Modeller question

[CGmonkey]

It depends, I never use modelsheets unless I they want me to at work even there I probably only get like one perspective and one side view.

[DanielWray]

the bottom one would, it has a rough side/ front view of the head and top of the torso.

the first one would be alright, but personally, i would like at least one orthorgraphic picture, just to match up proportions etc.

have you got to model these?

[Arcanox]

I prefer things in a neutral pose. I think the first drawing is great in terms of expressing the style, but some of the poses occlude other parts of the body. It's really not all that bad though.

The second drawing is more along the lines of the neutral pose, but it's lacking in several angles. You should always have something with the front of the body well exposed and something that shows the back (even if it's just a rough sketch). Having full othrographic views from each side is kind of redundant.

Overall I think the first drawing you have there would ultimately prove more useful since there is more information to work with. Letting the artist go a bit more freeform with it's posing keeps them happy as well.

[Flog]

I don't need these modelled per say but the artist is probably the one I'll be using when his schedule clears up next month.

To be speed efficient, cost effective and such he would more than likely provide something like the below, so I really need to find out in general would 3d artists be able to capture the style and character by his drawings.

The style actually being very important as the look of the film. :)

Looks like many 3d modellers are comfortable with that information. That's cool.

[Signal2Noise]

For the first sketch I'd rather use a real live model if you know what I mean.

Bottom one doesn't interest me.

[w1as]

That's more than enough if the modeller understands the character, but it'll take longer time than the time it takes when tracing the front and left references.

[SkullboX]

I personally don't really like model sheets for anything organic. Only very few concept artists really seem to have a good grasp of drawing (near) orthographic model sheets. The girl is perhaps posed a bit too extreme (some details like the backpack or the gauntlets are hardly visible as is) it would be enough to get the character into 3D.

And although model sheets might clarify some things, I'd be more than happy with a silhouette shot for general proportions, which usually isn't really necessary either). From my experience, you always need to deviate a bit from the original concept anyway, as 2D doesn't really translate that well to 3D in terms of stylisation.

[eek]

Good reference should be:

three-quarter views
movement/angles
front/side/back/top

a physical maquette is a great help, and scan data

The key for me being a technical animator is not only how it translates into 3d, but most crucially how it will move and deform in 3d - this is the biggest problem i see. The stylisation of the character needs to translate into its movements, its blendshapes, its look, everything. So provide as much information to the modellers/TDs/Riggers/animators as possible for its range of movement so the stylistic translation can be maintained between all departments.


as 2D doesn't really translate that well to 3D in terms of stylisation.
Its how it gets translated, bluesky and pixar seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

[Flog]

I think that 2d can translate to 3d pretty well. I'm counting on it. I know slight changes would be made but hoping to capture that style


Great example is AnydH's Dean Yeagle styled model

http://www.artyears.com/exclusive/images/DEAN1.jpghttp://www.goddessfreya.info/g174/yeagle/drawing_dean_yeagle.jpg
http://www.fulpfiction.com/creators/chair_lg.jpg

3d

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/54062/54062_1163349549_large.jpg

[w1as]

Nice sig flog:eek:

[icedeyes]

ok... its difficult to translate everything but personally as a contract job i have worked with less... one image in a very bad angle (every time its the same with this client)... and it turned out really well... use your imagination and base yourself of some true human proportions (just exagerate them)...

[Ruramuq]

I would say it is posible, even if the draws are wrong on proportions, but less information = more work, more tweaking, and if time is short, then the model won't be accurate.

the first draw looks like 3 different girls, if the 2D draw is not good for 3D, then it needs to be re-designed , I mean the modeller has to draw it again.

2D can translate to 3D, and those draws seems to have enough information.
but any person who draws for 3D should draw with proportions and consistency in mind.

I think most modelers would be satisfied with a front, side, an one in 3/4 in an animated position.

[shuggie]

It can be done, but there will be a greater gap between what you have in your mind as compared to the final model, as the modeler has to use more judgement and interpretation.

Because of this, these types of projects can quickly become a nightmarish prolonged sequence of back and forth emails alterations etc, things dont get done on time, it costs more and generally the job becomes a pain in the arse.

So yes its possible, but it isn't desirable, it would probably be better for both you and the modeler if you made some modelsheets.

[twedzel]

Yeah exactly... you can fudge allot in a drawing and make it look good, but those fudges don't translate into 3d. That's where the modeller will have to interpret the designs. Now if you really know what you want, then good orthographics are the key to getting it more precisely with less room for interpretation. And I stress the phrase good orthographics. If you don't have a real idea what you want, then you can submitt anything to the modeller and have them act as designer when filling in the missing gaps. If you are hiring a concept artist, I say get them to do a series of drawings to show the flavour of the design. Then get them to provide orthos. After all they should know their design and the forms the best and leave less room for someone else to mess things up. It'll save more headaches down the road for everyone.

[Flog]

Say you were given this picture and told to capture this style

This is the style the model would have to be in
http://www.sanfordgreene.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/46.jpg

But you were given other reference material in differant styles.

http://the-adventurers-club.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/arana_issue_6.jpg
http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0105/ARANA001_COV.jpg
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/oct05/arana_cover10.jpg
http://dallas.caramelcomics.com/catalog/imagemagic.php?img=ztDJyNPalODVzMzG4NTG25LE2sLcyJLg1cjLys%2FTkp6TzdjI&w=215&h=329&page=prod_info
http://www.spyder-25.com/covers/arana/arana_07.jpg

[MDuffy]

I don't think I understand your second question, Flog, about being given other reference material.

Ideally, you have a concept artist produce a character design. The modeler then takes that design and translates it to 3d. So it is best to provide the modeler with the design you want, rather than saying "I want the character to look like this style, but have this other characters's hair and this other character's gun, and clothing like this other drawing." Work out the style, design, and clothing in 2D because that is much faster and cheaper than doing it in 3D. Then when the design is finished, take it to the 3D artist. The 3D artist will make changes to make the design work in 3D (since lots of 2D drawing cheats don't translate well), but the goal that the modeler is going for should be worked out before hand.

Modelers CAN produce models off of sparse reference material, and they CAN combine elements from this and that design or reference to create a new model. But it is slower and more expensive in manpower to do it this way as opposed to having designs work out in 2D before-hand. Also when you do it this way, the modeler is setting the style of the object. In order to keep the designs of all characters, sets, and objects working together you either need a single designer to work out everything before hand, or you need a modeling supervisor whose responsibility it is to make sure the aesthetic is consistent.

Cheers,
Michael Duffy

[Ruramuq]

but I see most people has voted for :
>That's more than enough information to capture the character

which is unrealistic

[Flog]

I don't think I understand your second question, Flog, about being given other reference material.

Ideally, you have a concept artist produce a character design. The modeler then takes that design and translates it to 3d. So it is best to provide the modeler with the design you want, rather than saying "I want the character to look like this style, but have this other characters's hair and this other character's gun, and clothing like this other drawing." Work out the style, design, and clothing in 2D because that is much faster and cheaper than doing it in 3D. Then when the design is finished, take it to the 3D artist. The 3D artist will make changes to make the design work in 3D (since lots of 2D drawing cheats don't translate well), but the goal that the modeler is going for should be worked out before hand.

Modelers CAN produce models off of sparse reference material, and they CAN combine elements from this and that design or reference to create a new model. But it is slower and more expensive in manpower to do it this way as opposed to having designs work out in 2D before-hand. Also when you do it this way, the modeler is setting the style of the object. In order to keep the designs of all characters, sets, and objects working together you either need a single designer to work out everything before hand, or you need a modeling supervisor whose responsibility it is to make sure the aesthetic is consistent.



Here is what I mean. I am having a hard time finding a good 2d artist and have found some but they are more comic artists and are the top guns in their art.

I can only afford so many sketches from them. Their work usually consists of posed characters and are really not specialized in model sheets but I like there style and they can provide several sketches from differant angles but not the standard orthos.

I on my end would use my drawings to fill in the blanks that may need to be answered, but I don't want it to look like my drawings at all when it comes to style.


The style is what I'm trying to capture. I'm going through alot of trouble to find the style, if style wasn't important I would simply draw it myself instead of hire someone but style is of the essense.

So I'm trying to get a general modellers view and get a feel if maybe I can go this route or continue searching for someone who specifically does orthos. :)

but I see most people has voted for :
>That's more than enough information to capture the character

which is unrealistic

Well that is the reason I asked modellers in general, some can do it and some do it another way. It looks like I may move in that direction to secure the artist I want. I'm glad everyone helped in this. I'm still going to work on getting orthos from the artist, but it sounds like many are confident they can capture the character this way.

[Ruramuq]

I agree with MDuffy words : "2D because that is much faster and cheaper than doing it in 3D."

It would be interesting to know about your project progress and conclusions

cheers

[Flog]

:) I"ll definatley be starting a blog once I get a few more affairs in order and I'll definatley keep you posted.

[JYoung]

I don't understand the statement "I can only afford so many sketches from them. Their work usually consists of posed characters and are really not specialized in model sheets but I like there style and they can provide several sketches from differant angles but not the standard orthos." Are they just going to sell you drawings that have already been done? If they're at the top of their game, then drawing ortho shots should be pretty damn easy. The hardest thing is actually designing a character... After that, drawing a front, side, 3/4 view is pretty easy for an accomplished artist.

If you're paying to have them design a character, make them draw the ortho views. Yes, it's certainly possible to take one drawing from any angle and come up with something that resembles it. I've seen your posts regarding the project and how much trouble you've had finding an artist to capture the style you envision. If you leave too much up to the modeler, you may lose some of that style, and that seems like a waste.

[Flog]

No character designing involved, they are simply translating the designs into there style, which the 3d artist will have to turn into a model!

I agree about leaving to much up to the 3d modeller and losing that style as I have searched for a great stylist and that is what spawned this Poll and question. Just wondering how much a modeller would need to get the job done and capture the style.

Thanks for following my project as well, that's cool to see it's picking up some speed. :)

[Flog]

No character designing involved, they are simply translating the designs into there style, which the 3d artist will have to turn into a model!

I agree about leaving to much up to the 3d modeller and losing that style as I have searched for a great stylist and that is what spawned this Poll and question. Just wondering how much a modeller would need to get the job done and capture the style.

Thanks for following my project as well, that's cool to see it's picking up some speed. :)

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