Contact to Paul Everett????

[helluvapixel]

I never understood this... didn't Per and Paul have Thirdparty together??? And why cannot Per do your plugin updating for you since he supports StormTracer?

I do not know the background or specifics of the Paul/Per conglomeration, that's why I'm asking.

[Continuumx]

Do a search and you will find a thread that Paul responded to in this question some time ago when R10 was released.

[leadnut]

well... i did that long stupid title in my email and i havent recieved my update either-come on guys your professionals,please act like ones.

[tapaul]

As Ive already said, I can not run a free plugin/ serial update service for the rest of my life.

A: I no longer sell plugins.
B: I am not obligated to anyone to provide serial updates.
C: I dont cope well with these crusade posts.

I will go through the remaining, existing requests ASAP, and do another act of good will, then this particular light will go out.


I do hope you all can understand this.

Thanks everyone.

Paul Everett

[maharadjah]

As a stormtarcer owner who didnt upgrade to R10 yet , i feel almost swindled , i paid for this plugin but once i'll upgrade i wont be able to use it . even it's run perfectly with the new release.

you say that you wont run a "free" serial update fro the rest of your life .. for me until the plug works fine with the new releases it would be normal to upgrade serials .. come on, first it's not free as we already paid for the plug .. and then i really think it'wont be such an hassle to make a new serial .. it's not hand carved , is it ? for the upgrade of the plugin itself i agree .. you moved to something else ok .. but for a simple serial ...

that is just my point of view ..

so many plugs i bought that are just given up few month later .. that why i dont buy plugs anymore .. stick to the app ..

sorry for my broke english

[Shademaster]

As a stormtarcer owner who didnt upgrade to R10 yet , i feel almost swindled , i paid for this plugin but once i'll upgrade i wont be able to use it . even it's run perfectly with the new release.

you say that you wont run a "free" serial update fro the rest of your life .. for me until the plug works fine with the new releases it would be normal to upgrade serials .. come on, first it's not free as we already paid for the plug .. and then i really think it'wont be such an hassle to make a new serial .. it's not hand carved , is it ? for the upgrade of the plugin itself i agree .. you moved to something else ok .. but for a simple serial ...

that is just my point of view ..

so many plugs i bought that are just given up few month later .. that why i dont buy plugs anymore .. stick to the app ..

sorry for my broke english

That is why I did not upgrade yet, too many plugins become obsolete and I REALLY need them. So far 9,6 is still a dream to work with and offers me more than I need right now.

Very sorry to hear you stopped developing all together Paul :(, your plugins were awesome (even though I am not a customer I know what they can do). Best of luck in your future endevours!

[ooo]

Very sorry to hear you stopped developing all together Paul :(, your plugins were awesome (even though I am not a customer I know what they can do). Best of luck in your future endevours!

I don't think he stopped developing. He's working for Maxon now. So fortunately his talent is still working for us!

[helluvapixel]

B: I am not obligated to anyone to provide serial updates.

That makes completely no sense, and as a customer further makes me even angrier at the the cavalier attitude that not only is shown with previous unanswered emails but here in the forum as well. However, what I still don't understand is that was the ST not a joint effort of Thirdparty (Per and Paul) and as such why cannot customers return to Per for continued ST support?

It's rather unacceptable to pick up and pack up and leave people stranded. Are these former customers expected to buy a full new license when/if ST is released as a new version?

As far as coping with a 'crusader' post of course you don't like them because it raises a huge red flag and puts you on spot to answer questions people have been asking or denied and in turn threads like this are fortunately for people as a public service to get answers and resolution.

[Per-Anders]

I never understood this... didn't Per and Paul have Thirdparty together??? And why cannot Per do your plugin updating for you since he supports StormTracer?

I do not know the background or specifics of the Paul/Per conglomeration, that's why I'm asking.

The Third Party was always just a nom de plume, it was never a business. We programmed plugins together, this is not the same as running shop together. The two shops were seperate businesses with seperate filing systems and seperate databases and seperate customers, they're also in seperate countries and governed by seperate Business and Tax laws.

I am sorry, but I cannot verify any of Pauls customers nor make serials for them for any plugins, they have Pauls version of the plugins and Pauls plugins, and my customers have mine. This is all I can do, I am not in a business relationship with Pauls customers, only with my own.

Both myself and Paul are currently working for Maxon, the Tax laws in the US allow me to continue running the ThirdParty website, forum and my shop and plugins as a courtesy to existing users and it allows me to continue to maintain a business relationship with my existing customers, for Paul unfortunately none of this is feasible, German business and Tax law is very different and somewhat draconian in nature.

The choice is simple, either I can continue for free to support only my customers, or there can be no support at all for anyone. Please before going off on a crusade of antagonism consider the fact you have recieved numerous free updates and free serial upgrades for several versions of C4D including re-engineering to take into account changes in the Cinema SDK and platforms used, which takes a great deal of time and effort to do, when you purchased the plugin it was stated very explicitely that it was tied to the version of Cinema that you bought it for, we have upgraded the serials and software gratis.

[v-empire]

Well, it seems quite strange to me.

I wouldn´t have a problem paying a "relocation" fee or whatever you might call it
to Paul Everett, for getting a simple new serial.

That´s the way other companies do it, if they feel doing this for free isn´t suitable.

Beeing completly cut off from the plugin leaves a stale taste in my mouth.

But who knows, maybe they develop a stormtracer surogate for C4d 10.1 at maxon right now and therefore don´t give good old stormtracer any more chances.

(Hope this won´t trigger the 10.1 thread again)

Regards
Holger

[helluvapixel]

, when you purchased the plugin it was stated very explicitely that it was tied to the version of Cinema that you bought it for, we have upgraded the serials and software gratis.

Per, first off thank you for taking the time to thouroughly explain the situation. However, in general plugins are tied to the serial of Cinema as a course of anti-piracy which we all understand but unfortunately I don't know if every expected or accepted the fact that the plugins are tied ONLY to that version of Cinema. I suppose what I'm saying is people expect the plugins to adapt and upgrade as the serials may change with Cinema.

Anyways, you've laid it out well enough that unless people get in contact with Paul... ST for his customers is locked to 9.x forever.

[Sneaker]

IBoth myself and Paul are currently working for Maxon, the Tax laws in the US allow me to continue running the ThirdParty website, forum and my shop and plugins as a courtesy to existing users and it allows me to continue to maintain a business relationship with my existing customers, for Paul unfortunately none of this is feasible, German business and Tax law is very different and somewhat draconian in nature.


Tax or law won't be a problem in Germany. Maybe his contract with Maxon has a clause that
he is forced to work exclusively for them.

I'm one of those dumb customers that has been burned several times. I bought some Bhodinut and almost all plugins from Paul. I stopped buying expensive plugins (>$75)
when MeshSurgery was disconitued. Too bad for Renato and Cris and some others.
I got a new serial from Paul for Storm, but it's not working for some reason.
We tried to fix that but after several mails he didn't respond anymore.
I think he is too busy and has no easy solution for that problem, I'll stay tuned
and hope to get valid Storm serial one day.

-Michael

[helluvapixel]

I'm one of those dumb customers that has been burned several times. I bought some Bhodinut and almost all plugins from Paul. I stopped buying expensive plugins (>$75)
when MeshSurgery was disconitued. Too bad for Renato and Cris and some others.

Like you.. me too. No idea what the solution is, however the plugin community for LW in my recolletion didn't have the same angst. Not sure if that's just because Newtek hasn't done major changes to their SDK over the last few years or what.

My sympathy to those dealing with drop-out plugin vendors, it's hard to deal with but you can always use your old versions.

[chromecity]

Hmmm. I've bought lots of stuff from Paul back in the day (I still use DPack and 10Comms even now - and would never want to be without Picture Spotter - I'm real glad that one works in R10). Paul always went the extra mile back then to iron out what he could, even when he had lost some of the source to that stuff. I did feel the pain along with everyone else when MeshSurgery never made it to R9.x. In that case, the SDK changes prohibited it from working without being retooled, so it was more than just a serial number issue.

But what I see at the root of the serial number issue here is a limited design. There should be some component of the serial number which does not change from version to version. Something which uniquely represents a particular user's investment in C4D - regardless of the version. Maybe the first n-digits. Much like how only the first 11 digits are currently submitted to plugin developers for registration and so forth. That way, there would be no need to force every plugin developer to offer updated serials for every plugin whenever Maxon decides to update the serials. Some plugins are affected by certain SDK changes, while others are not. I don't see any reason to blatantly invalidate all of them wholesale whenever the SDK changes significantly. I think Maxon should consider reworking the serial scheme a bit. But of course, that would only fix things from that point onward.

BTW, LW is a different story altogether, because of the dongle or Toaster card, etc - some piece of uniquely identifiable hardware. C4D does not have that.

[grundgedanke]

Even if I understand the problem as I had this plugin problem too several times I don't understand some of the reactions. I mean you pay for a plugin at the moment you buy it at least with the program version which is up to date then.

If the company decides to discontinue the product or if the "shop" closes, how can you say that you fint that unacceptable? I mean that's normal business. If I close my shop then this is it. We don`t have to like it but that's all.

Just my 2 cents.

[Erik Heyninck]

I *never* had any problem with Paul. Not only for getting new serials, but even less for personal advice in using his plugins.
I also live in Europe and, indeed, tax laws here are quite restictive. Working for someone and at the meantime running an independant business (ANY selling is considered to be an independant business) is either not allowed or extremely expensive. Even to such a degree that you work to pay your income tax. Not even for an extra for yourself.

I know this is no solution to your problem, but it is very probable it hurts him a lot, being so limited in his talent by stupid taxlaws etc.

So next time buy from Per.

Perhaps though something could be organised? An upgrade fee or so, like changing platforms for Cinema is. Get a new serial from Per at a reduced price?

[Shademaster]

Thank you for the explanation Per. I didn't knew paul started working for Maxon! This is great news right? At least he is not fed-up with the cinema4d community like darf was at a certain point.

Phew!

[Ernest Burden]

in Europe...tax laws here are quite restictive. Working for someone and at the meantime running an independant business (ANY selling is considered to be an independant business) is either not allowed or extremely expensive.

So next time buy from Per.


Or run your business in the United States.

I'm not sure I understand the underlying social benefit of strongly discouraging entrepeneurship in your citizens, but there must be a heartfelt reason for for such anti-liberty laws.

In the US I can have a job and also own as many businesses as I want. If there is a conflict-of-interest between the job and other work that is a matter between me and the employer, not the tax code.

I think this orphaning of plugins reveals the nasty side of licencing 'protections' like serials, dongles and the like. Not only do these schemes only act to protect the interests of the producer, they actually harm the consumer by adding cumbersome usage issues and then having a product that will no longer work only because of a new C4D version.

I'm surprised Europe hasn't banned software protection.

[chromecity]

think this orphaning of plugins reveals the nasty side of licencing 'protections' like serials, dongles and the like. Not only do these schemes only act to protect the interests of the producer, they actually harm the consumer by adding cumbersome usage issues and then having a product that will no longer work only because of a new C4D version.

I'm surprised Europe hasn't banned software protection.
Hi Ernest,

While I agree about your observation in relation to the 'C4D serial numbers in regards to plug-ins' situation, the implication that dongles and serials in general cause this orphaning isn't 100% accurate. In fact, in the LW situation mentioned above, the reason they don't have a problem when jumping versions is because the plug-in developers can serialize their plug-ins to a particular user's dongle. As long as the dongle keeps working and continues to belong to that user, the logistics issue of going through version changes doesn't cause any problem. However, problems do arise if they attempt to sell either their plug-ins without the core software (to which the dongle belongs) or their core software without the plug-ins. But that's another whole discussion.

I just think that the serial number approach can be a better one than the one which is currently implemented by Maxon. I think they can examine the problems that have arisen - which probably were not fully envisioned when they first implemented the current scheme - and figure out a way to improve upon the current system. The hardest part now is just figuring out a way to do it which doesn't negatively affect all the serial numbers currently in use - and the plug-ins which are tied to those serials.

[Continuumx]

A thread about this part of discussion (serial number serialization) is present with a poll at:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=472444

[jackb602]

Do I need to have an R10 serial # to update my Stormtracer serial #? I'm still on 9.6 here, but I'd like the option to continue using Stormtracer when I do upgrade to R10.

Jack

[Shademaster]

Or run your business in the United States.

I'm not sure I understand the underlying social benefit of strongly discouraging entrepeneurship in your citizens, but there must be a heartfelt reason for for such anti-liberty laws.

In the US I can have a job and also own as many businesses as I want. If there is a conflict-of-interest between the job and other work that is a matter between me and the employer, not the tax code.

I think this orphaning of plugins reveals the nasty side of licencing 'protections' like serials, dongles and the like. Not only do these schemes only act to protect the interests of the producer, they actually harm the consumer by adding cumbersome usage issues and then having a product that will no longer work only because of a new C4D version.

I'm surprised Europe hasn't banned software protection.

Setting up a bussiness in america as an European is not as easy as you might think, first of all it requires you have $100.000 USD on your bankaccount.

Anyway back on topic!

[jackb602]

Setting up a bussiness in america as an European is not as easy as you might think, first of all it requires you have $100.000 USD on your bankaccount.


I guess I didn't get that memo. Anyone else?

[Shademaster]

I guess I didn't get that memo. Anyone else?

When I tried to buy a server in america I had to own an american bussines, that's how I found out...

[Ernest Burden]

Dupe post. Sorry, I don't see how to delete this.

[Ernest Burden]

What about 'consulting' with a US company? Licence your product to a US company (or Chinese or Brazilian or whatever for the country you want to work in/from) for sales. You couldn't collect royalies under the EU laws?

And yes, of course, its an old arguement about protection systems. But I am buying a product and then expected to use a protection that does not in any way protect me, it protects the author. We have all come to expect this and think its normal. My car has a key that I get, not the other way around. Anyway, that's not worth discussing, the consumer lost this one, probably forever. Thanks, warez a*holes.

When we lose use being able to use a valuable plugin because the protection system can't keep up with a new verison of the host, it sucks. I guess that's all there is to be said.

[fretshredder]

Do I need to have an R10 serial # to update my Stormtracer serial #? I'm still on 9.6 here, but I'd like the option to continue using Stormtracer when I do upgrade to R10.

Jack


Yeah, you'll need your permanent R10 serial as the ST serial will be keyed on that.

[fretshredder]

I'm one of those dumb customers that has been burned several times. I bought some Bhodinut and almost all plugins from Paul. I stopped buying expensive plugins (>$75)
when MeshSurgery was disconitued. Too bad for Renato and Cris and some others...


I am in that same boat, unfortunately, and for the same reasons. It's a shame really, but how many times can one get burned before they learn? Oh well Cest la vie

[jackb602]

Yeah, you'll need your permanent R10 serial as the ST serial will be keyed on that.

Thanks for the info. I was afraid of that.

[Sneaker]

Even if I understand the problem as I had this plugin problem too several times I don't understand some of the reactions. I mean you pay for a plugin at the moment you buy it at least with the program version which is up to date then.

If the company decides to discontinue the product or if the "shop" closes, how can you say that you fint that unacceptable? I mean that's normal business. If I close my shop then this is it. We don`t have to like it but that's all.

Just my 2 cents.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that and Paul has all my sympathy. He was always helpful and kind to give extras for free. It is just that I decided to carefully think about what I really need. That changed from collecting plugins or supporting developers.
You get used to a workflow. It is just an extra step to export and use the file in an old Cinema Version to render Storm. Oh, I forgot, you can't export MorGraph or TP, so you need to recreate the file, too bad.

Don't compare hardware and shops with software. It is something totally different.
When I can't use my old tires or car radio with my new car I can sell them.
That won't work with pieces of software bound to a serial.
In that case it means you don't buy software, as you don't own it, you rent if for
a not specified time. Kind like a battery that runs out but you don't know when.
And no one would buy rund out batteries ;)

Anyway we're stuck as long as the developers don't change their mind.

-Michael

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