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arketype
04-04-2007, 06:37 PM
I have had this idea for generating a multi-layer paint effect in EIAS without mforge (which IS fantastic).
I finally got around to trying my idea.
Here is the first test. It seems to be relatively successful.
This uses no third party products.

Comments and critiques welcome. :cool:
(There is a small tesselation prob on one of the shapes so be gentle.)

www.arketypedesign.com/Multi-PaintSpin.mov

gdogfunk
04-04-2007, 07:17 PM
That's pretty slick! What's the trick, if you don't mind sharing?

Ryan

arketype
04-04-2007, 07:53 PM
That's pretty slick! What's the trick, if you don't mind sharing?

Ryan

Sure I can share!
I am using the gradient shader set to "view edge" in combination with the anisotropic shader. Two colors come from the gradient shader, and one from the anisotropic.

If anyone tries this, or figures out another method, please post your results!

mike33
04-05-2007, 01:09 AM
Dave, any chance you can make your movies viewable to people who don't or can't get to QT 7.

Don't mean to be a pain in the butt... I just can't justify the expense to upgrade my home machine, Mac G4/400/OS 10.2.8, at the moment. The QT 7/iTunes download from Apple causes to many of hassles on my employers Dell machine config and is basically against company policy to install it.

I'm starting to feel like the Lowest Common Denominator.

Thanks,

Mike

A.C. Farley
04-05-2007, 01:22 AM
That is indeed very cool. Thanks very much!

3dData
04-05-2007, 02:31 AM
Very nice indeed!

arketype
04-05-2007, 03:05 AM
Dave, any chance you can make your movies viewable to people who don't or can't get to QT 7.

Don't mean to be a pain in the butt... I just can't justify the expense to upgrade my home machine, Mac G4/400/OS 10.2.8, at the moment. The QT 7/iTunes download from Apple causes to many of hassles on my employers Dell machine config and is basically against company policy to install it.

I'm starting to feel like the Lowest Common Denominator.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,
you are in good company ;)
Someone else needed something for an earlier version too.

Try this (compressed with Sorenson 2) it should work. I don't have QT 6 to test with.

www.arketypedesign.com/Multi-PaintSpin2.mov

Also, here is a JPEG Just in Case.

www.arketypedesign.com/Multi-PaintBig.jpg


If anyone experiments with this please post your experience/ results.

halfworld
04-05-2007, 09:59 AM
Yeahhhhh, very cool.

I use this technique when ever I get MForge nosebleeds - this happens to me if I ever need a material that isn't a preset :)

MForge is spectacular, but I swear that shader should have a 'sandbox mode' with only the simple controls, or at least a hierarchy of complexity (so the more advanced stuff is hidden and revealed with a click).

Sorry for flying OT there ;)
Good work Dave !
Ian

arketype
04-05-2007, 02:36 PM
Yeahhhhh, very cool.

I use this technique when ever I get MForge nosebleeds -
Ian

Thanks Ian. :)
I would love to see your technique with this if you care to share!

mike33
04-06-2007, 02:14 AM
Hi Dave,

Thanks for updating the the quicktime movie and telling us how you used the shaders.
I hope to do some very simple experiments with this over the weekend.

~Mike

arketype
04-06-2007, 04:11 AM
Mike,
Looking forward to seeing your tests!

mike33
04-25-2007, 03:05 PM
Hi Dave,

I did do some experimentation with the gradient and anistropic shaders but I don't quite understand how they work yet so I'm still experimenting/exploring/learning the material/shader ropes... oh and add in some lighting learning to that too.

...I did notice your post on the material library... the examples at the EIAS forum are quite clear, and the scale of the shading is good... I think that may be one of the issues I'm having with my experimentation... I think I have a disconnect with the shader settings and the scale of the spheres and block I'm using...

Would it be ok if I worked these issues in this thread or would it be better to start a new one? I do have a lot to learn on these issues and my time with EIAS is spread pretty thin so it could take a little while to work through...

Thanks,

~Mike

arketype
04-25-2007, 05:35 PM
Hi Mike,
I think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss this technique.

Please let me know if you have any specific questions on the setup for this effect, or post links to images if you have some work-in-progress samples we can talk about.

As you pointed out, the lighting is half of the material equation.
I have had very good results by placing a single radial light at about 60% intensity at about 45 degrees to one side and above an object (sphere) resting on a flat plane. Then turn on GI, and set primary rays to 50, secondary to 0, enable skylight On, at about 60%.
Then tweak it a bit to taste.


Dave

mike33
04-26-2007, 04:58 PM
Hi Dave,

I've been putting a little bit of time in on this in the early am, late pm and sometimes lunch at work. I'll emphasize "a little bit of time", I've spread my art dabbling time a little to thin among to many art ideas, concepts and projects.

I've posted an image of where I'm at. I've basically been exploring how the shaders work with light and trying to understand them. So I made a gradient model, anisotropic model and will make a third model to show them combined.

From what I've explored so far, both of these shaders seem directly dependent on the light source for how they appear. I was assuming they would become the overall material, but my images show otherwise. I'll be changing the model diffuse color to work better with the shaders.

I'm using Light rig, a radiall light, EIAS modeler 5, EIAS 5.5.3, I also downloaded the EIAS 6.6.x demo here at work for lunch time experiements. My Dell M70 laptop at work blows the socks of my G4/400 for render times...

Well on to other things... Thanks,

Mike

arketype
05-02-2007, 11:09 PM
Hey Mike-
Thanks for the e-mail.

I think you are headed in the right direction!

A couple of tips for moving forward...
Just select the Anisitropic shader you have on object two, copy and paste "on top" of the Gradient shader on object one (both in the diffuse channel) so both are active on the same object. You should try increasing the intensity of the anisotropic for a bit for more contrast.

Also, try some crazy color combinations. Maybe color the object yellow or green, keeping the blue gradient, and maybe an orage-ish anisotropic. Experiment and have fun!

Light Rig is great, but I really can't say enough about how great GI is in 6.5. If you get the cash together it is a worthy upgrade. (I am sure it's tough on "hobbyist" users.)

Post again when you have some more previews!

futagoza
01-26-2008, 02:37 PM
I think the idea of having M-forgeless materials is pretty cool. I tried for this thread to expirement with metal flake settings. For my image i used my metal material and set in the diffuse channel the marble shader, with 12 colors and changed the settings from Density, Frequency and Turbulence to 10. As reference for the colors i used the "3D Logo" from Paulīs gallery. Since i have no MForge i could not do a 1 to 1 comparison of the look.
It would be nice if someone could test MForge with Hansī cgsphere file, to see the difference, if this is not to much work.

What do you think, does my test material looks believeable, since i have no real Metal Flake reference...?

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r212/sacenator/MForgeless.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r212/sacenator/MForgeless.jpg%5B

3DArtZ
01-26-2008, 03:15 PM
I've been working on this too...

try putting the "normal" shader in the specularity channel and set the blend mode
to "Luminosity ". Make sure you have a good spread specular setting on, so that the
color will show up on the curving part of the model.

Funny how random people are working on things simultaneously...

3DArtZ
01-26-2008, 03:50 PM
Is this a generic scene file that I could use?
I would like to apply my material to the scene you are using.
let me know,
thanks
Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

futagoza
01-26-2008, 04:35 PM
Hi Mike,

thanks for your suggestions, i will try them out! The scene file is from Hans Groothuis. You can find it at www.cgsphere.com. I use it regularly because it gives very good lighting IMO. The only thing that i added is the reflection map.

Hope we can see more folks participating in a solution :-)

Regards
Stefan

3DArtZ
01-26-2008, 05:09 PM
Hey Stefan,

thanks for the link.
Um, where did you get the reflection map? or is it your own?

Mike

futagoza
01-26-2008, 06:11 PM
Itīs a demo file (watermarked at the bottom) from Sachform Technology.
You can find it here: http://www.sachform.de/download_DE.html
(the second image)

Regards
Stefan

3DArtZ
01-28-2008, 04:16 PM
This is what my 3 weeks of experimenting/trying to figure out my way through
materials has gotten me.
Basically, I have a diffuse color set(red) then I pumped up the size of specularity (by
decreasing the size and falloff number, go figure???)
By putting the normal shader in the specular, under the rust shader, holes turned off,
this is the result.
http://www.3dartz.com/Vids/MultiLayer.jpg

futagoza
01-28-2008, 06:08 PM
Fantastic work! Looks like an MForge material from the MForge gallery, at the EITG site. Cool!
Itīs also a good example that it pays off when experimenting hard enough. (well i must work harder on this, i think, even if iīm already retired young...;-))

Regards
Stefan

3DArtZ
01-28-2008, 08:01 PM
Hey Thanks Stefan!


I'm still playing with the materials and will post more if I can get anything better.

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

arketype
02-05-2008, 03:43 PM
Mike- you are really digging in to the material capabilities of EIAS "built-in" shaders.
There is a lot of power hidden in there when you begin combining shaders and maps the way you are doing.

Just a hint-
Try adding the Anisotropic shader to the diffuse channel on top of everything else in one of your tests.
In the shader interface turn on Isotropic layer "Blinn" with a large specular value (like 4 or even 8) and a small size value (maybe 40- note that smaller values make the specular bigger). Then give this a color. This will add even more "dimension" to the material.

Nice experiments.
Dave

3DArtZ
02-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Hi Dave,

thanks for the comments!
I will definatly give that a go.

While playing with the materials, I definately had a level of frustration as the documentation
is a little light as far as what one can do with the shaders.

I think the built in system has its limits, but I get the feeling the lack of documentation sort of creates an opportunity for these add on shaders, but the ability to create the effect is already in the shader system... its just that not many people understand the full capabilities of
the built in system.... I feel like I've only just scratched the surface of what there is to know...

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com (http://www.3dartz.com)

arketype
02-06-2008, 01:29 AM
Well, mforge definitely has some tricks that are just not possible with the basic system (It can create different layers that have independent reflections). But using that as inspiration you have certainly used the "basic" shaders to create some interesting materials and achieved an"mforge" like effect.

None of the shaders do much on their own. They often look "cliche" by themselves (like clouds, etc.) The trick is combining them together as you are doing to add a sense of depth to the material.

Also remember that you can use "blend modes" (just like photoshop) with shaders to blend multiple layers of noise together, etc. This is also a very powerful tool in combining different noise patterns and colors together.

Keep experimenting! Having a focused goal (like simulating mforge, or woodgrain, or whatever) really helps direct your efforts. Whenever I focus some time on things like this I learn a tremendous amount about EI and what it is capable of! And often there are some "happy mistakes" along the way.

Looking forward to seeing more...:)

Dave

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