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View Full Version : Which Digital Film Cameras is-the-best ?

Kyo007
03-17-2007, 01:12 PM
Viper FilmStream Camera ??
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5695/vipermp2.th.jpg


Viper Features

• 9.2 million pixel CCD sensor for each color

channel

• Captures raw data directly from CCDs

without video-style signal processing

• Unique 4:4:4 RGB dual link FilmStream

output

• Native 16:9 or 2.37:1 aspect ratios without

vertical resolution loss using Dynamic Pixel

Management™ technology (HD-DPM)

• 12-bit linear A-D conversion, mapped to

10-bit logarithmic signals for downstream

processing

• Patented Frame Transfer (FT) CCD technology

• Mechanical shutter guarantees no vertical

smear

• Electronic viewfinder focus assist tools:

crawler and zoom

• Standard B4 lens mount for popular digital

cinematography prime and zoom lenses

• Multiple format support:

— 1080p @ 23.98, 24, 25, and 29.97 frames

per second (fps)

— 1080i @ 50 and 59.94 Hz

— 720p @ 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 50, and

59.94 fps

• Multiple field recording options:

— Solid-state, on-camera Venom recorder

for cable-free operation

— High-capacity field recorder with

exchangeable disk packs

— Third-party field recording support

• Full range of third-party accessories,

including extension viewfinder tubes, matte

boxes, filters, color viewfinders, additional

power taps, Steadicam low/high mounts,

and more

Venom Features

• Solid-state recorder

• Dockable, compact, rugged design

• Portable, easy-to-mount

• Generous recording capacity

— 10 minutes in FilmStream mode

— 18 minutes in 4:2:2 HD mode

• Compatible with Grass Valley Viper

FilmStream Digital Cinematography camera

• Compatible with Grass Valley

LDK 6000 mk II WorldCam camera

• Standard Bluetooth interface

• Can output to a variety of third-party

devices





Viper Specifications



FilmStream Camera Head VIPER – Model No. LDK 7500

General

Power DC 12V; 44W incl. 2" viewfinder & FilmStream/HD Compact adapter

Temperature range Operating: -20°C to 40°C (-4°F to 104°F); Storage: -20°C to 60°C (-4°F to 140°F)

Weight 4.3 kg (9.6 lbs.) incl. 2" viewfinder and FilmStream/CompactHD adapter

Dimensions 214 (H) x 125 (W) x 241 mm (L) with FilmStream/CompactHD adapter

Camera

Optical system F1.4 prism

Optical filter wheels 2x motorized wheels

Optical filters on first wheel Clear, 1/4 ND, 1/16 ND, 1/64 ND

Optical filters on second wheel Clear, four-point star, six-point star, soft focus

Pickup device 3 x 2/3" 16:9 HD-DPM+ CCDs

Picture elements 9.2 million pixels 1920 (H) x 4320 (V) effective

Smear No vertical smear

Digital quantization 12-bit A/D

S/N ratio in Y signal 54 dB typical (video mode, 1080i/59.94)

Shutter Variable shutter 90° to 310°; electronic exposure down to 1/200s

Mode HD Video – YCrCb HD Video – RGB HD Stream FilmStream

Video outputs Single HD SDI Dual HD SDI Single HD SDI Dual HD SDI

Video sampling 4:2:2 4:4:4 4:2:2 10-bit log 4:4:4 10-bit log

Video processing Full video processing

>22 bits

Full video processing

>22 bits

Limited processing (white

balance only)

Not active

Color balance for video outputs 3200K, 4700K, 5600K,

7200K, auto white

3200K, 4700K, 5600K,

7200K, auto white

3200K, 5600K, native

(no correction)

No correction

Color balance for viewing channel 3200K, 4700K, 5600K,

7200K, auto white

3200K, 4700K, 5600K,

7200K, auto white

3200K,5600K, native 3200K, 4700K, 5600K,

7200K, native

Aspect ratio 16:9 and 2.37:1 16:9 and 2.37:1 16:9 and 2.37:1 16:9 and 2.37:1

Sensitivity 2000 lux (186 ft. cd) at F9.0

(typical, 1080p24 video mode)

2000 lux (186 ft. cd) at F9.0

(typical, 1080p24 video mode)

Effective ASA 320 in 16:9

and ASA 400 in 2.37:1

Effective ASA 320 in 16:9

and ASA 400 in 2.37:1

Gain -3 dB to 12 dB in 3 dB steps -3 dB to 12 dB in 3 dB steps -6 dB to +12 dB in 6 dB

steps in the viewing channel

-6 dB to +12 dB in 6 dB

steps in the viewing channel

Temporal Frequencies

720p (with 2:3 frame repeat to

give 50/59.94 Hz)

23.98 fps

720p (with 2x frame repeat to

give 50/59.94 Hz)

25/29.97 fps

720p 50/59.94 fps

1080p (with 3:2 pull down to give

1080i 59.94 Hz)

23.98 fps

1080p (segmented frame output) 23.98/24/25/29.97 fps

1080i 50/59.94 Hz

Camera Connectors

Front microphone input XLR-3 female, balanced +48V selectable

Lens connector 12-pin

Control input 9-pin RS-232C compatible

Viewfinder connector 20-pin

Supplied accessories Operator’s manual




Red One ??

http://red.com/images/spec/solo_sideview.jpg

Sensor:

12 Megapixel Mysterium™

Physical Size:

24.4mm x 13.7mm (Super35mm)

Active Pixel Array:

4520 (h) x 2540 (v)

Full Pixel Array:

4900 (h) x 2580 (v)

Dynamic Range:

> 66dB

Depth of Field:

Equivalent to 35mm Cine Lenses (S16mm with windowed sensor)

Acquisition Formats:

2540p (4k+)
4K
2K
1080p
1080i
720p

Frame Rates:

Variable

1 – 60 fps2540p, 4K, 2K,1080p, 720p

1 – 120 fps2K, 720p (windowed sensor)

50 / 59.94fps1080i, 720p

RAW output:

High speed serial interface

1 - 60 fps2540p, 4K

1 - 120 fps2K (windowed sensor)

Video Outputs:

Single and dual link HD-SDI

2K4:4:4 RGB

1080p4:4:4 RGB

1080p4:2:2

1080i4:2:2

720p4:2:2

Digital Media Magazine:

FireWire 800/400, USB-2 and e-SATA interfaces

RED-DRIVE™hard disk drive (40 – 160GB)

REDFLASH™flash memory (32 – 128GB)

REDCODE codec:

Variable Bit Rate, Wavelet

RAW

10 bit4:2:21080p / 1080i / 720p

10 bit log4:4:42K

Audio:

4 channel uncompressed, 16 / 24 bit, 48KHz

Monitor:

Flex mounted High Resolution LCD, High Resolution color EVF (optional)

Weight:

Around 8lbs (without lens, battery and external viewfinder)

Construction:

Aluminum alloy
beenyweenies
03-18-2007, 08:58 AM
One would have to argue that the Viper is better, given that it's the only one even on the market. ;)

The Red will have it's place in digital cinema, that much is a given. It's price point will make it very attractive to indie-medium budget productions, but the viper is battle tested to some degree, and has a proven track record of operation. That is something major studios will not overlook. For now, workflow, stability and support are driving factors when it comes to high-end cameras like this.

So the real question is - better for who?
Kyo007
03-19-2007, 06:12 PM
Red can work 4K and it's 12 megapixel, Viper 9.2 megapixel. Red One can use 35mm Cine Lens. Red is cheap than viper. Why is the viper better ?

Red One (http://red.com/techspecs.htm)

Viper FilmStream (http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/cameras/viper/)
beenyweenies
03-20-2007, 07:07 AM
Red can work 4K and it's 12 megapixel, Viper 9.2 megapixel. Red One can use 35mm Cine Lens. Red is cheap than viper. Why is the viper better ?


1. Because in the real world, reliability is the #1 consideration. Without one single hour in production, the Red is far behind the Viper in terms of real world use. Many flaws could emerge.

2. For any production, adopting new workflows can be risky and expensive. Look how long it's taken the industry to fully embrace HD for cryin' out loud. Don't forget that the Red system involves a new codec that *may* be buggy, faulty, or finicky. Once the Red codec has a few large productions under its belt it may be more widely adopted.

3. Using specs alone to compare cameras is a bad idea - when comparing the results of the HVX200 to other HD prosumer cameras, the specs told one story while the end results were pretty dramatically different. It proved to me that specs can be deceiving.


I am looking forward to the Red's release and I think it's going to revolutionize filmmaking, but when you get down to it the Red isn't even out yet so the Viper wins, hands down.
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