my god...

[Strang]

can you identify how it is slowing you down? explain your passes briefly, the amount of passes, and how different they are... also if you could explain how it would have been faster in 5.x?

we need to discuss this so we can iron out the details and send them back to softimage. i understand what your going through but i have had pretty good success with setting everything up. it requires a bit more thought process.

identify which passes will have the same options, and duplicate them from the same one.

two notes on this...

this overhaul was important! why you ask? cause now we have support for 3rd party rendering options to fit in the workflow. the comm0n rendering options were abstracted from the mental ray (renderer specific) options. now 3rd parties can use the common options, and just implement their renderer specific options.

the render manager is a plugin that can be changed if you would like, you can trim the fat and/or add your own stuff into it. we could mod this plugin and share them and revise it until it is slick to use again. something concrete to show softimage in my opinon

[JDex]

My brief experiences with 6 and 6.01 led me to be very happy with the changes, but I really haven't been able to do a complicated scene with it yet, because of stability and availability. I'd love to see more discussion occur in line with what Steven has mentioned.

[NRG-Alpha]

My brief experiences with 6 and 6.01 led me to be very happy with the changes, but I really haven't been able to do a complicated scene with it yet, because of stability and availability.

'availability'? Jason, I'm not sure I follow you on that one. Is Softimage behind on its orders / shipments?
But speaking of stability, I am currently holding out on version 6 because of just that (or lack thereof). I know version 5.1 is rock solid.

Since Softimage has released the point release version 6.01, has the stability been greatly improved? One would think that the most fatal crashing bugs would be definately the first things to get fixed. I was just wondering if any of you have upgraded from 6 to 6.01 and noticed any difference in stability.

Cheers,

NRG

[Strang]

i have noticed better stability...

but you shouldn't take my word for it, just test it

steven

[JDex]

Sorry mate... I meant my availability. You may have noticed that I'm not as active here as I once was, and it's because I'm very busy. Much to busy to dig in deep with XSI 6.01, especially because it has crashed in various ways when I do run it. Wish I had time to help debug it though. :(

[halfdan]

I would also be extremely interested in knowing what you perceive as the bad points with the new system. Is it just lack of familiarity or is there something fundamental missing?

[ThE_JacO]

it just took me 1h to set up all the passes properly in xsi 6.x

would've taken me 5min in good ol' 5.x render settings.

please don't tell me "rtfm", i have it. it's just... you know...

The next time you feel like creating a thread with such a meaningless title, and an equal amount of lack of information into it, please breath deeply a few times, and then refrain from doing it.

B*tching sessions for the sake of it are not welcome on these forums. You either explain exactly what you don't like, and how a difference that's a dozenfold (5 to 60 minutes) came into being, or you keep the flaming to yourself.

thanks in advance for understanding.

[Sbowling]

I would also be extremely interested in knowing what you perceive as the bad points with the new system. Is it just lack of familiarity or is there something fundamental missing?

I love the power behind the new setup, like being able to render several passes in a single pass, but it is very confusing compared to V5.x. My first experience with 6.x was rendering out a logo animation, because I thought it would be quick to render out all my passes at once. In truth, I probably spent about 25 minutes, just trying to figure out how to turn motion blur on.

It's extremely obvious now, but having things like this "Motion blur is active for the scene by default" (under the subject rendering with motion blur) in the online help doesn't help. Also ,the trouble shooting motion blur section makes no mention of having to turn motion blur on for the passes.

I guess, my complaint in this area really has more to do with the help, than the way it's setup. Looking at it, the way motion blur works is a lot different than it was, but it looks like the help for it is the same as in 5.x.

[halfdan]

I guess, my complaint in this area really has more to do with the help, than the way it's setup. Looking at it, the way motion blur works is a lot different than it was, but it looks like the help for it is the same as in 5.x.

I take full personal responsibility for that. The rendering core rewrite took longer than expected and so the UI work didn't get completed in time for the documentation team to do a full pass and detailed explanation of all the new bits. Writing good documentation is hard work, takes a long time and a good dose of talent.

[toonafish]

B*tching sessions for the sake of it are not welcome on these forums.


breeth deeply..and relax....:D

[Sbowling]

I take full personal responsibility for that. The rendering core rewrite took longer than expected and so the UI work didn't get completed in time for the documentation team to do a full pass and detailed explanation of all the new bits. Writing good documentation is hard work, takes a long time and a good dose of talent.

Shame on you. :D Actually, now that I know what to look for it's not so bad. Will the help/docs be getting updated any time soon?

[LemonNado]

I am, by comparison, a CG noob. I am not a rocket scientist either. But it took me only half an hour to figure out what the new 'way' was. For pete's sake.... it's 'only' mental ray and it's for 95% the same animal than before. The UI is slightly different, but it's not as if you have to script to render because the render passes are only sdk functions now. So, let's not behave as if we can't cross the street any more because the traffic lights are purple now.
Rainer

[tachy0n]

I would also be extremely interested in knowing what you perceive as the bad points with the new system. Is it just lack of familiarity or is there something fundamental missing?

Mine would be (well not anything missing, more like an enhancement) that right now the whole render/pass management is very sequential. ie you choose a pass(s), set its options, then choose the next and so on.

While this works fine if you only have a few passes, as the number of passes grows, it would be nice to be able to see what all is going on in all the passes at a glance. Yes i know that you could use the XSI spreadsheet tool to do this but creating a proper query for it is not a trivial task, and not very artist friendly.

A spreadsheet preset for this (or a new editor) that allows you to select some passes, then see and edit their settings in one place would be nice IMO.

[el_diablo]

tachy0n, good thinking. I agree completly. Comparing more than one pass in some sort of an editor would be a good thing. Spreadsheet...update it or kill it. I want to make queries in a sql like syntax right there in the window not programm anything.

[Strang]

render manager>summary tab will give you a really simple txt breakdown of the pass render options.

i dont believe you can edit it.. though i maybe wrong

[tachy0n]

No its not editable, and even if it was, it would have been a lot more cluttered then a simple intuitive spreadsheet.

And actually this is a more general issue then just passes. Basically they need to figure out some improvements in the whole multi ppg system they have. While being able to select a bunch of things and manipulate them in a single ppg is great, it is too limited. When you have a mixture of similar and modified values, all you see is a '?' or blank text which is not very helpful. It doesn't tell you anything about what the values actually are and which objects have them.

The spreadsheet if beefed up and made more flexible/easier could be a good solution for this, and the pass thing would automatically take care of itself. Imagine that when you select multiple objects and press enter, the normal multi ppg pops up like usual. But in the corner it has a button that launches the spreadsheet for the current tab of the selected objects so you can do finer editing if needed. Would be a nice feature i think.

[solagratia77]

..... But in the corner it has a button that launches the spreadsheet for the current tab of the selected objects so you can do finer editing if needed. Would be a nice feature i think.

Great idea !!
I am not complaining but it is so true, I spend so much time 'Select-Edit' 'Select-Edit' 'Select-Edit' 'Select-Edit'....

You should submit your idea to Softimage.

[colintheys]

Yes. The spreadsheet would really be a great addition! I personally really like the new rendering setup, but that is a notable weakness.

Another really useful addition would be to allow the new render manager to be a ui placable element, like the shape manager. In other words, I'd like to be able to create a tab in my layout containing the render manager instead of having to open and float it every time I need it. Would be very handy. Especially seeing how opening the render manager is something I do frequently and briefly, I find myself simply using the explorer and properties editor I've got in my layout instead.

[el_diablo]

I just wanted to add that in the previous versions of xsi there was an addon by mr. Guy Rabiller: http://grabiller.3dvf.net/site/index.php?lang=eng, that did make render passes more managable. It 99.9% doesnt work with 6.x i think, due to the changes in passes handling, cant check that right now.

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