CGTalk - Animation short: *Nodebased project*

anticz

03-01-2003, 09:51 AM

Very well done. Technically it's a well executed piece of work. Two comments I have are trim down the lead and credits. They're almost twice the length of the actual work. I really don't want to see 10 seconds of black in the lead if I spend the time to down load it (I don't want to see that much black even if I've got a copy on DVD). Second, next time out of the gate try something a little more original. I liked this work but I couldn't help but compare this to Cris Cunninghams Bjork video the entire time I watched it, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to compete with something like that. This is a really strong piece of work but the similarity was distracting. Hope this didn't sound arrogant or egotistical. Very good stuff!!!!!

Powell

03-01-2003, 10:27 AM

anticz..

your right...credtis are too long, but that can be fixed.
As far as orriginality...I intentionally went for that Chris Cunningham'ish look. I wanted to do something that was technically challenging in as many aspects of 3D as possible....I figured that look/style would work well.
I appreciate the comments....keep em comin!:thumbsup:

Lorecanth

03-01-2003, 10:49 AM

Impossible maybe but its damn good competition. Also in regards to Chris Cunninghams video while totally amazing work, he doesn't exactly have a copyright on the whiterobot/white room design look at starwars. Also I think its important to note that Cunningham had a whole team of people on his. Powell did this by himself .

aenema

03-01-2003, 10:51 AM

heh, i dont know why people havnt responded to this much. Except for the stretched out credits session, this is great. great modeling, animation, and rendering! i havnt seen the Bjork video, so I really can't compare this to it :) awesome job :thumbsup:

Lorecanth

03-01-2003, 08:03 PM

Little bit suprised that this hasn't gotten more coverage Personally I haven't seen that many Lightwave radiosity rendered shorts. Also has anyone seen a similar timelapse character animation shot ? Think it might be a first.

Kamul

03-01-2003, 09:54 PM

:bounce: thats great stuff really
I dont understand why there arent more comments but it's great anyway

Ultragames

03-01-2003, 11:16 PM

Stunning work. More content and less credits would have been nice. Remember, if we want to actualy read the credits, we can always just pause it. Love the music. I dont think i've ever seen a time laps piece in all the videos ive viewed, gj!

That Adrian Guy

03-01-2003, 11:48 PM

The pictures are great, but the nodebase server is hurting pretty bad right now.

Judging by the pics though, these are excellent

Powell

03-01-2003, 11:49 PM

Ive always been facinated by the look and motion of timelapse photography. This was my first shot at doing it in 3D and i think it worked fairly well. Although...animating 30,000 frames x2 for the shot was not much fun....:annoyed:
My next project is also going to be a timelapse shot, but with much more detailed and defined motion.

Pants01

03-01-2003, 11:59 PM

Yay, I finally got to see your movie, and I can say the wait was worth it. Have you given a copy to vfs for festival submission?

Joser

03-02-2003, 12:55 AM

Hi Brett

I can download your movie yet...but after see your proyect grow up during one year in class, and two months of work together in the scolarship program of the school.I,m sure is !!AWESOME!! piece of work man!!

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I,m so happy to see your work here

Jose

Powell

03-02-2003, 02:13 AM

Ive added a second download mirror on my webpage to view my movie. Im posting the link here as well. Sorry about the slow speeds....

Download mirror (http://www.vfs.com/~brettkys)

g0tenks0

03-02-2003, 02:31 AM

truely amazing !!! :beer:

Theta-Dot

03-02-2003, 02:32 AM

That kicks ass. I love the audio too.

=ThetaDot=

Astral

03-02-2003, 02:41 AM

The Bjork video stole the idea anyway. Plenty of that style of white/black robot fixing a female robot pictures are around the web. Many dated before the Bjork video. Even more in science fiction. Nothing wrong with that

Great piece of work. You did a exceptional job and the choice of audio is top notch.

:thumbsup:

Grosserfrosch

03-02-2003, 02:44 AM

I know what you are talking about with the similarity to Cunningham and I think this is an excellent example of that style.

::cobes::

03-02-2003, 03:51 AM

Brett, you're my hero. :buttrock:

gary hsu

03-02-2003, 03:56 AM

Is this the famous elusive reel that no one got to see last term??
heheh, I was so looking forward to this reel. I have downloaded it, but couldn't open it, guess I need to update my software, but I believe it's going to be amazing:wip: :wip:

tuco

03-02-2003, 04:39 AM

Great Job Brett I was hopeing I would be able to see the finnal results. All the hard work has paid off. :beer:

facial

03-02-2003, 06:54 AM

amazing, Keep post more:applause:

Stooge

03-02-2003, 06:58 AM

:eek: ..................need i say more?

Shiu Cheung
3d34

Ech0

03-02-2003, 07:12 AM

and how hard was it importing to maya or from maya to lightwave i use 3d studio and im trying to model in 3d studio render in light wave or maya

=kz=

03-02-2003, 07:19 AM

Hey Brett,

Amazing work man! Been waiting to see your reel for sometime now. Glad you posted it on here. Loved the timelapse stuff really great! How exactly did you do it? Anyway man thanks for sharing, great work!
:thumbsup:

Keswick

loocas

03-02-2003, 11:05 AM

Well, can't say anything else than AWESOME! I like such design style! :buttrock:

smann

03-02-2003, 01:32 PM

http://www.scifi.com/exposure/frameup/allisfull.html

http://www.director-file.com/cunningham/521.html

I forget the quote exactly, but it was something like mimicry is the highest form of flatery.

I think what you've done here is really an excellent job.

but it is difficult to give it a fair viewing when some of the design elements and even some shots look like direct lifts. (falling out of focus embers)

The parts where you've started doing something different are were you're showing some of your talent, "time lapse" And of course doing this by yourself and with limited comparible resources is of course excellent show of your work.

So with that said, you are going to get comments comparing what you've done to cunninghams video, which Im sure you expected, Which I why Im not suprised there isn't anything in the credits ginving nod to him, even "based on an idea by etc.etc." or at least in the orignal posting. Without that it makes it really difficult to not be biased against it, because of the similarity.

IT is really excellent work though, really nice job.

Ryder

03-02-2003, 02:35 PM

so björk! .. hehe

Matt

03-02-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by anticz
I couldn't help but compare this to Cris Cunninghams Bjork video the entire time I watched it

Possibly because it's theme and design are exactly the same... IE, unoriginal. no offense to the creator of this whole thing. (Although I'm sure it will be recieved in offense.) When speaking to a senior animator from Pixar, he told me one important piece of advice.

"If you're next door, forget about it. If you're down the street, forget about it. If you're in the next county, forget about it. If you're in the next country forget about it. You've got to be in a complete other hemisphere to even be blinked at, and completely out of this world to be considered."

Originality is the creator and destroyer of careers.

JDex

03-02-2003, 04:18 PM

Well, the pics look beautiful, but it isn't downloading at an acceptable rate... I started downloading it at 8:30PM (EST) and I haven't even gotten through the opening credits (which I understand are quite long)... and I have a superfast broadband connection.

Trim this thing appropriately and put it back up so that the world can see it, maybe consider a new host too...

Lukashi

03-02-2003, 04:26 PM

Hey great animation, the only thing i would do is shorten that damm opening credit! 30 secs of nothing, anyways besides that it was really nice and i enjoyed it :) worth the wait :thumbsup:

Astral

03-02-2003, 06:07 PM

"If you're next door, forget about it. If you're down the street, forget about it. If you're in the next county, forget about it. If you're in the next country forget about it. You've got to be in a complete other hemisphere to even be blinked at, and completely out of this world to be considered."

Give me a break

I have seen first hand people hired on what most of us would consider pure junk and a rip-off. If you can show that you understand the tool's, principles, and can get the job done then you have a good shot.

What a joke

spr0g

03-02-2003, 08:22 PM

only just downloaded this...
all I can say is.... b00tiful work! there isn't anything I dont like about this.

Mahlikus

03-02-2003, 08:28 PM

This it amazing work, Bravo! I'd like to let you know that your also personally responsible for making me addicted to múm..Thanks!:thumbsup:

skilled v²

03-02-2003, 08:32 PM

im still downloading it, pain in the ass huge file :D haha j/k man

this was amazing i loved it great job :applause: :thumbsup: :beer:

skilled v²

03-02-2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Matt
Possibly because it's theme and design are exactly the same... IE, unoriginal. no offense to the creator of this whole thing. (Although I'm sure it will be recieved in offense.) When speaking to a senior animator from Pixar, he told me one important piece of advice.

"If you're next door, forget about it. If you're down the street, forget about it. If you're in the next county, forget about it. If you're in the next country forget about it. You've got to be in a complete other hemisphere to even be blinked at, and completely out of this world to be considered."

Originality is the creator and destroyer of careers.

are u joking me man, get the hell out of here, w/e man dont listen to this guy :shame: :annoyed: :mad:

spr0g

03-02-2003, 08:40 PM

surely people will be hiring you becuase you have what they look for... even if it isn't the most original thing in the world?

and even so... it also depends on what you wanna get into?

gary hsu

03-02-2003, 08:45 PM

heheh, I really would like to know which pixar sinior animator said that, it's funny.

Lorecanth

03-02-2003, 09:37 PM

Just out of curiosity. I'd like to hear about what mechanical robot styles are left. If one went post apoc you'd get reminded of mad max. If one went asimovian you'd get bicentennial man thrown at you.
What I found interesting about Powells piece was he took a look and followed in its footsteps. How is this any different than painting styles of old. In response to your pixar quote I've got one of my own.

"Good artists create, Great Artists Steal"

Sorry I'll take Piccasso over Pixar.

Pants01

03-02-2003, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Matt
"If you're next door, forget about it. If you're down the street, forget about it. If you're in the next county, forget about it. If you're in the next country forget about it. You've got to be in a complete other hemisphere to even be blinked at, and completely out of this world to be considered."

Yeah, I've heard something similar. But it only really matters if the person does a bad job diplicating it. The short still shows his skill, I don't know how well it would do in festivals though...

Powell

03-02-2003, 10:18 PM

When I first decided to do this project, I knew that i would take a lot of shite from people comparing it to Chris Cunninghams work because soooo many people saw and liked his video. But, I went with the idea anyways, not because i wanted to try and outdo or top Chris Cunninghams work, but rather...I wanted a piece for my demo reel that could show my skills as a 3D artist. I didnt make this movie to show at festivals and get acclaimed as a great director...I did it to try and get work in the 3D/visual Effects field.

All the people who post and email me telling me how it looks like the bjork video is just fine...i can deal with that. But, it would be nice to see some comments about the actual 3D/compositing work that was done...isnt that what this forum is all about?? thanks to those who have posted those types of comments/critiques...i really do appreciate them!
who ever posted that Pixar info....it gave me a good laugh anyway.:cool:

I was thinking about posting some stills of wireframes, ect. here. anyone interested in that???

DAREONER

03-03-2003, 12:12 AM

great picture and viva shake

anticz

03-03-2003, 12:46 AM

My comments concerning the similarity to the bjork video had very little to do with the asthetic look of black and white robots. Yes, I understand that it's been done to death in illustrations and media way before the Bjork video. But if you take a look at the bjork video and then see this it's borderline plagerism. I do agree, this is STUNNING work in it's own right. There were also some things I found quite original (or rather, quite unlike what Chris Cunningham did) like the time lapse sequence. I really liked that. Unfortuneately many of the shot's leading up to that sequence were so similar to the bjork video it was just plain distracting. I also understand that you're intent was to look very similar to the bjork video. THat's what you set out to do and you acomplished it. What I'm saying is, the shots you pulled directly out of the video weren't nearly as sucessful as the one's that you didn't, like the time lapse sequence for instance. Again, Great work.

Nlafakis

03-03-2003, 01:33 AM

Powell: I personally skipped most of the comments here because I didn't like what I was reading (for the most part). I really think that you have done a tremendous job with this piece. It reflects that you have spent a lor of time with the animation, compositing, and effects. I think that the compositing looks great, and I have yet to find a flaw with it. The animation is good, but at somepoints not as robotic in movement as it could be. I think that the lighting and secene are a perfect fit for the peice. I also disagree with the "credits" comment. The only thing I would say is maybe have the music play a bit sooner, because the way the credits roll with the music really sets the tone for the animation.

Once again, great job, and I hope to see more work from you.

gary hsu

03-03-2003, 03:31 AM

Hey Brett

I saw it, and I love it. so much emotions when the male robot caressed the females cheek. I like all the subtle animation you have in there. the timelapse sequence is just amazing, I wish I know how to do that so I can make my animation better, heheh. In the beginning where the male robot approached the female robot, I thought the animation is kinda floaty, but I don't know if you did that on purpose or what. It must have taken a lot of work and rendering time to have a piece as professional looking as this, congrets on a job well done

gary

lildragon

03-03-2003, 09:38 AM

What can I say, but awesome job :thumbsup: the only things I agree with are what Anticz mentioned in his post, but other than that, well deserved!

You have received the CGtalk choice award .Please feel free to display this image anywhere you like! Very good work.

upon receiving this award, it guarantees you a spot in the cgtalk gallery hall of fame (http://gallery.cgtalk.com) - which you are now placed

http://www.cgtalk.com/plug_award/cgtalk_award_mar03_2.jpg

P.S. Please email me @ tito@cgnetworks.com for the award .psd file

salud

ytrabbit

03-03-2003, 12:42 PM

Absolutely stunning...

gimik

03-03-2003, 11:20 PM

first of all, technically speaking this is a good piece of work. it obviously took a lot of time and skill to prepare and that deserves recognition.

however, i think the comments made by smann and anticz are right on here.. when you mimic a piece of art, for whatever motive, you desaturate, blur, and limit the extents of your own talents--whatever they might be. if you were trying to do work to illustrate your technical skill/knowledge, it would've been much more effective to outright clone something and acknowledge the original work. when you underplay the significance of your "inspiration," it makes it appear as though you'd rather people think it was your artistic touch that generated the mood in the animation, when really it's clear to anyone who's actually seen the bjork video that you pretty much lifted most of the special ingredients that make it cool.

the white androids are one thing--nobody is saying you're a plagiarist if you model a white robot. but starting from the first frame, most of your shots are direct recreations. even the music you picked seems like a pretty obvious attempt to generate the mood in the bjork video.

any feedback you get on this thing--positive or negative--won't be very helpful because most of it will be affected by those ingredients that you recreated from the cunningham video whether people are aware of them or not.

Lorecanth

03-04-2003, 09:45 AM

Ok gentlemen time for a little history lesson. The robotic white look and sterile feeling that you guys are talking about can first be attributed to as far as I can remember thx-1138. If you look at that movie and its enviorments you can clearly see where Cunningham "lifted" his ideas and inspirations for the themes of his music video.

What it really comes down to is what do you consider original ? I look at this piece and see a reinterpretation. Not of a work done by Cunningham, but of the same themes and emotions that cunningham tried to evoke. I personally like seeing different artists takes on on the same subject, thats all this is.

Astral

03-04-2003, 10:12 AM

Actually Isaac Asimov the science fiction writer pretty much wrote the bjork video including white and black frame for frame in the 1970s. If you want to get "anal" about it

Lorecanth

03-04-2003, 10:26 AM

lol actually I completly agree with you I was only speaking of a filmic reference. If you want to get really anal pretty much anything with robots was conceived before 1980. Look at Joe Haldeman or frank Herberts stuff in regards to intelleigent machine design. But you're right Asimov was the man who invented the concept of what we now think of as an android or robot.

Aura

03-04-2003, 03:05 PM

WELL WELL DONE~~~:applause:

XTBAD

03-04-2003, 03:15 PM

I love the fast paced construction segment in this animation. The whole thing looks surreal but the expressions on the faces of the robots give it a kind of realistic quality. The ending is the best i think though. Her eyes open and I got a chill down my back. A robot seeking companionship decides to construct a mate. That story was encompassed really well in this animation.

noktUp

03-04-2003, 10:27 PM

The fast foreward part of the clip kicks major pixel ass!!!
That Totaly surpassed any expectations i had about your "student" werk. I use quotes cause it really is impressive. I like how you hid the imperfections in the animation by breaking it into clips, i bet it made anim time flow like butter! Very nice werk!!!

gimik

03-04-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Lorecanth

What it really comes down to is what do you consider original ? I look at this piece and see a reinterpretation. Not of a work done by Cunningham, but of the same themes and emotions that cunningham tried to evoke. I personally like seeing different artists takes on on the same subject, thats all this is.

have you seen the bjork video? i thought i was watching a shot-by-shot recreation when the animation started playing. (which would've been perfectly fine if the video was credited.)

artists take on similar subjects all the time.. few choose to do it with the same intention, context, and imagery, however, as most of them realize it's not as worthwhile.

still a thumbs up for the work that went into this thing.

markdc

03-04-2003, 11:25 PM

Tastes like bjork...

Blair

03-05-2003, 12:12 AM

Awesome stuff, you've achieved what you wanted to so what more can I say.

Lorecanth

03-05-2003, 12:48 AM

What I find still amazing is your inistence on "All is full of Love" as being original, but thats a side point. Yes I have seen the bjork video many times. And one thing that everyone here neglects to mention is that it's 95 % or more real. With a lot of the "not real" parts being just tracked in compositing.

As far as the intention of the video, I believe thats just where you and I disagree. I get two different messages out of the video. Here's an excerpt from what was intended by cunningham for the bjork video.

"When I first heard the track I wrote down the words; 'sexual,' 'milk,' 'white porcelain,' 'surgery,'" recalls Chris.

If anyone can tell me they got that feeling from powells piece well. I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

Also just a little fact for all of you the "All is Full of Love" video ran into costing "six figures". I'll then put the question to Powell. Excluding tuition, what did you spend on this?

BnE

03-05-2003, 02:22 AM

i love the movie so poetic... great render.

gimik

03-05-2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Lorecanth
What I find still amazing is your inistence on "All is full of Love" as being original, but thats a side point. <snip>

i'm not talking about the concepts here.. everyone can agree that androids and robotics are nothing new. sparks flying are nothing new.. milk is nothing new.. however, you have to give some credit to the aesthetic of the video--the combination of all the parts of the video (conceptually, visually, and emotionally) give it a sum that is at least marginally original.

"and one thing that everyone here neglects to mention is that it's 95 % or more real. <snip>"

what does this have to do with anything? if i recreate the mona lisa in watercolor it's still inspired and motivated by the mona lisa and it's my responsibility to accept and be open with that if it's the case.

"When I first heard the track I wrote down the words; 'sexual,' 'milk,' 'white porcelain,' 'surgery,'" recalls Chris. If anyone can tell me they got that feeling from powells piece well. I guess you're entitled to your opinion.<snip>

well firstly i think cunningham was referring more to the concepts of imagery there and not any overall impression he was gunning for. regardless though, i think most people agree that there are some uncanny similarities between the moods of each work. the 'robot companionship' theme may not be original to either of them, but every time i watch the intro shot slowly pan from darkness over wirey mechanics into light and an in-construction white android with a human face; or the slow shots of sparks falling during the construction--or the closeup on the very-similarly-engineered android's eyes opening as it is brought to life--i can't help but make the connection.. i haven't even really been given a choice.

yeah everyone's got an impression and opinion, i just think powell would've been much better served if he had invested more of his time into the things that make the animation "his."

gary hsu

03-06-2003, 03:01 AM

heheh, what are you guys talking about?? I thought the animation is "his"........hmm, oh, hold on, I think I set a keyframe fro him a few terms ago, oh, wait, that's another person.........yeah, the animation is his, I am pretty sure. Common guys, I don't realy care about what you guys think, but I certainly don't want to open my email and start reading those negative drama every day, it makes me depressed. I think it is not unreasonable to ask you guys to take whatever issues you have in private.......there's a pvt message function, I just found out a few days ago, it's very useful, and I think in this case, suits perfectly for those who have whatever problems with this thread..I kinda regret posting whatever message in this thread cause for a few days already, I have been getting those negative messages............Hey, Enough is Enough, stop it!!!!!
by the way, Powell, I don't care about whether is original or not, animation wise, I love it

jchoi

03-06-2003, 05:43 AM

DAMN!!!

What you been eating man??

It's such an awesome work.

I especially love the shot where the male robot fixes the female one in fast motion. (am I right? =P ) Well, this is amazing.

Yeah, VFS rocks!!

Gino C.
class 36.

skubydew

03-07-2003, 04:14 PM

Well it's a direct and intentional ripoff thats for sure, the concept, design and individual shots and colors are all copied, and you should have put Chris Cunninghams name in the credits.

I understand your later comments about doing it to get a job, doing it for your reel (ie not striving for originality) but that leads you to a bigger problem I think. Since it is not even close to as good as the original in terms of quality (sorry its a good job but it's not close) your not only setting up a direct comparison to the original but your doing it with inferior work.

The modeling isn't as life like, rendering isn't as crisp, and most importantly the original evokes intense emotions from it's viewers mainly because you truely believe the robots are alive and love each other and the reason I think you failed at re-creating this is mainly due to your animation, which while good, didn't quite make the same amazing strides as the original.

Sorry to be so harsh but the reason for that is because I have the original, identical and superior to compare it to. -derek

ps. As far as Chris Cunningham being inspired by other artists for his piece, of coarse he was heavily inspired, but he did not directly copy each and every ingredient from another artist, no sir.

dbach

03-09-2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by gimik
[B]have you seen the bjork video? i thought i was watching a shot-by-shot recreation when the animation started playing. (which would've been perfectly fine if the video was credited.)

This is fine but you will eventually have to hit a line and deside what is to be credited or not. I doubt Cunningham credited whatever it was that inspired him to do what he did, although he did as all artists do, take reference from other people.

Originally posted by skubydew
ps. As far as Chris Cunningham being inspired by other artists for his piece, of coarse he was heavily inspired, but he did not directly copy each and every ingredient from another artist, no sir.

As for copying each and every ingredient from another artist I don't hear anyone saying that this IS the Cunningham video so that means that there must be some original content in it and I think that this artist deserves to be recognized for that content. Dont you?

Good work Brett!

As for comments on your work I agree with Gary, I think that the animation where the male robot swings up is a little floaty.

Out,
Don

skubydew

03-13-2003, 10:48 PM

>>As for copying each and every ingredient from another artist I don't hear anyone saying that this IS the Cunningham video so that means that there must be some original content in it and I think that this artist deserves to be recognized for that content. Dont you?<<

No it is outright plagiarism! -Derek

cornel

03-13-2003, 11:21 PM

one more: Love the music.

allready counted the "awesome" posts ? than count this one, too.

I liked cunningham style in his work and I just love yours.
keep on, and dont care about time lastet on that 30.000 radiosity rendered frames, each one is a great shot for his own.

AT FIRST there must be someone who has to try reaching this perfect renderings. !!

dbach

03-16-2003, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by skubydew
>>As for copying each and every ingredient from another artist I don't hear anyone saying that this IS the Cunningham video so that means that there must be some original content in it and I think that this artist deserves to be recognized for that content. Dont you?<<

No it is outright plagiarism! -Derek

So you think that the time lapse sequence (please note that I am refering to the sequence, not the style), even though there wasn't anything like it in the Cunningham video, shouldn't be recognized simply because it is mixed in with sequences that are reproductions of Cunningham's work? I am sorry but I will have to respectfully disagree.

I do however believe that in this case Cunningham should be credited.

Out,
Don

skubydew

03-19-2003, 12:37 AM

Yeah it reminds me of my slacking days in grade school where instead of actually doing my book report I would instead copy something word for word from Encarta and then change around some wording and maybe throw in a new paragraph or two of my own in a pathetic attempt to make it not so blatant... I actually got quite good at it!

But I've already made any point that I was trying to make by now, I see that many of you feel strongly about defending this as legitimant work and I completely and adimantly disagree!

:beer: