Help with 2D animation, please...

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

If all you're looking for is something to composite your images into an animation than any compositing package will do. Heck, anything that renders animations and accepts sequenced images will do (like Quicktime Pro). I know there's an open source compositing package out there, do a search for "open source compositing" or something.

[srv]

Hey,
check this out
tapptoons linetester (http://www.tappsplace.freeserve.co.uk/newanimationsoftware.htm)

hope this helps

[Goatfuzz]

Thanks for the help. I'll check out some compositing software... :)

[NielsKM]

Good 2D animation program?

www.plasticanimationpaper.dk (http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk)

It's called Plastic Animation Paper.

A brand new Shareware edition just released yesterday.

Enjoy! :)

[Goatfuzz]

:rolleyes: :eek: :surprised

I was kinda hoping for a free program, but it looks fairly cheap. Thanks for the find! :D

[NielsKM]

The small edition IS free!!

It's only if you really like it and use it, you are asked to pay 30 euro (30 dollars) for it. That's very cheap! And free is even more cheap!!!

It works perfectly - it's NOT a demo!

[LucentDreams]

Pap is the best your goping to get for free. I mean the software I used for my film is around 15000 USD, most serious classical animation programs are over 1000. PAP is really original and impressive. I only discovered it last week myself, funny it should now pop up here. Definitely going to try it out, I recommend you do too.

It looks better than toonboom and flash are, definitely more of a cassical animation program than those applications are.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

I'm very impressed with PAP. Perhaps my main problem with 2D animation is that I'm very spoiled by computers. Not being able to see your animation as it's progressing and being swamped in hundreds of pieces of paper drive me nuts. But just playing around with PAP it was quick and FUN. Perhaps thanks to this little app I can make 2D a more regular part of my work.

[LucentDreams]

Not being able to see your animation progress. Heck thing I love about classical animatino is how quick and easy I can see it progress compared to 3D, overall both productions systems are pretty equal in length, but when drawing I can flip five drawings at once while doingmy rough, and have a line est for something like a line test in 4 minutes, without any time spent on rigging or anything like that either. I don't include rendering in that as Cleanup and DIP add up to the time spent doing 3D rendering, often even longer.

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Well flipping can let you see how your frames animate in relation to each other, but you can never know exactly what it looks like until it's playing at the proper framerate.

Modeling and rigging is something you only have to do once for a character. Once you get past that you're free to animate, see your results as they'll actually be animated while you work and still be able to alter your animation without destroying previous work.

I can see your point though.

[Goatfuzz]

So 'PAP' stands for 'Plastic Animation Paper' right? :curious:

[LucentDreams]

yes

[telesto]

I'm just gonna hijack this thread for a while, since a have a similar question :)

I'm also interested in 2D animation. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an animator for Disney. Now the recent animatrix short films have really gotten me excited.

Does anyone know which softwares or techniques are commonly used in the business to make 2D film? or any software good in this deparment for that matter. info? links?

[Nicool]

I know a free 2d animation software. You need :

-YourBrain.lib
-eyes.exe
-pen.dll
-And another plugin : 1001sheet.dlo

:scream:

[LucentDreams]

A decent source actually would be Februaries copy of DIGIT magazine, thecover story was a review of many classical animation packages.

Anyways heres my list of links and cooments on how I see the packages I know of.

www.animo.com Cambridge Animation Systems package, one of the top in the industry very widely used. Module based this one has the abilities to work with 3D packages like maya and also output swf files. Its fully capable of feature quality production.

www.toonboom.com This is the package I am most familiar with, being a moderator for their websoftware toonboom studio, and using USanimation for my film and such. This ones a little different than most other packages since the anmation is Purely vector, meaning everything you scan in will be converted to vector, but it also supports bringing in raster images for backgrounds andoverlays, that scanning will have to be done in a program like photoshop. Module based as well, with the best out of swf out of the highend packages because of its vector drawings, the sizes are much smaller and equal to the highqualityoutput except for things like tone a blur which cannot be done in flash. This is definitely one of the top and has been used on a few features as well.

www.mediapegs.com THey now have a lighter version I would checkout called ipegs, seems to do a lot for a lot less, though only outputting to flash. the highend package is widely used in Europe excluding the UK. This one is more pixelbased like CAS, but both have the ability to work in vector aswel though not as wel refined in that area as USanimation and requires a seperate module for that ability. as mentioned this one is also module based.

www.softimage.com Thats right Avid's softimage is even in the market, not talking about XSI, but rather Toonz which I might add is actually liscnced by softimage not directly developed by them but rather a company called Digital Video. Toonz is there classical animatin package, very flexible and module based like the other highend packages, one advantage is the amazing support with softimage 3D packages for 3D integration. If you want to do things like treasure planet this and XSI would make a lethal combo. Another special feature is the availability of a 2D particle generator module, this one seems to be a great one to checkout.

www.retas.com If your going to work in anime whether in Japan or Korea, or almost any carton on Fox's Kids WB, then this is the package, very widely used over seas in japan, this one has quickly become known as the anime painter. Module based as well, this is capable of feature quality as can be seen in Princess mononoke which used this as its main package, Studio Ghible has since changed to Toonz and XSI because of their increasing 3D integration, but Retas also has some nice 3D compatibility with Studio max, using camera information and such. This one is 100% pixel, no vectors whatsoever, meaning you must work at the highest resolutions you know you will need.

www.animationstand.com This ones well over 13 years old now and comes in two version basically for the tenth of the price of their best package, you lose the feature resolutions, but still capable of TV resolutions. This is one of the more midend packages, used a bit in TV and one of the few thats all in one rather than seperate modules. I don't know a lot of the overall features for this one like whether its vector or pixel.

www.cratersoftware.com CTP is growing popular nowadays, only capable of HDTV output this midend package is still module based a plus in my books this one supports the most formats that I know of, and can output flash and is pixelbased.

www.digicel.com This one has many different level packages available, capaple of telivision output and on the higher packages flash output as well. Only the top package include painting and colour capabilities, but it isn't widely used for that. The main strength of this one is simple clean and easy to edit, which is why this one is probably the most used linetesting package out there, the line test version are all quite cheap and basically change in how many layers they support. Pixel based and capable of using either scanner or camera to capture all in one app, you can line test in mere second and control your lipsyncing right in the app. Also this one has a storyboard feature optimised for better handling of filming animatics of your storyboard. While many of the higend have some type of linetesting module, this one is flast clean and simple, the last two releases have ben quite stable as well, definitely a small cheapone to get for linetesting you won't be sorry. Its production features are somewhat of a joke though.



FLASH PRODUCTION

Well flash is growing ever popular, and now we are even seeing cartoons animated for telivision in macromedias flash software. Here are a few programs aimed more for web, though a few like Flash itself, can actually be used for telivision quality production, but while being vector makes the resolution independent, I wopuld never try these on feature films YET.

www.macromedia.com Flash is very well known as are its featurs so no in depth here, probably the most flexible all round, thuogh as an animator, its the most disorganised as its designed for interactive content with scripting, its acutally not designed for classical animation, thats just a bonus ability.

www.toonboom.com toonboom studio V2 is toonbooms lowend web software. not to be confused with USanimation they share very litle in comon outside of the 3D camera which is definitely toonboom studio's advantage in the market, having a rewal 3D camera built in, multiplane compex camera shots are easily done for web animations. Its drawing tools are quite nice, and the ap was definitely developed along with some classical animators, having lighttable options, an actualy animation disc you can rotate in the application so your not trying to turn that large tablet around. This has no support for scripting and use of symbols is very different and somewhat clunky, most toonboom studio users do not use this alone but along with Flash.

www.lostmarble.com MOHO is gaining fast popularity, having some really uniques features such a a particle generator and get this, IK bone animation system for 2D vector images. Now thats original. THis is not aimed at classical animators but more for those 3D guys wanting to do 2D flash IMO. This one isn't really my cup of tea, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

http://www.creaturehouse.com/lcels.htm Creature house has one of the simplest and coolest vector illustration programs, I like it more than Illustrator myself, though its not designed for also doing page layouts and such. NOw they are working on Living Cels, not available yet, but taking advantage of their awesome vector tools and stroke effcts and such, this is one tool to keep an eye one. Already Expresssion 3 has swf output and some basic scripting abilities for buttons and such. Hopefully they release their own output format for animation as well that takes advantage of their strokes and realtime reflection map embossing. Both packages I recommend you keep an eye out for. Its still tryingto get the word out there, but IMO these guys are making something big and revolutionary.


DRAWING ANIMATION

Well in some apps you can actualy draw, though a serious animtor still uses his paper and pencils then scans in,now it seems one company is trying to change that. http://plasticanimationpaper.dk/ has designed a software, NOT for painting, it has no paint features whatsoever, this is strictly designed for DRAWING animatin and CLEANING it up. not vector, the program is failry simple to use, works strictly with a tablet unless you get there freeware which comes with both a tablet version and a mouse version, you cannot use both mouse and tablet in one version though. must be in one or the other. it has some cool features, I'l watch its progress, but for now, I"m sticking to pencil and paper

I'm sure there are a few other packages to check out.

Hope this informatin helps you guys out. If you want to know more about other classical animation tools like Discs, Desks, Paper pencils pegbars all that feel free to ask, I could try to make a list of those as well.

[steveblake]

Well, with all this talk about PAP - I took it home and played around with for a few hours last night, and to be honest I came away very impressed. I think it's really neat, and probably as close to a real lightbox as you could really come (within the limitations of a PC with a wacom).

So, does anyone know what features are unlocked when you register? I know that sound support is added, but I'm interested in the Zoom & Blue pencil features for example..

Perhaps these are reserved for the 'professional' versions...
Anyone know? Niels??

thanks!

ps- great breakdown of what's on offer Kai. Good stuff!

[LucentDreams]

welll red pencil for layout is there, haven't founf the blue pencil myself, sounds is not in the shareware, and as far as I know thats it, perhpas resolutions :/

[NielsKM]

Hi Steveblake and Kaiskai!

When you register the shareware version of PAP the register screen in the beginning will go away and you will get the abillity to import - and playback sound to your animation.

The blue pen is available in the "PAP:Broadcast" edition - as well as cutouts (very easy copy/paste-like function for small parts of drawings, cycles or complete animation), scaling/rotation, effective timing functionallity and much more.

The biggest edition (PAP:Film) has the same as PAP:Broadcast, but has higher resolutions.

Feel free to ask me more! I know PAP! ;)

[steveblake]

Feel free to ask me more! I know PAP!

Thanks Guys.

This great product has rekindled my enthusiasm for 2D - big time ! ! !

Just a quicky (for the moment). What's the best method for cleanups with the shareware version?

Without the blue pencil. I'm thinking that maybe saving out the frames and then loading them back in as a sequence in the background, for tracing over.

Is that possible??

Um, also... on a technical note. I seem to have had no luck running shareware PAP at work. I think the problem is that we have widescreen monitors, at home my tiny monitor seems to 'flick' over to PAPs resolution and back. At work I just get an error... Any thoughts?

Many thanks!

[telesto]

whoa! thanks Kaiskai!

that sure was a detailed post, and very helpful. thanks a lot. :applause:

Hope this informatin helps you guys out. If you want to know more about other classical animation tools like Discs, Desks, Paper pencils pegbars all that feel free to ask, I could try to make a list of those as well.

that would be very nice. since I have no experience in 2d animation, only 3d.

[LucentDreams]

Cleaining is sort of my issue as well, I find tablets alone are not steady enough to get a good line quality, when I clean with a pencil I typically use a 0.3mm mechanical or a really sharp 2b and feather the strokes to get thick and thin. No way I can really get that kind of control with a tablet.

As for not having the blue pencil you could use the layout pencil adn draw over that. as well if you keep drawing your lines slowly fade I noticed. I drew a sketch of Silver from Treasure planet, and noticed that lines I had really built up were light grey as I was working on another area. neat feature IMO I see a lto fo potential, but I see a lot of problems. Just curious if they have considered the risk in their marking menu system which could land them asuit from Alias wavefront. The limted resolution is kind of annoying and as you mentioned doesn't work on widescreen, also causes colour and resolution problems on the second monitor of a dual display system. would be cool if you could draw like its currently set up, and then clean over top in a vector line. The current system cause me to be looser and rougher than I am in flahs and Toonboom, but for cleanup and output, vector has distinct advantages, as well it could be exported to any vector program like flash for easier painting frame by frame than say photoshop.

Great program in the works and glad to see it being developed by Danes :) perhaps I wil finally get some approval from my father when he sees that a piece of software I'm using is danish. Do you know any classical stuidos in Denmark hiring classical animators. I'd still love to go visit, though my family didn't teach me very much danish.

[NielsKM]

Originally posted by steveblake
Without the blue pencil. I'm thinking that maybe saving out the frames and then loading them back in as a sequence in the background, for tracing over.

Is that possible??


In the Shareware version you can not load other formats than PAP animation. In the commercial editions of PAP you have plenty of ways to do the cleaning.

But if you want to stick with the Shareware edition, you could use the lighttable or layout features to trace rough drawings from one frame to another - doing the cleanup. I.e. add blank frames between all the rough ones and do the cleanup on the blanks using the lighttable. Then delete the rough frames and you're done.



Um, also... on a technical note. I seem to have had no luck running shareware PAP at work. I think the problem is that we have widescreen monitors, at home my tiny monitor seems to 'flick' over to PAPs resolution and back. At work I just get an error... Any thoughts?


Did you check if your graphics card is able to run 800x600 in 8 bit mode? Sometimes it's a matter of screen drivers.

Anyway, I will check if there's a problem with PAP running on a widescreen - and get back to you with an answer...

[LucentDreams]

Curious as to why they chose such low settings, I know that many newer cards actually perform slower at extremely low settings compared to medium settings

[NielsKM]

Originally posted by Kaiskai
Curious as to why they chose such low settings, I know that many newer cards actually perform slower at extremely low settings compared to medium settings

You are maybe right - I don't know about the differences in specific graphics cards.

Because PAP has been around (in Denmark) for many years, it was an early decision we (I'm the producer of PAP) made to make sure everything would run very quickly and smoothly on those old computers. Today the "standard" computer is much faster and we could have done things differently, by pushing the modern computer more.

We will though - in the next major release (4.0)!
:bounce:

[steveblake]

Even as it is now, PAP is great. A simple idea executed very well indeed. The fact that there is a Shareware version at all is a great bonus.

I think that I'll be using it quite a bit at home, so will probebely register for the shareware version very soon...

..and If I could get it working here at work, I'd be fiddling around with it in my lunchtimes.

Good stuff!

[NielsKM]

Originally posted by steveblake
[B]Even as it is now, PAP is great. A simple idea executed very well indeed. The fact that there is a Shareware version at all is a great bonus.

I think that I'll be using it quite a bit at home, so will probebely register for the shareware version very soon...



Thank you very much! :)


I asked our programmer and PAP should work fine on widescreens. It must be at matter of the driver. Did you check if it allows 800x600x8?

[steveblake]

Did you check if it allows 800x600x8?

Hey

Actually yes i did and... no it doesn't. Sadly.

Only works with 32bit True Colour, looking at my Display properties, it's a ATI Fire GL2 card. Has anyone had any success with these?

If it did work, It'd good if I didn't have to setup my screen each time too, since it's a bind having to realign my icons around the desktop each time... Still, that's just me..

(Thanks for your thoughts on this. I've tried to pursuade our resident 2D animatorizer to have a go at this unfortunately he's too busy and probebely benefit from me giving him a demo.)

:)

[LucentDreams]

being ATI don't you have an option to remember icon placement, using a single monitor with ati 9000 I have no problems, except the colours on the second screen, but now knowing thta it performs at 8 bit, thats all thats wrong with the colours on the second screen.

[steveblake]

being ATI don't you have an option to remember icon placement, using a single monitor with ati 9000 I have no problems

icon placement? Don't think so. Right-clicking on the desktop the only relevant options I get are to lock, arrange and line them up...

anyway don't think this card supports 8bit. But maybe I'm wrong...

[bentllama]

this thread has been a great read. thanks for contributing to it guys...

:beer:

[steveblake]

So um. Anyone managed to get PAP working with a ATI Fire GL2 card??

[NielsKM]

Hi Steveblake!

This is what I got from our programmer... :)
---
According to these specs, this graphics card only works in 24bit modes:
http://www.ntsi.com/3d_graphics_cards/Video_Cards/FireGL2_specs.htm

This discussion suggests hope, but I wouldn't count on it:
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=pw_monitor&message.id=350

Thus, running PAP in its current form will not be possible, but we are considering developing a windowed version of PAP, which you will be able to run.
---

I'm sorry steveblake, but please keep an eye on http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk for any news on the windowed version! Thanks.

[steveblake]

Hey, I appreciate the help anyway!

I hope PAP does develope into a windowed app. From what I remember reading on your site, it seems you're thinking of implementing some new features too, so that's got to be worth the wait!

By the way, out of interest, is PAP being used in many 2D animation studios??

Thanks for listening...

[NielsKM]

Yes.

Denmark is a great animation country, with great schools and lots of studios and animators. Most of them know PAP very well and most of the studios have licenses. Many of the most "digitally involved" studios are using PAP as their only way of animating 2D. :) Also danish gamecompanies are using PAP extensively.

We only released PAP for the world wide audience a couple of weeks ago, so we are very excited about the hype and nice comments we recieved about it already!

[NielsKM]

Hey! Steveblake and others!


We have just uploaded a beta of PAP which runs in 24 or 32 bit screen mode!

So people who had problems with the 8 bit mode, please visit our forum for more info!! http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/forum

Thanks!

[LucentDreams]

oh man now you guys rock :) By the way have you seen Aliwas Wavefront's new app sketchbook. THey don't have the animation abilities, but the app is almsot the exact same in drawing, but they have multiple brushes and colours.

[steveblake]

Brilliant! Downloading now...

I'll post some feedback to the forum and possibly here, for those that are interested.

NielsKM, thanks to you (and the programing team)

[ilasolomon]

could we find a 2d animation app like old autodesk animator pro, animator studio or deluxe paint these days? I don't like the way painter or paint shop pro's animation shop handle things. I prefer a software just like the animator studio or deluxe paint but in XP!

[steveblake]

Have you tried PAP ila_solomon ?? It's very good indeed.

Still, I have tried Pro Motion once or twice, that seems a bit more more like Dpaint. Just didn't click with me tho..

:)

[ilasolomon]

oh, yes, I was impressed, that's a very cool app (reminds me old good days of amiga!)
but, it's still a powerfull lightbox, no feature for inking/painting & motion graphics (just like DPaint, for example)
a question: are all PAP versions the resulotion dependent?

[steveblake]

don't honestly know about it, but I'm guessing that all the versions of PAP are currently bitmap based.

And yeah, did you try ProMoton?? I think it does inking etc...

It's just that PAP is so, intuitaive and easy to use that even if it was just used to rough stuff out, it stands head and shoulders above any 2d software I've seen. (But again, that's just me)

As for feedback on the current PAP: beta:

the only quibble I have so far is in the save animation screen, (ie file management bit), the lower text and buttons are off the screen, so not at all readable...

But everything else so far seems to work very well. And it's a joy to be able to dabble at work during my lunchhours...

[Mr_Lunchbox]

http://www.eshelps.com/web/personal/wetdogx2/reactive.gif

This is an animation I did with Photoshop and JASC. At this point, it'd just be a buttload easier to use flash.

Far from perfect, but I still think it's cool as hell. Feedback, anyone?

[Hugh]

Nice!

The one bit that bugs me slightly is that it's not obvious that he's flicked his head at the wall. It just seems to shoot off his hand - maybe have more of a follow-through from the arm so that you can see what pushed it....

[Mr_Lunchbox]

Thanks.

I tried to fix that, but it was either adding bad-looking hands, or just bending the arm in a way that just looked unnatural (heh... me complaining about making this look natural...). But, I'm satisfied, considering I did that on a Saturday morning before I showered while I had a cold. Oh yeah - 3 hours. So more time than effort went into it. But... whatever. :bounce:

[toonshady]

Hi everyone. My first time in this part of the forum. I tried PAP. Need some more time to investigate. But I was wondering if anyone heard or try Newtek's Aura. They advertise it as a TVpaint solution. I discover this one as I am a Lightwave3d user (also the by the same company). It has photoshop like painting feature, and has a timeline. So you can draw and paint. It also has some compositing features too. The lastest v2.5b can play back with more controls and the lighttable has opacity adjustments. I like to own this one someday. I feel very comfortable with it.

Here's a link to read up on if anyone interested.

http://www.newtek.com/products/videotoaster/profiles/TerrenceWalker/

[caulfield]

If you want to be an animator, learn to draw. Do life drawing, play with sculpey, draw story boards, and make animatics.

And if you've been doing all this, get a wacom, do some simple stuff in photoshop, and use ACDC to view it as a slide show.

Or you could forget all this and get US Animation, which is what Disney uses, but you'll end up with nothing.

[LucentDreams]

you seem to be posting as if many of us aren't animators:) And BTW are you refering to disney feature or individual disney setelite studios like disney australia. Because for feature they use CAPS, their own proprietary system. Each setelite studio uses whatever theypruchase so to say they use USanimation isn't entirely true, some of themdo, disney france did not.

[Isopod]

Well for 2d I just draw them on paper, scan color in photoshop, add alpha channels on each frame and them import them to After Effects. I just add 3d elements on top of them or behind.

I'm about to take an animation class with David Chung, Peter Chung's brother (Aeon Flux). I'm kinda intrigued how different their styles are.


cheers,

--Albert

[ilasolomon]

I'm about to take an animation class with David Chung, Peter Chung's brother
you lucky! :) ... David came here a few months ago to Tehran's Animation Festival & I missed meeting him. :(

[leif3d]

"ToonBoom Studio" works perfect for me....and it's free....it only adds a watermark in the bottom right hand of the movie...and it's very easy to use....works entirely on vectors...but doesn't feel like illustrator...try it out.....

[ilasolomon]

www.toonboomstudio.com ?

[LucentDreams]

Originally posted by leif3d
"ToonBoom Studio" works perfect for me....and it's free....it only adds a watermark in the bottom right hand of the movie...and it's very easy to use....works entirely on vectors...but doesn't feel like illustrator...try it out.....

Uhm Free? its not free, there is a demo version which has a little water mark, but thats limited to 30 days.

[caulfield]

Well, Disney in Sydney uses USAnimation, CAPS, AVID and even a bit of combustion if I'm not too mistaken...I used to work there :)

But my point was that you're only going to learn animation while you're actually doing it...and the easier the pipeline you're using, the more you'll do, and the more you'll learn.

You can draw, scan, import and refine, but all that takes time. And using my little wacom, I can crank out a whole two minute animation of animatic quality in about a day...I leave all the other stuff until after I render out of Maya.

[Hookflash]

This PAP thing seems quite neat. However, it seems like a person would need to be familiar with basic 2d classic animation concepts, which I'm not. For example, I don't really understand what the red "layout" drawing mode is for. Does anyone here know of any good tutorials for PAP? Thanks

[NielsKM]

Originally posted by Hookflash
This PAP thing seems quite neat. However, it seems like a person would need to be familiar with basic 2d classic animation concepts, which I'm not. For example, I don't really understand what the red "layout" drawing mode is for. Does anyone here know of any good tutorials for PAP? Thanks

Hi Hookflash.

The red layout mode is for planning your animation. Draw key drawings in this single frame and turn it on while your drawing your actual animation. This way you are better able to control character volume and composition and so on. You can also import a background to your layout sheet, so you can make your character, say, lean against a tree. You see?

For more please visit the official PAP forum here:

www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/forum (http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/forum)

I'm actually in the process of writing tutorials for PAP beginners and more experienced users. The first ones will concentrate on familiar animation exercises and how to do them in PAP. The goal is to have taken the user through all of PAPs functionality after reading all tutorials.

The first ones will be about 1) the drawing tools, 2) making the bouncing ball in a smart way, 3) a walk cycle and 4) using the walkcycle as a cutout for a bigger scene.

[Hookflash]

NielsKM: Ah, that sounds great! PAP: Shareware will be an incredible resource for people (like myself) who are interested in classic animation. I can hardly wait for the tuts.:buttrock:

[Berserga]

Originally posted by toonshady
I was wondering if anyone heard or try Newtek's Aura. They advertise it as a TVpaint solution. I discover this one as I am a Lightwave3d user (also the by the same company

I have Aura 2. It's great, very reminiscent of Deluxepaint on the amiga.

Newtek doesn't sell it anymore though, the original developers broke off to sell it on their own. It will soon be released by Bauhaus software under the name "Mirage". The cool thing about mirage is that it adds lots of cool goodies like an integrated particle system and volumetric light effects. (that render MUCH faster than any 3d volumetrics.)

If you own a Newtek product, like Lightwave, Aura, or a Video Toaster, you can buy the prerelease version right now at the seriously reduced price of $300 (It's around $900 once the 1.0 version comes out) and you get the 1.0 version after it comes out. after that there will be no upgrade price for Aura users. :(
Anyway, I got the Pre release, It's great, for compositing and 2d animation/effects or just plain old paint. (It really is like D-paint on steroids)

http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/

[toonshady]

The particle and volume stuff are just icing for animators. For those who really do animation, the workflow of the 2d animation program should allow animators to do just that really well. I am talking about sketching, frame management, onion skinning, inking and paint, perhaps sound intergration, design usability. Aura seems to do well or have the potential of getting there in all these areas. It's the similar reason that if I am looking to do a digital painting, I would use something like Painter because of it's reference to real world mediums.
But I am wondering, did Mirage implemented the turn table feature yet? You know, like rotating the canvas so that you can sketch base on the natural arc of your wrist motion and the position of your drawing arm.

[Berserga]

I don't think so, at least not in the pre-release version. I could have missed something like that though cuz I'm mostly using it for compositing 3d not for drawing, and have only had it for a few days.

[ChrisHale]

Not sure if anyones posted it already but a good free compositing/compiling tool I use at work is VirtualDub. www.virtualdub.com

[NielsKM]

Some time ago I promissed to get back to you guys, when I had written some tutorials for PAP.

I'm sorry for my "speed" - but here are my first 4 lessons... :)

http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/tuts/Tutorials.html

Please also visit our forum:

http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/forum

I would love some feedback on the tutorials before they go on the PAP website frontpage... Am I going too fast or too slow? Is it a too basic level or too technical or what is it?! :)

Thanks!

Regards,

[NielsKM]

Helloo? Anybody here? I feel so alone... :cry:

[Wigaru Wiyamoto]

Those are great tutorials NielsKM. I haven't looked at PAP in a little while, I'll have to read those tuts and play around again.

[NielsKM]

Allright! Thanks for the quick responce and your kind words on my crying post!! :)

I'll look forward to your comments if you get the time to take a closer look. Thanks.

[Mazer]

So, when is that Pap linux vertion comming out? I'm having alot of fun learning with the shareware vertion, but having to reboot into windows just ruins the experience:hmm:

I'l be happy to beta-test the demo, i'm not very busy right now:shrug:

[NielsKM]

Hi Mazer.

It's really only a matter of days untill we have a quite stable beta version of the PAP Linux version!

Send me your email and we'll talk about beta testing... :)

[animad]

Hi, maybe it's too late for the answer but in case you don't know yet about the software that commonly used, maybe you can try software retas!PRO. That name is commonly used in animation company and easy for those who already familiar with 2d animation.

click http://www.retas.com
:buttrock:

[majstor]

Hello

What about the Mac version of Pap? I haven't noticed any on the site.
Couse for me it would be better to have it for mac.

[NielsKM]

Hi Majstor.

I'm sorry I can't give you any real info about a possible Mac version. At the moment we are concentrating on the Linux version and the next release.

A Mac OSX version shouldn't take that long to create, though - once we have the Linux version and all the stuff we are writing at the moment...

But we will have to get a feel of how many Mac users are actually interested in a 2D animation package like PAP. We've had many people contacting us about it - but not THAT many. :)

[majstor]

Thank you NielsKM

I understand, that there aren't so many mac users asking. And I would be interested in OS 9 version, what I suppose you wouldn't bother with, as there are more users using OS X and very little aplications are made for OS 9 now.

I also am not so serious about using PAP, it's more that I'd like to test it on mac, where I have a tablet installed, and try to do as much there.

Thank you again.

By

[dominic_devinci]

I'm a classical animator. What is currently use in most studio is the software Flipbook by digicel.
A lot of pples are using it in many studios as Disney, WB.....
U can buy it from the website for a cheap price depending on ur needs.
Anyway just check it out
www.digicelinc.com

[LucentDreams]

Dominic, Are you using it as simply a linetester or for actual DIP. Many studios are or have used it, and its taught at a lot of institutions, but rarely is it used for anything more then a line tester. and it should be noted their is a free application available (suspiciously similar to digicels product) that is available for free for linetesting too. its called taptoons. now don't get me wrong I"m not dissing digicel as an app, its one of the best line testers out there imo, taptoons definitely isn't as good either (but its free)

But as a DIP program or for actually drawing animation in, its not an ideal app.

Digital video the makers of Toonz have released their new paperless app, definitely superior to toonboom (its what toonboom claimed they'd be) www.the-tab.com

I know what I'm buying soon :)

[Windex]

yea but it used to be 99 bux a few months ago, i KNOW (trust me)
but for some reason (maybe more ppl are buying) they've increased the price to 495 us dollars...HOW...HOW..ughhh

and oh yea, they had an animation contest (deadline was dec. 2003) and they were gonna give the best animation a copy of the program, but since it wasn't known at ALL, almost no one participated and they extended the deadline 2 times

but even with all this, it is a good program (IT actually has a camera)
seach earlier threads to know the real truth

[LucentDreams]

I'm writing a review of the tab for 3dworxx.de, I"ll make sure to let you know about it when its up.

[pwassink]

Hello Kaiskai,
very interesting threat you have here

i'm a paperless 2D animator
i knew "Pap" already and just checked out "The Tab"
which looks verry nice, although on first glance it does not really seem suitable to produce animation in, it looks more like the ultimate storyboard tool.
but i'm not sure, from what i could tell from their site the drawing tools seemed rather limited.
i guess i'll have to await your review

i work mainly with "Mirage (http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/)" a program that i missed on your list
i can recommend you to check it out.
like Pap it allows paperless animation with excellent lightable but it offers so much more

another Profesional package i have worked with but is not in your list is "celaction2D (http://www.celaction.com/) " also definately worth checking out

:thumbsup:

[DracoNB]

I'm having a problem when running the Wacom version of the shareware PAP. The first time I loaded it up, it would not respond to my wacom, and the only button that worked was the menu one I had assigned which forced the program to minimize. I then had to end the task as it would not respond to any input :(

I tried the mouse version, and it loaded my wacom and mouse fine, but the pressure did not work on the wacom pen, so I quit and loaded up the wacom version again. It worked! But then I clicked the menu button and when I clicked the window in the task bar it no longer responded to any input and I had to end task again :S

Any suggestions? It looks pretty cool, I was just about to try changing the size of my eraser when I broke it hehe :D

Edit: Oh ya, I have a brand new Wacom 4x5 Graphire 3 :)

[NielsKM]

Hi DracoNB!

Here's a cut&paste from the FAQ at plasticanimationpaper.dk (http://plasticanimationpaper.dk)

Q: PAP freezes moments after I opened it!

A: This seems to happen with Windows 2000 and XP. It's a known 'issue' with the Wacom drivers and Windows Wintab. The best work-around is to disable 'Show Web Content' from the Active Desktop settings in Windows. If you use a backdrop on your desktop, make sure it's BMP format for it to work after disabling the web content. Another work-around is to press Alt-Tab back and forth when PAP freezes, and it will work again.


Hope this will help you! :)

[DracoNB]

Wow thanks for the quick responce :)

I'll try it out when I get home from school, it looked like a real fun program to use :). And yep, I'm using XP and a jpg background ;)

[gosia]

Does anyone here know of a very simple, yet very good quality 2D animation program. Oh yeah, and it needs to be free.

Any help would be greatly appreciated... :D
Why don’t you try the TAB. It is for free only for 15 days but it can be useful for you if you have a short time project. You can download it at www.the-tab.com (http://www.the-tab.com/). Good luck!

[thedaemon]

I've been using TAB, its pretty nice, but it lack the easy and normal vector editing tools. IE you can't create a shape point by point, you have to actually draw it out. Plus you can't view the points at all to edit them. Although it has other tools that suffice, they are not as precise as I wish. That's the only bad part I see about TAB. Currently using it for sprites for a fangame. Wish me luck!

[userBrian]

Like the guy said we just want a 2D animation program for ARTISTS, and by that we mean people who want and can draw and ink and add sound. Just like autodesk animation studio
or pro (I got both) but that work with sound on todays computers. Mirage got me excited but it has so many useless to artists features for TV switcher jockeys that the program appears useless like other skitzophrenic 2D animation programs. And no. I dont need a program that draws only lines and animates them! Wow! Because when programs add a bunch of anti-artist features they always screw the artist and the program just messes up.

[userBrian]

IMHO mirage is the video toaster without the hardware and may be why they
left Newtek....just what I believe. So how about a 2D animation program individual
artists can afford (read above entry).

[Akira Shimada]

I don't really understand this, could you explain? I'm looking for free animation and coloring software.I know a free 2d animation software. You need :

-YourBrain.lib
-eyes.exe
-pen.dll
-And another plugin : 1001sheet.dlo

:scream:

[LucentDreams]

I don't really understand this, could you explain? I'm looking for free animation and coloring software.


Little naive no? Basically he was saying do 2D animation the traditional way. some paper a pen (really a pencil dunno many who do it with a pen) your brain and your eyes.

[eupee]

im subscribing to this thread.. im keen on 2d animation.. as now i am doing layer by layer in photoshop, and get my bro to composite them in shake, since i dont have that program... cheers for the links.

[userBrian]

Well I downloaded Mirage trial and tried it, and the 2d animation tools seem
pretty good. I admit I did a pretty limited test, as i'm working on the 3D
cgtalk grand space opera challenge. My 30 day test is up. If I decide to get
a 2D animation package i'll get this one...but I may just stick with 3D. I'm
into too much already.

My 3D Grand Space Opera entry (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=179803)

[resurepus]

http://www.creaturehouse.com/lcels.htm Creature house has one of the simplest and coolest vector illustration programs, I like it more than Illustrator myself, though its not designed for also doing page layouts and such. NOw they are working on Living Cels, not available yet, but taking advantage of their awesome vector tools and stroke effcts and such, this is one tool to keep an eye one. Already Expresssion 3 has swf output and some basic scripting abilities for buttons and such. Hopefully they release their own output format for animation as well that takes advantage of their strokes and realtime reflection map embossing. Both packages I recommend you keep an eye out for. Its still tryingto get the word out there, but IMO these guys are making something big and revolutionary.

It sounded very interesting to me. But when I opened the link I was greatly disappointed. Miscrosoft has got its filthy hands on this product. No revolution in vector drawing will happen...

[cg_flipper]

Although not "free" Mirage is now available for a 30day Trial period. Which unlike their previous version is fully functioal and does not put a nasty watermark on your stuff. This is the program to use for 2d animation especially if you want the classical hand drawn look - ie not vector.

[yosemite]

Howdy folks. As a Mac user I don't have PAP. Can anyone tell me what advantages PAP has over something like After Effects? That's currently the program I use for 2d animation.

[pwassink]

Howdy folks. As a Mac user I don't have PAP. Can anyone tell me what advantages PAP has over something like After Effects? That's currently the program I use for 2d animation.
PAP is a 2d animation program for drawn animation.
AE is a composition program... you cannot draw in AE

if you want to do drawn animation on your mac, check out Mirage. Its much more versatile then PAP

[yosemite]

PAP is a 2d animation program for drawn animation.
AE is a composition program... you cannot draw in AE

if you want to do drawn animation on your mac, check out Mirage. Its much more versatile then PAP

Thanks Peter, but I'm fully aware of what After Effects is. Technically, you can draw in AE albeit tedious to the N-th degree.

Allow me to elaborate, what I was asking was; what would I gain by having my images (how ever created) in PAP rather than AE. With Photoshop I can clean up frames and carry through to AE easily enough. I can then output my animation and control the rate as I please. I hope that's clearer, if not let me know.

[pwassink]

what I was asking was; what would I gain by having my images (how ever created) in PAP rather than AE.
answer: (practicly) nothing.

Pap was designed to Create the drawings in
not to handle them once you have them there (maybe apart from some timeline handling)
(Photoshop has no playback ability, so in that sense you could use PAP as sort of a linetester..? )

al is geared towards optimal digital drawnanimation conditions
any postproduction, even coloring(!) should be done in other apps

[NielsKM]

Howdy folks. As a Mac user I don't have PAP. Can anyone tell me what advantages PAP has over something like After Effects? That's currently the program I use for 2d animation.

Hi Yosemite!

I can tell you that PAP will actually be ready and released for Mac OSX later this year.

Regards,
Niels

[RussellKevin]

www.lightfootltd.com (http://www.lightfootltd.com) Has All the Necessary tools to become a Professional 2d animation, Good luck!

[iChiaz]

Try this.. www.bauhaussoftware.com (http://www.bauhaussoftware.com) its very good 2D animation software and its very easy to understand how it working!

[NielsKM]

Hi guys!

PAP is now out as beta in its 4.0 version! Try the awsome zoom tool...

http://www.plasticanimationpaper.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1258

Cheers,
Niels

[ANARKY]

One thing im not clear on as regards PAP is this;
I usually do my Artwork in Photoshop, and I was thinking of adding music and Animation to them. Basically it would be some Panning or zooming around still images with a few bits of actual Framed Animation within, all put to music.
Can I do this with PAP?
If not, what would you all recomend?

What can you output to with PAP?

[MrTanaka]

so i conclude that i can draw and plan out the animation in pap, colour and finalise the frames in photoshop and then put together and render in after effects..
just a few questions: What files can you save it as in pap, jpg???
could you start a frame in photoshop and then take it into pap??? say create a jpg/bmp and then import into pap..
i will be looking on the pap forum etc for my answers and ansking my silly questions but i just wanted to ask here in case, i am doing a short 3d anim, i want to work in more pixel than vector, i like drawing in photoshop nice detailed pics and to animate these would be great, 20 sec animation, is pap and after effects the correct way to go???
Last of all--could i render out of premier instead of after efects, could i do enough in pap and photoshop to be able to render out a decent 2d short in premier???
thanks for all the previous posts, im getting there!!

[wladyslav]

Hi.
You can use TGA or tiff, png and other image format thith Alpha channel. Its need to compositing at AE, primere. Format Jpg or bmp not have alpha - you cant normally working thith this.
for information: CAS animo anderstud PAP format to import. In CAS animo you can Ink & paint yor shorts, work thith Xsheet. Compositing your scenes and render it to any format from TV to 2K,4K e.t.c.
sorry for my not good english.

[pwassink]

so i conclude that i can draw and plan out the animation in pap, colour and finalise the frames in photoshop and then put together and render in after effects..
just a few questions: What files can you save it as in pap, jpg???
could you start a frame in photoshop and then take it into pap??? say create a jpg/bmp and then import into pap..
i will be looking on the pap forum etc for my answers and ansking my silly questions but i just wanted to ask here in case, i am doing a short 3d anim, i want to work in more pixel than vector, i like drawing in photoshop nice detailed pics and to animate these would be great, 20 sec animation, is pap and after effects the correct way to go???
Last of all--could i render out of premier instead of after efects, could i do enough in pap and photoshop to be able to render out a decent 2d short in premier???
thanks for all the previous posts, im getting there!!
Let me start by saying that i don't think there is such a thing as 'the correct way to go' ...in art everything goes as long as it suits you!

But to get in to your pipeline question (thats the 'industry' term for the sequence of programs you use ) to me it seems painfully long.
Starting in pap do some animating there then exporting your jpegs to photoshop color them there then after effects for the camera shots and special effects and then...finally going to premiere to edit it together.
i'm a professional 2D animator and i do all of these steps in one program called Mirage(TVP animator)
it is a bitmap type program and just like photoshop has layers and similar paint options but it also has a timeline like after effects and it lets you do effects and camera moves.
it is very suitable for 2D animation. the latest incarnation of it even has a rotating animation disk and a multiplane camera option
check it out: here (http://www.tvpaint.com/tvpa.php?lang=2)
you can download a fully working 30 day demo(beta version) when you subscribe to the forum
mirage has a rapidly growing userbase and a great community of users
here (http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/2D_Animation.php)

greetings peter (http://www.peterwassink.nl)

[neablo]

hey guys, nice tools you propose.

I have been looking for an open source solution and what I've found is http://www.synfig.com/

Do you know the program?
I'll give this a try right now...

Anyone who knows another good open source animation prog?

pap is cool btw but I hate to work with deactivated features and as I am a student I cannot effort one of the better versions beginning at 500 €

@niels:
Is there maybe a plan to release a student version? *hehe :D *
Or how do I get the features like importing to good ol PS 7 or the blue pen and x-table?

[Suricate]

pap is cool btw but I hate to work with deactivated features and as I am a student I cannot effort one of the better versions beginning at 500 €

@niels:
Is there maybe a plan to release a student version? *hehe :D *
Or how do I get the features like importing to good ol PS 7 or the blue pen and x-table?

PAP 4.0 is currently in open beta. Once it will be released, there will be a PAP:Home edition with many advanced features at an introductory price of $99 (later it will be $149), check out the announcement in their forum. Also, there are discounts for animation students, maybe you should contact their sales department.

[jorgy]

I have been very happy with moho from Lost Marble - www.lostmarble.com (http://www.lostmarble.com). It is $99, has a free demo, has versions for Mac, PC, and Linux.

It has a nice bone system, particles, and an active user base. Check it out!

[Bluebird2602]

You guys should check this out: http://www.giantscreamingrobotmonkeys.com/monkeyjam/index.html

"Monkeyjam" is a really nice free piece of animation software that is a lot like toonboom. It has an X-sheet and other nice tools/ even a stop motion live feed for your camera! I have had students use it in my class. Check it out.

[neablo]

thats a nice program, this 'monkeyjam', but it is only a linetesting tool

What most people want is a program where they can actually draw in (with their tablet)
and where they can edit the images directly

[LucentDreams]

or at least have low level DIP in if its going to scan/capture. Very nice to here about monkey jam none the less seems like a great linetesting software.

[evar]

My personal Preference is to use TVP Animation (tvpaint.com) - I also own Moho, PD Pro, CTP, and *paint - and have used Flash, US Animation/Toon Boom, etc....

But when it comes down to it, for me and when Im doing a solo project or with just a half dozen person team... TVP Animation is hard to beat. It is almost like if Photoshop were an animation program.

If it does what you want it to do, and you dont expect for it to do your work for you - all you need to do is decide which accomodates your workflow better. Really, if you were ambitious - you could animate something in MS Paint.... it would be a long process, but its possible. But its not really the software that decides how it would turn out in many cases, but the work you put into it...

[staigerman]

try the free version of Project Dogwaffle.

www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/free

[Toastysquirrel]

My question may have been answered already but basically I'm a paperless artest, my sketches typically originate in Alias Sketchbook Pro, then I import them over to Flash where I "trace" over them, adding color and whatnot to get my finished product, or now that I'm drawing in higher volume I draw it in Sketchbook Pro then occationally import the illustration over to Photoshop to color it.

Now I'm looking to do 2D animation with my work, so I'm not sure what to do exactly; or rather what software I can use to do the animation. I've never delved into computer animation before so I'm only familiar with drawing then redrawing each freakin' frame and then compiling it together - and that's a method I'm not keen on in the least.

That method seems rather archaic to me. Is there some software that will allow me to take my illustration and then easily make changes to it and then animate that sequence? I thought about doing that in Flash but that also sounds terribly tedious, unless of course there's some way to streamline that method.

Thanks in advance, you're all great! If you need more information or detail let me know, I didn't want to take up too much space in my initial post.

[staigerman]

Try Project Dogwaffle. It's much more than a paint program, it's also an animation program.

If you're a traditional old-school artists drawing and sketching each frame yourself, such as with Alieas Sketch, you can save these to Targa or similar raster image frames and load them into Dogwaffle. Or you can do all in Dogwaffle.

Try the Demo: www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/demozone (http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/demozone)

See sample drawings and sketches at www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/dotm (http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/dotm)


Now that's if you want to stay on the raster side of things. Another affordable and yet also very powerful animation program is Lost Marble's Moho, which is vector based, with bones for 2D animation of objects. It can even load 3D objects too I think. Dogwaffle can make a powerful companion to Moho, hence it's cross linked in their links page. www.lostmarble.com (http://www.lostmarble.com)

You might even want to consider some 3D approaches even if in the end you render out to a toon shader 2D look. Something like Carrara Studio 3 at beloww $29 might be a good start. www.thebest3d.com/carrara (http://www.thebest3d.com/carrara) - Carrara has a Storyboard room.

[Shanytc]

I think, till now days, no 2d animation tool could ever beat "Autodesk Animator" !!
It is, THE best software for 2d animation ever created.
the Windows version is cool, the DOS version is nostalgie! :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk_Animator

I still use the windows version, and love it!

[TimothyElliot]

thats a nice program, this 'monkeyjam', but it is only a linetesting tool

What most people want is a program where they can actually draw in (with their tablet)
and where they can edit the images directly


Pencil: http://www.les-stooges.org/pascal/pencil/index.php?id=Home

It's free. You can create drawings on your tablet -- both bitmap and vector; it's multi-layered; can import sound tracks; onion skin; the response is fast. Works on both Windows and Mac.

You can click the right/left arrow-buttons with one hand (while in the time-line window) at the same time you're drawing with the other hand, to imitate rolling through the frames.

[Tyokio]

has toon boom been mentioned here, thats a pretty classy program to use. even though I prefere flash.

[Sesther]

I came across a cut-out animation program that's free to download.. just thought this would fit nicely to this thread if anyone's interested.. :)
http://www.creatoon.com/index.php (http://http://www.creatoon.com/index.php)

I've been trying it out today and it seems pretty handy..

[staigerman]

I came across a cut-out animation program that's free to download.. just thought this would fit nicely to this thread if anyone's interested.. :)
http://www.creatoon.com/index.php (http://http://www.creatoon.com/index.php)

I've been trying it out today and it seems pretty handy..

Creatoon is very nicely done indeed. Too bad it's been discontinued, or so it seems anyway.

Speaking of animation tools, we just released PD Pro 4.0b (separate thread)

[Chiko]

Wow! Thanks for this thread :) and I thought I was going to have to do everything myself in Image ready...

I downloaded PAP just now, and going to play around with it.

[ojcruz]

Hello . I'm just getting used to paperless 2d animation and I have been using Photoshop to draw all the frames. Unfortunatedly Photoshop's animation abilities are very limited as the animation palette is very rudimentary. I started looking for 2d animation software and I've downloaded trail versions of RetaPro and Toonboom. Although they seem very useful I haven't been able to give my animation the sketchy feeling that I can produce with my wacom in Photoshop seeing as the presure sensitivity in these apps seems to be very limited in comparision and I was wondering if anyone knew of any software where this could be acomplished or if maybe it is possible to make fine ajustments to pen pressure in these apps .

[TimothyElliot]

You might check out Pencil, I've gotten a nice sketchy feel from that application:


http://www.les-stooges.org/pascal/pencil/

[Lomax]

Tweenmaker is another nifty little app -
http://www.elecorn.com/tweenmaker/

[masterhhili]

I know a free 2d animation software. You need :

-YourBrain.lib
-eyes.exe
-pen.dll
-And another plugin : 1001sheet.dlo

:scream:

:thumbsup:

[mohsen123]

hi
i was mak e cartoon 5/6 month age with macromedia flash
http://mohsen123.persiangig.com/image/anim.jpg
it was very hard for me to make this (becouse "in flash" there is no bone for creat body...)
but flash have many good thigs for make a 2d animation (support many formats / use easy vectors and edit / highquality of published .swf animations And ...)
now i wanna develop my cartoon but i wont use flash again and i wanna use another program that (suport bone / publish high quality "800x600 for DVD" / suport background transparent formats .png . .tga ... )
{i creat and ilustrate my characters in photoshop . so i wont drow and animation}
:sad:


thank you for this good forum & tapic and thnak you if help me.:thumbsup:

[TheCheshireCat]

Hey everyone!

A client asked me to make an intro for her website - She wants to have her signature "written" dynamically (As if some invisible pen is writing it)

I know how to use Flash and 3ds Max, and I was wondering if you could please point me to someplace where I can learn how this is done, or maybe give me the name of the technique or tool you recommend for me to use in order to create this effect. I could use any of these two programs. (Although if rendered in max I will probably make an swf out of it just for convenience)

Thanks for your help.

[ojcruz]

Hey Cheshire cat
As far as I know the only way to do that in Flash is to animate a stroke by hand or by tweening. As for 3dmax I'm not sure, but maya can deform an object across a path so I'm sure you can do it that way. You would have to animate the influence atributes. Alternatively I know for a fact that After Effects does it rather easily. You basicaly draw the first and the last frame of the stroke and it fills in the tweened frames following the the path from start point to end point. That's how I would go about it. Combustion does it too.

Anyways, hope this is helpful

[Xevious]

My personal Preference is to use TVP Animation (tvpaint.com) - I also own Moho, PD Pro, CTP, and *paint - and have used Flash, US Animation/Toon Boom, etc....

But when it comes down to it, for me and when Im doing a solo project or with just a half dozen person team... TVP Animation is hard to beat. It is almost like if Photoshop were an animation program.

If it does what you want it to do, and you dont expect for it to do your work for you - all you need to do is decide which accomodates your workflow better. Really, if you were ambitious - you could animate something in MS Paint.... it would be a long process, but its possible. But its not really the software that decides how it would turn out in many cases, but the work you put into it...

I've been giving a good hard look at this program TV Paint...I heard it used to be Bauhaus Mirage but now its under another developer. I have some concerns about the program though:

1. The website http://www.tvpaint.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=77
Is not very well designed. Its doesn't give you a lot of information on the software. Its hard to find screenshots for example.

2. What was interesting about Mirage was that it was a traditional animation tool but you can do effects like a composition program. I'm not clear if those extra features are carried over to TVpaint. The website is not very clear.

3. There are no reviews anywhere for TV paint

4. Its seems hard to find. I clicked on the link for resellers and the only one listed in North America is in Mexico City...That inspires confidence....

[Suricate]

Well, as far as I understood, TVPaint always had the same developer, it is only that version 7 has been licensed to Bauhaus Software to sell it under the name 'Mirage'. Earlier versions had been sold under the name 'Aura'.

There is a downloadable 30-day trial demo for TVPaint on their website, so you can give it a try.

As far as resellers are concerned, I understood that - if your country has no reseller - you can order directly at their online store and pay via PayPal.

[MTuttle]

I only just heard of MediaPEGS from finding a discarded July 2000 edition of Animation Magazene, since it had what looked like a CG Rocky & Bullwinkle that I had never seen before...Anyway PEGS seems to have dissapeared from the cyber map, does anyone know what happened to them?

[sirielle]

Thank you people for lot of information here :) I just struggled with animation in Painter 9, managed to do a 30 seconds test, but it would be hard to do anything longer in it. I just downloaded PAP and a few other recommended programs and will try them. I only hope I can import images from Painter into them or paint in a similar way inside of the programs.

[AlienMonsterRobot]

PAP is a good platform to start with, although a trial version of Toon Boom Studio would be more ideal. I'm not promoting TB per se (I use Digital Pro professionally and love the workflow and "faux" 3D effects), but the price of TB Studio (v4-4.5) has dropped to more "affordable" levels. Much of the 2D content out today (Family Guy, much of the Adult Swim catalog, etc.) uses Toon Boom in conjunction with Max/Maya.

Regardless of the software, be prepared for a steeper learning curve if you're not familiar with rigging and keyframing, though. It helps to have some experience, whether in Flash or the "old-school" method of cell/plate animation. Also, you'll be more prepared to move into 3D animation, if that is another possible area of interest.

Good luck!

[sirielle]

Thank you for the answer!

I'm definitely into the old school method of cell animation, I want to paint all the frames - my first test is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPSM9mlyk3E&fmt=18). Most of the recommended software is vector based, not what I seek. PAP is nice for learning basics of the movement, but does not offer real painting on a frame (cell). Probably TVPaint will judging by tutorials on-line, I'll give it a try one day, don't want to ruing the trial version ATM, when my animation is not ready enough and I need to take care of another projects first.

3D art seems to be the future so I'll probably learn it one day, but want to get better in 2D first, as it's what I enjoy the most. Yet for making animation 3D might be a better solution, too.

[joryayer]

Raising this thread from the dead!

Digicel's Flipbook (http://www.digicelinc.com/) is pretty awesome stuff also...

[sirielle]

Thank you for the info :)

[staigerman]

if you don't like hard, try easy: Anime Studio

some ideas: www.thebest3d.com/animestudio (http://www.thebest3d.com/animestudio)

If you need a tool that let's you paint and then animate through custom brushes, tvpaint rocks, also Dogwaffle (cheaper and better for painting)




hi
i was mak e cartoon 5/6 month age with macromedia flash
http://mohsen123.persiangig.com/image/anim.jpg
it was very hard for me to make this (becouse "in flash" there is no bone for creat body...)
but flash have many good thigs for make a 2d animation (support many formats / use easy vectors and edit / highquality of published .swf animations And ...)
now i wanna develop my cartoon but i wont use flash again and i wanna use another program that (suport bone / publish high quality "800x600 for DVD" / suport background transparent formats .png . .tga ... )
{i creat and ilustrate my characters in photoshop . so i wont drow and animation}
:sad:
thank you for this good forum & tapic and thnak you if help me.:thumbsup:

[TOONEDs]

hey guys
im learning 2D animation right now and im using toon boom and tablet. here is my question, what is the best professional 2D animation software? what does big studios use?
and my second question, what should i use? tablet or paper with pencil? tablet is faster and easier but paper has better quality. right? and is paper getting out of date?

[Breckman]

Hi guy's,

I have just one question, what software use the Draftsmen for the Simpsons and Futurama ???

Thank you very much

[TOONEDs]

as far as i know, they use toon boom harmony for simpsons. thay draw on paper and scan to toon boom. i dont know anything about Futurama, but i think its toon boom too.

[Breckman]

as far as i know, they use toon boom harmony for simpsons. thay draw on paper and scan to toon boom. i dont know anything about Futurama, but i think its toon boom too.

Ok Ok, thank you very much russian boy XD . Bye and GL for the futur :)

[JanosHunyadi]

The wacom inkling conversation raised an interesting point for me. It seems the way animators still go about their work is by drawing out on paper and then scanning/coloring.

That physical divide between paper and digital seems to be starting to get solved, but it seems 2d animation still has this barrier that makes it unnecessarily labor intensive.

[coolpack]

Hi guys,

I need your help.
I see a really good software but I can't remember the name.

I join a photo of the software. Does anyone know it ?

Thanks !

[Breckman]

Hello,

this software is can be to be part of the adobe license. Otherwise, which is widely used as software for 2D, there is TVPaint !

[coolpack]

Ok thanks !

I forget to tell it was a 2D animation software.
I didn't know Adobe create one.

I look for a professionnel non vector animation 2D software.
I'm tired to use photoshop animation system (this is for video game 2D animation).

I will try TV paint.

[coolpack]

I'm curious to know the name of the adobe animation soft in the photo (see my previous post).

Does anyone know it ?

[sirielle]

Maybe it's from the new Photoshop CS6? Beta is out (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1042324 ). I've downloaded the beta, but had no time to install it, yet.