View Full Version : Updating bhodiNUT Plugins to v8
Howdy all,
darf here and things are starting to move along nicely. Here are the plugins in development order and some issues I am currently evaluating and would appreciate any input:
NICKL v2
It now supports a very robust interactive falloff system ( much more sophisticated than earlier version ). A new Material function has been added to allow for fully keyframed materials to be used in the deformation. The custom period noise has been updated to maintain a level continuity and a little speed increase. There are of course many other new features written while I was using it in production. I added a tag that evaluates the deformer to create a position and / or orientation for another object. There is also an interactive editor tool for easier placement of objects and a few functions I needed while doing production. Also in there is a new coordinates manager which adds a few new functions that really help when doing motion graphics. Last but not least is the export plugin from v7 and the import plugin in v8 that allows parameter animation to be moved to v8. v8 does not currently support importing parameter tracks and this was not acceptable to me ( just think about losing your parameter animation with JENNA objects, !@#$ ). As far as questions for the users: What would you like to see in NICKL ( I make no promises, just want hear from the users ). This plugin will be pay for play.
JENNA v1.5
This is pretty much a rewrite to make JENNA work in v8. It is over seventy percent done. There are a few new plugins that cover some new territory. I added the ability for ITERATOR and TWEENER to output the positions of each step as a spline. This was a cool thing that just seem to work well. MESHARRAY had a few new cool additions ( yeah, texture, vertex map support, as well as mesh based variation ). Are there any issues users would like to see addressed ( again, no promises ). It is a pay upgrade.
PRALINE
I have added two new shaders to the line up. One is a tiles shader that uses subframe baking to make the result MIP as a bitmap ( tiles basically becomes viable for production work ). The other is a shader that allows TP data channels to be used for rendering. The rest are ports to allow AM editing of the parameters and animation of controls. There could be other little surprises. The upgrade will cost a few bucks.
PENNY
I have updated the core algorithm to be based upon PERLIN's updated noise function. Pretty much eliminates discontinuity in the noise and is a bit faster in some cases. At this point I considering consolidating PENNY into PRALINE. Really would like some input here.
Input is appreciated.
darf
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ThirdEye
03-10-2003, 07:02 PM
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Per-Anders
03-10-2003, 07:04 PM
Just looking forward to these being released for v8 :D
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
AdamT
03-10-2003, 07:18 PM
Sadly the only input I can think of is :applause: :drool: :thumbsup: :buttrock: :bounce: :wavey:
sulian
03-10-2003, 08:18 PM
Good news :thumbsup:
medula
03-10-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by AdamT
Sadly the only input I can think of is :applause: :drool: :thumbsup: :buttrock: :bounce: :wavey:
Ya, what Adam said!
:):)
should you call the new updates. SLR Smells like reincarnation?
sounds great I love the sound of Nickl
What everyone else said + :thumbsup: x :D
When you get all that sorted darf,is there any chance you could consider making an advanced modelling toolset???
Stu.
squidinc
03-10-2003, 10:44 PM
cool :) :eek: :thumbsup:
Hi Darf,
it's great to know we'll have our favourite toys back, and updated!
I never used JENNA, so I may be getting a second chance!
About PENNY being integrated in PRALINE, I think it makes sense and makes the whole pack more valuable.
About NICKL, there's something I'd REALLY LOVE to have in there: some ocean waves algorithm to create ocean like surfaces.
You can see what I'm talking about in Tweakfilms' TweakWaves demo, that you can download at www.tweakfilms.com. It's mac only but it's definetely worth a look at.
I think this is completely in the "spirit" of NICKL, but I don't have an idea of what it would take to implement something like this. Something like this could also evolve into a dedicated Ocean plugin, with shaders and such, but for now, having those deformations in NICKL would already be a dream come true.
A simpler alternative to this request would be to support C4D's built-in Water shader, which wouldn't be a great solution but would be better than nothing. I already done some tests with this shader and DiTools and we can get some acceptable results, but nothing as customizeable as that TwaekWaves demo.
That's it for now,
bry
room61
03-11-2003, 07:48 AM
Thanks for information
neods
03-11-2003, 08:07 AM
Really nice to hear this.
Hopefully Nickl will be released for PC too this time.
Cant wait..
Darf
This is great news.
Nickl sounds excellent as usual. The material deformation is a great move forward. Will we be able to specify the channel used for the deformation and will it support 16bit images?
With Jenna I'd like to see a switch for auto update on or off for all the plugins not just Allie. Minor request but it will really speed up workflow on heavy scenes. Presumably now all the parameters will be accessible and keyframable via the attribute manager.
Praline and Penny I don't have. Do you have a description of the plugins included. I know that one helps with ambient occlusion with environment maps and penny is a noise generator (am I correct?) I'm sure there is more to it.
As far as bundling them together, I think selling each 'suite' seperately is the best bet but maybe bundle them all together for a special price.
Good luck and I hope you have many customers!
cheers
Tim
p.s. What happened with the After Effects plugins you've mentioned before?
Chrissyboy
03-11-2003, 12:22 PM
Hi darf, good to hear things are progressing. A couple of requests from me.
1) Jenna
I'd really like to see the channel driven behaviour of Allie available to the other parts of Jenna, other than that what you described sounds seriously dandy ;-)
2) Penny
I do like Penny a lot, but I always have a fight getting it to loop how I want it to, especially if the texture is moving - tweaking animation speed etc always breaks the looping and it takes me ages of chin scratching to try to work out how to get the looping back.
This could just be me being thick, but if there was a 'loop me' button I could press for the plug to auto-detect object size, and animation length, and apply looping accordingly, with the speed and movement parameters I've applied, then I know I'd be using Penny a whole lot more.
Integrating Penny into Praline makes sense to me too.
Thanks - C
chris_b
03-11-2003, 01:26 PM
great news ...
:applause:
Praline:
I have always wondered whether you have had plans to develop an ambient/environment occlusion shader (extension of DirtyNUTS). A tool like this would fit in perfectly with the rest of the Praline suite.
How about Baker? Are there technical reasons for why that never progressed further?
Thanks again for everything.
AdamT
03-11-2003, 01:42 PM
Oh yeah--not to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to see more in-depth manuals and some included tutorials accross the board. I bet that you'd have several volunteers to help you with Jenna/Praline/Nickl for Dummies manuals.
flingster
03-11-2003, 01:43 PM
fantastic news...i thought these products were dead in the water and it seems this is not the case.
i can't wait to see jenna available for r8, consider me your first new user order!:buttrock:
Secondly thank you very much for continuing to contribute to a vibrant c4d community and at least upgrading the current product line with r8.
lastly i wish you every success with your endeavors in the future.
:thumbsup: :applause: :applause: :thumbsup:
Erik Heyninck
03-11-2003, 01:56 PM
The King is dead: long live the King. Or president, or whatever.
This is fantastic good news. I still hadn't pushed the plugins to the limit, so I can't add any wishes here, but count me on for the upgrades.
You made my day!:beer:
I was testing the plugin for getting projects with parameter animation from v7 to v8. I realized it is a serious task for the user ( requires several steps ). I have decided there will be two different plugins for each of these. Classic and New. I know this seems like a pain in the !@#$, but there is a logic. Since I have learned so much ( and the advances in algorithms ) the base architecture of these plugins has to change to really take advantage. Therefore, I have NICKL classic and JENNA classic that are completely written for v8. Then there are the updated plugins that add the v8 functionality such as baselinks ( instead of children ), updated noise algorithms ( because rendering old projects with new NICKL should not change the look ), etc... Does this make sense to everyone?
Input this time!!! :argh:
darf
I will not be building any specific water simulation algorithms into NICKL. But, you can use materials in NICKL v2 ( yes, with texture projection and all the good stuff ) which allows the use of the C4D water shader as well as any shader that might be written to do water surface simulation.
darf
Water Simulation:
That's not the ideal solution, but it's better than nothing...
About the other plugins having a Classic and a new version, what about having the exact same plugin with an option for working in Classic mode or in new mode? It would be less confusing since there would be only one plugin, but maybe internally you would still need 2 new plugins to mantain retrocompatibility.
bry
JoelOtron
03-11-2003, 05:37 PM
So, it sounds like you are saying that those who need to work on old Jenna projects in R8 will need to get Jenna Classic, which ports the identical functionality of R7's Jenna into 8.
For those who are starting fresh and do not foresee the need to work with older projects in shich Jenna was used, The brand new version with newer features would be the way to go?
Sounds a bit confusing, but if that works best for you, then great. Will they be identically priced (classic vs "new")? Can you bundle them?
OK, I understand two plugins seems a bit akward at first. Here is my logic:
The v8 SDK changed so much ( adding baselinks instead of the naming or index convention, the AM, new messaging possibilities, etc... ). To maintain the old style began to confuse the hell out of me ( I am writing the stuff ). At this point I believe it is much better to have the compaitibility version for ease of use for users who expect the old NICKL and then the new version that adds the functionality that progress demands without it becoming constrained or confusing ( I am looking at writing a menu plugin that will convert the old to the new once it is in v8 ). As for water simulation I believe a good viable solution should be focussed on fluid simulation and not added as another layer on NICKL. I can see a workhorse tool becoming to complex to use. The viability of NICKL is it's ease of use and focus ( v2 will not disappoint in the new features department ). OK, back to work.
darf
JoelOtron
03-11-2003, 07:07 PM
Get back to work by all means (as I should myself!) but I'm wondering if you are planning on releasing Classic and Updated versions of each plugin discussed separately or if they will be included together.
If I purchase Jenna, will I then have the option to buy Jenna Classic and/or "Super-Jenna" ----
OR
If I buy Jenna, will it come with both plugins sets, both of which would be installed into R8--and both of which would need to be accessed separately when used (Jenna Classic and Super Jenna)?
Thanks darf.
Theres your "input"
No back to the darf worship
:applause: (etc etc etc)
There will be NICKL Classic and NICKLv2 in the same update. Same idea with JENNA. The newer versions just simply make use of the v8 SDK making workflow smoother and the results a bit more refined.
darf
harveyc
03-11-2003, 07:41 PM
please update nickle sounds great
:applause: :applause:
JoelOtron
03-11-2003, 07:49 PM
BTW--
I use Nikl all the time for like EVERTHING you can think of.
Looking forward to the enhanced version.
Chrissyboy
03-11-2003, 10:23 PM
Hi - I hope I understand the 'classic' v 'new', but for what it's worth, I wouldn't expect or demand that an old project that was made with C4DR7 and the old Jenna to necessarily open successfully, or look the same, when opened in R8 and Jenna2. I've kept R7 knocking around for just that sort of eventuality anyway.
We all know you're not a huge software company with unlimited resources, so if it's significantly more work to produce two versions of updated plugs, then my vote is to just go for the R8 optimised one.
Was that the input you were after?
JoelOtron
03-11-2003, 11:51 PM
Actually, I would second chrissyboy's vote.
Back-compatability of Jenna/ Nickl files aren't important to me.
Originally posted by darf
I will not be building any specific water simulation algorithms into NICKL....
darf
Will you do it a dedicated plugin then? ;-)
bry
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