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SPyDeR WeBz
03-06-2003, 03:44 AM
Hey folks,

I've come to the conclusion that i either get better at skinning[Textureing] my models or give up trying and let someone else do it.

The reason i'm posting this thread is to get some assistance, i've tried to skin my models but i don't seem to get close to this detail.

Shown Here:
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/pixelated/iv/psorlag.jpg
Done by Per128 a great skinner in my eyes. Haven't see per around polycount no more wonder if per is ok & hyper.

Any who, the detail is fantastic and I want to be able to attempt a similar skin when I texture my models.

How do they get such detail?

When it comes to layers i'm lost, i understand it that many layers must be placed to get such detail into a skin.

Great uv mapping also plays a part doesn't it?

Any and all help is apprechiated.

I've also spent more than just 1 hour skinning, i took about 5 and i suck bad:(.

MrHappyPants
03-06-2003, 04:05 AM
5hrs skinning? alot of professionals take a couple days texturing a character.. and that doesnt include the 2-6 yrs experience they have. you should post up your work for a crit.. its hard to crit/make comments without any work to see :shrug:

dosadi
03-06-2003, 04:21 AM
What has helped me the most (and I am in no way a great texture artist) has been traditional painting and drawing practice. This will help all areas of your artistry. Make sure to spend time looking at reference and nature. Always ask yourself the question "is this believable?" even if you are doing a character with 8 arms and purple skin you have to sell that image as real to your viewer. Never settle for less than your best. Study the old masters. See how they painted skin. Its obvious that Per128 has.
On the technical side http://www.bobotheseal.com has some good tutorials. I'm sure you could search CGTalk and find tons more. Photographic overlays are helpful if they are not overused. Experiment with different blending modes. If you don't have a Wacom tablet or something similar GET ONE. A scanner is indispensable as well.
So I hope that helps. Don't get discouraged even Leonardo DaVinci sucked bad at some point.
cheers :beer:

SPyDeR WeBz
03-06-2003, 06:03 AM
Yea well i know it takes time but at some point you get to looking at that one part you skinned and are like yea i'm headed in the right direction.

But my skin is BAD check it out...

It's bad like that because i had to find out were everything was layed out, by numbering/Symbol 'ing'/naming areas.

Once that was done i went ahead and placed a dark layout then i work up to highlights and then shadows. Is this process a bad way to start a skin?

Let me know eh? i know it sux what can i do to make it better?
I used bobo's site thanx for the heads up on that it is very useful.

Thanx a bunch gents i'll be skinning all day none stop tomorrow.

So i hope i get some progress done.

Yes this is the skin of my omega model :hmm:.
sad i know.

MrHappyPants
03-06-2003, 07:17 AM
that looks pretty good! its just a matter of practice/trial and error before you start painting in the believabilty "dosadi" talks about.. great info too I totally agree with him.. draw all the time until you can capture "life" with the lines of a pencil.. then move on to shading with the pencil, keeping that look of "life" in your drawings. last learn about and add color. only at that point will you really understand how to texture. the pencil is the first tool you should be concerned with if your having trouble with modelling/texturing.

tpe
03-06-2003, 12:15 PM
One thing i think helps is to work at a much higher res than the final, that way you can paint using a very small brush, making very rough strokes, to actually put both texture and shading in by painting and when you down size all the stroke errors dissapear leaving just the texture and shading (admitedly 30 layers of a 2048 texture tends to slow photoshop to a crawl on my pc).

tpe

Jonny Bubonic
03-06-2003, 01:39 PM
Hey SPyDeR WeBz,

Your skin is not bad. You've got a way to go before you get to the standard of Kenneth Scott (who is a pretty obvious influence for your man per128), but you're going in the right direction dude. Your skin is a bit over-simplified, but it's clean and stuff appears to be in the right place :) Like dodasi said, get some traditional art skills under your belt and you'll be laughing (in a year or so ;) )

dur23
03-06-2003, 01:59 PM
aaaah per 128.

www.n-en.com

go to the tutorial section and check out his tuts.

He does his all on one layer. just painting!

puuuur is 13373r than thou!


:edit: oh and johnny bubonic. He was trying to create a skin that would fit perfectly in Q3 but replace the kinda weaker skin done by KS :) i think thats what he said....

SPyDeR WeBz
03-06-2003, 04:09 PM
Hey folks,

whoa so many replys ..hehe..

Mr.happypants and others that mentioned drawing that's what i've done in the past, i've moved on to try to understand the skinning/textureing process.

Drawing is hella fast for me i just don't understand why it isn't easy for me to handle photoshop6 and a tablet :hmm:.

Here is or was somthing i was doing it doesn't show much i got more if needed but, this was the last thing i started to draw before my classes ended.

Nothing special:
http://www.geocities.com/spyderwebz2003/TEMP/Rembrant-sketch.txt

Here's what i was attempting to create:
http://www.geocities.com/spyderwebz2003/TEMP/Rembrant.txt

Is that ok? I was going to post this in the 2D thread but it's just to explain to you all that mentioned life drawing shadows ect. showing that i have preformed and studied the process.

It's just a matter of shifting that side of me to digital drawing / painting / textureing.

TPE: i was going to ask you privately if you could explain the process you done to skin your CG game character/creature.

Also what res should i go to, to work on a 256 texture. <-'rules of the challenge you know.'
I was working in a half size plus/reg res of 384x384 of the skin image provided above.

Jonny Bubonic: Yea dude i totaly understand it takes time and i'll try all month i mean i got to be able to see some progress in a month. 'sheesh' how long does it take?.

You skinners are texturing guru's to me.

Also the texture is over-simplified, i'll try my best to consintrate on one part of the skin today and see what happends instead of jumping around like i did.

dur23: I've checked out that site before i attempted to confront you all about my current obstacle "that i must hurdel over" to be as 1337 as per128,moose,bobotheseal & many others.

The challenges i've placed onto myself is to be a 1337 modeler/skinner/animator just to be insured a future postion is a minor or major game company.

Thank you all for posting your .02 on my thread and hope to hear more from you all.

Cya
SPyDeR

Beroc-LOD
03-06-2003, 05:49 PM
Can you post the wireframe for the model you are tryin to skin, and apic of the finished model?

I kinda am tryin to learn the cutesy tricks, so maybe we can learn it together....

SPyDeR WeBz
03-06-2003, 05:56 PM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45390&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

Ok ready when you are, i'm into getting as much help and giving it as possible. Anyone else wanting to explore and learn with us can "i assume",?

Check da thread
it's near the bottum LOD...

'da pix you wanted'.

Going to start skinning :). better late then never.

Beroc-LOD
03-07-2003, 12:21 AM
Hmmmm... can you post a 256x256 textporter export for me... I need to know roughly where the model begins and ends on the map.

HyPer
03-07-2003, 12:39 AM
HEyyyy
:)
Just so you know, per128 is now happy at his new job, working for lionhead studios in england :)

Learn about hard edges, lighting theory etc, Thats what does it, and if you see something that yourrrrrealy like on pers stuff? do what he told me to do when i was learning from him, Immitate what you see, if you see something, just replecate it as best you can, See it, do it..
Its all about forms, and to portray forms you need a nice understanding of lighting theory.

SPyDeR WeBz
03-07-2003, 06:24 AM
This is a shocker.

I visited the site but it don't got nada!?!

When can we see some more stuff from you guys?

Oh and how come you got a banned on your polycount sn?

I've done Surprisingly better over the past 24 hours even thou, i took all day just to make a head skin:(.

I'll look into the lighting theory, it does control the whole texture.
How light bumps off surfaces and were shadows land ect.

Thanx hyper for posting i thought you had better things to do than to muck around my thread :). Thanx a bunch for making a guest apperance. :applause:

Byebye
:wavey: Hope to cya around more and mr.per128

Beroc-LOD is this what you mean?
naming my mesh layout?

here it is:
http://www.geocities.com/spyderwebz2003/TEMP/OmegaWeapon-SkinmeshLayout.zip

Save target as.....

Toby W. Allen
03-07-2003, 09:27 AM
The suggestions i have is work with tons of different layers and beldning modes. You can make all the shadows and that in greyscale, then apply the textures made seperatly and small details. I noticed that using various very light textures will give verious elelemnts, like the celulose effect of the body's cels can be achieved using a texture on top of the colour, blending it correctly and you'll get there.

Preactice and practice.

Toby.

Beroc-LOD
03-08-2003, 05:19 AM
cool... here is a small test... I am using the rough methods of Bobo, from http://www.bobotheseal.com. Very intersting method, basically it uses the intial colors you gave on your image and uses the Dodge and Burn tools to create effects. Use the smudge tool to diffuse areas, or create cool effects.
I was using the initial brush set in Photoshop 6.0.1, with a JamStudio Tablet.... (I finally got it to work for me.... Very, VERY fun)

The rust effects were done using a brown normal airbrush, and a spatter brush(one of the brushes in the initial set) and reddish brown. then used the burn tool to make hard light effects, and the dodge tool to finish up. hard areas were achieve using a normal hard air brush with a color which was around, finished with the dodge and burn tools.

I am not much on the smudge tool, it is pretty hard to get to work right on the tablet, but it did do a good job in certain areas.

Fine details like scratches and pivots are done with a high pressure burn tool, and followed by a high pressure dodge tool. Work it, then over work it.... kinda the same way I draw. :)

The whole thing took me about 15 mins. and was very much like drawing by hand using the tablet... a mouse isnt much different, just no pressure variation.(I usually use a soft pressure and build, takes longer, but the effect is the same)

SPyDeR WeBz
03-08-2003, 03:04 PM
Whoa 15 mins,

That's kewl that you've done the head already it's looking good. Is the head finished to you?
Don't know if your going to continue which is ok.

I have been meaning to follow the tut's on his and others sites.
I have been busy with life gf ect. right now.

Any time i can get in today will be golden cause i've been meaning to get back to skinning him. I've been working on the head of the beast.

I'll see if i can get some images up for my progress shots.

here's a render of your head skin on the model.
i didn't place it perfectly so it looks slightly off.

Stroker
03-08-2003, 05:56 PM
You can find some excellant mini-tutorials on painting/pixel-pushing here:
http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/632

I'm liking your progress.

Beroc-LOD
03-09-2003, 12:39 AM
cool... it is hard to do the skin without knowing exactly what goes where though... I will do some other things on it... if you can though, turn the mip map filtering off on the material, it is bluring it slightly, or is it just what I did... ;)

SPyDeR WeBz
03-09-2003, 01:36 AM
mip map? i took a look and didn't see it 'heh' were you kidding? I had to resize the image so it made some blurring.

Dude i'm not exactly sure if i can send you the model it's self.

Because i don't know if that would effect the challenge from my side. <- Like if i get disqualified and such.

I'd be more than happy to send ya the model to skin it up.

I have no problem their.

As soon as i find out if i can, i will...

Thank you again dude for your help:thumbsup:
And thanx for explaining the process of your skin.

stroker: Those will come in handy for many people thanx.=)

Beroc-LOD
03-09-2003, 06:52 AM
SW-
Heh, not asking for the mesh, just stating a point... and, can you post a pic without the map redone....

Oh, the attachment is what I mean by Mip Mapping, in Max they call it filtering, which dulls the image out so that slightly lower dpi images dont look pixelated in renders.

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