.. If I'm on frame 34 and continue sim after the cancellation it will start from frame 30 and so on.. this is quite a big issue for me as I'm using only one pc and losing frames that took 5 hours to calculate is really annoying.. Is it possible to change that FumeFX would start to simulate from the last calculated frame..?

Hello,

You can check preferences and use smaller interval. Also, keep in mind that you can continue from a fxd file and you do not need any fdc at all.

Kresimir

Kresimir
11-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Hey guys!
Thank you for the great tips to get rid of the flickering!
Unfortunately non of them worked. :sad:
I'm rendering a second version .....
Fabian

Hi Fabian,

I have tried to repro it here. For the sake of sim speed, I have increased Grid spacing to 2.0cm for Default Sim and then did Wavelet Turbulence on top of that.
I did render to an uncompressed avi and result didn't flicker.
Can you try such a low res setup on your machine and let me know what you get ?

Also, on your scene, do you get flikering on Default or just on Wavelet sim ?

Thank you.

Kresimir

circusboy
11-10-2010, 02:24 PM
Fabian- What version of Fume are you using?
Do you have multiple overlapping smoke/fume boxes?
Are you rendering on a render farm?

We had an issue with flickering where the initial frame of render rendered shadows differently
than subsequent frames (with multiple smoke boxes). So on a render farm many machines were doing there intial frames wrong at once which made for flickering.

However it was circumstantial to the above and should be fixed in v2.0 (we sent a repro scene to Kresimir and he seemed to sort it easily when he saw what was going on).

adom86
11-10-2010, 02:58 PM
Urgh, I cant seem to get rid of it either now! Doh... im on version 2 and exact same problems.. shall post back if I fix! Got 3 hours to sort out before deadline lol

circusboy
11-10-2010, 03:49 PM
I think 2.1(a?) fixed another flicker issue-don't suppose you have access to that?

adom86
11-10-2010, 04:18 PM
Good old save scene, close max, open max, render seems to have worked for now :S

XRM
11-10-2010, 04:38 PM
Well I'm having the flickering problem on 2.1a also. Fabian is also on 2.1a. It doesn't seem to have solved......Help us FumeFX Devs :(

FabianB
11-10-2010, 05:22 PM
Hi guys,
thanks for all the great tricks!
Here is the second version:
http://www.vimeo.com/16702431

and here is the File (max2010 + 2011 + Fume2.1a)
http://vfx-training.com/training/BigFire_Fabian_V2.rar

@circusboy
Yes, I'm on Fume2.1a, actually I never had problems with flickering on previous versions. Nor rednered on a farm and only 1 container.

@Kresimir
I will set up a few of sims over night now, low res and rendering default on the highres scene. I'll drop you an email tomorrow. Thank you!

@renaissance
That idea sounds like the stuff that usually works. :) I will try that too! Thanks alot!

@Adam
Thank you! But there is no chance that I will try to render it on level 3. :D I rendered this one on level 4 now and I guess it would already have been faster to correct the brightness on every single frame in post. :D

Thanks again guys!

UPDATE: Fume2.1 no flickering, Fume2.1a flickering! (same scene)

UPDATE2: Turning off illumination map fixes it!

UPDATE3: Low res version (2,0 cm spacing) is also flickering with illumination map on.

UPDATE4: Shadows disabled (Light and render tab) still flickering

UPDATE5: The crazy closing Max and open it again trick really works! Crazy. :D

cheers,
Fabian

XRM
11-11-2010, 05:02 AM
Hi guys...well its Official Bug Week. So, I would like to share one of my own. :D
http://www.vimeo.com/16708219

Done with FumeFX 2.1a...
Well that good ol closing and reopening and hit render mothod works...Kinda Freaky :D...but we still want a fix. I mean it is not a production friendly idea to close and reopen 3dsMax guys. There should be a Fix to this... :)


Cheers!!! :)

JohnnyRandom
11-11-2010, 04:43 PM
...but we still want a fix. I mean it is not a production friendly idea to close and reopen 3dsMax guys. There should be a Fix to this... :)


3dsMax or its plugins are not the only software bothered by this issue. ;)

Agree a fix would be nice, but I think it is more akin to chasing a ghost, could have something to do with the last time you rebooted your machine too, a hardware config, a conflicting plugin, an OS issue, who knows, if a restart fixes it, then more than likely max should have been restarted anyway.

FabianB
11-11-2010, 07:00 PM
It's a problem with DCPFLICS and the good thing is, it's already fixed. Works great for me, no more flickering. I think there will be an update soon.

FabianB
11-12-2010, 07:28 PM
Problem solved, here is the prove:
http://www.vimeo.com/16772810

I think I liked the flickering version more, gave it a more of an artistic look! :D

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 12:29 AM
Hey everyone, forgive me for asking a silly question here.

We just upgraded one of our Fume boxes to a Dual Xeon. But during a simulation, only half the threads are being used, and those aren't even used at full capacity. I was mainly wondering why our second CPU is not being used by Fume at all. Fume Prefs are set to use all available, and even setting it to 16 manually doesn't work. Processor affinity is set correctly as well.

Again, sorry for the noob question...

depleteD
11-16-2010, 12:46 AM
I forgive you.

XRM
11-16-2010, 05:54 AM
I forgive you.

Lolz bro :D

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Damn. You guys are just too classy for me.

We've yet to update to Fume 2.1, and I see it's supposed to use all cores, so maybe that's our solution.

depleteD
11-16-2010, 03:18 PM
Ha sry man.

You could try that,
I acctually have this problem on one of my machines. Its 8 cores but only 4 show up even in my task maganger.

Also theres a strong possiblity that fume just doesnt need the horsepower to hit the solution. Try cranking quality to 10 and max iterations to 350. If then all your procs arent all maxed out then you have a problem.

-Andrew

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 03:56 PM
Ha! Thanks Andrew, I'll give that a shot. Although cranking up the quality to get more processor performance seems counterproductive. Unless the word "quality" is a misnomer and really means "processor usage."

depleteD
11-16-2010, 04:06 PM
What I'm saying is that I think the fume you ahve right now just doesn't need all the horse power your computer has to offer. It can handle all the computations accross a couple threads. If you pump the settings, it will show you that fume is working on all the processors.

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 04:28 PM
Oh right! Makes sense.

mclawest
11-16-2010, 05:59 PM
Did someone tested FumeFX with Hair&Fur? The thing is that H&F can affect the Fume, but Hair is the post-processed effect at render and it looks like the hair is upper Fume.
Maybe someone know hot to put the smoke into hairs deeps? :)
First test. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hicG-3QGgO8)

mclawest
11-16-2010, 06:11 PM
Did someone tested FumeFX with Hair&Fur? The thing is that H&F can affect the Fume, but Hair is the post-processed effect at render and it looks like the hair is upper Fume.
Maybe someone know hot to put the smoke into hairs deeps? :)
First test. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hicG-3QGgO8)

fixed by MentalRay.

JohnnyRandom
11-16-2010, 06:23 PM
I haven't tried it with Hair. The issue I see right from the start, Hair is a spline based method, Fume needs a geometric volume to perform collision calculations. Hair isn't generating a mesh. You could make it generate a mesh then use it as a collision object, I am afraid you would kill your machine though! Maybe I am wrong but give it a shot :)

Even having a just few thousand particle mesh shape emitters drives fumes memory usage waaaay up, I had 2000 fairly simple collision/emission shapes consuming 24gigs of memory, and a waaay slow simulation.

mclawest
11-16-2010, 06:23 PM
I haven't tried it with Hair. The issue I see right from the start, Hair is a spline based method, Fume needs a geometric volume to perform collision calculations. Hair isn't generating a mesh. You could make it generate a mesh then use it as a collision object, I am afraid you would kill your machine though! Maybe I am wrong but give it a shot :)

Even having a just few thousand particle mesh shape emitters drives fumes memory usage waaaay up, I had 2000 fairly simple collision/emission shapes consuming 24gigs of memory, and a waaay slow simulation.

no no, there is an option to use hairs as mesh and it works well for FFX.. (34 secs per frame in Scanline (but the Hairs will be postProcessed), 1min24secs per frame with MentalRay (Hair&Fur preprocessed).)

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 06:54 PM
To follow up on the all-CPU thing I posted earlier... 2.1 solves it just fine. All 16 threads are zipping right along.

JohnnyRandom
11-16-2010, 06:58 PM
no no, there is an option to use hairs as mesh and it works well for FFX.. (34 secs per frame in Scanline (but the Hairs will be postProcessed), 1min24secs per frame with MentalRay (Hair&Fur preprocessed).)

ahhh, cool, so the first one you posted was with scanline? You wanted deeper smoke penetration is that correct?

Interesting test ;)


@ Tim, glad to hear :)

mclawest
11-16-2010, 07:08 PM
ahhh, cool, so the first one you posted was with scanline? You wanted deeper smoke penetration is that correct?

Interesting test ;)


@ Tim, glad to hear :)

yes, you're right. There is no penetration with scanline rendering, because H&Fur is not preprocessed with scanline..

XRM
11-16-2010, 07:58 PM
Interesting test Mik :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Burritoh
11-16-2010, 08:36 PM
There's so much cool info in this thread... it needs to be turned in to a Wiki.

depleteD
11-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Its pretty gangsta.

Its very surprising how many different techniques people have developed to make fume do what they want. Ive been using it for maybe 3 years now and still picking up tricks from people.

-Andrew

FabianB
11-16-2010, 09:45 PM
Yes, this thread is awesome. :)
So many cool tricks to pick up! BTW here is a cool one, do you know that you can control the directional and radial velocity on a simple src with a map? Put a map in the temperature slot and set the afcs of the radial and directional velocity to read from temperature, set the values and BAMMM. velocity control for simple srcs. :)
IMO fumefx is still missing some good video comparison of different values. I have my own library I would like to share but now with fume 2.1 everything is different so it's pretty useless. :)

depleteD
11-16-2010, 10:38 PM
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMNNNNNNN


Clever Shit FabsB.

That is thugged out for realz.

Cryptite
11-17-2010, 02:17 AM
I once thought I could possibly keep the initial post updated with all the kind of stuff going on in this thread; but, you know, ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


So I stopped trying to do that long ago. A wiki sure would be nice though.

Darknon
11-17-2010, 06:24 AM
here is some more info I figured out. If you turn up the Smoke Diffusion to make the smoke less sharp. Well, Wavelet doesn't care about that. Wavelet is making it all sharp no matter the Diffusion value.

mclawest
11-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Interesting test Mik :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Final Result (http://vimeo.com/16924782).

THarland
11-17-2010, 04:12 PM
A wiki sure would be nice though.
There was a wiki started by John Rand but I don't think anyone has been contributing to it.

Glacierise
11-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Final Result (http://vimeo.com/16924782).

Wicked! Is the hair actually influencing the ffx?

mclawest
11-17-2010, 05:27 PM
Wicked! Is the hair actually influencing the ffx?
exactly :)

Glacierise
11-17-2010, 10:29 PM
Yeah I read up the thread, had missed some :) Nice stuff!

Burritoh
11-18-2010, 03:21 AM
There was a wiki started by John Rand but I don't think anyone has been contributing to it.


That's a shame. Certainly it would be a massive undertaking for one person to catalog the info in a 200+ page thread.




On another note....
We just updated to Fume 2.1 and now Buoyancy is gone and the default Fuel weight is -0.1. How does one control the buoyancy of the fire now?

FabianB
11-18-2010, 03:24 AM
On another note....
We just updated to Fume 2.1 and now Buoyancy is gone and the default Fuel weight is -0.1. How does one control the buoyancy of the fire now?
The "old" buoyancy is now called temperature buoyancy.

JohnnyRandom
11-18-2010, 04:00 AM
The buoyancy was split up so you could get buoyancy in fuel, smoke, and temperature.

sleepydragon
11-18-2010, 10:17 AM
Howzit all


here are some of the final approved versions of my cg train smoke...hope you like... crits and comments are again welcome thank you

will upload the scenes soon so you guys can see where i went wrong or how i could of made it better...need to first clean it up :)

http://vimeo.com/user5090648/videos

thanks

Glacierise
11-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Great stuff, would totally hold up :)

HeadSmell
11-18-2010, 10:53 AM
Looks great, though the one with the meadows in the forground, seems to have too much parallax shift between the plates. Really like the one coming out of the forest, nice one.

Darknon
11-18-2010, 04:22 PM
Looks really good. I like the one from afar best, looks very real. Good job.

XRM
11-18-2010, 04:53 PM
Hey sleepydragon, thats awesome!!! I liked the Forest one the most :D



Cheers!!! :buttrock:

depleteD
11-18-2010, 05:04 PM
SleepyD,

thats pretty cool stuff, but your scale is off in my opinion. A quick fix would be to type $.systemscale = 0.5 , its a hidden parameter but it is awesome.

-Andrew

FabianB
11-18-2010, 07:10 PM
Hey sleepydragon, great work!
I also had to do train smoke a while ago and I know it's not that easy. :)
The velocity pushing the smoke is perfect, looks absolutely real. A little bit too much turbulence for my taste and the smoke is too dark IMO. On a real train it's more white than black.
But it's approved, so who cares. :)
Awesome work.

JohnnyRandom
11-18-2010, 08:13 PM
Nice sleepyDragon :)

The motion is wonderful

HeadSmell
11-19-2010, 12:15 AM
A quick fix would be to type $.systemscale = 0.5 , its a hidden parameter but it is awesome.

Hay Andrew,
That's pretty handy, so what exactly is systemscale controlling? I cant find any documentation on it.
Is fume just *systemscale with particular inputs?
Cheers
-Alex

depleteD
11-19-2010, 12:24 AM
Fume is based on physical equations. What I'm sure systemscale does is scales the calculations of the fluid. So its a quick parameter to have fume behave big and small. Galagast droped some tests that confirms this.

SYstem scale higher will make fume behave smal
Lower than one will make it behave larger. Its really awesome. I'm gonna be posting a bunch of work that really uses this....prolly over thx giving weekend.

-Andrew

HeadSmell
11-19-2010, 12:37 AM
Cool Stuff man, Looking forward to it

sleepydragon
11-19-2010, 08:07 AM
@Glacierise-thanks dude really glad u like it
@HeadSmell- thanks..yah the parallax does look a bit od...this is the original plate that was shot on set though.the only thing that was done on it was stabilising(camera shake removed)
@Darknon-thanks dude, that was my first one it took me just under a month.crazy neh
@XRM-thanks thats my favourite as well
@depleteD-shot man and yah scaling"eish" was a big issue for me.. thanks for the tip will definitely check it out
@FabianB-thanks man glad u like it...and eish dude it was not easy but it was loads of fun, would like to see how your train smoke came out.my smoke is actually a lot lighter almost white, it was graded darker(its what the client wanted) :rolleyes: but then again the smoke/steam does also range from white to black,depends on the train
the turbulence was a real pain in my ... I no its not very accurate I just gave up after a long while..btw is there anyway u can make the turb. fade with age I found it very hard to control the smoke in the tail
@JohnnyRandom-thanks Johnny

thanks again guys and really appreciated the help during this project...so as promised
here are the scene files:

:surprised okayyyy so how do I do this...any suggestions on how I can upload the scene files? the zip files are between 500-600kbs each and the limit on this site is round about 200kbs and i dont no how to do it via vimeo? :blush: sowy

fiveoften
11-19-2010, 01:16 PM
you must search a freehoster

Stivow
11-20-2010, 09:52 PM
Hey there,

Here is a little fiery thing I've been working on today. Testing some more stuff with fume.

http://www.vimeo.com/16979581 (http://www.vimeo.com/16979581)

Cheers

mclawest
11-21-2010, 03:10 PM
I had got some spare time so I got back to the large scale fire tests - http://vimeo.com/17050596
(http://vimeo.com/17050596)

depleteD
11-22-2010, 12:15 AM
Stivow - I like a lot of things you've done with this, the trails, the rendering, and shadeing of the smoke. But the motion needs more of a pop. at the beginning, the explosion just kind of slowly grows. Explosions dont do that. They are instantly big. They POP on. They move too fast at the beginning for the camera to capture. Also its a rule from the 2d world. Chop of the first frame or three of the explosion and its instantly going to have more impact.

mclawest - cool stuff man, I really like doing large scale stuff with fume. Its really really tricky, check out what brian demetz does. This guy is ****ing awesome. Also I mentioned this before to others, have you played with systemscale value?

This guys work is badass, Ive gotten very close but I'm missing just missing something that hes figured out...and I think he retimes it in post.

http://www.briandemetz.com/_/BrianDeMetz_DemoReel_Part3_FFXsamples_v16.mov

mclawest
11-22-2010, 12:27 AM
(...)
mclawest - cool stuff man, I really like doing large scale stuff with fume. Its really really tricky, check out what brian demetz does. This guy is ****ing awesome. Also I mentioned this before to others, have you played with systemscale value?
(...)


daaamn, cool stuff!!!
Actually I didn't tried this trick with systemscale.. Is it needs to be written inside FFXScript or inside Listener? I will try it in my spare time.
Thanks!

depleteD
11-22-2010, 01:00 AM
Yea in the listener is usually where I do it.

I select my fume grid and type $.systemscale = 0.5 and then I hit enter.

the default is 1. Values less than 1 makes the fume behave larger.

-Andrew

sleepydragon
11-22-2010, 06:59 AM
so i managed to shrink the file sizes just enough to post them:thumbsup:
here u go hope its useful
thanks

llikethat
11-22-2010, 07:02 AM
I tried using fumeFX Partitioner script but was not able to get it right. I have the following questions, it would be really helpful if someone can help me,

1. Where exactly the part max files get saved? I dont get to see them and the batch file returns an error - "Error opening the scene file"
2. Does the script automatically change the output path for .fxd for all the part max files?
3. Once the part .fxd's are generated how can i get back them into a single scene?


Thanks,

mclawest
11-23-2010, 10:58 AM
I was tested a trick with systemscale.. I will uplaod a video test soon.

http://www.picatom.com/1p/FFX_LS_SS-1-th.jpg (http://www.picatom.com/1p/FFX_LS_SS-1.html)

Stivow
11-23-2010, 01:55 PM
Hey Andrew, thanks for the tips. Actually I was trying to do more of a slow explosion but what you say makes sense ! The sad thing is that I cleared the cache (low disk space heh).

Otherwise, the work of Brian is really awesome. I believe the guy works at Final Light, one of the nuke is on the fume website.
Do you guys think he emits from particles ?

Cheers,

Steve

(Post your results Andrew ! If they're not work related of course)

depleteD
11-23-2010, 08:05 PM
mclawest - dude thats looking way better man. The high frequency detail that happens in large scale smoke is starting to show up. You could maybe push it further 0.25 maybe?

Stivow - I have like 3-4 half finished things, I'm going to finish them up this weekend and get them on vimeo. I'm going to be makine tutorials on getting small medium large and epic scale fire.

I also recommend animateing time scale and expansion. Quickly have them ramp down. At the beginning of explosions, the pressure is higher and its moving faster. Animateing these values helps achieve this.

-Andrew

Ponomarev
11-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Hi there ) very usefull and interesting thread, I'll be watching for it! )
I have one little problem with FumeFX - I can't get non-clamped render elements, Fire or Smoke, Velocity, etc...beauty render is fine, but when I checked in Nuke my passes, they are looked clamped...I know, that to solve my problem exist option Non-Clamped Colors in the settings of Fusion Works Render, but it doesn't work...version of fume is 2.1a...
I've checked other version of fume, 2.0, 2.0a, 1,2 - everywhere I have clamped colors...(( whats wrong???

On this shot I've test this problem (http://vimeo.com/17153934)

FabianB
11-24-2010, 12:58 PM
I was tested a trick with systemscale.. I will uplaod a video test soon.

http://www.picatom.com/1p/FFX_LS_SS-1-th.jpg (http://www.picatom.com/1p/FFX_LS_SS-1.html)
wow really cool! I wonder why I never tried the systemscale trick. :surprised

mclawest
11-24-2010, 04:09 PM
mclawest - dude thats looking way better man. The high frequency detail that happens in large scale smoke is starting to show up. You could maybe push it further 0.25 maybe?
(...)
-Andrew

Thanks! I thought about it, I will try it and then I will post them both in one go (sysScale 0.5 and 0.25).

mclawest
11-24-2010, 04:10 PM
wow really cool! I wonder why I never tried the systemscale trick. :surprised

it is simple, Fabian! we didn't know about it :)

FabianB
11-24-2010, 04:25 PM
Haha that's the problem, I knew about it. It was posted like 2 years ago on cgfluids. :)
If someone had told me that it works that awesome on getting this high detail pyrocloud effect into the smoke I had tried it for sure. :D
I wonder why this parameter isn't available through the UI! Would be cool!

mclawest
11-24-2010, 06:48 PM
Haha that's the problem, I knew about it. It was posted like 2 years ago on cgfluids. :)
If someone had told me that it works that awesome on getting this high detail pyrocloud effect into the smoke I had tried it for sure. :D
I wonder why this parameter isn't available through the UI! Would be cool!
As a rule, a feature which is impossible to predict - not included in the documentation .. so that as a possibility is there, but use at your own risk :)

depleteD
11-24-2010, 07:43 PM
I dont find it impossible to predict, i just find that its odd that its not documentated and not in the ui.

Its really helpful for me to nail the look of references.

-Andrew

JohnnyRandom
11-25-2010, 05:37 AM
Fume isn't the only one with undocumented and non-exposed params, they are all over the place. Who knows I am sure Kreso has a good reason for it.

Stivow
11-25-2010, 09:51 AM
Probably because it's a setting that interacts on the whole scene and not just on the fume object ? (correct me if I'm wrong).

FabianB
11-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Probably because it's a setting that interacts on the whole scene and not just on the fume object ? (correct me if I'm wrong).
No, I think it just sets the systemscale for the Fume container you apply it to.
So if you have FumeFx001 selected and type: $.systemscale = 0.5 it will only set the systemscale for this container.
BTW it really works great, I'm doing I simulation at the moment and from the first few frames it looks promising. :)

joconnell
11-25-2010, 01:26 PM
System scale sounds very convenient but it's pretty much the same as using really large units for your fume fx container and emitters I presume? Is it just a more convenient way to scale the look of your smoke behaviour rather than trying to make real world size sims and then fitting your 3d scene around it?

JohnnyRandom
11-25-2010, 05:38 PM
That is exactly what it does.

For instance:

A Grid with dimensions of 100x100x100+spacing 1.0 with a simple source size of 10.0 and a systemscale of 1.0, will render exactly the same as a grid 1000x1000x1000+spacing of 10.0 with a simple source size of 100.0 and a systemscale of 10.

mclawest
11-25-2010, 05:56 PM
ok, here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnnCLjo8_c) comparison (changed systemscale only)..

http://www.picatom.com/1p/sscaletest-1-th.jpg (http://www.picatom.com/1p/sscaletest-1.html)

XRM
11-25-2010, 06:55 PM
That is exactly what it does.

For instance:

A Grid with dimensions of 100x100x100+spacing 1.0 with a simple source size of 10.0 and a systemscale of 1.0, will render exactly the same as a grid 1000x1000x1000+spacing of 10.0 with a simple source size of 100.0 and a systemscale of 10.



Yes, totally like the SCALE value of Realflow. Its the same thing.


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

FabianB
11-25-2010, 08:24 PM
Here is my systemscale test! I took one of my old Fume 1.2 scenes and simulated it with a systemscale of 0.25! It really is a great trick to get this really small detail in there!
BUT now I wonder what's up with Fume 2.1 and cubic interpolation! It has become unusable for me when you have a huge amount of smoke! It became really obvious for me now, because this is a 1.2 scene and I still have the old image sequence! Cubic interpolation on and it's looking good! Now in Fume 2.1 I get this crosses and lines in the render everywhere!
Does anyone know what's up with this?

cheers,
Fabian

XRM
11-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Here is my systemscale test! I took one of my old Fume 1.2 scenes and simulated it with a systemscale of 0.25! It really is a great trick to get this really small detail in there!
BUT now I wonder what's up with Fume 2.1 and cubic interpolation! It has become unusable for me when you have a huge amount of smoke! It became really obvious for me now, because this is a 1.2 scene and I still have the old image sequence! Cubic interpolation on and it's looking good! Now in Fume 2.1 I get this crosses and lines in the render everywhere!
Does anyone know what's up with this?

cheers,
Fabian


Well this happens when using the Advanced (fields and vels) advection with fast moving smoke. Check your Advection Parameters. Keep it Default. Default is the one which was present in the old FumeFX...Well it might have accidently changed...you know mouse wheel :D



Cheers!!! :buttrock:

FabianB
11-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Well this happens when using the Advanced (fields and vels) advection with fast moving smoke. Check your Advection Parameters. Keep it Default. Default is the one which was present in the old FumeFX...Well it might have accidently changed...you know mouse wheel :D

No, no mousewheel of death this time! Advection is set to default! Simulated again with cubic off and no more crosses and lines!

Darknon
11-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Yo all

Time for another compilation of explosions I've been working on lately. It's still for my Sitting Ducks movie. Anyways, I've been trying all kinds of things to get the explosions just right, and I'm pretty close to what I want now. So, the last ones in the compilation is what I'm talking about :)
I have worked towards getting a setup, where I only need to change the particle speed seed to get a simular explosion but with a different shape. Anyways, Long story.

Comments are always welcome, help me make it better :)

Youtube - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEc2jQnYVw&hd=1)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g5at13sGKMU/TO-W9yrphSI/AAAAAAAAACs/0cvsYJVze3k/s400/Evolution_v2.jpg

Glacierise
11-26-2010, 11:06 AM
Some really nice ones dude, cool research vid!

XRM
11-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Darknon, dude I love them :) Good work!!!
Just keep brushing the timing...

Cheers!!! :buttrock:

XRM
11-26-2010, 11:21 AM
Guys, check this kewl Vimeo Album of mine...
http://www.vimeo.com/album/1481779
Krakatau Eruptions

Credited : Robert Greenberg

Hope you'll like it :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

FabianB
11-26-2010, 11:23 AM
Wow Darknon, great work! One of the best explosions compilation I have seen so far!
Great detail!

Stivow
11-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Hey very nice Darknon, I like the motion of the last ones a lot ! Just a thing on the shading tho, the burning fire seems very strong maybe you could try to push the scattering a bit more (I mean playing with the fire and falloff values).
Unless that's something that is wanted.

Cheers,

Steve

circusboy
11-26-2010, 02:21 PM
Yo all

Time for another compilation of explosions I've been working on lately. It's still for my Sitting Ducks movie. Anyways, I've been trying all kinds of things to get the explosions just right, and I'm pretty close to what I want now. So, the last ones in the compilation is what I'm talking about :)
I have worked towards getting a setup, where I only need to change the particle speed seed to get a simular explosion but with a different shape. Anyways, Long story.

Comments are always welcome, help me make it better :)

Youtube - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEc2jQnYVw&hd=1)

Some really great stuff there.
But in some of your later tests there seems to be 1-2 global shifts in opacity (or something) that flicks from one frame to the next.
I'd hazard as guess that its always happening on the same frames with each test. Almost like a repetition of the same fcurve or dissipation setting is common with those with the issue.

Mawn
11-27-2010, 12:13 PM
I have a highres fumecontainer (500x1000x600). In my scene there are 2 Lights with AB Shadow maps for lighting the fume (light cone as small as possible) . If i use a low shadowmap size like 128 the scene renders fine but the rendering looks shitty because the shadows flicker. Now if i increase the shadowmap size to a value like 256-512 .. the shadows look good. but it only renders in the beginning. At a certain point of the sequence, where theres is more smoke in the container (more voxel data) fume crashes during the illumination map calculation. Doesent matter if i use scanline or vray .. happens with both renderers. my machine is a i7 3,3 ghz with 12gb ram .. so this should not be the problem. Also upgraded from fume 2 to 2.1 .. doesnt help either. so if anybody knows a solution for that problem .. that would be great! .. thanks in advance for your help. :)

Furball89
11-27-2010, 02:55 PM
Yo all

Time for another compilation of explosions I've been working on lately. It's still for my Sitting Ducks movie. Anyways, I've been trying all kinds of things to get the explosions just right, and I'm pretty close to what I want now. So, the last ones in the compilation is what I'm talking about :)
I have worked towards getting a setup, where I only need to change the particle speed seed to get a simular explosion but with a different shape. Anyways, Long story.

Comments are always welcome, help me make it better :)

Youtube - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEc2jQnYVw&hd=1)


cool explosions :thumbsup: wonder how you get the smoke to look puffy and curl more and more as it moves up (like in 49_wavelet) is it a particle source or a combination of emitters ?

PsychoSilence
11-27-2010, 06:21 PM
Some nice reference of the vulcano Krakatoa in indonesia errupting in 1080p for download :)

http://vimeo.com/16421146
http://vimeo.com/16405930
http://vimeo.com/16420446
http://vimeo.com/16419542
http://vimeo.com/16418947
http://vimeo.com/16421417
http://vimeo.com/16421146
http://vimeo.com/16424382
http://vimeo.com/16424950
http://vimeo.com/16528594

XRM
11-27-2010, 08:05 PM
Some nice reference of the vulcano Krakatoa in indonesia errupting in 1080p for download :)

http://vimeo.com/16421146
http://vimeo.com/16405930
http://vimeo.com/16420446
http://vimeo.com/16419542
http://vimeo.com/16418947
http://vimeo.com/16421417
http://vimeo.com/16421146
http://vimeo.com/16424382
http://vimeo.com/16424950
http://vimeo.com/16528594


Lolz. I already did that man :D

Glacierise
11-28-2010, 07:19 AM
I have a highres fumecontainer (500x1000x600). In my scene there are 2 Lights with AB Shadow maps for lighting the fume (light cone as small as possible) . If i use a low shadowmap size like 128 the scene renders fine but the rendering looks shitty because the shadows flicker. Now if i increase the shadowmap size to a value like 256-512 .. the shadows look good. but it only renders in the beginning. At a certain point of the sequence, where theres is more smoke in the container (more voxel data) fume crashes during the illumination map calculation. Doesent matter if i use scanline or vray .. happens with both renderers. my machine is a i7 3,3 ghz with 12gb ram .. so this should not be the problem. Also upgraded from fume 2 to 2.1 .. doesnt help either. so if anybody knows a solution for that problem .. that would be great! .. thanks in advance for your help. :)

First, use a standard spotlight. Make sure it's cone is wrapped tightly around the fume grid, this way you don't waste shadow map resolution. And then find the lowest resolution that doesn't give artifacts. That's the usual process.

Darknon
11-28-2010, 06:34 PM
Furball89: Thanks :) It's particle flow only. I'm really not sure what exactly makes the smoke curl up like that, I have lot of particles shooting out fast and lives for only 2 og 3 frames, I have a little expansion which also makes it roll more I think. It's a combination of alot of parameters I think, but I don't know exactly what makes it roll like that. I've just tried a lot of different settings, and went on with the ones I liked best..

circusboy: Thanks! I think it's the result of a very high adaptive sensitivity, it's around 20 or 30 I think. I read in here that I makes the simulations alot faster, which it really does, but the downside is those few frame to frame changes, I belive it just deletes very thin smoke from one frame to another..

Stivow: Thanks! I'm not sure what you mean. I do have problems with my fire are dying really fast over a few frames. I can't figure out how the color and opacity curve really works, It really doesn't make sense to me. It's not over age, and it's not from inside out, don't know what it is :) If someone know how it works. Please enlight'n me :)

FabianB: thanks great master :)

XRM: Thank you. What do you mean is wrong with the timing? The smoke dies too fast?

Glacierise: Thanks. You don't want to know how many save files I have :)

renaissance01
11-29-2010, 12:57 AM
Nice sims man, especially the last few. Heres a few answers to your queries :)

It's a combination of alot of parameters I think, but I don't know exactly what makes it roll like that.

Usually, the best method of achieving that extra rolling motion is a combination of high vorticity, low advection stride (the lower the value, the less dissipation of velocity and smoke) and cubic interpolation turned on which creates a lot more rolling swirls and finer details. Wavelet will of course contribute alot of rolling detail as well.

Stivow: I can't figure out how the color and opacity curve really works, It really doesn't make sense to me. It's not over age, and it's not from inside out, don't know what it is :) If someone know how it works. Please enlight'n me :)

They do actually work from inside out :) Right side = inner core opacity/colour and Left side = Outside opacity/colour. The best way to see an example of how it works is to set your fire colour to key mode and put two different colours on each side.

Darknon
11-29-2010, 04:50 AM
renaissance01: Cool, I'll experiment some more with the fire color and opacity, and thanks for the tips on smoke rolling :)

XRM
11-29-2010, 05:01 AM
XRM: Thank you. What do you mean is wrong with the timing? The smoke dies too fast?



Well by Timing I mean the timing of the explosion. Its not wrong man. I told you to play with timing coz in some of the explosions, the impact could be lot faster, you know to add awesomeness :twisted:


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Stivow
11-30-2010, 09:50 AM
Hey guys,

I'm working on a personal project (in charge of effects and character effects) and I have sort of an "eye trail" to do on a beast. A bit like the eyes of the character in blizzard's wrath of the lich king cinematic (see ref below).

I wanted to know if you guys thinks it is worth doing it with fume ? Or do you think I should turn to particles (and krakatoa for example) or even do it directly in comp ?

Maybe Andrew you could share a few tips on how you guys did on the wotlk movie (if you can and if you want to of course ;).


Ref : http://wow.4thdimension.info/files/images/t_wowlichking_intro_v2_h264.jpg

Thanks !

adom86
11-30-2010, 11:07 AM
The effect I think you are after was done here by Brandon Young

http://vimeo.com/12570644 @ about 1minute 40 seconds :P

Assuming hes used some particles but I think others will be able to elaborate more :)

Cryptite
11-30-2010, 12:50 PM
It's one of those effects that really depends on what kind of situations your beast will be in. For Arthas here, his eyes are small enough and the effect subtle enough that you'd do fine with particles+krak. If you wanted to use fume, you could, but I wouldn't deem it required.

Stivow
11-30-2010, 12:51 PM
Hey Adam, thanks for reminding me of his work. It's really cool though I'm looking into something less turbulent not real fire but a kind of hot thin smoke or something.
Definitely a good ref anyway !

circusboy
11-30-2010, 02:02 PM
It's one of those effects that really depends on what kind of situations your beast will be in. For Arthas here, his eyes are small enough and the effect subtle enough that you'd do fine with particles+krak. If you wanted to use fume, you could, but I wouldn't deem it required.
Meanwhile i would have said it would be a trivial fumefx shot and more trouble to get krakatoa involved. The hardest part will be to find what does the emission best particles sources or 'regular' one's. Context will probably dictate that.

XRM
11-30-2010, 03:27 PM
@Stivow: Man I've got a really good reference for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dljVCiQg2wY

Go to the end...Can't remember the frame where it starts...

But I personally recommend FumeFX. Just emit smoke with low timescale...Thats all...

And do show us your results :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Stivow
11-30-2010, 04:10 PM
Hey guys thanks for the tips, that's what I thought it depends on the animation and the model I'll get.

@XRM thanks for the ref, indeed it's kind of the effect I'm looking for.

Otherwise, yeah I'll keep you guys posted with the results but (sadly) it's not going to be anytime soon. It's a short (basically a huge beast fighting against a roman general), modeling is in progress then it needs to be rigged, animated and then I can start working ^^

Cheers

XRM
11-30-2010, 07:58 PM
Cheers Stivow, Good Luck!!! Looking forward to it :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Cryptite
11-30-2010, 08:59 PM
Meanwhile i would have said it would be a trivial fumefx shot and more trouble to get krakatoa involved. The hardest part will be to find what does the emission best particles sources or 'regular' one's. Context will probably dictate that.

I suppose it boils down to which one you're faster at setting up. Though I'd probably use fume for it, personally.

seb-desmet
12-01-2010, 12:20 PM
Hi,

I've tested the new fumefx 2.1a and I have a question about wavelet simulation

I simulate smoke in low res with high dissipation strength and it looks fine in low res
but when I resimulate in wavelet mode to add details, my dissipation is really different
the smoke take more time to dissapear

is anybody know why ?

ginodauri
12-01-2010, 04:59 PM
Hi

I'm new to fumeFx.

I'm maya user , but find fumefx to be more controllable for fire,smoke etc.

This is my first test.

http://vimeo.com/17341181

circusboy
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Hi

I'm new to fumeFx.

I'm maya user , but find fumefx to be more controllable for fire,smoke etc.

This is my first test.

http://vimeo.com/17341181
Awsome first test! Possibly more 'distinction' between fire and smoke but really nothing to sneeze at for a first test. And I agree about Maya too BTW.

XRM
12-01-2010, 05:39 PM
Hi

I'm new to fumeFx.

I'm maya user , but find fumefx to be more controllable for fire,smoke etc.

This is my first test.

http://vimeo.com/17341181


Hey thats really kewl man.I like it....Keep Fumig :D
Just make the smoke shader bit light. Its too dark now on the black background.

Cheers!!! :buttrock:

XRM
12-01-2010, 05:49 PM
Hi,

I've tested the new fumefx 2.1a and I have a question about wavelet simulation

I simulate smoke in low res with high dissipation strength and it looks fine in low res
but when I resimulate in wavelet mode to add details, my dissipation is really different
the smoke take more time to dissapear

is anybody know why ?


First thing first...
What is Wavelet...

Well imagine You have a 100X100X100 Grid... There are 1000000 Voxels in it. Now when you do a Wavelet sim of say 2, it actually increase the voxel count by breaking each voxel into 8 voxels. In this way it it increases the detail coz where there was just one voxelm its now 8 vexels. Now, wavelet actually increases the resolution, doesn't have anything to do with fluid properties. It just add details to the color values. It uses the velocity to do that. The velocity pushes the colors in each voxels to achieve detail. The strength parameters in the wavelet rollout controls how much it can push it.

Now back to your question, well you are viewing these changes in dissipation coz of the increasing voxel count. When it was the default sim, it has less color values then when it is wavelet. This is the way wavelet works. Nothing wrong with your setup or fume. Try to adjust it with the shaders threshold min and max values ;)



Cheers!!! :buttrock:

seb-desmet
12-02-2010, 07:56 AM
First thing first...
What is Wavelet...

Well imagine You have a 100X100X100 Grid... There are 1000000 Voxels in it. Now when you do a Wavelet sim of say 2, it actually increase the voxel count by breaking each voxel into 8 voxels. In this way it it increases the detail coz where there was just one voxelm its now 8 vexels. Now, wavelet actually increases the resolution, doesn't have anything to do with fluid properties. It just add details to the color values. It uses the velocity to do that. The velocity pushes the colors in each voxels to achieve detail. The strength parameters in the wavelet rollout controls how much it can push it.

Now back to your question, well you are viewing these changes in dissipation coz of the increasing voxel count. When it was the default sim, it has less color values then when it is wavelet. This is the way wavelet works. Nothing wrong with your setup or fume. Try to adjust it with the shaders threshold min and max values ;)



Cheers!!! :buttrock:

thx for reply I will try the treshold min and max

XRM
12-02-2010, 12:55 PM
Here's ;ittle bit more on Wavelet...The Science behind it :P

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~tedkim/WTURB/

Maybe someone finds it a good reading material..heh

Cheers!!! :buttrock:

seb-desmet
12-06-2010, 12:47 PM
Hi,

back to wavelet problem

I made other tests with the wavelet and I have something strange when I do the wavelet simulation.
here is a pic of the same frame to have a better view
is it normal to have this big difference between the simulations ?

what I did is :

- simulate my default sim (I used simulations steps because of fast object mouvement)
there is no simulation setps in wavelet mode, is it normal ?

- simulate wavelet sim (with the default settings in the wavelet tab)

thx

http://www.digitaledge.be/tmp/fumeFxWavelet.jpg

Kresimir
12-06-2010, 01:15 PM
Hey guys, nice topic, here's a little explosion I've been working on.
Any critics welcome :beer:
http://www.vimeo.com/15748876
Cheers !

That is awesome !

seb-desmet
12-06-2010, 01:24 PM
- simulate my default sim (I used simulations steps because of fast object mouvement)
there is no simulation setps in wavelet mode, is it normal ?

- simulate wavelet sim (with the default settings in the wavelet tab)



it's seems the problem is the simulations steps, If I disable it the simulations look more the same.
is it a way to use the simulations step in wavelet mode ?

Thx

Kresimir
12-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Hi,

back to wavelet problem

I made other tests with the wavelet and I have something strange when I do the wavelet simulation.
here is a pic of the same frame to have a better view
is it normal to have this big difference between the simulations ?

what I did is :

- simulate my default sim (I used simulations steps because of fast object mouvement)
there is no simulation setps in wavelet mode, is it normal ?

- simulate wavelet sim (with the default settings in the wavelet tab)

thx



Rob,

If you can email me your scene to support@afterworks.com (http://forums.cgsociety.org/support@afterworks.com) that would be great.
I am sure that problem can be solved quickly.

Thanks !

Kresimir

seb-desmet
12-06-2010, 01:39 PM
Rob,

If you can email me your scene to support@afterworks.com that would be great.
I am sure that problem can be solved quickly.

Thanks !

Kresimir

thx for your help, I have send you the scene

renaissance01
12-07-2010, 04:51 AM
If you haven't already checked them out, Brandon has added some new breakdowns for Red 5 and Star Wars The Old Republic on his site.

http://brandonriza.com/3DVisualEffects/HTML/3DVisualEffects.htm

Kudos to Brandon and the guys at Blur for all the inspiration ;)

XRM
12-07-2010, 05:24 AM
Hi,

back to wavelet problem

I made other tests with the wavelet and I have something strange when I do the wavelet simulation.
here is a pic of the same frame to have a better view
is it normal to have this big difference between the simulations ?

what I did is :

- simulate my default sim (I used simulations steps because of fast object mouvement)
there is no simulation setps in wavelet mode, is it normal ?

- simulate wavelet sim (with the default settings in the wavelet tab)

thx

http://www.digitaledge.be/tmp/fumeFxWavelet.jpg


Man what I've told about Wavelet is correct but the result you've got is too much out of the normal threshold of problems... Thats really an odd thing that has happened. Do let us know what caused it and how to fix, ok.


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

sasmitr
12-07-2010, 08:31 AM
Hi,

Are there any scripts for automation ffx sims. like sims happening one after another. Also script for the randomizing the forces.

I am working on a large scale object wherein different sims has to be done on the same object and hence separate containers. these diff sims gives me more controlin terms of making fire less or more in some parts. Any other ways to do a mountain on fire. ;)

Thanks & Regards.

sasmitr
12-07-2010, 08:35 AM
Hi,

Are there any scripts for automation ffx sims. like sims happening one after another. Also script for the randomizing the forces.

I am working on a large scale object wherein different sims has to be done on the same object and hence separate containers. these diff sims gives me more controlin terms of making fire less or more in some parts. Any other ways to do a mountain on fire. ;)

Thanks & Regards.

seb-desmet
12-07-2010, 08:45 AM
Man what I've told about Wavelet is correct but the result you've got is too much out of the normal threshold of problems... Thats really an odd thing that has happened. Do let us know what caused it and how to fix, ok.


I've tried to set the treshold values on an other smoke test but it can't fix my problem :(
but thx for the tip

I hope Kresimir will have an idea how to resolve it.

jimmy4d
12-07-2010, 11:59 AM
If you haven't already checked them out, Brandon has added some new breakdowns for Red 5 and Star Wars The Old Republic on his site.

http://brandonriza.com/3DVisualEffects/HTML/3DVisualEffects.htm

Kudos to Brandon and the guys at Blur for all the inspiration ;)


OMFG.........that shit is a inspiration to me, my pc died waiting for my new one to come in the mail.....can not wait to get back into this........ :D

circusboy
12-08-2010, 02:20 PM
Hi,

Are there any scripts for automation ffx sims. like sims happening one after another. Also script for the randomizing the forces.

I am working on a large scale object wherein different sims has to be done on the same object and hence separate containers. these diff sims gives me more controlin terms of making fire less or more in some parts. Any other ways to do a mountain on fire. ;)

Thanks & Regards.
The only reason to have a bunch of different containers for the same overall effect is if
-you need fires and smokes of different colors (unique shaders) in different spots
-you need completely different force behaviors.
-you object is so big you cannot sim a grid large enough and with any detail without your machine falling over.

Otherwise you can do a heck of a lot the just duplicating your object a number of times, using multiple sources, multiple emission maps and maybe some customized deletion of topology (via edit poly) to isolate areas of 'fire' say. And maybe only one or two grids.

The current standalone sims scripts I've heard about-but never used are:
http://vfxsolution.com/allanmckay/2010/08/fx-workshop-fume-fx-2-auto-sim-script/

ginodauri
12-12-2010, 01:34 AM
Second test.
http://vimeo.com/17719646
I like shapes that i'm getting.
Again...smoke is to dark(i like it dark , but this is to much :p )

syedamin7
12-13-2010, 02:20 PM
hey guys,
just wanted to thank everyone who helped me out and told me all i needed to know for slowmo explosions :) and if you want to have a look at what i did, they released the short. You can find it here
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=154&t=941994
I did all the fluids in the short. Except for the flare shot which my collegue did in Maya.

circusboy
12-14-2010, 06:08 PM
FumeFX 2.1a fluid mapping vs Wavelet.
Production schedule has finally allowed access to 2.1a (this is my first look at generation 2! YES!)

My original cache has fluid mapping on just the fire and it is (extra detail) exported in that cache.
My wavelet cache is going to a different folder and a custom filename (a bad idea?)
both calculate fine. But if i switch to wavelet display the render doesn't want to read the fluid mapping anymore because the 'resolutions are different'. At the same time there doesn't seem to be a way the export fluid mapping from wavelet (just exclude velocity).

Couldn't find anything documented about this. Should it work?

martaaay
12-14-2010, 07:01 PM
What would it take to get a dedicated FumeFX subforum? This is a huge huge running list that's very hard to look through and some messages disappear way too quickly when there's a flurry of messages. It'd be very nice to have these discussions on separate running threads.

circusboy
12-14-2010, 07:33 PM
FumeFX 2.1a fluid mapping vs Wavelet.
Production schedule has finally allowed access to 2.1a (this is my first look at generation 2! YES!)

My original cache has fluid mapping on just the fire and it is (extra detail) exported in that cache.
My wavelet cache is going to a different folder and a custom filename (a bad idea?)
both calculate fine. But if i switch to wavelet display the render doesn't want to read the fluid mapping anymore because the 'resolutions are different'. At the same time there doesn't seem to be a way the export fluid mapping from wavelet (just exclude velocity).

Couldn't find anything documented about this. Should it work?
I guess I have a conflict of interest with the Simulation pages Extra Detail group.
I'd like to be able to have both Wavelet and Fluid Mapping on. Seems like i can have one or the other. Kinda odd that Wavelet sims will go through the 'motions' of simming a cache-but if 'Fluid Mapping' is on instead of 'Wavelet' the result is invalid.

I should think both of these should be allowed 'on' at the same time or the Wavelet page should add an export Fluid Mapping flag. I for one didn't depend on fluid mapping so much
to 'fake' detail but more to add interest. Also used it to stifle 'burn in' so comp would have more control later.

seb-desmet
12-15-2010, 01:32 PM
Rob,

If you can email me your scene to support@afterworks.com that would be great.
I am sure that problem can be solved quickly.

Thanks !

Kresimir

Hi Kresimir,

do u find something about the wavelet problem ?

Thx

Darknon
12-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Question. what's the best shadow type to use with fumefx? I can't really get it to work. the shadow on the ground is all sharp and solid. It doesn't follow the opacity of the fume smoke. How do I get the correct shadows?

martaaay
12-15-2010, 06:16 PM
@sasmitr, check Allan McKay's website. He has a script for running through the whole sim:
http://vfxsolution.com/allanmckay/2010/08/fx-workshop-fume-fx-2-auto-sim-script/

martaaay
12-15-2010, 06:46 PM
I have an FFX sim of a rocket ship passing by the camera and flying into the distance. I have a closeup FFX box (small + high res), a medium distance FFX box, and a far one (large + low res). They each overlap by a little, and this seems to be working well.

But, I'd like to know what the "correct" way to deal with this might be. I'm guessing I need to render all boxes at the same time so that there's a little bit of atmospheric overlap -- this is a correct assumption? Is there a way to link these boxes together so they share sim info?

circusboy
12-15-2010, 07:06 PM
Wavelet is very good at making a low rez sim look hirez. Getting close to the camera is a typical reason to use it. You'll need Fumefx 2.0 or newer. Also with 2.0 there is a new source type
'FumeFX Src' with allows one fume box to be an emitter source for another.

Both of these are worth trying.

martaaay
12-15-2010, 10:45 PM
I do have 2.1, but I couldn't get the wavelet toys to hide the grid artifacts much, but I could have been doing something wrong. I'll give it another try.

Definitely going to look into the FumeFX Src.

One lesson learned was I set the smoke opacity really high to get beefier smoke at render time. But, fire+smoke near the camera had baaad color stairstepping where the smoke gradient limitations were being highlighted.

ginodauri
12-16-2010, 06:37 AM
Same explosion from previous test but put into "scene".

http://vimeo.com/17873698

As i say i like roling , shapes , so i will keep working on this.

Light is little off btw :).

circusboy
12-16-2010, 04:44 PM
I do have 2.1, but I couldn't get the wavelet toys to hide the grid artifacts much, but I could have been doing something wrong. I'll give it another try.

Definitely going to look into the FumeFX Src.

One lesson learned was I set the smoke opacity really high to get beefier smoke at render time. But, fire+smoke near the camera had baaad color stairstepping where the smoke gradient limitations were being highlighted.
Context is everything. Thick smoke isn't always a bad thing. Jitter can help. Start with the Max(=100) and dial it back until its not too obvous. Wavelet should be helping too-but you'll maybe wanna boost your strengths and detail scale. And you can't get 'something' from 'nothing' so your default sim might need smaller spacing to begin with...
But still learning these 2.1 features myself.

martaaay
12-16-2010, 08:54 PM
Great car crash reference (no body gets hurt):
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/1ebcb837a1/police-driving-skills-fail?rel=player
Sparks on street, dent on police car, smoke pushes forward with little debris.

Often when I'm layering up a composite, I know something is missing, but I don't know what. I started making cheat sheets of things to try. For instance:

Spaceship crashing through building extras:
* Break up ground
* Smoke and fire trails
* Heavy bright sparks on contact and wherever sliding
* Pieces fall off ship and tumble (slowly) toward camera
* Mild bullet time effect?
* Intense fire/smoke behind
* Deformation in the hull
* Dust cloud in front (perhaps intercepts and covers camera for transition to next shot)
* Pillars to crash through (maybe pulls down some of ceiling?)
* References: http://brandonriza.com/3DVisualEffects/HTML/StarWarsTheOldRepublic--FXBuild--S0023.10.htm
http://www.spike.com/video/star-wars-force/2874602

I'd love a wiki or blog of this sort of thing, especially with sample .max files. Maybe time to start one?

ginodauri
12-17-2010, 02:07 AM
More tests :)

http://vimeo.com/17907534

I like fire-smoke transition on this one.

Klemen
12-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Hey everyone!

I've been participating in Allan Mckay's Explosions & Pyrotechnics workshop for the past two months and I made a bunch of new stuff :)

Here are some of the animations:

-Paper Burn (http://www.klemenlozar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/PaperBurn_Audio_2_Lg_Prog.mov)

-Big Explosion (http://www.klemenlozar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Explosion_test_4_Lg_Prog.mov)

-Mortar Blast (http://www.klemenlozar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Mortar_blast_4_Lg_Prog.mov)

-House Fire (http://www.klemenlozar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/HouseBurn3_Lg_Prog.mov)


You can see more at my website (http://www.klemenlozar.com/)
Or you can visit my youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/KlemenLozar?feature=mhum#g/u)

Any comment and critique is appreciated!

pauldublin
12-19-2010, 09:43 AM
Really good work Klemen, looks like the workshop was fun. Well done

XRM
12-19-2010, 04:44 PM
@Klemen : I'm overwhelmed by your timing sense. Great job man. Keep it up...

Just simply WOW!!!



Cheers!!!:D

ginodauri
12-19-2010, 07:29 PM
Excellent work!

Darknon
12-20-2010, 07:02 AM
Great wotk :)

jimmy4d
12-20-2010, 11:57 AM
yeah man great stuff....... :buttrock:

Klemen
12-20-2010, 03:11 PM
Thanks guys! :)

NahuelL
12-21-2010, 10:51 AM
@Klemen: Great work!

Hey guys,

I have a simple src and its size is the same as the grid (it's filling it). I switched the Map Source to World/Object Coords. and added a noise map.
Now, if I render with map source disabled, it takes 5 seconds and if render with World/Object Coords. it takes 22 seconds! I'm not using any lights because it seems to take forever. Also if I move my camera inside the fumefx container (i'm doing a clouds shot), it takes 1:17 mins (without lights). And it's a really low res sim.

Am i missing something with World/Object Coords.? Is there any setting I need to change to speed it up?

Spacing: 2
Width: 200
Length: 300
Height: 100
Size: 100x150x50
Sim: up to 30mb!

Thanks
Nahuel

Darknon
12-22-2010, 10:55 AM
Yo All

I'm doing this little effects shot in part of getting to know after effects... The explosions are done with fumefx, so I thought I would share it here.

Remember, work in progress, so alot of stuff is still missing, like debris, sand dust, missile trails and so on..

Well, enjoy :)

Youtube - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbO7v57NojI&hd=1)

Oh... A little insight, It's the same explosion, just rotated 3 times :)

circusboy
12-22-2010, 02:04 PM
Pretty kewl! The color of the smoke in particular kinda suggests 'gas explosion' which is a little fish-out-of-water for this shot. It should be more about brown dirts and dusts with a bit of green grass mixed in.

JohnnyRandom
12-22-2010, 07:27 PM
Great matchmove, nice lighting, you could bump it up a notch with some grass/dirt debris, very fine job, looks good :)

jimmy4d
12-23-2010, 12:42 AM
oh yeah Ronnie............that is sweet, man I like that big time
. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Darknon
12-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Thanks all. I'll post an update as soon as I have added a shitload more stuff to it :)

pauldublin
12-23-2010, 11:37 AM
Fantastic Ronnie, I look forward to seeing the finished shot


Paul

sneipen
12-27-2010, 02:59 PM
I have a big problem, i cant delete or install fumefx.
I had problems with it so i tryed to uinstall it, and the program sayed that i had to reset the computer. After this the program is still there, but it dosent show up in max.
I tryed to reinstall, but still max cant find it. When i try to delete it the error is that uinstaller cant find setup ini file.

I tryed to recover w7, but it dosent work.
Do i need to format the f*cking computer to make this ¤%&/ program to work again?!

I really need some help here....

Problem solved.

SoLiTuDe
12-29-2010, 05:45 AM
Hey guys, thought you might be interested in a dvd that my good friend Brandon Young put together recently... I've known Brandon for a long time, and can safely say he's one of the the most talented people I've worked with... and no he didn't pay me to post this. :beer:

Production FX Workflows
Dragon Age: Origins with Brandon Young
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/ (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/)

em3
12-29-2010, 07:12 AM
Hey guys, thought you might be interested in a dvd that my good friend Brandon Young put together recently... I've known Brandon for a long time, and can safely say he's one of the the most talented people I've worked with... and no he didn't pay me to post this. :beer:

Production FX Workflows
Dragon Age: Origins with Brandon Young
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/ (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/)


bought, thanks for the link!

jimmy4d
12-29-2010, 12:33 PM
Hey guys, thought you might be interested in a dvd that my good friend Brandon Young put together recently... I've known Brandon for a long time, and can safely say he's one of the the most talented people I've worked with... and no he didn't pay me to post this. :beer:

Production FX Workflows
Dragon Age: Origins with Brandon Young
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/ (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/920/)



WOW.......Great stuff....got mine...........thanks for the tip mate.... :p

jlelievre
12-30-2010, 02:13 AM
Hey thanks for the link Solitude! Just ordered a copy and am going to check it out! You still going to be in Van for the new year? I might pop out and visit you guys; if not in Jan/Feb then for Siggraph for sure!

SoLiTuDe
12-30-2010, 04:23 AM
Hey thanks for the link Solitude! Just ordered a copy and am going to check it out! You still going to be in Van for the new year? I might pop out and visit you guys; if not in Jan/Feb then for Siggraph for sure!

I'll be here! Hit me up whenever you end up coming out here... I look forward to hanging out!

sasmitr
12-30-2010, 09:30 AM
can someone tell me why is this fumefx source used or rather wat are its advantages. could not find any proper material on the net for the same.

SoLiTuDe
12-30-2010, 06:58 PM
can someone tell me why is this fumefx source used or rather wat are its advantages. could not find any proper material on the net for the same.

You can use other fume simulations as sources for new simulations... like you could use a grid with fire in it to create smoke in another grid...

em3
12-31-2010, 01:11 AM
bought, thanks for the link!

for anyone who bought Brandon's workshop vid and doesn't have the blur tools, they can be downloaded here

http://my.blur.com/blurbeta.html

/off topic

JohnnyRandom
12-31-2010, 02:14 AM
for anyone who bought Brandon's workshop vid and doesn't have the blur tools, they can be downloaded here

http://my.blur.com/blurbeta.html

/off topic

Ah, sweet, thanks, that latest buiild I had was max9, I hit my old bookmark and it no longer worked, then went to the google Blur-dev site nothing there.

Great workshop, BTW great price too :) Love seeing different peeps workflows, very helpful.

em3
12-31-2010, 02:32 AM
i started a thread as I am having some problems and don't want to hijack the fume thread :thumbsup:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=6816598#post6816598

sasmitr
01-04-2011, 05:47 AM
hi,

I am running 3dsmax2011 with fumefx 2.1a but facing this problem of flickering. Also when i turn off the illumination map it renders correctly but increases the render time.

What could be the possible reason for the same?

regards.

circusboy
01-04-2011, 01:24 PM
hi,

I am running 3dsmax2011 with fumefx 2.1a but facing this problem of flickering. Also when i turn off the illumination map it renders correctly but increases the render time.

What could be the possible reason for the same?

regards.
Numerous flicker issues have come up in the past. Search this thread to see such issues and see if any on the circumstances and their workarounds apply to you.

PsychoSilence
01-05-2011, 03:14 AM
hi,

I am running 3dsmax2011 with fumefx 2.1a but facing this problem of flickering. Also when i turn off the illumination map it renders correctly but increases the render time.

What could be the possible reason for the same?

regards.

what's your shadow samples/map size/lights in general?
One issue derived from an issue in the DCPFLICS license server if you run AfterBurn and FumeFX on the same machine. In that case mail Kreso to get you the updated license server.

THarland
01-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Here's a little test I did after watching Brandon's new Gnomon DVD if anyone cares to check it out.

http://www.vimeo.com/18467372

XRM
01-05-2011, 07:45 PM
Here's a little test I did after watching Brandon's new Gnomon DVD if anyone cares to check it out.

http://www.vimeo.com/18467372


Already commented and liked it :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:

THarland
01-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Already commented and liked it :)


Cheers!!! :buttrock:
:D Thanks brother!
It was a fun little test.

em3
01-06-2011, 05:43 AM
I bought Madcar3 recently and wanted to do a small shot of my humvee driving and crashing into a wall. I am learning a lot about fume, pflow (just bought the Brandon Young Production FX Gnomon DVD) , lighting and pretty much everything else so please forgive the sloppy light pop. I have rendered out a few passes for my shot. I like the passes, esp. the debris pass and fume passes but when I composite them I get a pretty crappy result. I will keep on working the scene. I may even make a new one as I just learned about rendering fume in MR. In any case - this is my first shot at it. You guys are pretty awesome so if you had a suggestion or two I am all ears. Thanks!

debris pass (rayfire and pflow) - http://vimeo.com/18489010

debris fume pass - http://vimeo.com/18489053

humvee dust pass - http://vimeo.com/18489031

super WIP composite - http://vimeo.com/18473863

jimmy4d
01-06-2011, 12:00 PM
em3.......nice work man....madcar3.......gotta get it...... :buttrock:


THarland...that look sweet as hell...... :buttrock:

circusboy
01-06-2011, 01:29 PM
I bought Madcar3 recently and wanted to do a small shot of my humvee driving and crashing into a wall. I am learning a lot about fume, pflow (just bought the Brandon Young Production FX Gnomon DVD) , lighting and pretty much everything else so please forgive the sloppy light pop. I have rendered out a few passes for my shot. I like the passes, esp. the debris pass and fume passes but when I composite them I get a pretty crappy result. I will keep on working the scene. I may even make a new one as I just learned about rendering fume in MR. In any case - this is my first shot at it. You guys are pretty awesome so if you had a suggestion or two I am all ears. Thanks!

debris pass (rayfire and pflow) - http://vimeo.com/18489010

debris fume pass - http://vimeo.com/18489053

humvee dust pass - http://vimeo.com/18489031

super WIP composite - http://vimeo.com/18473863
I think your main issue with the comp is the humvee hasn't been rendered 'immersed' in the fume (or any really of the FX passes). So its in 'front of' or 'behind all' of your fx. It should be rendered as a 'black hole' inside all the fx. vray makes this a breeze in the render properties. But the standard matte/shadow material should work. Blur's free 'blurmatte' is even better (available with blur's free plugin bundle).

THarland
01-06-2011, 05:34 PM
@jimmy4d- Thanks dude! :D

@em3- I can't quite see the car after it busts through the wall. Maybe you didn't include the matte material on the car in the passes? Keep it up though, it's a great start. :thumbsup:

nidas
01-07-2011, 09:51 AM
Have anybody tried to make blood spurts with FumeFX?

I have played a little with it but mayeb some of you guys alreade have some pointers...

Thanks in advance

sasmitr
01-08-2011, 06:37 AM
what's your shadow samples/map size/lights in general?
One issue derived from an issue in the DCPFLICS license server if you run AfterBurn and FumeFX on the same machine. In that case mail Kreso to get you the updated license server.

I usually use spot lights with shadow maps and 4 samples and 512 is the map size. can u suggest any improvisations on these settings. for the later part i ll mail kreso. :)

thanks.

circusboy
01-10-2011, 02:31 PM
Have anybody tried to make blood spurts with FumeFX?

I have played a little with it but mayeb some of you guys alreade have some pointers...

Thanks in advance
Not the most logical tool for the job. You want a liquid dynamics simulator like glu3d or realflow.

joconnell
01-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Or phoenix :D

tool2heal
01-11-2011, 06:48 PM
been throwing together some tests on creating mushroom cloud shapes.
These are mainly just me figuring out the best way to go about creating mushroom
cloud/nuke shaped explosions so no complicated shading or retiming ect. was done.

So here's the first five. The last one is obviously the best at this point.
But I'm definitely figuring it out.
Wish I had known this better during the NUKE challenge :/


Details: All use 1 object source, Animated fuel parameter, high bouyancy, very little turb.
average grid size 300x300x300, quality 5 , iter. 200 sim steps 1. timescale 1.
No sim took over 5 hours. This is basically due to the fact that all fuel/temp. is created
within the first 5-10 frames. it hits its memory cap quickly and then gets faster as time moves on.
The first 30-50 frames takes about 4 hours, the next 60 or so takes half that.

Any comments, crits, ideas, questions, are always welcome and encouraged.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqeX2EegAHk

Darknon
01-12-2011, 04:53 AM
Looks great. It's always a challenge to get the right shape. Your description sounds pretty basic. Wanna share your secret settings? :)

Anyone knows what the Quality setting does? I've read somewhere that it shouldn't be set to 10 for some reason.

I agree your last one is the most nuke like. But I do like the first on the best.

nagenderboga
01-12-2011, 05:16 AM
Hi


I trying to use Particle Source to simulate a Rocket Launch using FumeFX. I have tried using a Simple source. Here is the link to that video http://www.vimeo.com/18559375 . The problem with Particle source is that the fire and smoke just doesn't rise . The smoke doesn't travel far enough to make it look realtime. For example http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/153212main_atlantis.jpg in that picture the smoke travels almost 4 times the size of the rocket. How do I do that? Thanks in advance.

tool2heal
01-12-2011, 06:26 AM
Looks great. It's always a challenge to get the right shape. Your description sounds pretty basic. Wanna share your secret settings? :)

Anyone knows what the Quality setting does? I've read somewhere that it shouldn't be set to 10 for some reason.

I agree your last one is the most nuke like. But I do like the first on the best.

Hmmm. secret settings? :) I wish.
nothing really drastic going on here man to tell you the truth.
Here's the scene file for the explosion you liked, the first one right?
really simple scene basically. Keep in mind I have a amd 5000+ with 3gb of ram
windows 7 64bit, max 2011 64bit, and fume 2.1. The spacing u see here is about my limit.
As i stated earlier, it reaches about 3400mb within the first 10 frames and then stays there

Obviously not all the scenes are set up the same, some use different objects
as sources, and sometimes multiple objects but all linked to the same object source.main things are that you have a "ground" for the explosion to spread, thats why you get that smoke that sticks to the ground.

As you can see in the scene the object expands very quickly. all the smoke is produced from fuel.
and temperature and fuel drop off shortly after the object goes back to normal size. this scene used a sphere that I edited poly and deleted the bottom half. others use a extruded circle. (a very thin cylinder) but same concept.


http://www.mediafire.com/?qaipo2mriy2ouz4

XRM
01-12-2011, 07:10 AM
I've tried the Mushroom Nuke shape. Here is my result. Can't say its nuke but Mushroom shape, yey.... :D


Xtreme Explosion (http://www.vimeo.com/15434670)

I'll discuss my secret settings :p later...Doing some work now...lemme finish it first...

Cheers!!! :buttrock:

Darknon
01-12-2011, 07:57 AM
Hey, thanks for the file man. I'll definitely check it out soon. Always great to see how other folks is getting the cool results, and hopefully learn something from it.. Thanks

jimmy4d
01-12-2011, 12:01 PM
yeah.... that looks Great Jason, Thanks for sharing too. I too like to look at other cool set ups like yours. :buttrock:

joconnell
01-12-2011, 12:25 PM
Hi Jason,

lovely movement alright - any chance you could save a 3dsmax 2010 version out for us folks living in the dark ages ;)

Aboubakr
01-12-2011, 01:36 PM
Hi


I trying to use Particle Source to simulate a Rocket Launch using FumeFX. I have tried using a Simple source. Here is the link to that video http://www.vimeo.com/18559375 . The problem with Particle source is that the fire and smoke just doesn't rise . The smoke doesn't travel far enough to make it look realtime. For example http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/153212main_atlantis.jpg in that picture the smoke travels almost 4 times the size of the rocket. How do I do that? Thanks in advance.





hi nagenderboga

i'v got the same problem when i did try to make a pyroclastic after along tests i got the tricks
here the topic

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=904054

nagenderboga
01-12-2011, 04:15 PM
hi nagenderboga

i'v got the same problem when i did try to make a pyroclastic after along tests i got the tricks
here the topic

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=904054

Thanks a lot for that link... Started doing it.... Will post a test soon. Thanks once again Aboubakr. That link really helped me.

Burritoh
01-12-2011, 05:12 PM
We're having a problem here with some smoke effects we're doing in Fume alone. No particles.

Basically, when rendered out, the smoke slightly flickers every frame or so. On some shots it happens and on other it doesn't. Can't tell what settings might be causing this.

There's no fire, just smoke. Post processing is slowing it down, but it happens in the default cache as well.

Has anyone else seen this and does anyone have an idea what the problem might be?

tool2heal
01-12-2011, 05:28 PM
Hi Jason,

lovely movement alright - any chance you could save a 3dsmax 2010 version out for us folks living in the dark ages ;)

Sure thing man, here you go.

http://www.mediafire.com/?olcx97ftlaz92bf

circusboy
01-12-2011, 06:06 PM
We're having a problem here with some smoke effects we're doing in Fume alone. No particles.

Basically, when rendered out, the smoke slightly flickers every frame or so. On some shots it happens and on other it doesn't. Can't tell what settings might be causing this.

There's no fire, just smoke. Post processing is slowing it down, but it happens in the default cache as well.

Has anyone else seen this and does anyone have an idea what the problem might be?
Fastest option for you is to search this thread to browse all the flicker issues that have shown up. Could almost use a sticky just for flickers issues because there have been many causes and workarounds.

Burritoh
01-12-2011, 06:58 PM
Thanks circusboy, I'll do a search.

joconnell
01-12-2011, 09:34 PM
Sure thing man, here you go.

http://www.mediafire.com/?olcx97ftlaz92bf

Thanks so much for that - having a look over it now!

seb-desmet
01-13-2011, 12:33 PM
Hi,


is anybody know if there is a way to render fumefx elements (fire) without the smoke alpha on the fire pass ??

or is it an other way to do the renderlayer for smoke and fire ?

thanks

circusboy
01-13-2011, 01:45 PM
Not sure i understand. But Fire and Smoke render seperatly easily. Just uncheck smoke for rendering and only fire will render...

mclawest
01-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Hi,


is anybody know if there is a way to render fumefx elements (fire) without the smoke alpha on the fire pass ??

or is it an other way to do the renderlayer for smoke and fire ?

thanks

As I know, you have the smoke in fire pass in case when you use "fire emit smoke" in sim tab.

seb-desmet
01-13-2011, 02:07 PM
Not sure i understand. But Fire and Smoke render seperatly easily. Just uncheck smoke for rendering and only fire will render...

I already try that but if I do this, the fire will be on top or behind the smoke and not inside, so the interaction doesn't work.

an image is maybe better to understand, I want to remove the smoke alpha in the fire pass
http://www.digitaledge.be/tmp/fire.jpg

thx

Darknon
01-13-2011, 03:25 PM
I often make my own alpha channels. So to make a fire alpha channel I would make the smoke all black, and the fire all white (no lights on), and on a black background. It would give me an alpha with the fire only, and tell the compositing program to use that alpha... Makes sense? Did I understand the question? :)

XRM
01-13-2011, 03:33 PM
Well if I use fire emit smoke option, I do the same as Ronnie....Its a good option...Put off the lights too :D



Cheers!!!:D

THarland
01-13-2011, 04:48 PM
Why not use the FumeFX Fire & FumeFX Smoke render elements?

circusboy
01-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Well if I use fire emit smoke option, I do the same as Ronnie....Its a good option...Put off the lights too :D



Cheers!!!:D
Ah yes I've done this too. I've also done as simple as render three beauty passes. Fire and smoke together, fire only (smoke unchecked) and smoke only (fire unchecked).

andybyrne462
01-13-2011, 10:02 PM
this is normal.

comp them over eachother as a screen, plus, or over depending on what look you want. If you use the smoke and fire render elements ans screen them over eachother it should resolve the problem.

jimmy4d
01-14-2011, 01:49 AM
I often make my own alpha channels. So to make a fire alpha channel I would make the smoke all black, and the fire all white (no lights on), and on a black background. It would give me an alpha with the fire only, and tell the compositing program to use that alpha... Makes sense? Did I understand the question? :)



sweet man thanks for that................great advice........... :buttrock:

seb-desmet
01-14-2011, 07:46 AM
I often make my own alpha channels. So to make a fire alpha channel I would make the smoke all black, and the fire all white (no lights on), and on a black background. It would give me an alpha with the fire only, and tell the compositing program to use that alpha... Makes sense? Did I understand the question? :)

good idea thanks I will try that :)

Why not use the FumeFX Fire & FumeFX Smoke render elements?

that's what I used to do the image above

this is normal.

comp them over eachother as a screen, plus, or over depending on what look you want. If you use the smoke and fire render elements ans screen them over eachother it should resolve the problem.

That's what I do but because of the fire alpha problem, the compositing is very limited,
it's hard to adjust color, opacity, ...

nidas
01-14-2011, 11:23 AM
I can´t get FumeFX render effects elements to render in full float or half float EXR´s....

We are rendering our movie with Vray 1.5SP5 in EXR´s with some additional channels.
All in 1 layer and it works great (we have additional channels, velocity, object id, material id, z-depth and atmosphere pass...)

I tried adding the matrial id to my FumeFX but then I get a message that Fusionworks effects render can´t rebnder in floating point... Is there any workaround?

Burritoh
01-14-2011, 03:27 PM
I've seen a few workflow scripts out there, but does anyone know of a script for automatically running a wavelet sim after the main sim is complete?

circusboy
01-14-2011, 03:58 PM
This one does the retiming as well.
http://3dwtv.2areg.com/t2582-fume-fx-20-auto-script-v10-by-allan-mckay

olipoli1
01-14-2011, 06:45 PM
I had the same problem and unfortunately max's environmental effects cant be renderd in floating point as far as I know. I would also be happy If someone would tell me how to render in a higher dynamic range.

A work around would be to adjust your ffx render settings not to burn out anything so later you can adjust that. Also I tried Final Render and it looked like I can get the data with that but it had some bugs so we dropped that direction.

Burritoh
01-14-2011, 09:46 PM
This one does the retiming as well.
http://3dwtv.2areg.com/t2582-fume-fx-20-auto-script-v10-by-allan-mckay

Fantastic! Thanks a bunch!

jimmy4d
01-16-2011, 02:20 AM
This one does the retiming as well.
http://3dwtv.2areg.com/t2582-fume-fx-20-auto-script-v10-by-allan-mckay



Anybody got the older script of Alans w/out the wavelet ?? I lost mine.... I keep clicking on it at his site but it gives me the .ms link above it... :banghead: .....webb stuff... :arteest: ....maybe Alan will read this and fix.......I want to use the script to do test animations and not go to the wavelet thing yet......

HeadSmell
01-16-2011, 05:56 AM
This the one you were looking for?
rollout QuickSR "Quick Sim & Render"
(
button Go "Go"
on go pressed do
(
$fumefx01.runsimulation()
render framerange:#active outputfile:rendoutputfilename
messagebox (maxfilename + " \n" + "is complete")
)

Label labAbout "Written by Allan McKay Catastrophic FX 2007" align:#center
Label LabAbout2 "Click 'GO' and the script will run the sim for $fumefx01"
label LabAbout3 "and then render it out"
)
createdialog QuickSR width:300

jimmy4d
01-16-2011, 11:46 AM
thats it.........thanks man. :beer:

herekunalsingh2
01-16-2011, 03:04 PM
hi guys.. actually i m looking for a big explosion,,, i m doing this since few days back.. i have done everything i mean i have taken out simulation of this... but not able to getting no. of curls on my explosion... and i need more curls which looks heavy really..... i have 24 gigs of ram...... but still not getting so can u guys tell me this how can i get this effects.. please tell me soon

here it is.... i need something like brandon young's result..

thx
kunal

em3
01-17-2011, 03:56 AM
Some really cool dusty dirty reference images in this one. I love the big picture!

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/01/dakar_2011.html

Glacierise
01-17-2011, 07:21 AM
Absolutely awesome. I've been watching the Dakar rally for a couple of weeks in the gym - totally spectacular. And the way they shoot it - absolutely no motion blur at all :D

Aboubakr
01-17-2011, 12:33 PM
Some really cool dusty dirty reference images in this one. I love the big picture!

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/01/dakar_2011.html

the guys who ride on the motorbikes look like a stormtroopers :p

Burritoh
01-18-2011, 04:18 PM
Back to the flickering for a moment... I my case, I had to turn off the Illumination Map's Undersampling completely. Adjusting the value had no effect. But turning it off gets rid of the flicker.

Also, turning Smoke Opacity up past 1 seems to cause flickering as well...


(Fume 2.1a)

PatrickH
01-18-2011, 07:58 PM
Is there some way to render slices of a certain thickness from a sim separately and have them keep the rendering contribution from the slices that are "hidden"? Basically what I want is to be able to render volume texture slices and have control over slice thickness and position. Would Krakatoa help? I'm not that familiar with it- but it seems like you can do cool "stuff" to/with fume sims.

Thanks for any ideas!

JohnnyRandom
01-18-2011, 10:03 PM
You could definitely cull a fume sim with a PRT FumeFX object. Check the Krakatoa manual for info on the selection channel and Krakatoa Delete modifier.

PatrickH
01-19-2011, 04:02 AM
You could definitely cull a fume sim with a PRT FumeFX object. Check the Krakatoa manual for info on the selection channel and Krakatoa Delete modifier.

Thanks!
I will look into that.

PatrickH
01-19-2011, 04:19 AM
Is there an option for the deleted particles to still have a contribution to the rendered slices? I'm looking at the documentation and so far it just seems like they would be ignored. Is there a way to hide particles from rendering but still have them "be there"?
Thanks!

jimmy4d
01-19-2011, 11:58 AM
hi guys.. actually i m looking for a big explosion,,, i m doing this since few days back.. i have done everything i mean i have taken out simulation of this... but not able to getting no. of curls on my explosion... and i need more curls which looks heavy really..... i have 24 gigs of ram...... but still not getting so can u guys tell me this how can i get this effects.. please tell me soon

here it is.... i need something like brandon young's result..

thx
kunal


haha don't we all want animations like Brandon.........give us a peek at your work, or scene file..........or your setting,.something to go on. I'm sure there's a lot help here for ya.

Cheers :)

Darknon
01-20-2011, 08:32 AM
I just wanted to show you guys my updated and improved showreel, as it contains alot of fumefx work in the last part of the reel.

Youtube - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83LqvzlZOJ0&hd=1)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_g5at13sGKMU/TTf8omJPSdI/AAAAAAAAADk/WPLGr8JD0zA/s400/Showreel_2009_remake.jpg

adom86
01-20-2011, 09:11 AM
Awesome work Ronnie... love the showreel! :D

joconnell
01-20-2011, 01:32 PM
Love the fume sim at the end especially ronnie!

Actually here's three videos from me trying to learn fume properly and figure out a method of getting what I want out of it. No where near I want to be just yet but it's a start!

Ground based particle and object small fire - http://www.vimeo.com/18639268
Simple source and particle source directional fire - http://www.vimeo.com/18928632
Particle based fire with some points from Fabian - http://www.vimeo.com/18936434

A lot learned, lots more to do :)

Burritoh
01-20-2011, 03:32 PM
Hate to ask a stupid question here...but what does everyone have Max's Units set to? I noticed that scale has an effect on Fume sims and am wonder how I should configure Max to get the best results. If you're using Generic Units, for example, what kind of scale is too big, or too small?

joconnell
01-20-2011, 04:16 PM
Not stupid at all - I was asking the very same thing and it there seems to be two aprpoaches:

If you use a huge grid size similar to how big the smoke will be in real life, by for example setting your units to system unit to inches or Cm and make your grid a hundred feet tall, you'll get a much slower and larger looking sim. The problem is that values like turbulence are going to have totally different effects at different sizes so if you'ev got knowledge of getting a certain feel at one grid size, you'll still have to do a lot of playing around if you use a far bigger / smaller grid size. You'll end up learning the effect each parameter has at small (maybe 1 meter or less) medium (maybe 10 metres) and large (maybe 50 - 100 metres) sizes, but you'll get the overall size / speed / scale of the fire or smoke right at the start

The other approach is to use the same grid all the time. You use your time scale, velocity, bouyancy, heat expansion and gravity to control the speed and size of your sim so you make it look quick and small or slow and big with this. You then learn how to tweak the size of your turbulence to get the right size of detail and noise at only one sim size so that might make your life easier. With this method you learn how turbulence works at one size only, but you have to learn more about time scale, buoyancy, burn rate and heat expansion to control whether the fire looks small or huge. You can also use the $.system_scale command to make your sim behave like a bigger or smaller sim - this will affect nearly every parameter in your sim though so beware!

It's not really an answer but I've really people getting really good results with both methods, take your pick and do lots of small sims where you have all parameters at 0, except just the one you're testing - this way you can get an idea of what each does. If the paremeter only goes from 0 - 1.0 then fine, but if it doesn't cut out at 1.0, you might need to try a really wide range of values to see any change - maybe try 0.1, 1.0, 10.0 and 100.0 as your test values. Lots of stuff to tweak, save lots of files so you have a record of what each tweak is doing!

Burritoh
01-20-2011, 04:21 PM
Thanks! I had a situation recently where I had developed the look we wanted, but it required a much larger scale than the rest of the 3D scene the characters were interacting with. I wound up linking cameras and models to a null and scaling the whole scene up to match the fume scale. Worked out ok, but seemed awfully sloppy. Thanks for your insight!

joconnell
01-20-2011, 04:30 PM
I'm personally leaning towards using real world scale at the minute. I generally do vfx work with a lot of tracking and I find it's very handy to keep continuity between shots by keeping all of my tracks to roughly real world size. It also means if I have to try and guess where an object I'm making is is or where it should be placed, I have a good idea how big it is in the real world so it takes out some guess work. It's the same with fume in this regard- if I want something to feel like a big explosion, I'll start by making the grid big. I've been talking to Fabian about this and he's on the other side, preferring to know how to use one grid size and use the controls that influence size and speed to get the scale / feel of the sim correct first, then add in all the artistic bits of detail after with turbulence. Both methods work.

I hate trying to scale animation though!

JohnnyRandom
01-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Personally about scale, I prefer to use generic units for display scale, I start with whatever the scene scale display units are, match the grid to fit then switch to generic. Probably just me though, I know how Fume parameters behave much better in generic display units. Even if everything is scaled to real world I prefer to see the params as generic.

Is there an option for the deleted particles to still have a contribution to the rendered slices? I'm looking at the documentation and so far it just seems like they would be ignored. Is there a way to hide particles from rendering but still have them "be there"?
Thanks!

I think, but am not totally sure what you are getting at, if you where to render multiple slices per frame, I would create a clone of as many slices times PRT FumeFX objects. That would be the easiest I imagine. Of course at the cost of X numbers of slices X render passes (which would have to been done by batch as you can't currently have an excluded objects in a pass in Krakatoa). Am I making sense?

joconnell
01-20-2011, 06:08 PM
Yes i've heard the same thing too - if you use a system unit set to meters, feet, inches or whatever and make your grid the appropriate size, then change the display units to generic so you get more sensible values for turbulence and so on.

On the slice rendering I think Patrick means that if he had three slices, if the one closest to camera is hidden, he still wants it to have some effect on the shadow / shading of the second and third slices, as if the first slice is still absorbing the same amount of light or blocking out the same amount of light.

circusboy
01-20-2011, 06:11 PM
Thanks! I had a situation recently where I had developed the look we wanted, but it required a much larger scale than the rest of the 3D scene the characters were interacting with. I wound up linking cameras and models to a null and scaling the whole scene up to match the fume scale. Worked out ok, but seemed awfully sloppy. Thanks for your insight!
Always try and work in the context of your actual scene's scale context ASAP in other words early in fx developement. If it is too late like you the fx is otherwised approved-scaling the scene/camera was the best way forward in that case. Might be a hack-but you may never get exactly the same result and everything has to get 're-approved' again which might not go over so well either.

If you scaled your scene up just to control the effect than the 'system scale' trick mentioned earlier is deffinetly worth a try instead first.

PatrickH
01-20-2011, 07:36 PM
On the slice rendering I think Patrick means that if he had three slices, if the one closest to camera is hidden, he still wants it to have some effect on the shadow / shading of the second and third slices, as if the first slice is still absorbing the same amount of light or blocking out the same amount of light.

Yes- that's exactly what I meant- sorry I wasn't clear. The closest I've been able to get is to have multiple PRT loaders loading the same Fume sim, each one having a seperate "slice" box as a culling object. I'm still not sure if it that will work yet though- haven't had time to test it more.

Thanks for your help guys!
Patrick

JohnnyRandom
01-20-2011, 09:06 PM
Hmmm, difficult at best. Since Krakatoa doesn't use the object properties cast shadows feature, it is either visible to camera or not. This is maybe something you would want to ask Bobo about in the Krakatoa thread, he may have a solution. As for me, I am at a loss as far as this goes.

You could pipe into pflow if you have a reasonably low particle count I would bother with anything over a couple of million. Although you may have too.

It is too bad you can't use the actual containers grid slice options at rendertime, this would solve the issue.

Burritoh
01-21-2011, 04:37 PM
After some more testing, it seems the only way I can get rid of flickering in the smoke is to completely disable Undersampling for the Illumination Map. Adjusting its value makes no difference. Smoke opacity makes no difference.

But turning off Undersampling murders my render times.

Is there no way to work around this, or is a fix in the works? Fume is no longer the fast beast it was when you have to turn off something like undersampling just to get clean renders.



EDIT: Oh, and for scaling the scene to match the sim.... in my case everything was 100% pointcached, so that helped.

Burritoh
01-21-2011, 07:58 PM
Well, I tried uninstalling Fume and reinstalling it, now it won't take my license (which is legit, in case you're wondering). The turbosquid system seems to take it, and the license server sees it, but the Fume UI tells me "no license found".

This is really great. Nice and rock-solid.

FabianB
01-21-2011, 11:06 PM
Well, I tried uninstalling Fume and reinstalling it, now it won't take my license (which is legit, in case you're wondering). The turbosquid system seems to take it, and the license server sees it, but the Fume UI tells me "no license found".

This is really great. Nice and rock-solid.

FumeFx now uses Afterflics for licensing in case you still have DCPFLICS installed uninstall it and get Afterflics from the members area! That should fix it.

JohnnyRandom
01-22-2011, 02:21 AM
Just to follow up what Fabian said, FumeFX 2.1b is out (it also includes a few bug fixes), take note that if you have Afterburn/ScatterVL/Dreamscape you will have to update them as well, as they now run on AfterFLICS too.

Burritoh
01-22-2011, 04:10 PM
Ah! Thanks. I didn't know about the Afterflics thing. I'm still waiting for my members login info...

Does anyone know if 2.1b addresses any of the flickering issues? I've considered reverting to 2.0, even though it means losing multithreading, just so I can get flicker-free smoke back.

joconnell
01-22-2011, 07:08 PM
Yes- that's exactly what I meant- sorry I wasn't clear. The closest I've been able to get is to have multiple PRT loaders loading the same Fume sim, each one having a seperate "slice" box as a culling object. I'm still not sure if it that will work yet though- haven't had time to test it more.

Thanks for your help guys!
Patrick

Unfortunately I moved away from the company where I had my krakatoa license so I can't check but is there any chance that it supports camera slipping planes as it renders? Then you could use your ranges to make your slice sections. Very heavily limited to a plane oriented to your camera though.

Only other option is to cc the lot in post :/

JohnnyRandom
01-22-2011, 07:32 PM
burritoh, a quick simple test to check if the flickering is caused by the licensing issue is on a fresh boot, start max, open the scene, and render directly. This seems to be the best indicator for the issue. If it flickers after that is is DCPFLICS if it doesn't it is another issue with your illumination/shadow setup.


Rendering in slices was discussed in the beta forum, not sure what order it is in in the wish-list though. This is actually how the renderer currently draws, along z-depth. Sure you noticed that though. Also pick up the eval, you are only missing a few options, plfow ops and a watermarked render above a certain resolution (whatever standard youtube render size is) other than that all PRT objects, modifiers, and particle management are fully functional.

Burritoh
01-23-2011, 04:58 AM
Thanks Johnny. I can't get rid of that flicker no matter what I do, and I am leaning toward it being an issue with the license server. Which by the way, makes no sense to me. How can the old license system be causing flickering in the smoke?

Hopefully Monday AM I'll have an email in my inbox from Afterworks with my login info so I can grab the update. Getting down to the wire with our deadlines here.

FabianB
01-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Thanks Johnny. I can't get rid of that flicker no matter what I do, and I am leaning toward it being an issue with the license server. Which by the way, makes no sense to me. How can the old license system be causing flickering in the smoke?

I had the same problem a few weeks ago after I updated to Fume 2.1a.
http://www.vimeo.com/16702431
For me it WAS a problem with the license system. To follow up what Johnny said, prepare your scene, close max, open max, DON'T open up the fume ui but just hit render!
If this doesn't fix it, contact the support. Everytime I had an issue with fume, Kresimir usually fixed it in about 2 hours. The support is really awesome and fast.

Burritoh
01-23-2011, 09:51 PM
Thanks Fabian.

By the way, can you share some of your settings and scales for that smoke? I'm trying to get something similar at the moment, but smoke-only, without any fire.

EDIT: Oh wait! You shared the file! Duh!