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Diabolos
03-18-2007, 03:57 PM
Ok, I put together some screen shots, I will be using for reference. I have chosen the black suit of armor version (with beard ohhh nnnooo - what am I thinking). Might as well hit all of the extremes at once - push my own limits.

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/King-Arthur.jpg

Diabolos
03-18-2007, 10:44 PM
...............as Arthur grasped Excalibur and released it from its stone prison to be King.

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/eXcalibur.jpg

AndreKling
03-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Wow, very nice start, looks really promissing, and the model you choose is awesome. Lets see that armor :D hv u thought about how you gonna do the chain mail already? are you going to model each ring, or are you planning to do it with texture normals and alpha?
andre

Diabolos
03-18-2007, 11:55 PM
thank you Andre,

I would like to try this method (link below), but I am not sure where to start and I do not understand his wireframe for the set-up. So if anyone looking through my thread wants to help me out that would be great (I just need a screen shot of the shader node set-up - or any tips)............

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=219323&page=1&pp=15

*EDIT 19.03.2007* - I just found this: (it is still going to take me a while to understand this) Oh man, I see a lot of experimenting in my near future........

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=2915&page=2

A while back one of my first models (please do not laugh), I tried "real chain" mail, but it would not render (originally the chainmail went all the way around the back of the helmet, I removed most of it just to get the image seen below to render) - that is before I knew about instancing, clean meshes, and history though (I think each ring had 20 subdivisions along both axis [axi - what is the plural form]).

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/SkullHelm.jpg

SantoAnderson
03-19-2007, 04:00 AM
Sweet dude. When I saw your topic's subject line I half expected to see Graham Chapman. ;) Looks great so far. Nice work.

Diabolos
03-19-2007, 01:01 PM
Sweet dude.

Thank you

When I saw your topic's subject line I half expected to see Graham Chapman. ;) Looks great so far. Nice work.

???? ahhh you were thinking Monty Python and the holy grail with also Terry Gilliam, and Terry Jones. It seems Terry was a popular Brit name.

Might make a good challenge idea for the future: Hardcore Modeling Challenge XX - Monty Python - you could either model the actors or the crazy illustrated backdrop (inbetweens).

D,

Diabolos
03-19-2007, 02:12 PM
Ok, I thought there was something wrong with the pixel aspect ratio, but this guy just has a longer skinnier face. Here is my model sheet.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/Profile.jpg

KrakenCMT
03-19-2007, 06:20 PM
One of my very favorite films... I think if Nicol Williamson (Merlin) was on the list, I would have picked him.

You've got a good direction planned. Maybe a bit challenging with the beard (at least for me it would be), but that's why they call this a challenge! :)

Diabolos
03-20-2007, 10:29 PM
Ok, movie lovers, I have been sculpting away - I left off the ear, as I need to redo it (looked like something other than an ear).Looks like I am going to have to follow the ear tut on highend3d. Crits are definitely welcome....needed.....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/headBegin.jpg

AndreKling
03-20-2007, 11:31 PM
Its looking great man, keep it up, the nose is spot on... How u gonna do the beard? are u going to model it or do u plan to use a fur plugging?

Diabolos
03-20-2007, 11:56 PM
Its looking great man, keep it up, the nose is spot on... How u gonna do the beard? are u going to model it or do u plan to use a fur plugging?

ooohhhh, I am going to be trying paintFX first, but I want to try mayaFur. Everyone seems to be talking about these baldMaps and how good fur is, but I have to be honest and have to say that I have no clue. How about you? Maximus seems to have a bit of facial growth going on there as well. I think we are somehow in the same boat...............

D,

AndreKling
03-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Yeah, but maximus beard is so small that could be made with a texture and a bump map... but since my main goal is to learn the software i may try the fur out ( besides i hv to learn it to use in the wolf fur ), so if you know any good tutorial for the hair and hur plugging would be nice.
Let me ask you, do you model it in polygons or in subDs? what are the main differences? in order to export to mudbox or zbrush, is better polys or subds?
Andre

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Yeah, but maximus beard is so small that could be made with a texture and a bump map... but since my main goal is to learn the software i may try the fur out ( besides i hv to learn it to use in the wolf fur ), so if you know any good tutorial for the hair and hur plugging would be nice.


I'll let you know as soon as I find one.


Let me ask you, do you model it in polygons or in subDs? what are the main differences? in order to export to mudbox or zbrush, is better polys or subds?
Andre

I am a total polyGuy, it's my weakness (fall back on being self taught). Unfortunately I only have Maya so my workflow totally be done in Maya. I think zBrush handles poly's and suB's equally, if you were using Muddbox or Modo - I would say subD's are the way to go (but I have no experience in that only what I have read in other forums).

D,

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 01:29 AM
here is a screen shot of the steps I have taken. when Roberto makes topology a criteria, then I'm out of the next challenges :op

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/headBreakdown.jpg

MisterE
03-21-2007, 01:36 AM
Not bad looking so far! Will be interested in seeing how far you can take this w/o using Mudbox or Zbrush. Good luck :thumbsup:

SantoAnderson
03-21-2007, 03:51 AM
Hey, looks awesome! I really like the eyebrow definition and the mouth. That profile reference shot seems a little high, so your ears might appear a bit low. Lookin' great.

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 09:48 AM
Just had a few minutes before I start my day........some of these images gave my a good chuckle. You know when you are clicking madly away on that screen capture button - not all of those images are usable ;op

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/bloopers.jpg

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 12:31 PM
I am not sure guys, what do you think? I am starting to second guess myself. I fixed the cheeks and the brow during my lunch break - the wire contours follow the image pretty closely (IMO). It is just not dead on somehow - my colleagues says it looks like him. I dunno. Maybe the pixel ratio from the screen shot is a bit off?


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/KA_screen03.jpg

Doch
03-21-2007, 12:56 PM
It's shaping up nicely Diabolos .
when I modeling I find it hard to tell if the model is looks like the reference or not
cus it got no hair and etc....
so I cover parts of my model like the eyes or mouth with my hand and look if
the other part is resembel to the ref . it is helpfull to refine some parts that
needs the fine tuning .

whoknows
03-21-2007, 01:04 PM
Hey Diabolos,

Are u planning on doing detail work in ZB or MB? coz if u r u shud watch out not to make a mesh thats too dense, can save u time?

But otherwise its all looking good

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 01:42 PM
Hey Diabolos,

Are u planning on doing detail work in ZB or MB? coz if u r u shud watch out not to make a mesh thats too dense, can save u time?

But otherwise its all looking good

ya, I am trying to watch that, but it's so easy to let maya smooth everything out for me. I only have maya to work with so my whole workflow will be done just with maya (start to finish). Maybe that will give me some charity/sympathy points from you guys. I'll have to make some cool @$$ armor to win you guys over. Its already a lost cause for me with some of the names showing up :o) - but I am going to do my best.

I relooped my low res base mesh and will post the two models next to each other - they are starting to look the same, so maybe I am just being too critical - have to upload when the boss is not lookin'

D,

whoknows
03-21-2007, 02:02 PM
haha, I'm kinda feeling the same way. This is the first challenge I've ever entered, and I've only started working on it today! so I think my chances are slim as far as winning.

But I'm sure it will be a learning experience!!

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 03:09 PM
left one is new and the right one is old - i think the original one (right) is better.....

what do you guys think?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/KA_screen04.jpg

gaiXyn
03-21-2007, 03:23 PM
the one on the right is muchBetter ( looks more like him, eyes, nose, lips ) I see a few tweaks here and there that would help bring it more to his likeNess, but I'm @ work now otherWise I would of done a paint over to show you what I mean.....since I'm better explaining w/ pictures than w/ words....

but it's coming along very nicely man.....:thumbsup: ....veryGood topology w/ goodSpeed too!!


ltr-

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 03:38 PM
the one on the right is muchBetter ( looks more like him, eyes, nose, lips ) I see a few tweaks here and there that would help bring it more to his likeNess, but I'm @ work now otherWise I would of done a paint over to show you what I mean.....since I'm better explaining w/ pictures than w/ words....

but it's coming along very nicely man.....:thumbsup: ....veryGood topology w/ goodSpeed too!!


ltr-

thank you

maybe when you get some time later <ppppplease>, I am taking a break from the face and will start on the armor tonight, but alas, I too am at work and I should really concentrate at the task at hand. It's so hard when the hobby projects outscales the work ones in the interesting/fun/learning factor.

KrakenCMT
03-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Nice so far! I think the right one is closer in the nose, but the eyes are too big and the overall structure reminds me more of Peter Weller (Robocop). I think the cheek planes are more straight and not so angular. Also the underside of his eye is too sharp in your model. On is face the "bags" droop down a bit further. In my paintover they are a bit too pronounced, but I think the shape is a bit closer. I hope this helps a bit!

sub7
03-21-2007, 05:17 PM
das rechte ist auf jedenfall besser was meinst du mit relooped? ist das andere nen komplett neues mesh? hab mal die markanten merkmale reingezeichnet meiste wurde schon erwähnt das kinn vielleicht noch ein bisschen hoch um platz für den bart zu haben den übergang von nase zur stirn würd ich auch abrunden der rechte winkel stört

gruss aus stuttgart

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 06:24 PM
KrakenCMT - Thank you, you are right I will smooth that region out and sculpt out the tear sacks a bit more.

sub7 - ich glaube wir sollen auf Englisch bleiben, die mogen es nicht wenn man spricht eine andere sprache.....yes, by relooped, I went a different direction with the loops. Maya has a cool insert edge tool for poly's and you can slide it wherever you need it (like splines for nurbs) and it goes really fast. I like pushing and pulling verts (but it shows in the base mesh). Thank you for the tips - I will also try to work those out next.

Here is a hand sketch (very quick) of the rough shape of his armor. So I can start playing with the proportions. I am scooting the peas (the head) under the mash potatos, and starting in on the steak (the armor).

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/KA_armor.jpg

MisterE
03-21-2007, 08:28 PM
I see a problem in your front reference image. It looks like the aspect ratio is off and it should be more wide. This is affecting the overall shape and form of your model, which is not good at all. Look at this image, in comparison:
http://www.port.hu/picture/instance_2/30410_2.jpg

Lastly, his eyes look too bug-eyed, too big!

SantoAnderson
03-21-2007, 10:55 PM
^^

Agreed. Whenever modeling a head, especially from references, I try and avoid using pics where the character's eyes are wide open, where it's so much of a close up that it makes his/her face look extremely long, or where their facial expression is far from neutral. Of course it can be hard looking for refs from a 25 year old movie.

When a problem comes along, you must cap it. Cap it good.

Diabolos
03-21-2007, 11:38 PM
Thanks guys, I think I am going to go and take some screen shots on my other computer with a 4:3 monitor. I figured there was something weird with the image - hopefully, I can just scale the head down the y axis.

here is an armor test - left side maya software render | right side maya mental ray. just basic set up right now, no scratches, rivets, belts - those will be added later. the texture was only painted in 5 minutes - so its just a test.....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/armorTest.jpg

sub7
03-22-2007, 07:26 AM
armor looks very promising can you post an wire? keep it up

Diabolos
03-22-2007, 09:18 AM
Guten Morgen,

Here is a screenshot from my wires and workflow. I am going to work on some of the border edges to make sure the stay nice and sharp. Also the "tubing" parts need to be scaled down (refering to around the arms and the tail).

+edit+ the base geo was a cube just as in my head wire shot - dunno, I make everything out of a cube - is that weird.........

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/KA_screen05.jpg

AndreKling
03-22-2007, 09:27 AM
I always thought that the name, box modelling originated from there, i also tend to start everything from a box, or cube.
the armor is looking cool, are you going to model the character body under the armor, or is it ok to just model the armor? Whats the best way to connect the 2 sides of the armor, connect and weld all the vertices one by one? Keep it up.
Andre

Diabolos
03-22-2007, 09:42 AM
the armor is looking cool, are you going to model the character body under the armor, or is it ok to just model the armor?

Yes, I will model the body under neath, a requirement from our fearless leader - Roberto. :sad:

Whats the best way to connect the 2 sides of the armor, connect and weld all the vertices one by one?Andre

Two ways:
1) use "Mirror geometry" under the mesh menu, just choose the right axis. Note: I turn the "merge with original" to OFF, as it pinches the vertices. And then I select the entire seam of vertices (both sides) and choose "Merge" this welds all of the vertices.

2) you can duplicate special and put a -1 in the scale x box and you will have a reversed copy. then weld the vertices after using polyCombine.

I used option one for the torso and option 2 for the leg plates (without polyCombine of course)

ChrisCorr
03-22-2007, 12:55 PM
Greetings,

I'm sure you thought of this, but as a suggestion. Armor that has seen battle isn't really all neat and perfect, it probably has dents and scratches and all kinds of stuff going on on the surface. Keep up the nice work.

KrakenCMT
03-22-2007, 01:27 PM
The armor is looking real nice!

Just a thought for when you render this guy... Remember the small amount green lighting they used in the movie? It really made for a fantastic feel to it. I just remember seeing the green reflecting in the armor and thinking it added a mystical quality to the whole look.

gaiXyn
03-22-2007, 01:30 PM
armor looks very promising
I second that, goodWork man!! :thumbsup:

dunno, I make everything out of a cube - is that weird.........
nope...yourModel tends to turnOut cleaner in theEnd....

ltr

Doch
03-22-2007, 03:01 PM
me too , looks great Diabolos .
and a nice shiny armor you got there .
just a funny question - will you make him some cloth as well cus they don't put an armor
on thier naked body and go to war :).

Diabolos
03-22-2007, 03:01 PM
The armor is looking real nice!

Just a thought for when you render this guy... Remember the small amount green lighting they used in the movie? It really made for a fantastic feel to it. I just remember seeing the green reflecting in the armor and thinking it added a mystical quality to the whole look.

Thanks - and thanks for the reminder, I haven't forgotten, if you look on my first page at Excalibur - you will see a small hint of green light on the hilt next to the blade guard :)

Binder - thanks man.


no updates until tonight - just got a pile o' ******* work on my desk.

Diabolos
03-22-2007, 03:07 PM
me too , looks great Diabolos .
and a nice shiny armor you got there .
just a funny question - will you make him some cloth as well cus they don't put an armor
on thier naked body and go to war :).

LOL - yes, he will have:


head - chainmail coif
torso - padded / quilted jacket (see blooper reel post - bottom corner)
waist - leather reinforced chainmail (the chainmail with the leather straps going through the links)
legs - black cloth pants
hands - black leather gloves

gaiXyn
03-22-2007, 03:11 PM
no updates until tonight - just got a pile o' ******* work on my desk.

LOL....I can totally relate brother.....nights are the onlyTime I can get anyModeling done....

ltr-

Diabolos
03-22-2007, 10:31 PM
LOL - still that 5 minute texture applied, but with an HDRI pass.

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/KA_armor01.jpg

SOE digital
03-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Really nice textures mate!
Love it. Love the gritty look of the armour. :thumbsup:

Diabolos
03-23-2007, 09:02 AM
Thanks man! I can't wait to add all of the little details (belts, rivets, studs) over the weekend.


D,

Vicktorious
03-23-2007, 05:41 PM
Funny how the little five minute test textures can nearly do the same thing as if you spent hours on it eh?

gaiXyn
03-27-2007, 05:43 PM
umm...?...upDate plz....:)


ltr-

Diabolos
03-28-2007, 08:12 AM
I'm workin' on his freakin' ****** god**** ******** ****** head

scheisse, I hate heads and fingers - to draw or model.

*edit* - and I have been working on "Alien Pet" (please see my gallery) for another project :op

:twisted: D,

Diabolos
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
Ok, I have tried every kind of solver, but no go - at least for me anyway - so I am doing it by HAND (more brownie points I hope).

D,

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m34/diabolosgermany/chainmailTest01.jpg

KrakenCMT
03-28-2007, 10:26 PM
Ouch! By hand? You'll probably be done with it by the time you read this...

I don't know much about Maya, but I know in Lightwave you can use a low mesh cage for calculating cloth-like motion effects and then link another mesh to it such as, say, a chain mail armor. Maybe Maya has something like that.

I know that trying to calulate the full linked armor has got to be taxing on any system, but doing a low mesh cage shaped like the armor, then linking the actual chainmail to it so it uses the motion sounds like something Maya should be able to do. I really don't know though. One of these days, Ill learn Maya too. Too many cool things about it!

But the chainmail looks good so far!

Diabolos
03-28-2007, 10:46 PM
is all about skillz, which I do not have yet. i have had some good suggestions about using a wrap deformer (letting cloth simulate over the head and use that info as a wrap deformer for a grouped sheet of links), but all of my verts went crazy and I gave up.

Done, nah I have to give it a break tonight, I wanted to start on my seventh head LOL, but I need to get away from this laptop.

D,

Diabolos
04-05-2007, 03:48 PM
Last and final try, if I dont get this one - I'm out. It's looking allright - there are some problem zones; eyes a tad to small and the ear is nearly not developed enough, but I feel that the general bone structure is there.........somewhere in there anyway.


D,

myklee
04-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Wow man, what you have here looks awesome. How did you make that five minute texture look so good? Is it just some photoshop layers?

RobertoOrtiz
04-25-2007, 07:27 PM
Roberto's Bullhorn: One week to go! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=489707)

Just an FYI.

-R

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