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rezaansarin
04-23-2007, 01:54 PM
hi all,

we are looking for best motion capture systems can capture good data from human and animal ...
anybody know about best optical motion capture systems in market , link and prices ?
also i have same question about human wireless mocapsystem?

thank you.

markdc
04-24-2007, 03:53 AM
You can find a list of prices here: http://cgfilmmaking.com/storydetails.php?id=100211

pooby
04-24-2007, 09:10 AM
I bought a Gypsy Gyro 18 last week. It's great as the data is very clean indeed and it takes only about 15 mins to unpack and get up and running. Plus you can use it anywhere. even outside.

The main problem, (which is not hard to overcome) is that it works out root translation by the foot placement. Hence.. if you jump, it will appear that the character is squatting down so you will need to reverse the downward curve of the root to an upward one. It's pretty easy to do.

Obviously the Gypsy Gyro 18 only works with humans.. and it's expensive.

Mr.Pottz
04-24-2007, 09:34 AM
If you can afford it....go for a Vicon setup. A basic 6-8 MX cameras will do the trick , accompanied with their IQ software. What about your capture space/volume? An optical rig can take up alot of space, especially if you intend on capturing animals. This too can be expensive.

www.vicon.com

rezaansarin
05-01-2007, 08:04 AM
thank all for answer

i search for this spacifictions :

1-capture 2 or 3 person in real time.
2-low noise in data captured.
3-my volume is about 8 m * 8 m

any body have vicon mx3 .3megapixel ?
are this camera have huge noise in small or big volume or in 2 - 3 person capturing?
if you have any knowlege about this camera please talk about it?

MasterZap
05-02-2007, 05:05 PM
I randomly bumped into these guys (http://www.xsens.com/) at Siggraph.

Their demo movie (http://www.xsens.com/download/Moven_Motion_Capturing_suit.avi) is spiffy, but what do I know, I'm a shader guy ;)

/Z

swright0644
05-12-2007, 10:43 PM
Check out www.phasespace.com (http://www.phasespace.com/). They use active led markers and no suits. Plus their equipment can be run with one operator at about 1/3 the cost, generates 480 f/s and pretty well eliminates occlusions and dropouts. Also, their markers can be attached to with lycra suits or stuck on the subject in some other way, so impeedment of movement shouldn't be a problem.

andy_maxman
05-22-2007, 12:55 PM
anyone got info on how this set up is? - Visualeyez (http://www.ptiphoenix.com/)

swright0644
05-26-2007, 05:18 PM
anyone got info on how this set up is? - Visualeyez (http://www.ptiphoenix.com/)

It appears that on each tripod is atleast 2 cameras. they place a tripod at each corner of the capture area. thus you actually have an 8 camera system with a 4 point system. Kinda nifty.

Flog
05-29-2007, 05:44 PM
www.naturalmotion.com (http://www.naturalmotion.com) will have a motion capture system in August for under 5,000 dollars!
some of the raw data I've tested with was pretty good!

andy_maxman
05-30-2007, 03:49 AM
cool! thanks guys...

:)

jomoj
05-30-2007, 02:25 PM
are you sure you don't mean http://www.naturalpoint.com/ ?

the sample data I've seen was good but not comparable in quality to that which I've captured with a vicon system. Still, big price difference...



www.naturalmotion.com (http://www.naturalmotion.com) will have a motion capture system in August for under 5,000 dollars!
some of the raw data I've tested with was pretty good!

markdc
05-30-2007, 06:23 PM
are you sure you don't mean http://www.naturalpoint.com/ ?

the sample data I've seen was good but not comparable in quality to that which I've captured with a vicon system. Still, big price difference...

True, but we're talking $5,000 versus $250,000. Plus you can do a lot with filtering.

Flog
05-30-2007, 10:06 PM
the sample data I've seen was good but not comparable in quality to that which I've captured with a vicon system. Still, big price difference...

I'd love to see how good the dirty data is using a Vicon system. I wonder how much cleanup it really takes? And how many mocap places in teh UK. Seems like everyone has one. Can I fly up and use it?

True, but we're talking $5,000 versus $250,000. Plus you can do a lot with filtering.

Brother man we need to talk about MOCAP in depth. I know you had some luck making your animation with it.

jomoj
05-31-2007, 08:21 AM
I'd love to see how good the dirty data is using a Vicon system. I wonder how much cleanup it really takes? And how many mocap places in teh UK. Seems like everyone has one. Can I fly up and use it?

The data quality is as dependent on the number, frame rate and resolution of cameras and the volume you're capturing as the actual system itself so really it's hard to say that system X is better than system Y without taking into account the other factors. My impression of the optitrack data was that the marker positioning was quite low resolution and I wondered how many cameras you'd need to cover a reasonable volume at a decent level of quality compared to a higher end setup like vicon or motion analysis.

True, you can do an amount of cleanup with filtering but the more you do, the more you can lose the nuances that make the mocap what it is. Filtering can reduce spikes and steps in the curves but it can't increase accuracy so if that's what you're after then it can be counterproductive to filter everything.

Regarding some of the other systems out there, the xsens looks promising for an inertial suit and the data looks better than the gypsy gyro but still doesnt have the accuracy of an optical system. It's also still quite a bit more expensive than the optitrack will be.

Incidentally, you might have seen that vicon are advertising the FK extreme package as a 'budget' mocap system for Ģ26,000 ($50,000?). I called vicon to find out more about it but the guy I spoke to wasn't exactly enthusiastic and was keener to push the advantages of a more expensive system. It's a bit of a confusing tactic so I wondered if it's just a way of getting people to make contact who otherwise would have been put off by the high price tag.

Flog
05-31-2007, 04:00 PM
That's hilarious, I like when they say "budget" or "lowest cost" The thing is why is motion capture so expensive these days.


50,000 USD is enough to buy a house in parts of the US and a fancy Mercedes or luxury car. It's funny considering the cameras are simply cameras that pick up color differances dots vs no dots.

Alot of the current MOCAP is not exactly new technology. The basic components of the Gypsy Gyro and the Moven system can be found in a WII Nintendo.

I wonder if someone could program a program that let's you put WII controllers on you and make a makeshift MOCAP. That would be cool.

I think it is good that there is a system coming out for under 5,000 dollars because then someone else will do it and then more and more people will be forced to pull the price tag down.

It's getting to where normal cameras will be used to do motion capture with specialized software recognizing the human body. What will some of these companies do then?

MOCAP is an interesting thing to watch as it is becoming more popular with top Hollywood, I'm sure we will be seeing MOCAP systems go down as these are becoming more common place.

We'll see what htis little MOCAP system will do coming soon.

jomoj
06-01-2007, 08:16 AM
there already are systems that use video cameras for motion tracking, vicon do one and there's also a new one from organic motion that looks interesting, if a little limited at the moment

As far as the pricing goes, if you're talking about the base cost of buying the kit itself then yes, it'll probably come down as the high end of this year becomes next years mid performance system. If you're talking about going to a mocap studio to do some capture then they have a whole bunch of costs besides the capital outlay on equipment; staff, studio space, utilities, maintenance and so on which need to be covered. For this market the real killer would be if someone came out with a system that was so easy to use and cheap enough to buy that it's more cost effective to do that than pay for a session at studio.

My guess is that companies like vicon are unlikely to attempt do this seriously as their market is at the 'high end' - film studios, sports labs etc so it's more likely that a company who don't have an interest in maintaining that end of the market will attempt to bring out a real 'budget' system.

Sniffet
09-12-2007, 08:43 AM
I bought a moven suit a couple of months ago. While the investment is quite heavy its been totally worth it. Im now seeing my business going from typical tv-show intros with flying logos and all that stuff to alot of much more exciting projects based on motion capture. Moven is the first system Iīve seen that hasnīt had any particular constraints. While you can reach 100m in range, you could cover alot larger areas if you want to. Also its alot easier to rentout Moven than a full sized optical studio ;)

helheimer
09-23-2007, 08:05 PM
I know Syndicate (small visual FX studio) also bought a Moven system (www.moven.com (http://www.moven.com/))
their description of the system: http://www.syndicate.se/default.aspx?idStructure=2213)
Surprising to see what cool stuff they did in such a short time....they got a commercial featuring mocap from Moven (of a hamster!) on German TV :-)

MasterZap
09-25-2007, 10:03 AM
I bought a moven suit a couple of months ago. While the investment is quite heavy its been totally worth it. Im now seeing my business going from typical tv-show intros with flying logos and all that stuff to alot of much more exciting projects based on motion capture. Moven is the first system Iīve seen that hasnīt had any particular constraints. While you can reach 100m in range, you could cover alot larger areas if you want to. Also its alot easier to rentout Moven than a full sized optical studio ;)

Personally, after seeing some results and seeing it in action, I've become a big fan of Moven.

As the CTO of XSENS said at EUE (http://eue.3dstudio.eu), "You could mocap a marathon, if you just could persuade someone to take the laptop on a bike and keep it within the wireless range the whole time".

Also the fact you can slap it under normal clothes (or any clothes) is fantastic. Think how much easier "Pirates" would have been to do if they didn't have to paint out all those dorky gray pyjamas all the time, but could put the actors in rough costumes that might actually be (partially) useful, or at least would cast proper bounce light and reflections around on nearby surfaces!

The fact that you can trivally rent out the suit when you are not using it with very little hassle is just extra icing on the cake.

/Z

Megalodon
10-01-2007, 12:02 AM
What is the basic cost of the Moven system?
Is it comparable to Optitrack for $5000 or much higher?
It looks like a great system with good, clean data.

markdc
10-01-2007, 07:18 PM
What is the basic cost of the Moven system?
Is it comparable to Optitrack for $5000 or much higher?
It looks like a great system with good, clean data.

$50,000 is what they said at Siggraph.

Megalodon
10-01-2007, 08:02 PM
$50,000 is what they said at Siggraph.
Ouch! I think OptiTrack looks very appealing! :)

Thanks

Flog
10-01-2007, 10:06 PM
One other option is 3dSuit.

www.3dsuit.com (http://www.3dsuit.com)

It's around $25,000 dollars and it is wireless and hooks right into motionbuilder. :)

helheimer
10-03-2007, 08:34 PM
I think most mocap systems support MotionBuilder. i know Moven does support MotionBuilder with a real-time device plug-in with actor tool support (optionally even emulating an optical marker based system).


Also, Moven has FBX export support of the raw body segment data (position and orientation) so you can avoid the inevitable feet sliding that comes with the BVH format. this also works fine in XSI etc.

check out some stuf done by InsertCoin.se or the Halo 3 launch with Moven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F-X2eUqK7g

softdistortion
10-10-2007, 05:14 PM
:comments withdrawn:

Godspeed2008
02-27-2008, 10:37 AM
I owned a Gypsy 5 mechanical system from Animazoo and then Upgraded to a GG-18, then got sent a free software upgrade to an IGS-190. For the cost the system is well worth it. I have read that Moven claim that they are the only system that can run and jump. Sorry Moven but my Gypsy 5 could do that 2 years ago and the automatic jumping in the new IGS-190 allows you to turn jumping on or off.

A freind of mine in the UK had a recent demo of the Moven system and told me that the blue tooth kept cutting out and body segments drift quite a lot. He also said that the foot steps were very unstable and floated alot. Although I believe Moven have a good pipeline for cleaning.

I found this on the web and thought I would share, it's Steel Monkey's MoCap demo for 2 days to Vegas using 2 Gypsy Gyro 18 systems.
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/2%2Bdays%2Bto%2Bvegas/video/x44a4v_2days2vegasmocapsmall_videogames

Great Music!

I have also heard on the grape vine that Animazoo have invented a tracking system that can be added to the IGS-190 to give you an absolute global position, much like an optical set up but with no occulsion or marker swopping!

bsteagal
02-28-2008, 02:25 PM
Hello all..

I own an optitrack mocap system, so I thought I would jump in here a bit. (and I apologize if I sound like a salesman... I'm a very happy customer... grin) Although not quite suited for the question asked at the beginning of this thread (the system will not capture animals... yet, and the capture volume is smaller...10x10 feet of actual capture space in normal configurations), Optitrack is still a good system that provides good data, is extremely easy to use (and portable) and you can't beat the price...

I guess a lot comes down to what are you going to do with your system, your own capabilites, size of your studio and what type of projects your are aiming for. I am a single person company doing small scale animations for my local market, training videos, etc. I looked around for several years for a system that was within my very small budget and I had originally considered the gypsy 5 and was almost at the point of purchasing it when I heard about Naturalpoint. I signed up to be one of their alpha testers and frankly have not regretted it one bit, the system is ideally suited for my purposes.

One of the things that really surprised me about Naturalpoint is their aggressiveness in providing updates to make their system better. I was one of their original alpha testers so I have experienced first hand this commitment to their product. In a span of a few months, they have come out with upgrades such as 2 actor capability (in 12 or more camera configurations)... expanded their system from 12 to 24 cameras and all of this without additional cost to their software... just add cameras or suits/markers and off you go... They are also working on getting facial and hand animation into the system in the future...

Now, the system isn't perfect, but then, which is? I originally purchased the base configuration (6 cameras) which is ok... but the more cameras you have the better your data is going to be...

Bryan

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