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View Full Version : First Gnomon Workshop DVD for LW!


Vojislav+Milanovic
03-29-2007, 04:34 AM
The first Gnomon Workshop DVD for Lightwave is out!
No more to say about it..
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/tba01.html

cheers!

abuminalis
03-29-2007, 08:29 PM
Personally i think this tutorial should have been released, like 5 years ago, now almost everybody knows how to model heads. Plus the fact this is not a realistic head, but a stylized one. Not buying this.

Signal2Noise
03-29-2007, 09:35 PM
Gnomon's way of trying to cash in on the ever growing LW community, perhaps?

Personally I think the 3D Garage DVDs are much better. :p

abuminalis
03-29-2007, 10:10 PM
I think the problem is Taron himself, for what i read in the foruns, he's the type of guy that likes to makes thing fast, but things fast aren't always necessary well done and intrincate works. I would prefer to see a good dvd about high poly modeling and texturing, than a stylized head. I've seen the final model in gnomon site, and i didn't find anything special about it, plus the fact it doesn't have a center line in the geometry, i wonder why?

murcielago
03-30-2007, 06:08 AM
Gnomon's way of trying to cash in on the ever growing LW community, perhaps?

Personally I think the 3D Garage DVDs are much better. :p

Youre kidding right? I dont think you can compare DVDs that teach very basic LW principles to what Tarons got. Night and Day IMO...

biliousfrog
03-30-2007, 11:51 AM
I think the problem is Taron himself, for what i read in the foruns, he's the type of guy that likes to makes thing fast, but things fast aren't always necessary well done and intrincate works. I would prefer to see a good dvd about high poly modeling and texturing, than a stylized head. I've seen the final model in gnomon site, and i didn't find anything special about it, plus the fact it doesn't have a center line in the geometry, i wonder why?

Please visit Taron's website & then post back.

Taron has a very good workflow with Lightwave-ZBrush-Messiah. LW9's new renderer is as good as Messiah's now with regards to poly count & Node's & Mudbox offers many of the sculpting tools that ZBrush has but at a lower cost so Taron's DVD should show people how to get a decent base mesh for further sculpting. There is little point in making a very high-poly head directly in Lightwave as it will make future animation very difficult where-as using a low-poly head with render time displacements allows much more flexibility...it also allows a base mesh to be used for many different heads (see Taron's People animation which uses the same base head model). The skill is in creating a low-poly head with good detail & smooth poly flow.

Personally I think that $49 for 2hrs of training with Taron, showing a very important basic skill that is often overlooked is a bargain.

abuminalis
03-30-2007, 11:51 AM
Youre kidding right? I dont think you can compare DVDs that teach very basic LW principles to what Tarons got. Night and Day IMO...

Have you seen the model Tarons teach to do? Well i found it to be also very basic. Even i could teach to make a better model...Anyways, these artists can piss on a can, and have people always buying their stuff, sad...

abuminalis
03-30-2007, 12:00 PM
Please visit Taron's website & then post back.

Taron has a very good workflow with Lightwave-ZBrush-Messiah. LW9's new renderer is as good as Messiah's now with regards to poly count & Node's & Mudbox offers many of the sculpting tools that ZBrush has but at a lower cost so Taron's DVD should show people how to get a decent base mesh for further sculpting. There is little point in making a very high-poly head directly in Lightwave as it will make future animation very difficult where-as using a low-poly head with render time displacements allows much more flexibility...it also allows a base mesh to be used for many different heads (see Taron's People animation which uses the same base head model). The skill is in creating a low-poly head with good detail & smooth poly flow.

Personally I think that $49 for 2hrs of training with Taron, showing a very important basic skill that is often overlooked is a bargain.

I know Taron website, and his works, thank you. Believe me, i don't need to spend 50$ on a dvd, to teach me to gather a silly 200 poly head. It's so easy to find nice tutorials about this subject in the net, that i found ridiculous, a well known artist like him to release a dvd about this matter. Plus the fact he uses a method that i hate: Box Modeling.

This was an artist that i would like to release a dvd, Jacques Defontaine:

http://www.tkio.net/Images/Artworks/MOV_WIP_004.jpg

Limbus
03-30-2007, 12:38 PM
I know Taron website, and his works, thank you. Believe me, i don't need to spend 50$ on a dvd, to teach me to gather a silly 200 poly head. It's so easy to find nice tutorials about this subject in the net, that i found ridiculous, a well known artist like him to release a dvd about this matter. Plus the fact he uses a method that i hate: Box Modeling.



Get a life.

angel
03-30-2007, 12:54 PM
See, its quite simple... don't like Taron or his technique? don't buy the dvd.

biliousfrog
03-30-2007, 12:55 PM
Get a life.

+1 :rolleyes:

HowardM
03-30-2007, 01:04 PM
you guys are funny...
so lets cheer to Gnomon finally making LW DVDs! lets hope theres more from them... maybe even a cool Dynamics DVD? ;)

abuminalis
03-30-2007, 01:06 PM
Get a life.

Thanks...I will, with your mutter.

Zarathustra
03-30-2007, 01:25 PM
A Defontaine video would be great.

Good: Gnomon making a LW video. That's sort of a nod to the value of LW since they're supposed to be the fancy-shmancy pro training company. It's like saying, "LW is worth having and using professionally so let's make some training for it".

Bad: A Modeler video? Nothing about LW animation, lighting, surfacing, rendering, anything? That's curious, and unfortunate. First step into LW and it's a head modeling video in 2007. Well maybe the other topics will come later. Also, as was pointed out above, aren't there enough tutorials online on how to model a head?

Ugly: Going through this thread watching some of you throw poo at each other over the release of a dvd that will have no affect on you. I mean if you're going to fight, at least fight over the tools, the direction of the app, the company, something that impacts us. A training dvd? Please. This makes talking about Adobe buying LW seem like a serious conversation. :hmm:

abuminalis
03-30-2007, 02:34 PM
LW is worth having and using professionally so
let's make some training for it"

I have my teories:

I don't think gnomon thought, "hey in all these
years we didn't give a sh..t about lightwave, let's finally make a dvd about it"

That was secondary.

What happened was:

Taron wants to make a modeling dvd and he uses lightwave. Period.

For some reason, they talk about the man like he
was a God, and don't mention lightwave at all, so
i doubth very much about gnomon objective
intentions about placing lightwave in their route.

First step into LW and it's a head modeling video in 2007.

And a bad head modeling video in 2007, that's the scariest part. I know the guy models these kind of heads really fast, but it reminds me elder people that do some coin trick, over and over to impress kids, and at some point the kids discover how it's done...And it's not fun anymore.

In gnomon press release they say this:

"adding details, controlling topology and fine-tuning proportions"

WTF?!

Signal2Noise
03-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Youre kidding right? ...


Uh, nooo....I'm not.

I'm just a tad bitter that it's taken Gnomon this long to put out something for LW. Why after all this time did they decide to now? And a basic modeling tutorial no less which most people already know from the Inside books and good ol' www.

As Zarathustra noted, Gnomon should have concentrated on putting out something more comprehensive covering every aspect of LW. Afterall, LightWave is a one-man powerhouse studio out of the box. There's more to LW than modeling.

Adobe buying LW? What a silly notion! ;)

softdistortion
03-30-2007, 02:41 PM
Gnomon DVD's I've seen are all pretty good...some you maybe only get a couple workflow ideas or keyboard/work shortcuts. Still, I find the main benefit to some of these DVD's is that even if you know alot of the howto etc, they are an insight on a talented person's workflow and sometimes expand ideas on methods you haven't tried or considered.

The stuff that seems to be happening lately..300, Adobe, Gnomon, cleaning out old crap images of LW work from years past... is all good for LW imho.

...reading some of the goofy comments in here, I wonder if the next upgrade should be for some of us LW users. :p

Sil3
03-30-2007, 02:54 PM
Anyone actually thought that perhaps Taron did a DVD for Gnomon because Alex Alvarez asked him to do it?

Tarons participated on several Gnomon Zbrush meetings, doing modeling live both in LW and in Zbrush and amazed a lot of people, Alex being probably one of those persons and thinking that it would be incredible to have a DVD so that a vast majority of people could see how Taron model in whatever package he uses.

IMO this is a Taron Modeling DVD not a LW DVD as some Wavers like to make it sound, in fact Gnomon never cared much about other 3D Tools besides Maya, only recently did DVDs for MAX, so... this is a DVD that shows LW because it's what Taron uses it and nothing else, if the Ripper would make a DVD for Gnomon im pretty sure it would be done in Modo, since that's what he uses for a long time now.

Anyway, im forward looking to get this DVD, Taron is one of my influences in the 3D world and having this chance to see him model is a bless to me, even if the model isnt made of 1 bilion polys or isn't hyper ultra realistic (who cares about realistic faces anyway, i have a camera for that), and last but not least, im certain i will learn a trick or two in there, but mainly im going to get it simply because i want to see Taron model...simple as that.

Tama
03-30-2007, 02:56 PM
I was anticipating this DVD but I too was dismayed to see the low poly head that Taron
has decided to teach with.:rolleyes: Probably interesting though to see just how he goes about it given his rep for speed and maybe he'll divulge why he tends to model with no center seam.

abuminalis
03-30-2007, 03:21 PM
IMO this is a Taron Modeling DVD not a LW DVD as some Wavers like to make it sound, in fact Gnomon never cared much about other 3D Tools besides Maya, only recently did DVDs for MAX, so... this is a DVD that shows LW because it's what Taron uses it and nothing else, if the Ripper would make a DVD for Gnomon im pretty sure it would be done in Modo, since that's what he uses for a long time now.

I don't know why you are repeating, in other words what i have said already, but ok.

Anyway, im forward looking to get this DVD, Taron is one of my influences in the 3D world and having this chance to see him model is a bless to me, even if the model isnt made of 1 bilion polys or isn't hyper ultra realistic (who cares about realistic faces anyway, i have a camera for that), and last but not least, im certain i will learn a trick or two in there, but mainly im going to get it simply because i want to see Taron model...simple as that.

Glad you and others are happy to pay, because are fanboys, like i said, if Taron pissed in a can and it looked like a demon, you probably bought it. Well i care about realistic faces, and decent topology, because they represent a challenge that not everyone can do, i can do that head he made really easy, and if i couldn't i didn't have to buy his dvd to learn it, there are loads of head tutorials even better than his in the net, for free. If you wanted a realistic face you took a photo...Wow...Nice respect you have there for the people that struggle to make the most dificult thing in Cg...You should say that to ILM, "why do you bother to make things so real, you could take a photo". Damn, than one make my day, lol.

biliousfrog
03-30-2007, 03:35 PM
please stop flaming every response that goes against what you think! We get your point, you don't like what Taron/Gnomon have done, fine...it has been noted, there's no need to turn this thread into a personal crusade to convert everyone else to your way of thinking!:rolleyes:

Zarathustra
03-30-2007, 03:54 PM
Hmmm, Taron's cool, they like Taron, Taron uses LW, ergo...

That's a theory that holds water.



Ok, sorry for interrupting. Resume the poo slinging.

MarkInTx
03-30-2007, 04:29 PM
Wow... this is a strange thread.

So, Taron sucks, huh? Yeah, I guess that's why he's also a featured artist in d'artiste: Character Modeling 2, huh?.

Gawd... This place is unbelievable sometimes...

Taron is not only a real talent, he's also a great guy. He helped me out on some questions I had on Messiah's forum a while back. Not many guy take the time with a noob, and I appreciated it.

Whether his DVD is any good, I can't say -- YET. I know that he has held off doing one for some time because he doesn't think he has a good voice (his accent I think?). But folks have been begging him to do one. (Wonder how many people have asked the folks posting in HERE to do a training video...?)

There is a reason why Taron shows how to build a low poly head. Check out some of his posts in the Messiah forum. He has done some pretty amazing things with a low poly head, and then creating morphs in zBrush, which is actually more efficient.

My take on Gnomen is this: They don't see this as a LW DVD. Otherwise, they would have named it: Modeling in LightWave 9.

The fact that Taron uses LW is inconsequential to them.

As it should be. I have "Freedom of Teach Organic modeling DVD" with Tareq Mirza. He uses Maya. I'm following along in Silo. A couple of times it's a little challenging, but techniques should transfer no matter what program you are using... especially for box modeling. (Spline modeling would be something different again.)

I've learned a lot during the DVD, even though I am in a completely differed 3D app.

I don't see this video as validation of LW as a platform in Gnomen's eyes. I just think they were able to get one of the premier artists to do a training video and didn't really care what 3D app he was using.

I actually see that as a healthy attitude, personally.

I intend to get the Taron Video when it comes out. Call me a fanboy if you like. I'm not buying it because I need validation for LW. (Hell, I don't even use LW modeler any more if I can avoid it. I'm a huge Silo fan...) It's just I enjoy watching real artists work. It's amazing what I have picked up from Tareq's video.

I hope this is one of many from Taron.

essencedesign
03-30-2007, 05:08 PM
Everytime I need a laugh, just hit the LW forums again, and listen to people argue. strangly entertaining.

Sil3
03-30-2007, 05:15 PM
I don't know why you are repeating, in other words what i have said already, but ok.




Ermmm.... i was replying to this thread and i think im entitled to say what i think even if someone else alredy sayed it... unless of course it upsets you so much...im so sorry :rolleyes:



Glad you and others are happy to pay, because are fanboys, like i said, if Taron pissed in a can and it looked like a demon, you probably bought it. Well i care about realistic faces, and decent topology, because they represent a challenge that not everyone can do, i can do that head he made really easy, and if i couldn't i didn't have to buy his dvd to learn it, there are loads of head tutorials even better than his in the net, for free. If you wanted a realistic face you took a photo...Wow...Nice respect you have there for the people that struggle to make the most dificult thing in Cg...You should say that to ILM, "why do you bother to make things so real, you could take a photo". Damn, than one make my day, lol.

Man... Can you understand that not all of us share your opinion and that people have diferente goals and likes in life? Can i spend my hard earned money the things i like or do i need your aprovall on what should be or should not be a Modeling DVD? By the way...are those Piss cans for sale somewhere ( im being Sarcastic in case you dont get it)

I admire the work of ILM but who told you that i want to make in my free time and leisure times models and imagery like ILM or WETA etc etc do? Same way who told you that i want to make animation ala Pixar style?

Besides, if you are expecting to learn how to make REALISTIC heads or persons or animals with by watching Tutorials...i think you should better spend your time gathering references and then model model model model until you are so good at it that you can model anything, Tutorials are nothing more than simple guides that show us a trick or two or some workflow, its then up to you to practice and improve what you saw until you had mastered the techniques shown, this takes years and watching 200 DVD tutorials wont get you nowhere if you dont practice on your own.

Now... Did it also ever occured to you that i might only buy the DVD not because i want to learn how to model a head taron style (or anyone elese style) but simply because i WANT TO SEE Taron modeling?? Can you make that picture inside your head...people buying training DVDs not to learn but because they want to see how someone works, same way i have dozens of How To Draw Books, i buy them because sometimes the style of illustration is so appealing to me, not because i want to learn how to draw by following examples...

It seems to me that you are somewhat pissed because Taron did not made a Tutorial on how to build the most complex creature in the world with 2 bazilion polygons and then Zbrushed it even more so it would be all leet and cool...well though luck, there are other Artists that have those DVDs, do a simple search inside Gnomon website and you proabably will be amazed with some of them.