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mackdadd
04-04-2007, 01:35 AM
Toxik Extension 2 provides new creative tools for film visual effects and enhances features introduced in Toxik 2007. New features include Retimer, which allows artists to change the speed of a clip, and Grain Management, which enables artist to add and remove grain characteristics from live and computer-generated footage.

Hi all,

wasn't sure where to post this, but this looked like the best place.

I am not an autodesk compositor, although I have used Combustion on some major motion pictures. Most of my skills are in After Effects, Fusion, and proprietary comping software. I've been curious about Toxik, though, since it first appeared, and have never had the chance to check it out or see it run.

Anyway, I read that quoted statement in a post in the CGNews section
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=481908

That quote shocks me. Isn't toxik $6,000? For $6,000, shouldn't it have been able to retime and match/remove grain from version 1? every other comping software has been able to do this for many years, including Autodesk's own Combustion, why is this a "new" feature?

I'm not condemning toxik, i'm just trying to understand. Like I said, I've never even seen it's interface. but if $6k doesn't get you all the features available in just about any other program, why would anyone use it? what are the advantages? Are there more examples of popular, commonplace tools that toxik doesn't have? I would love to hear from anyone using it how it compares to other packages.

dprgb
04-04-2007, 03:37 PM
Well if you're interested in learning it head over to fxphd and take their Toxik courses... probably the best $$$ you can spend on training on it right now. Plus you get access to a VPN version of Toxik so you can use it on your own. It's about more than just the tools available...

Ohh, and if you go the fxphd route, mention that I referred you... ;-)

beaker
04-04-2007, 09:55 PM
That quote shocks me. Isn't toxik $6,000? For $6,000, shouldn't it have been able to retime and match/remove grain from version 1? every other comping software has been able to do this for many years, including Autodesk's own Combustion, why is this a "new" feature?Heya Sean, whats up man! :)

The new retiming must be an optical flow based retimer like Foundry Kronos or Reel Smart Twixtor. It already had a basic retimer node called "Time Offset".

As for the grain, it has a noise tool currently that is used to simulate grain. I'm guessing the new one has all the film stocks and includes grain matching from the plate. Probably just a more robust grain tool. As for degrain, most compositors don't include one(or its really crappy). You usually have to buy a plugin degrainer like Foundry Furnace or Genarts Sapphire. Anyways Toxik already has a degrain tool, so maybe they are just brining attention to their improvements on it.

mackdadd
04-04-2007, 10:23 PM
dapeter2, thanks for the recommendation! :) Honestly, though, I probably won't ever learn it unless I have to for work. I'm prefectly content with the programs I already know.
It's about more than just the tools available...
Please expand on this. What makes it different from other programs? is it like combustion, flame, inferno, or something else?

deke - dude, whats up man!? drop me a PM or an email or something, where are you working? So you've played with Toxik a bit? I see what you're saying, maybe they're just upgrading all these tools, but other programs, even AE (which most professionals wrongly think is sub-par for serious compositing) has optical flow retiming and has had grain and degrain tools since at least 6.5, maybe 6 (can't remember). If I had paid $6K for toxik, I would've been slightly bothered by that.
What are the benefits of toxik, what would make someone say, "wow, i should be using THAT!"?

beaker
04-04-2007, 11:17 PM
deke - dude, whats up man!? drop me a PM or an email or something, where are you working? So you've played with Toxik a bit? I see what you're saying, maybe they're just upgrading all these tools, but other programs, even AE (which most professionals wrongly think is sub-par for serious compositing) has optical flow retiming and has had grain and degrain tools since at least 6.5, maybe 6 (can't remember). If I had paid $6K for toxik, I would've been slightly bothered by that.
What are the benefits of toxik, what would make someone say, "wow, i should be using THAT!"?AE licensed Kronos from The foundry and added it to v7.0. Before that it was plain old crappy frame blending.

To answer your question the big deal with Toxik

Pros:
1. its really fast
2, its node based
3. it is based around Python scripting so it is nice for TD's
4, the gui is extremely intuitive. Lots of really nice stuff like transparent node overlay when your working full screen with the viewer and also the Gate which is like maya's hotbox.

Cons:
1. Only sold in groups of 5, so there isn't an individual version
2. Requires too many other boxes: license server, database server and one other server I forget.
3. It has all these really advanced features as you mentioned Sean, there are some basic features that it is still missing. 1.0 was not production ready but as of v.2007.2 it is pretty much there.

beaker
04-04-2007, 11:19 PM
Oh Sean, also I agree with dapeter2, you should check out fxphd. It is really cool and has much more then just Toxik training. There is Shake, advanced AE, Combustion, Maya, Flame, Silhouette, Lustre, Photoshop, etc... and in the future Nuke and Digital Fusion. The big deal is it is all VFX training, not generic software training that all the other places and videos out there offer.

mackdadd
04-05-2007, 12:33 AM
AE licensed Kronos from The foundry and added it to v7.0. Before that it was plain old crappy frame blending.

yeah, i meant the graining stuff was introduced in 6 or 6.5. :D 6.5, i think.
the gui is extremely intuitive

is it? cause i hate combustion's. is it different from that?

those first two cons suck.:)

and i'm checking out fxphd now. they do have some cool classes, but as for learning toxik, i probably won't, especially if i'd have to have 5 copies to use it at home! But it does look like they have some cool classes, and i may look into some of them, probably more on the 3d end.

beaker
04-05-2007, 12:58 AM
is it? cause i hate combustion's. is it different from that?Yea, it's different then combustion.

http://download.autodesk.com/us/interactiveoverviews/toxik/index.html
There isn't a skip for the stupid intro but after you get past that click on "Library" and then the 5th one down "The Toxik Touch User Interface".

mackdadd
04-05-2007, 02:10 AM
hmm, interesting, its much more like 3d.

the lady doing the talking is almost unbearable!!! hahahahaha!

beaker
04-05-2007, 02:25 AM
Yea, that voice over blows.

lazzhar
04-05-2007, 07:42 AM
Yea, it's different then combustion.

http://download.autodesk.com/us/interactiveoverviews/toxik/index.html
There isn't a skip for the stupid intro but after you get past that click on "Library" and then the 5th one down "The Toxik Touch User Interface".

Awesome thanks for the link I wanted to see Toxik for a while now. Looks great so far.

dprgb
04-06-2007, 03:24 PM
1. Only sold in groups of 5, so there isn't an individual version
2. Requires too many other boxes: license server, database server and one other server I forget.


You can buy Toxik as an individual program and run it like the FXPHD VPN version with the Oracle db running on your own workstation:

http://www.dv.com/news/news_item.php?category=News+Archive&articleId=193500379

$6500. Plus, subscription is not mandatory... although I'd wonder why you wouldn't want to be on subscription.

Kyo007
04-06-2007, 08:43 PM
Someone use toxik here ??

beaker
04-06-2007, 08:55 PM
Someone use toxik here ??yes, I do.

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