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playmesumch00ns
03-06-2003, 08:22 AM
As some of you know, I'm currently working on a non-photorealistic rendering plug-in for Maya. After being sidelined due to other commitments, I'm now back on it (actually there's something else I need to get out of the way first, but that's another story). As you can see, development hasn't got very far yet, it only does very simple cel-rendering at the moment, and up until yesterday it wouldn't render animations, but thanks to a dirty windows hack it now does!

It's provisionally entitled "NPR for Maya". Not very jazzy I know, but as a programmer one's motto should be "KISS". (Thanks to everyone who suggested names!)

If I was going to be pedantic this should probably go in WIP, but I think it's a lot more relevant here. I'll keep this thread updated as I go along. Once this other project's out of the way, I'll be going full time on NPR, and I hope to have a beta (actually make that alpha) ready for download by early April.

Next up: stroke building & parameterisation, surface stroke rendering and then the real beauty: natural media effects!

jschleifer
03-06-2003, 08:30 AM
Heya!

I'd definitely be interested in giving your plugin a go.. I'm working on a short as well which necessitates a NPR type render. Unfortunately, I'm running on Mac.. any chance of a mac version, or would you be willing to allow someone else to compile it for ya? :)

-jason

playmesumch00ns
03-06-2003, 08:38 AM
Argh damn Macs!;)

Now there's a problem... you're welcome to have a go jason, but it uses some windows-specific code to get the rendering done.

Do you know much about OpenGL extensions on windows and on mac os (and mac windowing api)? If you're comfortable with the code it shouldn't be too hard to transfer, but I don't think I could, especially not on the schedule I'm working to :hmm:

Jozvex
03-06-2003, 09:06 AM
Excellent work! It'll be a great pluggin!

jschleifer
03-06-2003, 06:45 PM
Not super familiar with the code, but that's the best way to GET familiar.. force yourself to get it done. :)

I'd be happy to give it a shot!

I'll email ya privately about i..
-Jason

jackkhouri
03-06-2003, 07:26 PM
can<t wait to have a try at your plug-in!

So far, I haven found any non-photorealistic rendering plug-in for Maya that works well! Esspecialy for polygone base models!!!

later jack

Houkah
03-06-2003, 08:30 PM
Cool i've been looking for good NPR renderers for Maya. Look forward to giving yours a try when you're done w/ it, or have a working version for testing. I remember a demo at siggraph that disney did on their inka shader/plugin back in 2001. It took into account which lines were closer to the camera and shaded them thicker than other lines, any plans for stuff like this?

Sammy
03-06-2003, 08:39 PM
you're test render looks great!

There are a LOT of people in the maya community looking for a decent NPR'r .... The best one I've been able to find is Patrick Jean's Tomcat.

It's strength is that it uses Artisan as a post effect rather than a facing ratio utility and ramp node.

But after some rigerous testing my pals and I have found a few problems with the way it applies the Artisan brushes to edges. Namely, it tends to evaluate detailed edges by applying many short little straight strokes which results in a less than smooth line.

It also has issues with interior polygon holes which don't render without cranking everything up to the Nth degree which blows away what we wanted for an exterior line.

Simply, we couldn't get an solid even line.

I can't see either issue with your test render which makes me VERY excited !! Know that when you release this NPR'r you'll be heralded by droves of hungry Maya users!

Keep up the great work!

:beer: ,
Sammy
rhibit@lilypad.ca
-+-

Wigaru Wiyamoto
03-06-2003, 11:33 PM
Sammy, have you tried turning off strokes for the brush you're using, that will create smooth lines.

I think the Tomcat shader is great, it just needs a little mroe work, and it wouldn't hurt if he/they finished the flippin' website (http://www.toonshade.com/)! :scream:

Good luck with the plugin playmesumch00ns, if you need a beta tester I'm a willing ginnea pig. :applause:

playmesumch00ns
03-07-2003, 07:57 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys, feedback's what I'm after!:beer:

Jason - yuppity send me a pm/e-mail and we'll talk about it. Think I should mention that at the moment it will only work for polys. I had plans to make it work for NURBS too, but unfortunately that would require a very different paradigm for a lot of it, and the old deadlines are coming up fast!

Houkah - Yes, depth-cueing on the edges will be a feature, but you'll need to turn off "Auto D-map focus" from teh camera settings to stop Maya making funky depth maps.

Sammy - My stroke rendering is done through my own system. I plan to add support for paint effects too once I get to that stage of the plugin.

What do you mean by "interior polygon holes"? Please explain as it's stuff like this I really want to know so I can make my plug-in better for users!

What features would everyone like to see from a non-photorealistic renderer? :wip:

solun
03-07-2003, 04:26 PM
I would like NPR which work properly with the edge line , I could not find the NPR work properly for maya even the TOMCAT, XMB could be very nice but have to composite the edge line.


i'm waiting for your good news

jackkhouri
03-07-2003, 04:59 PM
as a newly converted traditional animator to 3d animation, I would REALY like a non-photorealistic renderer that is mostly concentrated on the ink (the colored outlines of the objects ) than on the shading of the objects. The reason is that I usaly mix traditional animated characters with 3d characters and I want them to both have the same 'outline' look! For the coloring I usualy use a traditional Ink and paint program!

So The one feature I would like to see on a NPR is basicaly option were I can edit the tickness and style of the ink as well as a depth recognition!

Hope I<m making some sence!

anyway from wath i<ve seen so far from your test it rocks!

later jack

Houkah
03-07-2003, 11:49 PM
I don't know if you've seen the wysiwyg NPR video. I think it was something they showed at siggraph 2002. The best thing about it was that it let artists draw directly on the mesh. So you could draw what you want a stroke to look like and the system would try to use this stroke for the rest of the mesh. I don't know how possible that is but it's an amazing feature if possible. Here's a link to a pdf describing it.

http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/bjm/wysiwyg-npr-final.pdf

I believe this is a standalone package so i'm not really holding my breath. Other than that I second what jackkhouri said. Lots of controls for the ink outlines would be nice. I'm personally interested in controlling the darkness/transparency of the ink outline based on its distance from the camera.

playmesumch00ns
03-08-2003, 03:33 PM
My motivation with this is to allow an artist to create as many different effects as possible. The functions that let you draw an inked outline will also let you draw a paint-brush or stippled outline just by changing brushes and/or parameters. That includes all sorts of things such as thickness/pressure, transparency, colour (hopefully I'll get the function working where it'll pick up the colour from the mesh underneath, but I can't guarantee it'll work perfectly), effects based on depth, screen-space position and a whole load more.

With [a huge amount of] luck, I'll be able to get a simple scripting system going, so it'll open everything up to the artist; something along the lines of

thickness = smoothstep(3, 1, z);

for example, to blend the line thickness between 3 and 1 based on z-depth. This would be a lot of work, but fingers crossed...

Houkah: Yeah I've read the paper, and it's very interesting. Unfotunately it's one of the things that comes under the heading of "If only I had enough time..." on my to-do list!

Thanks all for the input!:thumbsup:

bentllama
03-08-2003, 09:34 PM
This looks very interesting. I have been looking at some NPR solutions...this proves very promising.

Please keep us updated.

And if you need people to test it for you and provide feedback, let me know ;)

Best of luck getting it done!

:beer:

Lunatique
03-09-2003, 05:36 AM
It seems NPR for most people is limited to cell-shading or similar looks.

I'd love to see more oil painting or watercolor type NPR.

Wigaru Wiyamoto
03-09-2003, 07:48 AM
True, but that's because cell-shading is the easiest medium to emulate. Also cel is the traditional medium of animation, you don't see many real oil-painted animations afterall.

With things like oil painting there's a lot more things you need to consider. Like how do the strokes interact with each other? How do they animate?

playmesumch00ns
03-10-2003, 11:05 AM
The strokes are produced by a simple brush-and-canvas model, similar to painter or deep paint. They are "stuck" to the mesh so they stay in the same place when animated. There's a couple of problems to iron out e.g. for when a mesh is deformed by a skeleton. I've a couple of solutions in mind which will probably requre a little work by the user, but should be quite easy to do!:)

tariqrauf
03-10-2003, 10:15 PM
now when are you releasing it... or do you have a test version right now??

Houkah
03-11-2003, 04:16 AM
this sounds like a great plugin, can't wait to give it a try. All the possibilities you mentioned for diff. effects are just what i've been hoping for. Let us know if you need any help testing. I'm sure plenty of people here will be willing to help you test it out. Especially me :)

playmesumch00ns
03-11-2003, 07:40 AM
It's my intention to release test versions as soon as they're ready. I hope to have a first Alpha ready for download by early April.:wip:

SPENEN
03-11-2003, 11:34 AM
Looks very cool =), perfect way to do cool cartoon renders without buying prman =D.

DimitrisLiatsos
03-11-2003, 11:51 AM
playmesumch00ns :wavey:

:bounce: I can't describe to u with what speed i clicked on thisd thread when i saw the title:bounce: ....please let us know somehow when u have the first version out...


Good luck :bounce:

AWAKE
03-11-2003, 04:28 PM
playmesumNPR!


That plugin looks pretty promising.. I've really been into that stuff lately. The deepest featureset for a toon NPR I've see was Finaltoon.

http://www.finalrender.com/products/products.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=37

It's a plugin for Max through finalrender. I saw a demo at siggraph. pretty amazing.

I did a test with the tomcat, and loved the way you could map lines imbetween materials, geometry borders and on creases. That is my main feature reqest.

my tomcat toon shader test : http://jeffreybutlet.tripod.com/



cant wait to see your plugin....

ilasolomon
03-14-2003, 12:28 AM
ME WANT IT STRONGLY! :)

Levitateme
10-20-2003, 04:01 PM
hey play, is there anyway your plugin will be able to render soemthing like this? becasue his model has lighting on the model. as of now i have no idea how to do that in maya. i can render the lines using maya vector, but other than that i have no idea how to render and have my stuff be affected by lights and beable to use textures.

http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/1775/hellboy.jpg

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