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Tylak
03-08-2003, 12:33 AM
I'm making a new character for a class on character rigging. I've been working on him pretty steady now and he's around 2000 polys (actually ... 2098). I finally got around to texturing him last night and I've been enjoying it a lot. I'm trying to use rust in the areas where his flesh meets his metal parts.

Anyways, I haven't really shown him to anyone yet and I need to get some feedback. I tend to make very obvious mistakes when I'm the only person who looks at my work. So crit away peoples!~

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar01.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar02.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar03.jpg

Sorceror Bob
03-08-2003, 12:12 PM
Looking pretty cool so far, It's a little like something I'm working on now of the same name :)

Crits -
The biggest problem with this character is the proportions, even when making alien, or monster characters, it is still good to take into account proper proportions. The model will look like there's something wrong with it otherwise.

Heres a link to a tonne of body reference images, there are quite a few proportion sheets in there as well.
http://www.fineart.sk/body1.htm
The main problem areas are the legs and arms, the legs are very short in relation to the rest of your character. The arms, the upper arm appears to be too short compared to the forearm.

Tylak
03-08-2003, 02:38 PM
I made him a little disproportionate on purpose, b/c I wanted him to have a large upper body with a huge reach. But that idea wont do me any good if it makes him look stupid.....

maybe if I post a picture of him in his ideal pose, it might make his porportions make a little more sense.

Sokowa
03-08-2003, 04:13 PM
How about a wireframe :)

Hellwolve
03-08-2003, 08:25 PM
Looks good!

The only crit I have is that the texture needs sharpening IMHO.

Tylak
03-09-2003, 06:39 AM
Thanks for the crits, they have been helpful. I made the proportions a little more normal and it helped a lot. Take a look at the new batch of pics.

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar201.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar202.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar203.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar204.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar205.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar206.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awar207.jpg

This will give you guys a better overall look at the model. I was really happy with the textures and I hope you can see them more clearly now.

The poly count has gone up a little bit due to the addition of eyeballs and cords in the back of the model. I don't know for sure but I think the total count is near 2350 or so.

More feedback please:wip:

Sorceror Bob
03-09-2003, 09:30 AM
It's looking much better, but I still think there are some fairly major proportional issues in there.

His torso needs to be much larger, think of the organs, there needs to be enough room for them.

He still doesn't have much in the way of upper arms.. I think the length of the arms is fine, but maybe you could move the elbow joint further down the arm,

I suggest, if you're going for a large upper body + huge reach, that you copy a gorilla.. I find when making alien type characters, it can help to borrow from animals. It will also give you a much stronger idea of how your character will move.
- found from google.com image search
http://tubes.ominix.com/art/a/animals/brown-gorilla-standing-stare.png


Hope this helps

Beroc-LOD
03-09-2003, 07:11 PM
Hi, nice lookin thus far, I do agree on the crits for the elbow, it does look fairly out of place.

My crit comes on the Skinning/Mapping side.

first the Mapping.

A simple rule of thumb(which I preach religously to the guys on my site): When you map something, objects not seen much, are not that important, objects which you want to have detailed (as long as they are seen) require more space.... In your case, almost all of the model is seen at one point, but things like the head and chest look like they could use more space. For instance, the head, could have been mapped in half. Meaning, that only half the skin for the head would be showing, the other half would simply copy the first. That, would allow you to increase the head on the map almost twice the size, allowing for alot more detail in the skin. This also will be less work to create a good skin in the end.

Where parts like the bottom of the shoe are not as visible, and do not require that much detail.

The skinning.

OK, you pulled alot of textures and put them where they needed to go, then used the dodge and burn tools to give some highlight. Now this isn't perfect, you did acheive a "Pig Skin" look across most of it. Of course this may be attractive in his race. (not in mine...LOL) What I suggest is using this initial texture as a base to create more detail on the model.

Observe:
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/warriorhead.gif

I redid a section of your initial skin, using what you had as a base. I accentuated some of the core features of what you had originally done, added detail to the "Pig Skin" and intensly increased the contrast. All this is done by using the dodge, burn and smudge tools.

Where you had a soft skin effect, I replaced with detail. The original skin is nice, but becomes a bit boring after a while. Creating these details converts the boring sections to reality. In reality, what has this guy been through... well for startes his skin has rotted away from the metal plates on his head, that can't be good. And he has a pin in his temple...

So, I decided to make him have some problems with the "hardware", also I didnt want him to look all healthy, so I warped out his skin a bit, to show age and/or abuse. All purely artistic choices though. Just ask yourself, what has my character been through.

Lastly, I decided to dump sections of the "Pig Skin" as the repeatetive texture was becoming a nightmare. During the creative process, I used the original skin as a go-by, so that the addon textures wouldnt look out of place.... areas like teh upper lip, and nose, I didnt see as much reason to put the texture in, nor details. So, I opted to get rid of the initial texture using a smudge tool. And, I think it gives a little more character for him not to have texture in that area, kinda like he then, in the end, isn't so tough after all....

Well, hope this doesnt confuse you near as much as it does me.

Here are some tutorials on skinning for quake/Unreal:

http://www.n-en.com/
http://www.bobotheseal.com/
http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/632

AgentX
03-09-2003, 08:26 PM
CCD? Chris Marafi?

Tylak
03-09-2003, 09:55 PM
Yes Agent X, its me again, I'm in Chris' class this month. Above is the model that I'm using. I like the second half of the class a lot more.

Thanks for the crit Beroc-LOD, that is very good advice and I like what you've done with the texture. I'll try to apply it in the future.

I do take issue with one thing though. You said:

the head, could have been mapped in half. Meaning, that only half the skin for the head would be showing, the other half would simply copy the first.

But I find that whenever you mirror faces and chests, it tends to look generic. I only do that for models of less importance (background... ect.).

I know I didn't use my non symetrical face texture to its fullest, but in the close up shots you can tell that the face is some what dynamic b/c it's not mirrored.

What do you think about that?

Thanks again for the great advice and links. I'm going to try to get my alien rigged and animated so that I can show you guys how I imagine him really living and doing things. :buttrock:

DaKrunch
03-10-2003, 04:07 PM
Beroc: you were very kind to spend your time in showing such a detailed way your critics!
the forum is enriched by people like you! :applause:

Tylac: cool piece of game art. Look like you'll have to add some detail as the other said. It's the same problem i had with my Striking Scorpion (see http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40002 )
also. .. how will you rig the tubes on his back? which program are you using?

keep it up! :bounce:

Beroc-LOD
03-10-2003, 04:59 PM
Da Krunch: Way back in the day, I used to paint Warhammer 40k Mins.... out of everything I painted, Tyranids, Space Marines, Chaos and Eldar... The Eldar were by far the hardest to do... with a billion jewels each, getting that kind of detail on that kind of model was a bit excessive... To be honest, I don't envy you doing one.

As far as your praise... yeah, kinda, I am still learning all this, so it is kinda an excercise for me as well. So since I decided to do it, I wanted to do it right, and give source tutorials along with it.

Tylak:
I understand what you are saying about having a model which looks unique, and not generic. Though I think with enough detail, that wouldnt be much of an issue. After all, you wont really be able to look at these models that close unless you are making some feature clip with it. Another cool method is to only do the polygons that would have differences on them... like if one side of his face had a scar, the other didnt, only go so far as the scar. You have done subtle differences on this particular model, which kinda made me wonder if it could have been done a different way. But, it is your model, and I am sure that you will come shining through.

Another thing I found out, and am finding out as I get further into skinning, "THIS STUFF TAKES FOREVER". don't take shortcuts as people will see them.... and the sad thing is, they will only focus on them..... (Why do people do that?)

Either way, can't wait to see the finished model.

lordmachuca
03-10-2003, 07:16 PM
humm, how critical was you poly buget. with 2000 polys you should get more detail than whats you have
theres way to many polys in the boots for instance.
did you have a specific texture size that you needed to use?
something else to think about when you mapping you uvs is that you want to take up as much space as you can. see alot of black areas in your map

Jevin
03-10-2003, 08:19 PM
Well, first off, I agree with the idea that you can get away with a lot less polys. I'm guessing you can cut out at least a couple hundred, if not more.

Secondly, I understand what kind of look you're going for the alien, and I suggest you give him bigger, broader shoulders. That will make his torso look larger, more intimidating, and give him a long reach without making the arms any longer than they allready are. Also, such a creature, with a massive upper body and smaller legs, would most likely not stand straight up much, rather he would be in a crouching position, and use his arms to help propell him (Like the previously mentioned Gorilla)

It's good, but it is certaintly within your power to improve it greatly.

Tylak
03-11-2003, 12:16 AM
You're right, I can down the poly count quite a bit. I must admit that I was kind of in a rush during the initial contruction (school deadline). But I have plenty of time now to clean it up and I plan on doing exactly that.

As for the UV layout, I'm afraid my newb is showing.... :p I've only done a few of these before. But I'm getting better and you guys are helping a lot. I'll try to use my real estate better.

So I'm making a list now of what I'm going to try and fix tonight:

- delete unnecessary faces
- adjust body proportions (I agree with broader shoulders)
- add an entirely new level of detail to the skin

Other things : He will have a hunchback type of pose when he's finished. I just thought he would be easier to model/skin/rig in the normal pose (is that correct?).

I don't have a specific texture limit on this model and I'm building the skin in 1024x1024 and shrinking (512x512) it for application, do you think I would be better off going for the total 1024?

Okay, that's all for now, please tell me what you think b/c I'll be checking this thread while I'm working tonight.

THANKS! :applause:

lordmachuca
03-11-2003, 03:46 AM
yeah go with 1024 texture size if your not limited you can get way more detail but, 512 is enough for a model with a poly count of 2000 i think.

Hellwolve
03-11-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Tylak
<SNIP>I don't have a specific texture limit on this model and I'm building the skin in 1024x1024 and shrinking (512x512) it for application, do you think I would be better off going for the total 1024?

Okay, that's all for now, please tell me what you think b/c I'll be checking this thread while I'm working tonight.

THANKS! :applause:

My two cents:

It depends on the game. Nowadays, games like UT2003 can handle 1024X1024, but if it's for an older game, it's IMHO better to go for the 512X512.




(Asuming that you are going to put him in a game, since this is the game art section an' all....)

Tylak
03-14-2003, 09:29 AM
Ok! I'm finally getting around to updating again. I've been busy lately and have been using "Alien Warrior" mostly for a setup/rigging class. But I have taken some time to work on his textures and I've made some adjustments to his geometry. (Shouders are broader, teeth added).

:buttrock:

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awscene01.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awscene02.jpg

http://www.stfunoob.com/~inrift/models/awscene03.jpg

I took these shots in an environment that I made for a warhammer40k project. I've also given the warrior a weapon. The total poly count (alien+gun) not counting the environment is 2271 right now. Also note that his cyborg tubes have been removed.

Once I get the rig setup correctly (its still buggy) I'll put together some video clips of him and maybe some of his friends.

Cool huh? :bounce:

Beroc-LOD
03-17-2003, 01:47 AM
Looking better.... and I hate to say this.... MORE... MORE DETAIL....

What game is he for anyways???

Hellwolve
03-20-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Beroc-LOD
Looking better.... and I hate to say this.... MORE... MORE DETAIL....

What game is he for anyways???

Now that's a good question. Yeah, what game is it for?

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