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View Full Version : The Wizard's Audi TT - The Truth!!

The_wizard
03-11-2003, 11:34 AM
Since the original thread about my Audi TT has been closed, I am forced to start a new thread explaining exactly what the deal is with the Audi TT picture. Whether the admins want to merge this one with the old one, let this thread run, or close it is up to them.

Ok, it was a photograph that I had altered in an attempt to make it look CG. Why you ask? I'll tell you why. I've been looking at these forums for a very long time, and I often see people post very good work, only to have other users nit-picking tiny little flaws in their work, often of which, correcting these flaws won't result in any noticeable difference.

I know these forums are here to critique work, but to point out ridiculous errors in images posted just seems like posting something just for the sake of posting something. Its almost as though people think they gain respect for the higher the number of posts they have, and often really strain to come up with any fault just so they can reply to a post, increase their post
count, and gain "respect".

Anyway to test my theory I decided to test the nitpickers. In no way did I attempt to fool them, or attempt to make them look stupid, I just wanted to test them. I found a picture of an Audi TT and spent about 30 minutes in PhotoShop to try and make it look CG'ish. What I was hoping to see (and did) was people post saying things didn't look "right". I wanted people to say
the mesh, the lighting, the rendering or whatever wasn't good enough to be passed of as the real thing... even though it was.

I guess this proved my theory, or I could be wrong and maybe they were just trying to be helpful and give me some advice.

The more I look at the image the more I think it would have "fooled" more people if it hadn't been for the first reply post doubting its authenticity as a CG image. If it hadn't had been the first post, I expect that less people who replied to the thread would have suggested that it might also be a photo, and would have taken it at face value i.e. a CG image.

Realistically I didn't want the thread to turn into a debate on whether the image was real or not, nor did I really want to have to post to it again to try and prove that it was real by posting some wireframe images. I attempted to buy myself some time by posting some images that looked corrupted to hopefully drag the thread out to April 1st where I would have revealed the true nature of the images but this isn't going to happen.

As soon as I saw a post from an admin who threatened to close the thread it pushed me into making this statement earlier than I wanted to, to really see how many people would critique a real photograph pointing out flaws on a real car.

So what have we learnt from this? You guys tell me.

I guess I could have considered myself successful if no one thought it was a real photo, and if my image made it onto front page of cgtalk. This is the way the industry is going. Computer generated images are starting to look more real all the time, and even though this picture wasn't a genuine CG image, I can guarantee some you will see in the near future will be.

To be honest I'm surprised no one has tested these forums in this way before... or maybe they have, and we just didn't realise it was a photo they posted.

For those of you who liked my PhotoShop work here is the original photo. Maybe I should write a tutorial on my PhotoShop "skills" in how to fake a CG
image :)

Cya

The_Wizard


Original Version
http://www.boomspeed.com/the_wizard/real-TT.jpg

Modified Version
http://www.boomspeed.com/the_wizard/ATT.jpg
Aros
03-11-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by The_wizard
So what have we learnt from this? You guys tell me.


That noone can trust any of your upcoming new work?
Nice job .. not.


Originally posted by The_wizard
For those of you who liked my PhotoShop work here is the original photo. Maybe I should write a tutorial on my PhotoShop "skills" in how to fake a CG
image


Err.. Everybody knew it was a photo. If you're gonna write a tutorial about something, do it about laming.
The_wizard
03-11-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Aros
That noone can trust any of your upcoming new work?
Nice job .. not.

Err.. Everybody knew it was a photo. If you're gonna write a tutorial about something, do it about laming.

It looks like you have completely missed the point.
Aros
03-11-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by The_wizard
It looks like you have completely missed the point.

I know that you wanted to 'show' us that CG graphics are looking more and more realistic these days. But we already know that..
Astral
03-11-2003, 11:59 AM
I do agree with you that some people just post to post. I have seen great images on here put down or riducled for the most stupid reason's. Clearly jelous play's some part but I think the person posting can ignore it. Stahlburg is a great example of ignoring and it just makes that person look worse..

Having said all that.. this is the WRONG way to make that point. It can easily be seen as you tried to fool people and got caught.
The_wizard
03-11-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Aros
I know that you wanted to 'show' us that CG graphics are looking more and more realistic these days. But we already know that..

I don't want to turn this thread into an arguement on why I did what I did. The point I made about CG graphics becoming more photo like was just a closing point, not the reason for the experiement. I did it to see if people would nit-pick a photo, and if you re-read the original thread, some people did.
karl
03-11-2003, 12:01 PM
Yes but he was also saying that some of you lot are a bit too critical and state faults that are actually real.

Someone said something about the lights and wheel or hub cap or whatever......it's from a photo so why are you insisting there are things wrong with it!!!!:hmm:
Astral
03-11-2003, 12:06 PM
Let me just add after having read that thread.. since I had not

the picture was picked out right away as a fake and tore apart. It was not a good fake at all. It look's like a picture. We all know CG can look real. There is usually a sign or two to give away cg even on a perfect model. Such as lighting, textures, reflection's etc
Incitatus
03-11-2003, 12:10 PM
It was pretty clear it was a photo.
I think the people that thought it was real (real CG that is ;)) should look some more at CG.

About the nitpickyness, I agree there is a lot of that. Still bad idea to make a thread (or 'experiment') like that.
The_wizard
03-11-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Astral
the picture was picked out right away as a fake and tore apart. It was not a good fake at all. It look's like a picture. We all know CG can look real. There is usually a sign or two to give away cg even on a perfect model. Such as lighting, textures, reflection's etc

As I wrote in my explaination, if the first reply to the original thread hadn't questioned whether it was a photo, I doubt so many of the other people would have either.

I disagree with your statement about the image not being a good fake. Ok, it may have not been perfect, but SOME people did think it was CG, so it was good enough for them, and good enough for me.
Witchy
03-11-2003, 12:11 PM
>>So what have we learnt from this? You guys tell me.

That instead of coming to these forums to pick up tips and look at the work of real modellers you faked a model to try and get attention.

Your argument about testing the nit pickers was flawed, because the very people you criticised for having a go at other peoples' work were right about yours. Your 'test' is completely illogical. In order to really 'test' people here you should have made something astonishing and then produced the wire frames. But perhaps you can't do that.

I find it rather amusing that you then return and tell people they have 'missed the point' as if you have just done something clever. It strikes me that all you did was something rather sad.

>>The more I look at the image the more I think it would have "fooled" more people if it hadn't been for the first reply post doubting its authenticity as a CG image.

That's probably because your PS skills were not up to scratch either.

>>What I was hoping to see (and did) was people post saying things didn't look "right". I wanted people to say
the mesh, the lighting, the rendering or whatever wasn't good enough to be passed of as the real thing... even though it was.

If you compare your image to the photograph the alterations you made simply made a good photo into a bad one. You did not fool very many people it would seem- perhaps a better use of your time would have been working in PS or a 3D modelling programme and improving your skills. The 'trick' with the corrupt images was nonsense- once you did that even those of us who would have wanted you to have a chance to prove yourself, knew you were a liar.

I do think some people here are very critical but I think most do it with good intentions. If the industry professionals could have a little more tolerance for those of us who are professionals in other industries and amateurs in this, that might be nice.

But the way to go about asking for that is not to fake things up and lie about your work- all that proves is that you did not feel you had a strong enough argument to make for people to change. And all that leads to is people not bothering about their behaviour and instead looking and mocking yours. I think you have done a disservice to those of us who would like to see help rather than sarcastic smilies from some (not all) people. And you do an injustice to the really helpful people who give up their professional time to offer hints and tips.

You also did a disservice to that rather nice car pic you messed with. But we'll gloss over that.
Daniel
03-11-2003, 12:11 PM
...what a waste of time!
And space!

"For those of you who liked my PhotoShop work here is the original photo. Maybe I should write a tutorial on my PhotoShop "skills" in how to fake a CG
image"

Hoho, No need ! :p

cya.
The_wizard
03-11-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Daniel
...what a waste of time!
And space!

"For those of you who liked my PhotoShop work here is the original photo. Maybe I should write a tutorial on my PhotoShop "skills" in how to fake a CG
image"

Hoho, No need ! :p

cya.

Apparently sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet.
The_wizard
03-11-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Witchy
That instead of coming to these forums to pick up tips and look at the work of real modellers you faked a model to try and get attention.


This is starting to get ugly, and I expect this will get closed soon. I didn't post the original thread to get attention, i posted it to test a theory and make a point.
Daniel
03-11-2003, 12:22 PM
Ach Junge, werd erstmal erwachsen! :D

ADMIN: Please Close or move that thread to another subforum (General Discussions)!

Cya.
Astral
03-11-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by The_wizard
As I wrote in my explaination, if the first reply to the original thread hadn't questioned whether it was a photo, I doubt so many of the other people would have either.

I disagree with your statement about the image not being a good fake. Ok, it may have not been perfect, but SOME people did think it was CG, so it was good enough for them, and good enough for me.


all you did was some pretty bad blurring and adding a horrible wireframe that does not match up at all with the car

Having read that thread now I think you just got caught. Period, and this is some type of smoke screen if you will. We know people can make life like rendering's. So what? if I wanted to make life like vehicles then I would be in cad. People do it for a living in cad every single day. This is not a cad site.

If I was you I would not post for awhile. I am sure this thread will be closed
lildragon
03-11-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by The_wizard
[B]So what have we learnt from this? You guys tell me.


That you have nothing else to do with your time. You're lucky I'm not banning you, consider this your first warning.

I'll leave this thread here, just so peeps know you as a user that "tried" to make a moot point. Good luck gaining any respect after this. Might as well change your username cause you've dug your own grave.

thread closed